Giving developers a choice = developers not implementing it. Ninty getting the hardcore back my ass....
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Wii U will not have system-wide achievements
- Thread starter ULTROS!
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Canis lupus
Member
Trophies/achievements really add to the replayability of a game. In the past I would just finish the game and be done with it, now I explore and do more stuff.
That is kind of an example of where it's good to use them: it adds a bit more value to something that shallow. Which is also why I hate stuff like that forced for every game: some games are a perfect fit, but some really aren't. It's why I hate that I can't disable trophy notifications on PSN (or that NO ONE seems to want to let me disable just trophy/achievement notifications), it's great for games like Geometry Wars, generally fine in stuff like Uncharted or Gears of War, and repugnant in Flower which is more of an EXPERIENCE. Nevermind how it's become more and more common for games to throw a million free achievements near the start of a game before you really do anything, that actually IS kind of offensive, as if they need to give me gold stickers just for remembering to start the game.
Who's to say you wont be able to see their progress somehow? Seriously some of you need to calm down and stop making this a big deal until you know what's in store for us when it comes to checking out progress.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Those boxes are not checked then.
I guess Steam lost a lot of hardcores once they realized that there was no meta-achievement system in place and that it wasn't mandatory for games...
Haunted
Member
That's a strawman, ease of implementation makes these completely different situations.
If it was as easy to get every game running in 1080p as it is to include achievements (if the system is in place from the OS side) with no adverse side effects to how the game runs (something that's the case for achievements, but not your resolution example), then yes, I as a consumer would want that to be mandatory as well.
Dion Blaster
Member
I wish Nintendo would make it mandatory to NOT include achievements. This shit is getting ridiculous.
Stabby McSter
Member
I really liked achievements earlier this gen, but I kinda stopped caring. D:
Yes because achievements were a huge reason why people bought their HD systems in the first place right?
SolidSnakex
Member
Well, we know that it's possible to see accomplishment progress per game. Nintendo has stated this in their little game descriptions. That'll at least apply to NSMBU, Nintendoland and SiNG. I'm pretty sure that it's a Miiverse feature.
It is still not an apple to apple comparison. There is something tangible that the game can gain by not running at 1080p. In this case the game does not become better in any way by not having trophies. There is no perceived advantage from any angle. Why not make it mandatory?
Yup. There is no excuse for this other than Nintendo's incompetence.
Care to expand a bit? I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean Wii or Wii U?
I have friends who are real trophy hunters, and won't put a game down until they get every trophy. May be silly to some, but it is a real selling point for many gamers. These aren't the kind of players that are going to buy a new $350 system to play Black Ops II on just so they can have FEWER features and near-identical graphics.
In a world where the games industry is facing so much uncertainty, Nintendo omits many popular features found on other platforms such as achievements, account-based game/app linking (as opposed to hardware-linked which is absurd if not insulting), bluetooth mics, and we'll still learning about what else it probably doesn't have or botched the execution of.
Bring your A game Nintendo... because the future is uncertain right now. I just have to shake my head.
In a world where the games industry is facing so much uncertainty, Nintendo omits many popular features found on other platforms such as achievements, account-based game/app linking (as opposed to hardware-linked which is absurd if not insulting), bluetooth mics, and we'll still learning about what else it probably doesn't have or botched the execution of.
Bring your A game Nintendo... because the future is uncertain right now. I just have to shake my head.
Nope. Wrong. You aren't a real gamer unless the game alone compels you to explore and do more stuff. If you are so weak-willed that an aggregate style scoring system attracts you, you do not deserve to game.
Revel in my implacable principles.
Aquamarine
Member
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/474371
A good satire of this modern hysteria around achievements.
Because a system like achievements is the means of doing that. What this tells me is that there are not tools in place for me to do what I want on the WiiU itself, and even if developers did implement it (they won't), I would have to go in game to find such information.
Don't forget "what do you MEAN this game doesn't have a Platinum trophy??! I was REALLY looking forward to this game but I'M NOT BUYING IT NOW!"
Haunted
Member
See, now this (don't know anything about this feature) does look like the Wii U would handle this similarly to Steam.
If there's a Wii U equivalent to Steam Achievements in these accomplishments and you can check on them from outside the game as well as compare them to other users, that does sound very similar to Steam. I think I need some clarification on this.
I edited the post as I'm not sure about the situation anymore (see above).
I was under the impression Jackson's post meant that there's no way to check and compare your achievements (Nintendo calls them accomplishments?) from outside the game.
If PS4/720 hardware rumors are even close to the truth than getting a game running at 1080p 30 FPS (at least) and looking better than today's console games will be really easy. REALLY easy. Almost as easy as including achievements.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Its a huge reason why the 360 enjoyed such a huge attach rate early on. Seeing what everyone was playing and comparing achievements was a revolution on the online social aspect of gaming, lets not play around with history.
I like achievements, they result in me spending a little more time with a game and with the cleverly implemented ones, result in me trying new playstyles and provide a carrot on a stick just juicy enough to warrant going for 100% completion. A boon for devs not wanting their titles traded in after launch weekend.
The stupid comprehensive "need 100% of random drops" or "be in top 0.1% of all online players" style achievements need to be outlawed or whatever though.
RobbieNick
Junior Member
I'm glad. Now I don't have to deal with a bunch of arbitrary bullshit that has no effect on the actual game itself.
I can't tell if you are being facetious.
I didn't know they completely removed Miiverse already. I'm sorry, carry on.
If something's left up to the developer, it's not going to happen. Sony can sing a song (or 12) about that. None of the optional features they've introduced ever took off.
I kind of don't understand some people who say Achievements/Trophies should go away. People play games, they enjoy them for reasons you don't understand and that's why they should go away? They're completely optional for anyone who doesn't like them and people who get great enjoyment out of collecting them should be allowed to do so.
I kind of don't understand some people who say Achievements/Trophies should go away. People play games, they enjoy them for reasons you don't understand and that's why they should go away? They're completely optional for anyone who doesn't like them and people who get great enjoyment out of collecting them should be allowed to do so.
The PS3 never has let you disable notifications within a game (likely a flaw with how they're implemented, given the Vita allows them to be shut off), and you don't see stuff like Kid Icarus, FFXII, or Xenoblade's implementations often on those consoles. I actually have been starting to suspect it's DISCOURAGED given how we had games like ME1 and Crackdown reward you, then ME2 scaled that back with ME3 seemingly dumping them entirely, and I can't think of any other games that gave you in-game rewards for them. So not only is there the "you're compromising a game that's a pure experience!" angle, you ALSO seem to be setting the One Standard that everyone follows rather than allowing everyone to try their own twists and takes, or to not bother at all because it doesn't suit their design goals.
Cross game chat was also brought up as a standard feature, and I think that highlights the difference: Cross game chat isn't really something that compromises design except in a very few rare multiplayer cases (Chromehounds notably it seems), it's basically just putting into the Wii the ability to talk with other people similar to talking on the phone while doing something. Doesn't compromise design, isn't really something a developer needs to worry about if handled correctly, and thus is good to mandate.
What was stopping you before?
Haunted
Member
I think you're wrong.
There's always tradeoffs with increasing visual fidelity (or framerate) when you're dealing with hardware that has a definitive power ceiling.
If it has no effect then surely you can ignore it and let achievement hunters have their fun.
"Hardcore gamers". The real hardcore are the ones who do things above and beyond without actually having to be told what to do.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Shouldn't the miiverse pretty much act like the "gathers player's data of accomplishments" thing? The source itself is GAF and there's a hint that the miiverse will be the "tracker" function.
I don't understand these arguments. One can agree with your sentiment (in fact, I do) yet the most reasonable conclusion is not the one Nintendo reached. Why is your position more rational than having achievements standardized and then having the option of turning them off (both in notification and display)? Achievements are games unto themselves for many people; their addicting properties are similar to that of games themselves. It's like calling someone a no-life nerd on GAF... all while you are ON GAF.
I have no idea what the Miiverse has anything to do with what I'm talking about, unless you are vastly overestimating its capabilities.
Ahh yes, I see we've gotten to the point of the thread now where we start telling people how they should have fun. If people have fun completing achievements/trophies and want to buy more games just to do that, more power to them. It's their money and they can spend it however they want to.
Haunted
Member
That's what I would like to know. How is it six days from launch and we don't have definitive answers on this?
That said, the bolded bit kinda directly contradicts what Jackson said in his post.
SolidSnakex
Member
Here are the descriptions from Nintendo
NSMBU:
SiNG
So, it doesn't sound too bad. It's just a matter of whether or not other devs will use the same accomplishment system.
Soodanim
Member
I like that achievements often add replayability through additional challenges, but I stopped caring about PS3 trophies a while back. I couldn't care less that there isn't a system-wide achievement system on the Wii U, that's really not what I'm buying it for. In fact, it didn't even cross my mind when considering it.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Yeah, even though there's no "gamescore" if the data is collected in miiverse and is broadcasted then it still functions pretty much like one.
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