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[blame space]

Well, if we're going to equate the actions of a helo crew to the actions of an entire country, why not?

indeed. "Why not?"

 

[Falch]

They showed some of the footage in a dutch political talkshow, so media are definitely picking this up. We'll see what the papers make of it tomorrow.

 

[WanderingWind]

First of all, those photographers could have been any civilian, not people who signed up for a dangerous job. Since when is walking together in a group now considered aiming and firing a weapon? Isnt the US military supposed to be the best? So why the fuck can shit like this happen? And why doesnt firing only when fired upon make sense? The american army has the best technology in the world, they should be able to know when someone is about to shoot at them. These soldiers signed up knowing they would be in danger. They have the most powerful weapons on earth. It should be their duty to make sure 100% that the people they are about to kill are enemies, taking as much time as needed.

Completely irresponsible behavior from the people in power

This is simply the most ignorant rant posted as of yet. You may want to calm down a bit before picking apart your own "argument" here. I'll assume you're really smarter than this.

 

[enzo_gt]

Oh my god, now that I looked at the last and second last photos that Noor-Eldeen took, this is just more horrifying.

 

[TOM f'N CRUISE]

i dont even know if im gonna watch this.............maybe later.

 

[ColonelColon]

Could anyone defending this explain why the US Army was ever deployed to Iraq? Do you even know?

 

[The Faceless Master]

1. Shoot first
2. Ask questions later
3. Hide the evidence when you realize you fucked up

#3 is the one i have a problem with

 

[avatar299]

We murder several tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians using professionally trained combatants. We torture innocents. The enemy murders a few thousand U.S civilians using amateurs and tortures innocents. Yea, we are far far better.

by strapping bombs to themselves, innocent civilians, children, etc etc. Fighting in the streets using the community around them like a human shield, thus many of the Iraqi civilians deaths. Yeah we are still better than them

 

[blame space]

Could anyone defending this explain why the US Army was ever deployed to Iraq? Do you even know?

to get the terrorists hiding in Afghanistan funded by Saudi Arabia.

Duh.

 

[Plinko]

i realize this, but why fox news decided to break this info under "videogame killings" feels sensationalist

Julian Assange of WikiLeaks released the video at the National Press Club in Washington. He described the U.S. troops as callous and the shootings as "another day at the office."

"The behavior of the pilots is like they're playing a video game," said Assange. "It's like they want to get high-scores in that computer game."

They're quoting the person from WikiLeaks.

 

[BravoSuperStar]

War. What is it good for?

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

http://www.foxnews.com/

Maybe it was the Fox Nation link.

Thanks to everyone who replied.

#3 is the one i have a problem with

Seems like a common occurance. Remember Pat Tilman's cover up?

 

[Dabookerman]

Some of you people act like your fucking Gandhi.

Easy now. Not all of us are as trigger happy as you.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

holy fuck. Jesus christ.

As an American, let me extend my sincere apology for my entire country (YES I SPEAK FOR ALL OF US!).

What an embarrassment. A war we shouldn't have fought, with Americans completely embarrassing our entire country with their misbehavior. Boy I miss Bush /sarcasm

It's funny though how all the good things we do in Iraq never make the news.

I'm a Corpsman (Navy medic) and have served two tours in Iraq with the Marines. Do you know how many insurgents I have saved from bleeding out?

These insurgents open fire/RPG'd our convoy and my Marines lit them up. The ones that are not killed initially, I treat their wounds, whether it's minor or severe.

Because according to the Geneva Convention, as a medical personnel, I have to treat my fellow soldier or an enemy casualty with the same care regardless.

Or how about treating Iraqi civilians after they got hit by an insurgent IED? Does this make the news?

Of course not. Only the terrible incidents that paint our military like we're all some cold-blooded, redneck patritotic fucktards.

 

[KHarvey16]

Could anyone defending this explain why the US Army was ever deployed to Iraq? Do you even know?

Irrelevant to this particular issue. Would a justifiable war excuse what some are trying to paint as homicide?

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Turned the video off after a minute. Couldn't take that.

Just, what the hell.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Seems like a common occurance. Remember Pat Tilman's cover up?

yep.

i watched the video, and it looked like everything was done appropriately, they looked like they had guns and an rpg.

i find the coverup after they were found to be mistaken to be despicable.

 

[mugurumakensei]

Of course a military exists for defensive and offensive capabilities. Your argument and logic is continually digressing to different topics, so this is the last time I'm going to bother to respond to your illogical assumptions.

No, your assumption is that military should take unnecessary offenses.

1) There was plenty of time to see that the group was not going on an offense.
2) If the soldiers were still uncertain, they could have waited for the soldiers to assume a stance that would indicate firing. The soldiers didn't.
3) Army intel was so good that the reuters reporters were called insurgents even after the fact until the pentagon revised the story.
4) The revised story does not match the video.

So which of these gives you faith that the "Shoot first. Ask questions later" mentality is correct? That is what makes you think this was still kosher?

 

[WanderingWind]

Seems like a common occurance. Remember Pat Tilman's cover up?

..and it's still mind-boggling that this is SOP. They create bogeymen out of the media, then force that to become a reality by hiding things like this from the public. The same with the Bush ban on photographing the coffins coming back from overseas.

What the hell is the purpose of hiding information in an era where everybody has access to to it eventually any way? Not to mention, in a year or so, as horrific as this video is, nobody will talk about it. The internet has created a informational shelf-life that is shorter than goddamn milk. Hiding or covering up things in this day and age is counterproductive and never, ever fucking works right.

It's funny though how all the good things we do in Iraq never make the news.

I'm a Corpsman (Navy medic) and have served two tours in Iraq with the Marines. Do you know how many insurgents I have saved from bleeding out?

These insurgents open fire/RPG'd our convoy and my Marines lit them up. The ones that are not killed initially, I treat their wounds, whether it's minor or severe.

Because according to the Geneva Convention, as a medical personnel, I have to treat my fellow soldier or an enemy casualty with the same care regardless.

Or how about treating Iraqi civilians after they got hit by an insurgent IED? Does this make the news?

Of course not. Only the terrible incidents that paint our military like we're all some cold-blooded, redneck patritotic fucktards.

Well, devil doc, that's the way it is. Also, according to Geneva Convention we all have a duty to help wounded personnel.

 

[iamaustrian]

Because according to the Geneva Convention, as a medical personnel, I have to treat my fellow soldier or an enemy casualty with the same care regardless.

I fucking hope so

 

[X-Burner]

Jesus Christ. Just the way those gunners are talking pissed the fuck out of me. Why the fuck are people like this let into the military?

 

[Epsilon-delta]

I fucking hope so

Don't worry, I did but by going by your reply that seems hard for you to believe.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

The bastards on that Fox article are dismissing this as "left wing agenda" and that WikiLeaks is destroying the United States. Fuck me, that is more enraging than the video.

 

[Rabbit Lord]

The real problem here is the cover up. Soldiers make horrible decisions, horrible decisions are investigated by higher ups, higher ups try to cover it up.

War is an ugly ugly business and ugly shit happens. The only option at that point is to make a statement clarifying that an engage order was given that never should have been and that proper punishment is being handed down. Instead they try to sit on it and now they have a mess on their hands.

Your sins will always find you.

Jesus Christ. Just the way those gunners are talking pissed the fuck out of me. Why the fuck are people like this let into the military?

It seems they believe they are shooting and killing enemies.

 

[taylor910]

i find the coverup after they were found to be mistaken to be despicable.

This is where I am confused. Can you explain the cover up? In the video the ground soldier says he saw the rpg underneath the guy.

Being totally serious I am genuinely wanting to know.

 

[blame space]

Jesus Christ. Just the way those gunners are talking pissed the fuck out of me. Why the fuck are people like this let into the military?

They're a product of our military, unfortunately.

 

[WanderingWind]

Don't worry, I did but by going by your reply that seems hard for you to believe.

..that's not what he meant, doc. And they say we're the slow-learners...

They're a product of our military, unfortunately.

And chances are, you'd act similar in a similar situation.

 

[Jenga]

Could anyone defending this explain why the US Army was ever deployed to Iraq? Do you even know?

You're making the assumption that people defending the soldiers ever supported the Iraq War in the first place. These people aren't common on GAF.

They're a product of our military, unfortunately.

True. But again, I'm still not quite sure what people expect. If your average soldier WASN'T conditioned to not give a shit, it would hamper front-line performance. Price of war my friends.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

The bastards on that Fox article are dismissing this as "left wing agenda" and that WikiLeaks is destroying the United States. Fuck me, that is more enraging than the video.

Are you really susprised at the comment-dwelling trolls? The important thing is that Fox has reported this news.

 

[Pseudo_Sam]

I'm worried the exposure of this will threaten the livelihood of the soldiers involved, who did absolutely nothing wrong (in the context of their mission).

 

[avatar299]

The bastards on that Fox article are dismissing this as "left wing agenda" and that WikiLeaks is destroying the United States. Fuck me, that is more enraging than the video.

The investigative organization WikiLeaks on Monday released military video of what it describes as three incidents of an "indiscriminate slaying" by U.S. forces near Baghdad on July 12, 2007.


The investigative organization WikiLeaks on Monday released military video of what it describes as three incidents of an "indiscriminate slaying" by U.S. forces near Baghdad on July 12, 2007.

WikiLeaks says the encounters killed as many as 25 civilians, including two Reuters journalists. The U.S. military said in a statement at the time that a total of 11 people died in the strikes conducted by U.S. and Iraqi forces, including two Reuters employees.

The video, obtained by WikiLeaks, is shot from two Apache helicopters on patrol in Iraq. The choppers were responding to reports of AK-47 gunfire in the suburb of New Baghdad when military personnel on board spotted a group of nine to 12 persons, including what turned out to be the two Reuters photographers, walking through a courtyard. A military official confirmed the authenticity of the footage to Fox News.

The military contends that the U.S. followed the appropriate "Rules of Engagement" for these episodes. In fact at the time, the Pentagon says U.S. troops were hit by rocket-propelled grenades (RPG's) and small arms fire while caught in a clash with Shia insurgents.

"There is no question that coalition forces were clearly engaged in combat operations against a hostile force," said multinational forces spokesman Lt. Col. Scott Bleichwehl in July, 2007.

The video shows military personnel aboard the Apaches indicating they spot the suspects toting several AK-47s and several RPG's. But WikiLeaks contends that the Reuters photographers were only carrying cameras, which the military mistook for weapons. The helicopters circled multiple times before opening fire.

"Keep shooting!," yells a U.S. soldier recorded in the chopper radio traffic.

"Oh yeah, look at those dead bastards," responds another.

"Nice!" adds a third.

The two Reuters employees who died were 22-year-old photographer Namir Noor-Eldeen and his 40-year-old assistant Saeed Chmagh. The identities of the other casualties are unknown.

Once the smoke clears from the U.S. attack, one of the Reuters employees appears to be wounded and is crawling away from the scene.

"All you gotta do is pick up a weapon," says a voice aboard one of the Apaches.

In the second incident, a van arrives and begins to pick up the bodies. U.S. forces fire again.

WikiLeaks believes four people were killed in this attack.

Later, American ground troops pull into the courtyard in an armored Humvee and appear to drive over one of the casualties.

"I think they just drove over a body," says one of the voices aboard the Apaches.

"Really?" asks a colleague

"Yeah," answers the first voice with a chuckle.

A bit later, the same helicopters spot several individuals entering a nearby building. U.S. troops receive permission to strike again, this time with Hellfire missiles.

"Bastards!" shouts a voice from the helicopter.

"Look at that bitch go!" chimes in another voice.

"Nice missile," compliments a third voice.

Julian Assange of WikiLeaks released the video at the National Press Club in Washington. He described the U.S. troops as callous and the shootings as "another day at the office."

"The behavior of the pilots is like they're playing a video game," said Assange. "It's like they want to get high-scores in that computer game."

Reuters attempted to obtain the 38-minute video without success through the Freedom of Information Act. Assange would not say specifically about how WikiLeaks obtained the video.

"It was being conveyed by people in the U.S. military," he said, adding that some "people in the military don't like what's going on."

Asked to comment on the video, a senior military official at the Department of Defense told Fox News on the condition of anonymity that "an investigation of the incidents confirmed our belief that these attacks were justified."

"The individuals who were killed, apart from the Reuters journalists, were involved in hostile activity," this official said.

The official also said all the material seen on this video has been addressed publicly by the Department of Defense. "With regard to the death of the journalists and the apparent misidentification -- all of this has been acknowledged in the past," the official said.

The "Rules of Engagement" have not been changed following the incident.

Where the hell does it say "left wingers destroying america"?

 

[Shard]

Deplorable, just deplorable.

 

[SapientWolf]

It's funny though how all the good things we do in Iraq never make the news.

I'm a Corpsman (Navy medic) and have served two tours in Iraq with the Marines. Do you know how many insurgents I have saved from bleeding out?

These insurgents open fire/RPG'd our convoy and my Marines lit them up. The ones that are not killed initially, I treat their wounds, whether it's minor or severe.

Because according to the Geneva Convention, as a medical personnel, I have to treat my fellow soldier or an enemy casualty with the same care regardless.

Or how about treating Iraqi civilians after they got hit by an insurgent IED? Does this make the news?

Of course not. Only the terrible incidents that paint our military like we're all some cold-blooded, redneck patritotic fucktards.

Anyone who tries to paint a black and white picture of war is oversimplifying, no matter which side they're arguing for. War is gray as hell.

 

[blame space]

And chances are, you'd act similar in a similar situation.

I wouldn't put myself in a similar situation. I would hope that the U.S. government wouldn't put me in a similar situation.

 

[Xabora]

Where the hell does it say "left wingers destroying america"?

I think he means people in the comment section.

 

[WanderingWind]

I wouldn't put myself in a similar situation. I would hope that the U.S. government wouldn't put me in a similar situation.

That's nice. Also, irrelevant. But nice, though.

 

[DarthWoo]

This is where I am confused. Can you explain the cover up? In the video the ground soldier says he saw the rpg underneath the guy.

Being totally serious I am genuinely wanting to know.

Among other things, the battalion XO's statements to the press in the aftermath: "No innocent civilians were killed on our part deliberately. We took great pains to prevent that. I know that two children were hurt, and we did everything we could to help them. I don't know how the children were hurt."

Even IF we assume the Apache crew had a reasonable suspicion that these people were militants, he was flat out lying about the children. They knew EXACTLY how the children were hurt. They didn't do everything they could to help them. They could have taken them to a decent US medical facility, but someone up the chain of command decided to just pawn them off to local Iraqi police to take them to what would likely be some run down dilapidated local hospital.

Let's also not forget that despite Reuter's attempts to obtain this video through FOIA for several years, it was only made available through a third party's intervention just now.

 

[blame space]

That's nice. Also, irrelevant. But nice, though.

Then you yourself posed an irrelevant statement.

 

[OriginalThinking]

These guys are trained to be on the front lines killing people. Of all things to be surprised and shocked about in this video, their nonchalant behavior towards eliminating people they consider to be their enemies is not really one of them.

Wrong. I am shocked about the nonchalant killing, and it highlights to me everything that is wrong with military protocol and attitude if this is considered acceptable. This thread has been a real eye opener for me.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

..that's not what he meant, doc. And they say we're the slow-learners...

:lol

My bad. I'm on duty and a little tired so my reading comprehension suffers somewhat.

 

[Buba Big Guns]

This is simply the most ignorant rant posted as of yet. You may want to calm down a bit before picking apart your own "argument" here. I'll assume you're really smarter than this.

?

I really dont see how anyone could not think that there is a big problem with the "rules of engagement" after watch this video.

 

[Amir0x]

It's funny though how all the good things we do in Iraq never make the news.

I'm a Corpsman (Navy medic) and have served two tours in Iraq with the Marines. Do you know how many insurgents I have saved from bleeding out?

These insurgents open fire/RPG'd our convoy and my Marines lit them up. The ones that are not killed initially, I treat their wounds, whether it's minor or severe.

Because according to the Geneva Convention, as a medical personnel, I have to treat my fellow soldier or an enemy casualty with the same care regardless.

Or how about treating Iraqi civilians after they got hit by an insurgent IED? Does this make the news?

Of course not. Only the terrible incidents that paint our military like we're all some cold-blooded, redneck patritotic fucktards.

I have great respect for our military and the men and women serving. I work for the government, helping to repair equipment for the field:

(we were bring an old Vietnam Huey back from the dead for museum/restaurant display)

(mobilizer)

I do respect what you do. This is why it's such an embarrassment when something like this is seen. It does a disservice to YOU, who may be serving out in the field, and potentially puts you in danger by riling up the insurgents with anti-American rhetoric (in this case, justified).

My point is that as an American, I am embarrassed for our country when a service man disrespects our values and our country by doing things like this. Quite obviously, the majority are not like this. But high profile fuck ups like this are a shame and a needless byproduct of a war we should never have participated in.

It's a lose lose.

 

[avatar299]

Then you yourself posed an irrelevant statement.

so you would act like the soldiers in that situation. Okay then

 

[daw840]

No, but then again one only needs to see a single tea party to know the type of idiots that live here.

Such a great country we have, always someone giving our values a bad name with shit like this.

Obviously there is equally bad shit from the terrorists, but this isn't about moral equivalency. We're better than them. We're supposed to be better than them, because we are. Factually. So this is shameful.

Well, then you would have to look into intent. We are better than them. We did make a mistake, that is bound to happen, but those soldiers did not fly up in that helicopter with the intent to kill innocent civilians. Unfortunately, the people we are fighting do purposefully kill innocent civilians.

 

[Pseudo_Sam]

Even IF we assume the Apache crew had a reasonable suspicion that these people were militants

See, this is what I don't understand. They look like they are holding guns. One of them, with what appears to be an rpg, ducks around a corner. This is in a hostile area. Did you want them to whip out a megaphone and ask if they were terrorists? It seems like a pretty reasonable conclusion to me.

 

[wave dial]

And chances are, you'd act similar in a similar situation.

link? references for the "chances"?

 

[iamaustrian]

holy shit at the foxnews comments

 

[WillyFive]

The comments on the Fox News article are just as insulting as the video.

 

[blame space]

so you would act like the soldiers in that situation. Okay then

:lol No, I would do what I said I would(n't) do. My response was deemed "nice" and "irrelevant". Sorry for answering?

 

[Epsilon-delta]

Anyone who tries to paint a black and white picture of war is oversimplifying, no matter which side they're arguing for. War is gray as hell.

I agree, War is gray, no doubt about it.

But by going by this thread it would seem plenty of people think everyone in the military is a brainwashed, no remorse killing machine.