Goalus
Member
What he says makes no sense regarding Xbox.
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Will every PS5 and Nextbox game also have to function with PS4 Pro and XBOX?
- Thread starter Gamezone
- Start date
What he says makes no sense regarding Xbox.
The Baron Count
Member
No and there is no evidence that they will. This is a fear that people keep having for no good reason at all. I saw many people here insisting that the Pro was a new generation that was going to have exclusive games, it wasn't. Then people were saying the XB1X was going to be that way, it wasn't. And there was never anything pointing in that direction for either of those systems either except for MS's weird "beyond generations" thing which came off as nothing more than a buzz term to me.
Backwards compatibility is a given, but neither of these companies are about to start mandating cross gen games, that would be incredibly stupid. You don't release new hardware just to intentionally gimp the developers using it. Both the Pro and The XB1X were designed for 4K, that is their purpose. That's why the only things that were dramatically changed were things that would enable that to be done with CURRENT engine technology. Those resources can be used in other ways but that wasn't the intention.
Backwards compatibility is a given, but neither of these companies are about to start mandating cross gen games, that would be incredibly stupid. You don't release new hardware just to intentionally gimp the developers using it. Both the Pro and The XB1X were designed for 4K, that is their purpose. That's why the only things that were dramatically changed were things that would enable that to be done with CURRENT engine technology. Those resources can be used in other ways but that wasn't the intention.
ethomaz
Banned
Wut?
Your comment makes no sense.
Nextbox can play old games and that has nothing to do with OP subject.
No sense are people believing Nextbox (Xbox Two?) games will run on Xbox One.
There will be a new gen where cross gen games will stop to exists... so Xbox One family of consoles will be excluded from the new games that will play only on Nextbox.
StrategyFan
Member
usually a game made to run at a certain framerate can't maintain that framerate on a weaker CPU
maybe if the ps5 version is 60 fps a ps4 version can be 30 fps
maybe if the ps5 version is 60 fps a ps4 version can be 30 fps
Jaguar Victory
Member
I expect full backwards compatibility for the next XBOX: that means it will play all XBOX One games.
I do not expect full forwards compatibility for the next XBOX: that means new games coming to the next XBOX may not necessarily work on older hardware.
I do not expect full forwards compatibility for the next XBOX: that means new games coming to the next XBOX may not necessarily work on older hardware.
hydrophilic attack
Member
lol so you didn't even understand the question OP is asking 😂
Hint: This is about forward compatibility, not backwards compatibility
Goalus
Member
It won't because Xbox One X would have no purpose in this case.
Nobody really knows at this point.
My guess is that Microsoft will strongly encourage supporting a downgraded version that will work on One X but one the One or One S, but ultimately it will be up to the publisher. This will continue until Nextbox X. BC standard from now on.
PS5, no way in hell. And who knows.
My guess is that Microsoft will strongly encourage supporting a downgraded version that will work on One X but one the One or One S, but ultimately it will be up to the publisher. This will continue until Nextbox X. BC standard from now on.
PS5, no way in hell. And who knows.
Gemüsepizza
Member
Neither Microsoft nor Sony will have forward compatibility. People who think this will happen don't really seem to know much about game development, because it is nowhere the same as mobile app development.
Forward compatibility would introduce massive headaches for developers, and seriously cripple the technical scope of their games. It would also make progress in areas like CPU mostly useless.
There is also no chance that Microsoft will introduce forward compatibility, while Sony won't. Just think about it: This would require that all developers build their games around the Jaguar CPU of Xbox One (X). Third party devs will not do that, especially considering PlayStation is currently the market leader. And it makes no sense for first party devs either. Xbox exclusives would seriously lack compared to PlayStation exclusives, and Microsoft can not allow this to happen, because their first party effort is already seen in a bad spot.
Forward compatibility would introduce massive headaches for developers, and seriously cripple the technical scope of their games. It would also make progress in areas like CPU mostly useless.
There is also no chance that Microsoft will introduce forward compatibility, while Sony won't. Just think about it: This would require that all developers build their games around the Jaguar CPU of Xbox One (X). Third party devs will not do that, especially considering PlayStation is currently the market leader. And it makes no sense for first party devs either. Xbox exclusives would seriously lack compared to PlayStation exclusives, and Microsoft can not allow this to happen, because their first party effort is already seen in a bad spot.
You're talking about backwards compatibility, which is good, everyone agrees. But the discussion is forward compatibility which is not so good to a point imo. Using your example, imagine is crackdown 3 was compatible with the OG xbox.
hanspampel
Banned
I honest hope MS and Sony will go different routes
So the consumer can choose if they hate and don't want to be "held back" by crossgen, or if they prefer a no generation approach and want backwards and forward compatibility
So the consumer can choose if they hate and don't want to be "held back" by crossgen, or if they prefer a no generation approach and want backwards and forward compatibility
wesleyshark
Banned
Edit: misread lol
LukasTaves
Member
MS platform will be like currently it is on PC:
Eventually Xbone support will stop being mandated, but that does not mean 100% of the new games won't work on it anymore, it will be on a per game basis.
With the fact that if you buy the game on xbone you already have a XboneZ (the sucessor of scorpio) version that will run that game even better means that even those that want to wait until the hardware becomes cheaper will be still active purchasing new games, so there's an incentive for developers to continue supporting it longer.
Think Destiny, instead of being 2 separated versions being a single purchase that allows you to keep playing with your friends that upgraded to xbone, and when you finally move too because you wanted or an update made the game no longer able to run on 360 you get to keep all your progress, and dlc, and friends.
In other words, perfection.
Eventually Xbone support will stop being mandated, but that does not mean 100% of the new games won't work on it anymore, it will be on a per game basis.
With the fact that if you buy the game on xbone you already have a XboneZ (the sucessor of scorpio) version that will run that game even better means that even those that want to wait until the hardware becomes cheaper will be still active purchasing new games, so there's an incentive for developers to continue supporting it longer.
Think Destiny, instead of being 2 separated versions being a single purchase that allows you to keep playing with your friends that upgraded to xbone, and when you finally move too because you wanted or an update made the game no longer able to run on 360 you get to keep all your progress, and dlc, and friends.
In other words, perfection.
ethomaz
Banned
Xbox One X purpose is to be a mid-gen premium refresh for users that wants a premium device this generation.
It has nothing to do with the next generation.
Nextbox games won't play on any Xbox One hardware (that include Xbox One X) unless the early cross gen games that will be dropped after first year.
Making an example...
- First Nextbox CoD will be cross gen and support Xbox One X.
- Second Nextbox CoD will be new gen only and take advantage only of Nextbox hardware.
bryanee
Member
We're not talking about BC.
Goalus
Member
Forward compatibility in the Xbox ecosystem will always only extend over "adjacent" devices.
LukasTaves
Member
No evidence for PS4, Phil has more than once said that this is their plan for Xbox, even if they are still going to take a wait and see approach instead of committing to doing it this early.
Nah , at least not the PS5. I'd expect it'll have a far better CPU meaning the best we can hope for is that last gen games will simply have an upgrade tax the way a few titles did on PS3 back in 2013. This would only affect "games as a service" titles like Destiny or FFXIV though.
So , something worth keeping in mind going forward then - PS4 releases will always run on a regular or pro model and may even work via BC on a PS5 but new PS5 titles most likely won't work on the PS4 line save for a few exceptions.
MS won't be making a new Xbox for 4-5 years now so it's probably an even safer bet that we won't see forwards compatibility there either.
So , something worth keeping in mind going forward then - PS4 releases will always run on a regular or pro model and may even work via BC on a PS5 but new PS5 titles most likely won't work on the PS4 line save for a few exceptions.
MS won't be making a new Xbox for 4-5 years now so it's probably an even safer bet that we won't see forwards compatibility there either.
Goalus
Member
No that isn't its only purpose.
You can only come to this conclusion if you are convinced that just because Sony might do it this way, everyone else will as well.
The Baron Count
Member
When? Aside from his dubious "beyond generations" term, when has he explicitly said that their plan for the next system is to mandate that there has to be XB1 versions of those games?
Yes, based on what we have heard that is in fact it's only purpose. They have said it over and over again. The thing was built to play XB1 games at 4K.
ethomaz
Banned
We will be talking about PS5 and new Xbox in 2019/2020... so the newXbox is just 2-3 years max away.
7nm being ready Sony and MS will show new exclusive (not being hold by old) hardware.
ethomaz
Banned
It is not my conclusion.
MS themselves specified this purpose but I can see some users having dreams with things that MS never supported like a different purpose for Xbox One X.
Goalus
Member
I could imagine a new Xbox in as early as three years (i.e. fall 2020) - that nobody will need to buy in order to stay in the ecosystem because all the newest games will run on Xbox One X as well. But like with Xbox One X at this moment, you _could_ buy it if you want the high-end Xbox.
ethomaz
Banned
Nextbox in 2020 will have it Ryse and Forza 5 like game... you will only play it only Nextbox.
TheBryanJZX90
Member
I hope that they do. Move it closer to a tablet/smartphone upgrade cycle with frequent refreshes that maintain comparability going backwards indefinitely, and going forwards for at least 5-7 years.
Goalus
Member
OK, then let's see how it turns out.
I personally think that cost and effort that went into the development of Xbox One X are a little too large to just dump it in three years.
MS has also said that generations are a thing of the past in their ecosystem from now on. And the only way this could come to be would be the approach that I have laid out.
Interficium
Banned
Only gaffers would think games being "held back" is a bigger concern to devs than hard-resetting a 100-million+ install base.
Third party AAA development is getting too expensive to absorb the hard reset between generations. Third parties have the most weight in the industry right now. Something will give, no matter what Mark Cerny's preferences are.
People saying "most ps5 games will only play on ps5" are deluding themselves. Even if Sony and Microsoft don't get rid of the concept of traditional generations, third parties will still release titles cross-gen for at least a year or more after "PS5" or whatever comes out.
Third party AAA development is getting too expensive to absorb the hard reset between generations. Third parties have the most weight in the industry right now. Something will give, no matter what Mark Cerny's preferences are.
People saying "most ps5 games will only play on ps5" are deluding themselves. Even if Sony and Microsoft don't get rid of the concept of traditional generations, third parties will still release titles cross-gen for at least a year or more after "PS5" or whatever comes out.
hydrophilic attack
Member
exactly
because OP was not talking about backwards compatibility
with the level of reading comprehension on display in this thread, suddenly trump being elected seems less of a mystery
Theres no reason why they couldn't do it, whether they is a different story.
It will be interesting to see how console manufactures and publishers handle it. I fully expect the next generation to be fully backwards compatible due to the hardware decisions they made going into this generation. But whether they will use these current consoles as the min requirements going into future generations is a different problem to address, the current generation best selling consoles essentially started over again in regards to what it could play, that hasn't stopped millions buying it, but will millions buy new consoles when they can continue to play every new game coming out? Some people will always upgrade, but if every PS5/XB2 game plays on current consoles there will there be the same urge to get a new console?
But I am also fine with how console generations have worked, forward compatibility is a nice idea and will work to some extent in regards to how we are moving to dynamic resolutions, but there's only so many organic improvements you can do without having to put out new stuff.
It will get to a point though where the baseline will move on. It does on pretty much everything at some point the gap is just usually bigger or seems bigger due to the number of hardware releaseses, people use phones as examples but seem to ignore than the OS makers leave older models behind and apps stop getting updates or just don't work eventually without specific OS versions.
What I would like at least at the start of a new generation is similar to what Dice did with BF4, buy one version and get an upgraded one when you get the new console. Like how you can get films that have both DVD and Blu-Ray discs. It's "forward compatibility" to a point, but the last console can be left when they feel they can't do what they want on older hardware.
It will be interesting to see how console manufactures and publishers handle it. I fully expect the next generation to be fully backwards compatible due to the hardware decisions they made going into this generation. But whether they will use these current consoles as the min requirements going into future generations is a different problem to address, the current generation best selling consoles essentially started over again in regards to what it could play, that hasn't stopped millions buying it, but will millions buy new consoles when they can continue to play every new game coming out? Some people will always upgrade, but if every PS5/XB2 game plays on current consoles there will there be the same urge to get a new console?
But I am also fine with how console generations have worked, forward compatibility is a nice idea and will work to some extent in regards to how we are moving to dynamic resolutions, but there's only so many organic improvements you can do without having to put out new stuff.
It will get to a point though where the baseline will move on. It does on pretty much everything at some point the gap is just usually bigger or seems bigger due to the number of hardware releaseses, people use phones as examples but seem to ignore than the OS makers leave older models behind and apps stop getting updates or just don't work eventually without specific OS versions.
What I would like at least at the start of a new generation is similar to what Dice did with BF4, buy one version and get an upgraded one when you get the new console. Like how you can get films that have both DVD and Blu-Ray discs. It's "forward compatibility" to a point, but the last console can be left when they feel they can't do what they want on older hardware.
Goalus
Member
Sorry, but I disagree. Seems that we will have to wait and see.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
There's usually a 1 year period after a new console launches where publishers make their games for both the new and old systems. After that it should be focused almost exclusively on PC/PS5/Xbox 2
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Microsoft, yes. "The end of generations"
Sony? Maybe?
Sony? Maybe?
It takes developers a while to get the most out of new hardware, so I can MAYBE see the first PS5 games also being playable on PS4 Pro/ Nextbox games on X1X (with downgrades like a reduced framerate) until everyone gets out of the learning curve.
That said I don't know enough about tech to know if that's feasible, but given how we typically get cross-gen games when a new generation starts it at least seems feasible (to me)?
That said I don't know enough about tech to know if that's feasible, but given how we typically get cross-gen games when a new generation starts it at least seems feasible (to me)?
wesleyshark
Banned
Edited
hydrophilic attack
Member
Do you have a link for where Phil says that their future plan is forwards compatibility
JamesHolden
Banned
I don't think next gen games will be playable on current gen consoles, but I do think my digital Xbox library of Xbox, 360, and One games will be playable on Nextbox. I don't really care if Sony wants to gouge it's customers again for the same content as I don't have a Sony digital library.
wesleyshark
Banned
This one?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikka...out-the-future-of-console-games/#583efd4128f5
"So from a development platform, we needed to think about our hardware as multi-generational. Because we said 'Okay, there's gonna be games that are going to live multiple generations. And our software platform really has to service a developer's need to service an ongoing set of users."
Full interview:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/..._Phil_Spencer_looks_to_the_future_of_Xbox.php
Stilton Disco
Member
I fucking hope not, that would be terrible for us as consumers and the industry as a whole.
New generations create a new baseline, a new minimum target that raises the ambitions and potential of all games. If we're shackled to outdated technology, potentially a decade old, and especially with those weak CPU's, we may as well all get new hobbies right now.
New generations create a new baseline, a new minimum target that raises the ambitions and potential of all games. If we're shackled to outdated technology, potentially a decade old, and especially with those weak CPU's, we may as well all get new hobbies right now.
LukasTaves
Member
He's been giving interviews about that for a while now, even on the E3 interviews there's 2 or 3 where he goes into detail of what they want to do for the future of Xbox.
But honestly, it's already in a point they don't need to tell us anymore to see where they are going because it's already a very clear path:
- They unified their OS, development platforms, features, and even the store across PC, Xbox (and even Mobile)
- They are not throwing that away on the next xbox and starting over.
- The store already allows a single purchase granting license to play on a range of devices
- The development platform (uwp) already allows developing to xbox one, scaling up to xbonex, and scaling up even higher on high end PCs.
- And more importantly, it also allows to scale lower than xbone
- You have a unified development platform that works on xbone, xbonex and xboneZ, so it's not like going from 360 to xbone where the dev platform was completely different and incompatible, this means less work for supporting all the range.
- You have a unified OS with the same features, again unlike OG Xbox -> 360 and 360 -> Xbone where the change in development platform required a change even on xbox live. So same network across all devices that can just log in and interact together.
- You have a unified store across all these devices (something that also used to be remade every generation shift) allowing games purchased to be used on all devices that store supports.
Connecting the dots is really easy to see where this goes.
As for Phil saying himself, here's an text interview where he goes about these topics:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...Phil_Spencer_looks_to_the_future_of_Xbox.phpQ
ElfArmy177
Member
Hope so, what I'd like to see is everything on the new Xbox runs all Xbox one games, but I don't want the new games to run on old hardware. It holds back potentially great ideas
ByWatterson
Member
Yes, but only for a time, as with this generation, although I expect the crossgen tail to be much longer, given the midgen refreshes.
Those 2013 console will be fazed out.
