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[AuthenticM]

ITT: people who don't understand the concept of forward compatibility.

To TC: no, the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X will not be forward compatible with next-gen games. Next-gen games cannot be held back by 2013 technology. That would be utter insanity.

And for those saying "but third-parties don't want to lose the market owned by the current consoles", these third-party will continue doing what they've always been doing: release their games for both current-gen and next-gen consoles.

 

[gelf]

Wait, people still don't understand the technical reasons why PS4 can't fully emulate PS3 games? That's the most surprising thing in this thread.

I think most people understand why PS3 emulation on PS4 isn't going to happen. What makes people like me sceptical about Sony's​future support of backwards compatibility is how they've treated everything else. PS4 was the first system that won't play PS1 games either from disc or from digital. They brought select PS2 games back but previous digital purchases didn't carry forward. And then Jim Ryan makes his shitting on old games statement.

This all adds up to an image of a company that can't be trusted on backward or forward compatibility until they prove otherwise.

 

[Macrotus]

What makes people like me sceptical about Sony's​future support of backwards compatibility is how they've treated everything else. PS4 was the first system that won't play PS1 games either from disc or from digital. They brought select PS2 games back but previous digital purchases didn't carry forward. And then Jim Ryan makes his shitting on old games statement.

I'm also surprised they aren't giving PS4 a PS1 emulation support.
And I'd understand if this makes people worry if PS5 would have backwards compatibility.
Like, maybe they wouldn't want to implement BC because they want to make a true 4K remastered version for their popular PS4 games and release it on PS5 to makes some extra $$$.

 

[gamz]

Jez seems to think next box with be forward backward.

"I still see journos talk about "next gen." At least for Xbox ecosystem, you're looking at full forward/back compatibility for the long term."

 

[Ushay]

I'm guessing Xbox One X has triggered all these PS5 discussions.

 

[Kydd BlaZe]

This honestly doesn't make any sense.

It would mean that PS5 and NextBox games wouldn't be truly next gen if they're still able to run on old machines.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

No, because the both still have shit CPU that presumably would be getting the most significant upgrade in the next console over these mid-gen GPU boosts. Obviously like this gen, we'll see a lot of games across both gens for a couple years, but very few if any will be exclusively pro/x, because publishers know that those consoles have far smaller install bases, not to mention that the niche market for those consoles is the same consumers that are most likely to buy the next gen asap.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

Microsoft, probably. Sony, no.

Both are headed in different directions and I by far prefer Sony's. What's the point in having a powerful home console if it's being held back by earlier iterations?

Not to mention the fact that when they cost $400+, do you really want to spend that much money just so you can play an 18 year old game? I sure as hell don't.

PlayStation 5 should easily surpass Scorpio by the time it's released. I'm just hoping that they include the most updated and current CPU available because playing Ghost Recon Wildlands (and other games), it's time that the more important aspect of the consoles gets a massive increase/upgrade.

 

[MulderYuffie]

i hope i do expect it more out of Microsoft considering their recent efforts.

 

[Duxxy3]

My guess is that PS5 games will only work on PS5 systems. XB2 games will also work on XB1X. Everything else older gets cut off. The same way it works with smart phones after a while. Eventually the old hardware can't be dragged along.

 

[gamz]

My guess is that PS5 games will only work on PS5 systems. XB2 games will also work on XB1X. Everything else older gets cut off. The same way it works with smart phones after a while. Eventually the old hardware can't be dragged along.

Yup.

 

[Nesther]

I don't think the PS5 will have FC, it'll be a clear next gen cut. But what I do expect is full PS4 BC. No reason not to do it this time around, there's no Cell shenanigans to deal with.

I just want to know that when I get a PS5 I can pop in Persona 5 or whatever and play it.

 

[gamz]

Microsoft, probably. Sony, no.

Both are headed in different directions and I by far prefer Sony's. What's the point in having a powerful home console if it's being held back by earlier iterations?

Not to mention the fact that when they cost $400+, do you really want to spend that much money just so you can play an 18 year old game? I sure as hell don't.

PlayStation 5 should easily surpass Scorpio by the time it's released. I'm just hoping that they include the most updated and current CPU available because playing Ghost Recon Wildlands (and other games), it's time that the more important aspect of the consoles gets a massive increase/upgrade.

And new Xbox will exceed PS5 (at a higher price point) and still have the X at a lower price point. I think everyone thinking that Sony is going to one up Xbox is crazy.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

The better question would be "Will every PS5 and Nextbox game be intentionally developed lazily when released or hold back, in anticipation of yet another mid-gen upgrade".

That said, no OP, a PS5 game won't run on a PS4. With Xbox, they might as well go the Apple route of constant upgrades to set precident, so there is a tiny chance of it actually working out I'd presume. I don't really believe it though.

 

[Applecot]

They don't "have" to but I expect both will, considering their very PC-like architecture.

I do put more money on Sony shitting the bed in this regard though

 

[Mass Effect]

Microsoft will be in an interesting position come the next round of consoles. Will they try to aim for a simultaneous release with Sony or are they fine with waiting a year later for a clearly more powerful system at a lower price point?

Because if they choose to go for the simultaneous release, I wonder if they would price themselves to be $100 more expensive for that clear power advantage? After all, the early adopters buying at launch don't mind paying more (clearly, since they're buying at launch), and specs matter more to that audience.

And would they really want to give Sony a year headstart? That's what helped the 360 a bit. If there's going to be forward compatibility between the Nextbox and Xbox One X, then I could see them waiting a year, because again, it will give them that clear power advantage, possibly for a lower price than what the X is launching at.

 

[Deleted member 471617]

And new Xbox will exceed PS5 (at a higher price point) and still have the X at a lower price point. I think everyone thinking that Sony is going to one up Xbox is crazy.

I have no doubt that PlayStation 5 will surpass Scorpio in terms of power and tech. Hell, the console could be exactly the same as Scorpio but with a at the time current CPU and it's already surpassed it.

I don't think that Xbox 4 would surpass PS5 if it's still connected to the Xbox One line. How could it if it's being held back by an old and obsolete Jaguar CPU?

 

[LegitMcfalls]

Could you imagine the outrage if console games had to be made for both ps4/xbone AND ps3/360.

Ps4 and xbox one even the pro and X will all be dropped like yesterdays trash for the next gen of consoles.

The pro and X are enthusiast consoles made for people who put alot of time and money into video games. If you feel like you need an upgrade 3-4 years after the release of the current gen, you will probably feel the need to uprade again when the next gen hits.

 

[Omnii-chan]

Microsoft is a pretty safe bet.

 

[gamz]

Microsoft will be in an interesting position come the next round of consoles. Will they try to aim for a simultaneous release with Sony or are they fine with waiting a year later for a clearly more powerful system at a lower price point?

Because if they choose to go for the simultaneous release, I wonder if they would price themselves to be $100 more expensive for that clear power advantage? After all, the early adopters buying at launch don't mind paying more (clearly, since they're buying at launch), and specs matter more to that audience.

And would they really want to give Sony a year headstart? That's what helped the 360 a bit. If there's going to be forward compatibility between the Nextbox and Xbox One X, then I could see them waiting a year, because again, it will give them that clear power advantage, possibly for a lower price than what the X is launching at.

Yes. By 2020-2021 the S will be 7 years old. They can easily out spec and out price the PS5 and still have the X for the budget model, while stop supporting the weaker S.

I mean right?

 

[BritBloke916]

Yes. By 2020-2021 the S will be 7 years old. They can easily out spec and out price the PS5 and still have the X for the budget model.

Fundamentally, the CPU in the X will also be 7 years old by 2020-2021. It would be very difficult to attempt to force developers to support Jaguar in their next generation games. Matt groans about having to support it already!

 

[nekkid]

Fundamentally, the CPU in the X will also be 7 years old by 2020-2021. It would be very difficult to attempt to force developers to support Jaguar in their next generation games. Matt groans about having to support it already!

He moans about everything, though!

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Why are people talking about PS5? Geez, let us live in the present for a change.

Xbox One X effect. I really think it is. With all this talk of how powerful it is, and how games should end up looking and running on it, it inevitably leads to talk of what Sony has coming, and when.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Could you imagine the outrage if console games had to be made for both ps4/xbone AND ps3/360.

Ps4 and xbox one even the pro and X will all be dropped like yesterdays trash for the next gen of consoles.

The pro and X are enthusiast consoles made for people who put alot of time and money into video games. If you feel like you need an upgrade 3-4 years after the release of the current gen, you will probably feel the need to uprade again when the next gen hits.

How powerful are you expecting PS5 and nextbox? There are plenty of pcs out there in the 4 - 6tflop range playing the same games as 10 tflop pcs. I'll be amazed if you see a 5x bump in specs for next gen. Those numbers are huge. If the cpu isn't a brick wall then both pro and scorpio can expect a 7 or 8 year support life. Didn't MS talk about beyond generations and iterative models?

 

[arhra]

I'm expecting cross-gen development to be the norm (at least for third-parties) for at least a year or two after next-gen consoles are introduced, much as it was this gen.

I can see it working differently on Xbox/PlayStation, though - for PS5 you'll probably see traditional cross-gen ports, with there being separate PS4 and PS5 versions of games available. On Xbox I'm expecting MS to require UWP development so that there's one game that just scales across generations.

It won't be mandated, though - if the CPU improvements are anywhere close to the level we're all hoping for, MS/Sony will want to be able to have exclusives to show off what the system can really do.

Actually, thinking about it, it'll be interesting to see how MS handle retail packaging for cross-gen games, if they do stick to a single scaling codebase across generations - do they just sell one version of the game, and have it download whatever assets/updates as necessary on the new console? They could maybe bill it as some kind of "enhanced backwards compatibility", or something, but that would then make the library of games built for the new system seem smaller, which probably isn't a good look when an uninformed potential customer is looking at the shelves in GameStop.

Or do they sell separate versions in the respective case styles for the XB1 and the new system, even if there's no fundamental difference (aside from optional asset packs) once installed?

And how will the X fit in? It should be able to read UHD discs, which next gen games will presumably be shipping on (since BD is looking small even for current-gen games), and could definitely use at least some of the higher-res assets, so maybe they ship copies on BD in regular Xbox One packaging for the One/S, but ship UHD copies complete with asset packs in next-gen packaging, but have a "Works on Xbox One X" banner for cross-gen-compatible games?

 

[RedSwirl]

This would create an incredibly confusing situation for consumers.

It makes more sense to have it as

when the Xbox Next is released. Xbox One OG/S is EOL, meaning no first party games will be running on it in the future, third parties have an option.

Xbox One X becomes the low end SKU

Xbox Next becomes the high end SKU like how Xbox One X is the high end of Xbox One S

So there could be a new console every 3-4 years.

Microsoft has the technical engineering to pull this off. However Sony is a different story has their decisions on how PS4 Architecture and APIs are made will affect their decisions of BC going forward.

I don't see why giving devs the option for forward compatibility (but not forcing it on them) doesn't make sense.

How it would probably happen is both PS5 and NextBox having backwards compatibility, and Sony and Microsoft respectively giving developers the ability to patch PS4 and Xbox One games to run with enhanced graphics when played on a PS5 or NextBox. It'd be the same as PS4 Pro and Xbox One X patches for existing games now, except new games wouldn't be required to support the old hardware.

I guess it depends on how you look at it: Are these PS5 games made to be forwards compatible with PS4, or are they backwards compatible PS4 games patched to take advantage of the PS5?

Personally I think it's the latter. If you look at most cross-gen games right now, they're basically last-gen games that run with better graphics at a higher resolution and framerate on current consoles. You can still see a huge difference between them and games made from the ground-up on PS4. Look at the difference between Wolfenstein: The New Order and the gameplay trailer for New Colossus. Last-gen totally held back New Order and nobody really complained when it came out. Persona 5 is pretty much a PS3 game running in 1080p on PS4 and nobody complains. Same with Yakuza 0.

I'm expecting cross-gen development to be the norm (at least for third-parties) for at least a year or two after next-gen consoles are introduced, much as it was this gen.

I can see it working differently on Xbox/PlayStation, though - for PS5 you'll probably see traditional cross-gen ports, with there being separate PS4 and PS5 versions of games available. On Xbox I'm expecting MS to require UWP development so that there's one game that just scales across generations.

It won't be mandated, though - if the CPU improvements are anywhere close to the level we're all hoping for, MS/Sony will want to be able to have exclusives to show off what the system can really do.

Actually, thinking about it, it'll be interesting to see how MS handle retail packaging for cross-gen games, if they do stick to a single scaling codebase across generations - do they just sell one version of the game, and have it download whatever assets/updates as necessary on the new console? They could maybe bill it as some kind of "enhanced backwards compatibility", or something, but that would then make the library of games built for the new system seem smaller, which probably isn't a good look when an uninformed potential customer is looking at the shelves in GameStop.

Or do they sell separate versions in the respective case styles for the XB1 and the new system, even if there's no fundamental difference (aside from optional asset packs) once installed?

And how will the X fit in? It should be able to read UHD discs, which next gen games will presumably be shipping on (since BD is looking small even for current-gen games), and could definitely use at least some of the higher-res assets, so maybe they ship copies on BD in regular Xbox One packaging for the One/S, but ship UHD copies complete with asset packs in next-gen packaging, but have a "Works on Xbox One X" banner for cross-gen-compatible games?

This is kind of how I see it going down. I didn't think to mention it this way though -- Microsoft is probably heavily in favor of just making games with one code base that scales across gens. That doesn't mean some games wont have a "minimum NextBox" requirement or something, like how iOS apps have a minimum OS version requirement. It's just a question of whether Sony will do this. If one does and the other doesn't, next gen is gonna look weird.

 

[Betty]

How did it turn out?

It resulted in a lot of underwhelmed people who'd long been hyping the system as a generation-less new beginning for Microsoft.

In the end it's what PS4 Pro is to PS4, a beefier Xbox One.

 

[Chill Penguin]

I think MS strategy now is to have a higher priced performance model and a lower priced budget model. That way they win the power narrative and the price narrative. I expect backwards and forwards compatibility with the one s being dropped when the next Xbox releases. At that point the one x becomes the budget model.

 

[DBT85]

Xbox One X effect. I really think it is. With all this talk of how powerful it is, and how games should end up looking and running on it, it inevitably leads to talk of what Sony has coming, and when.

Or, we've been talking about the PS5 and the XboxOneTwo since like, a year after launch of both the PS4 and the Xbone becuase there are plenty of interesting things to think about. The mid gen refresh of both has only added more questions. When will the come, will MS wait a year or will they launch the same time, how will launching a year later on a new CPU change the "war", how much will they cost, blaa blaa.

 

[-hadouken]

Microsoft is a pretty safe bet.

I wouldn't bet my house that Nadella will continue to support Xbox hardware. With the newly found emphasis on windows, I think there's a possibility (albeit remote) that console development could wind down in the next gen.

 

[PeterLegend]

MS waited a year and created a more powerful system priced higher.

What makes you think they'd wait a year to release essentially a similar specced console at a lower price?

Lol

 

[SteamyPunk]

I don't see how it makes business sense for MS to make their future XBOXs forward compatible. What are people predicting for current gen sales over the next two years? It seems to me that 45,000,000 total for One/One S and 10,000,000 for One X seems generous. Why handicap your console for FC only on the X unless it's a huge hit? (This obviously applies to FC on just the PS Pro too.)

Also, to people saying the next XBOX would be stronger than the PS5... If it has to be FC, wouldn't it make more sense to create something that is only marginally stronger than the X but can sell for like $299? Meaning, focus on cost and compatibility over raw specs. Making an expensive beast that's gonna be held back anyway seems pointless.

 

[99Luffy]

Also, to people saying the next XBOX would be stronger than the PS5... If it has to be FC, wouldn't it make more sense to create something that is only marginally stronger than the X but can sell for like $299? Meaning, focus on cost and compatibility over raw specs. Making an expensive beast that's gonna be held back anyway seems pointless.

Why do people play on PC then?

 

[12Dannu123]

I don't see how it makes business sense for MS to make their future XBOXs forward compatible. What are people predicting for current gen sales over the next two years? It seems to me that 45,000,000 total for One/One S and 10,000,000 for One X seems generous. Why handicap your console for FC only on the X unless it's a huge hit? (This obviously applies to FC on just the PS Pro too.)

Also, to people saying the next XBOX would be stronger than the PS5... If it has to be FC, wouldn't it make more sense to create something that is only marginally stronger than the X but can sell for like $299? Meaning, focus on cost and compatibility over raw specs. Making an expensive beast that's gonna be held back anyway seems pointless.

Because that's how the smart phone model works. Compatibility simply goes out for older models of phones. The same applies here, the One S/OG will simply go EOL when the next Xbox comes out . The Xbox One X will have reduced in price by the time the next Xbox comes out. Then the Xbox One X becomes the budget model.

That's how Apple does their iPhone cycle. The latter gen becomes the budget model.

 

[Gamezone]

Remind me. Why would anyone want this?

We don`t want it. Sony, Microsoft and developers might want it because of the already established user base.

 

[Venom.]

Will every PS5 and Nextbox game also have to function with PS4 Pro and XBOX?

Stop trying to make X.B.O.X happen!

 

[KOHIPEET]

They'll do whatever you want just please stop using the phrase "Nextbox" it freaks me the f out.

Spoiler

I can't be the only one right?

On topic: I don't think it'll be backwards compatible, but given they'll likely stick with the x86 architecture, it's not entirely unlikely.

 

[Renekton]

Yes. By 2020-2021 the S will be 7 years old. They can easily out spec and out price the PS5 and still have the X for the budget model, while stop supporting the weaker S.

I mean right?

One word: Jaguar

 

[Chobel]

Forward compatibility is not happening, that dream was dead the second Pro/X revealed to have Jaguar CPU.

He moans about everything, though!

Oh you don't trust Matt? How about this guy http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1394736

 

[jobrro]

I can't see it happening.

Assuming 7 year generational cycles that means devs will basically be supporting enhanced 10+ year old hardware for more than have the PS5 generation

Can you image if a PS3 Pro came out with 1GB RAM and approximately twice the GPU power of the original, and then games still had to run on that now? Obviously we had a architecture change from the Cell as well which makes this impossible but discounting that it's in the same ballpark.

Even the Xbox One X sticks with the Jaguar processors which is fine for a mid-gen upgrade but in 2020/21 it would make no sense to limit a new console's games to them.

Also look at the names PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. There are named like that for a reason sticking with the base name but adding something to it. This allows them to easily differentiate the next consoles from the current base/boosted SKUs in terms of marketing.

Hoping for backwards compatibility though. If MS can run Xbox 360 games on the Xbox One there is no reason they can't run Xbone games on the Xbox Whatevercomesafteroneandthreesixty. Little concerned about Sony in this regards though, they can't even be bothered putting PS1 games on the PS4 and the PS1 was emulatable on the Sega Dreamcast (with increased internal resolution to boot). Sony's PS2 collection on the PS4 is also far from ideal and incredibly disappointing.

 

[tiredheadcrab]

This could be up to the developer. Most games in the begging of the Gen are cross gen. So it might be for some games but not all. Games like CoD or Battlefield or Destiny might be, but then we had games like Arkham Knight which could only run on Xbox one and PS4.

It could be a mixed bag tbh.

 

[The God]

This honestly doesn't make any sense.

It would mean that PS5 and NextBox games wouldn't be truly next gen if they're still able to run on old machines.

There won't be a "next gen" that's why they made Pro and One X

 

[Okami Haundo]

I'm sure they'll be the normal generational crossover, but I honestly don't know if it'll be "every" game. I certainly don't see Sony taking that approach, but Microsoft could probably go either way.

 

[AyraSutoraifu]

This.

But also I can't believe Sony would hand it over to MS that way. It would be too easy. Starting from scratch this day and age is a sure way to loose marketshare.

Eventually XboX will be the base model and NeXtBox will be the premium.

In real life, thus i mean outside Neogaf, people give a rat's ass about back- and forward compatibility. I asked a bunch of people the other day about it; "I just want to play (modern) games".

Sony needs only two things to maintain their current marketshare, outside of us and uk:
1) Launch console first or simultaneously with competitor
2) Competitive price