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[OrbitalBeard]

It's sold more units in pre-order than 8 months of the Pro. How is that not an indicator of performance?

You're comparing purchased units to pre-orders with no money down. It's actually a horrible comparison.

Again, that's not to say it won't have a great launch. I fully expect it to.

 

[Seganomics]

Understood. So GAF's definition of DOA is selling way better than expected in pre-orders and selling out of stock reserves in a very short period of time.

Spoiler

/s

You see why some people just get angry at how these discussions go?

I agree there's usually a discrepancy with how news like this would probably be treated if it was a Sony announcement. If the news broke that Sony had witnessed an incredible response for PS4Pro then that thread would probably be minus the in-depth take from Liabe Brave of why we should take the news with a pinch of salt.
But the fact remains that he's right in what he is saying, there's no real way to tell, MS are good at being cloudy (no pun intended) with the hard facts.
Just wait for the moment X1X is a resounding success and then shout it from the rooftops.

 

[leeh]

Dude, it hasn't sold a single unit. These are pre-orders. If you want to make this stupid comparison, use PS4 Pro pre-order numbers.

You might want to cool your jets a bit before claiming this thing a sales success based on commitment-free pre-order numbers, lol.

I'm convinced sales will be great at launch. The Xbox enthusiast crowd has built up substantial pent-up demand for new hardware. But beyond that I think it could be a really tough sell to the larger audience. Regular Xbox One sales have been dropping continuously and I doubt this consumer apathy is something that a 500$ hardware refresh is going to solve. It's certainly not just the hardware that is causing this decline.

Hence why Microsoft should be revitalizing the brand with more than just hardware. They also desperately need hallmark AAA games that can't be played anywhere else that dominate the conversation. Right now their current franchises are just nog generating that kind of buzz.

Downplaying begins by the regulars I see.

Are all these orders going to be cancelled then and suddenly there will be plenty of stock before it gets dispatched?

No that won't be the case, it will be sold out.

So, you can say "oh they're commitment free it doesn't count" all you want, but it will be sold out all the way up to launch, so your argument goes through the window.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Downplaying begins by the regulars. How am I not surprised?

Are all these orders going to be cancelled then and suddenly there will be plenty of stock before it gets dispatched?

No that won't be the case, it will be sold out.

Do you just not read or what? I expect launch sales to be great, I just don't think pre-orders is in any way a good measuring stick for a console being a success or a flop in the marketplace. Pre-orders were always going to sell out for this thing, name me a recent console where that did not happen.

And yeah, the pre-orders being commitment-free is probably what boosted the rate of them getting ordered in the first place.

 

[Dahaka]

man, hopefully there will be trade-in deals but given how the normal Xbox One got "devalued" over time with plenty of deals and the S I doubt it.

Would be great though.

 

[oti]

Downplaying begins by the regulars I see.

Are all these orders going to be cancelled then and suddenly there will be plenty of stock before it gets dispatched?

No that won't be the case, it will be sold out.

So, you can say "oh they're commitment free it doesn't count" all you want, but it will be sold out all the way up to launch, so your argument goes through the window.

Why am I wasting my time.

 

[odhiex]

I am a PS4 owner (fan) and I am very happy with the console. I also own a PS Vita.

I think that the success of Nintendo (Switch) and Microsoft (XBOX One X) is good news for the Industry.

I would probably getting a Switch by next year and would build a gaming PC sometimes in the future. I was into PC gaming during my college years, can't wait to put hours upon strategy and simulation games.

I still think the XBOX One X a cool hardware, I am tempted to get one if I have a 4K TV but probably a PC would do fine for me.

 

[Colbert]

I think people have to come down a little bit.

The info given is telling us that there is interest for the console beyond what was expected by the media/analysts and their predictions of success and MS. Despite how MS itself sometimes shot in their own foot while trying to marketing the console to us.

But nowhere can you derive any sales number from it for the US or anywhere else in the world. You also cannot proclaim how sales will evolve after release. You also cannot compare the sales between Xbox One X and the PS4 Pro because cirsumstances and available info on time frames are totally different.

That said:
We as gamers should celebrate the info at hand because a strong competition is good for us consumers and the more people own the console the more devs will actually invest into 4K or other game modes. Its beneficial to all mid-cycle refresh consoles not just Xbox One X as the install base gets larger in general for those type of consoles.

I never was able to get the stance of some to wish a new game or new console bad sales numbers and I am really disappointed about some comments I saw in this thread.

 

[leeh]

Why am I wasting my time.

Do you just not read or what? I expect launch sales to be great, I just don't think pre-orders is in any way a good measuring stick for a console being a success or a flop in the marketplace. Pre-orders were always going to sell out for this thing, name me a recent console where that did not happen.

And yeah, the pre-orders being commitment-free is probably what boosted the rate of them getting ordered in the first place.

Both do yourself a favor and read said thread and realise why I said it's embarrassing.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Downplaying begins by the regulars I see.

Are all these orders going to be cancelled then and suddenly there will be plenty of stock before it gets dispatched?

No that won't be the case, it will be sold out.

So, you can say "oh they're commitment free it doesn't count" all you want, but it will be sold out all the way up to launch, so your argument goes through the window.

I mean, do you realize that every piece of modern hardware sells out of its pre-order allotment at launch? The XB1X will likely do close to a million in NA alone this November, maybe more. That doesn't mean the console will be a hit or a flop. It means almost nothing. You're always going to get the hardcore fans of your brand on board at launch.

If someone says "DOA", they're rarely talking about launch numbers and if they are, yeah, I agree that's really stupid.

 

[Fredrik]

I think also good pre orders and hopefully continued success post launch would mean that it'll be well supported in terms of features and upgrades for games...and maybe that'll translate to good PC versions for the Play Anywhere titles, rather than straight ports.

Does feel weirdly surprising that the XoX's pre orders on Amazon outstrip the Pro...but then I remember the Pro isn't exactly the big seller that the vanilla PS4 is. I'm pretty interested in the XoX but games like Scalebound being cancelled have soured me on some exclusives and I don't want to spend £450 for a temporary BC machine.

That would be awesome! I love Play Anywhere, smoothly going from slouching in the couch to sitting by the desk without hassle has been really great for me, I use it all the time for Gears 4 and FH3. I really hope MS can somehow convince third party devs to go that route too.

 

[watdaeff4]

Dude, it hasn't sold a single unit. These are pre-orders. If you want to make this stupid comparison, use PS4 Pro pre-order numbers.

I stated earlier - if we really want to compare Pro vs. XbX sales - IMO - need to wait until Jan. and see what Pro sales of Nov/Dec 2016 vs. X sales of Nov/Dec 2017 were. (though we will never get those numbers)

I think people have to come down a little bit.

The info given is telling us is that there is interest for the console beyond what was expected by the media/analysts and their predictions of success and MS. Despite how MS itself sometimes shot in their own foot while tying to marketing the console to us.

But nowhere can you derive any sales number from it for the US or anywhere else in the world. You also cannot proclaim how sales will evolve after release. You also cannot compare the sales between Xbox One X and the PS4 Pro because cirsumstances and available info on time frames are totally different.

That said:
We as gamers should celebrate the info at hand because a strong competition is good for us consumers and the more people own the console the more devs will actually invest into 4K or other game modes. Its beneficial to all mid-cycle refresh consoles not just Xbox One X as the install base gets larger in general for those type of consoles.

I never was able to get the stance of some to wish a new game or new console bad sales numbers and I am really disappointed about some comments I saw in this thread.

Great post.

 

[Liabe Brave]

Are all these orders going to be cancelled then and suddenly there will be plenty of stock before it gets dispatched?

No that won't be the case, it will be sold out.

Why do you think you can guarantee that Microsoft will not be able to supply enough stock? They supplied enough stock of One S for it not to sell out. They supplied enough stock of the original Xbox One for it not to sell out, and that was with huge, record-breaking demand.

I think One X will do very well, but your certainty that Microsoft's supply chain will fail is presumptuous and unwarranted.

 

[Hanmik]

this is a stat for Amazon US? so this is only for the US?

how many PS4´s did Sony sell in the US during 2017?
20% of those should be Pro´s according to Sony?
isn't that how we get the number?

 

[Christocolus]

I think people have to come down a little bit.

The info given is telling us is that there is interest for the console beyond what was expected by the media/analysts and their predictions of success and MS. Despite how MS itself sometimes shot in their own foot while tying to marketing the console to us.

But nowhere can you derive any sales number from it for the US or anywhere else in the world. You also cannot proclaim how sales will evolve after release. You also cannot compare the sales between Xbox One X and the PS4 Pro because cirsumstances and available info on time frames are totally different.

That said:
We as gamers should celebrate the info at hand because a strong competition is good for us consumers and the more people own the console the more devs will actually invest into 4K or other game modes. Its beneficial to all mid-cycle refresh consoles not just Xbox One X as the install base gets larger in general for those type of consoles.

I never was able to get the stance of some to wish a new game or new console bad sales numbers and I am really disappointed about some comments I saw in this thread.

.

 

[wapplew]

I'm convinced sales will be great at launch. The Xbox enthusiast crowd has built up substantial pent-up demand for new hardware. But beyond that I think it could be a really tough sell to the larger audience. Regular Xbox One sales have been dropping continuously and I doubt this consumer apathy is something that a 500$ hardware refresh is going to solve. It's certainly not just the hardware that is causing this decline.

Hence why Microsoft should be revitalizing the brand with more than just hardware. They also desperately need hallmark AAA games that can't be played anywhere else that dominate the conversation. Right now their current franchises are just nog generating that kind of buzz.

Which is why MS 2017 line up is clever.
Why add anymore hype with software when the console alone generate enough hype to sell every unit they able to produce in the holiday?
Now they have stacked 2018, enough to maintain all the momentum into E3 where MS can announce next wave of software to continue the hype.

 

[leeh]

I mean, do you realize that every piece of modern hardware sells out of its pre-order allotment at launch? The XB1X will likely do close to a million in NA alone this November, maybe more. That doesn't mean the console will be a hit or a flop. It means almost nothing. You're always going to get the hardcore fans of your brand on board at launch.

If someone says "DOA", they're rarely talking about launch numbers and if they are, yeah, I agree that's really stupid.

I'm not saying that this is all the indicator we need that it will be a success, but what I'm saying this is a clear indication it will be a good selling console considering it's beat their own expectations and sold out in major retailers in a day in the UK.

That's why I said the E3 price thread is embarrassing, and it is. It's not a flop is it.

 

[Risk Breaker]

Wouldn't it make more sense to compare full year sales? I'm not sure a substantial amount of pre-orders will be done from now until launch, and then there will be the holidays where price is usually even more important than during the rest of the year.

 

[Dynomutt]

Just cross reference the posters in here with whether they have posted in the NPD or previous sales threads. If not they probably don't know what they're talking about and I would take it with a mug of salt. OrbitalBeard and Liabe Brave are the only two dropping knowledge. I'm not a big sales guy I lurk but their info is top notch and opinions appreciated. Just look at all the junior tags and recent post history.

The console will do fine this thread is getting petty. If anything it's making it seem like Xbox fans have been waiting to brag about an power injustice that they never got over and PS fans are feeling like they will lose something when the X arrives. All your consoles and games will still be there so chill out.

If sales are really important just wait for Mr. Piscatella to give some extrapolated info he's probably one of the few who can speak from a place of actual understanding.

 

[gtj1092]

Understood. So GAF's definition of DOA is selling way better than expected in pre-orders and selling out of stock reserves in a very short period of time.

Spoiler

/s

You see why some people just get angry at how these discussions go?

Did you not just see this play out with the Kinect X1 launch then the X1S launch. Great holiday launches then sales that quickly fizzled.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

I'm not saying that this is all the indicator we need that it will be a success, but what I'm saying this is a clear indication it will be a good selling console considering it's beat their own expectations and sold out in major retailers in a day in the UK.

That's why I said the E3 price thread is embarrassing, and it is. It's not a flop is it.

But everything you said applied to Wii U pre-orders as well.

I'm telling you, it doesn't indicate much of anything, other than the fact that yes, the launch month will be a success for MS.

It's very possible the X goes into 2018 strong and has a great year, but we can't gleam that from the info we have right now.

I think some reactions from E3 were way over the top, but I also believe that $500 is going to be a real struggle for MS beyond 2017. But we'll see.

 

[leeh]

But everything you said applied to Wii U pre-orders as well.

I'm telling you, it doesn't indicate much of anything, other than the fact that yes, the launch month will be a success for MS.

It's very possible the X goes into 2018 strong and has a great year, but we can't gleam that from the info we have right now.

I think some reactions from E3 were way over the top, but I also believe that $500 is going to be a real struggle for MS beyond 2017. But we'll see.

That's all I said and meant.

I understand about pre-orders, but that's not what I was on about but ensue the green quote wall of people trying to argue why I'm wrong and it will be DOA.

 

[Liabe Brave]

how many PS4´s did Sony sell in the US during 2017?
20% of those should be Pro´s according to Sony?
isn't that how we get the number?

They sold ~2m through July, which would put 20% at about 425k right now. There are various reasons why this estimate could end up being off by a lot, though; Colbert's assessment that it's definitely good news but doesn't equate to any specific number is a good takeaway.

The XB1X will likely do close to a million in NA alone this November, maybe more.

You expect One X to outsell One S by 2:1 or more? I think it'll do much better than Pro versus standard, but I can't see it being to that level.

 

[watdaeff4]

I also believe that $500 is going to be a real struggle for MS beyond 2017. But we'll see.

I agree. Combined with how Xbox sales have done in the first half of 2016 (pre-S launch) and 2017 (pre-X launch)

The only historical info from this gen that gives me a slight amount of pause is that the Elite controller sold a lot better than I thought it would.

Spoiler

I bought one

I mean it is valid to question MS pricing strategies (i.e. still scratching my head on the $400 new Minecraft console), but it's quite possible they have the analytical info to show they can (and possible already are) make more profit in the short- to mid-term, not by increasing their marketshare of the console space, but by getting more $$ per user. THeir focus on GaaS model plays into that as well.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

You expect One X to outsell One S by 2:1 or more? I think it'll do much better than Pro versus standard, but I can't see it being to that level.

I'm not sure what the S sold during its launch month, but yes, I think the X will do much better. A million might be a bit too optimistic, but I also don't think it's unattainable.

By the way, I should clarify. I mean a million Xbox sales period in November. Both the S and X. I didn't make that very clear earlier. I think the bulk of those will be X sales though.

I think November is going to be a huge month for Xbox, but I'm not so sure how things will carry forward beyond that month and December.

 

[oti]

I stated earlier - if we really want to compare Pro vs. XbX sales - IMO - need to wait until Jan. and see what Pro sales of Nov/Dec 2016 vs. X sales of Nov/Dec 2017 were. (though we will never get those numbers)

Great post.

People should take this news as the fact that it is. Xbox X is outpacing the best-selling PS4 Pro SKU on Amazon US YTD 2017. That's all there is to this. To jump from that to the conclusions we're seeing here shows some people don't know what any of this means.

People can use the first three months or the first holiday season of sales to compare PS4 Pro and Xbox X if they want to. Not this. We've done pre-orders many times before and some people should know better.

 

[watdaeff4]

People should take this news as the fact that it is. Xbox X is outpacing the best-selling PS4 Pro SKU on Amazon US YTD 2017. That's all there is to this. To jump from that to the conclusions we're seeing here, shows some people don't know what any of this means.

People can use the first three months or the first holiday season of sales to compare PS4 Pro and Xbox X if they want to. Not this. We've done pre-orders many times before and some people should know better.

Agreed.

 

[Leyasu]

Which is why MS 2017 line up is clever.
Why add anymore hype with software when the console alone generate enough hype to sell every unit they able to produce in the holiday?
Now they have stacked 2018, enough to maintain all the momentum into E3 where MS can announce next wave of software to continue the hype.

This comment will be torn apart.

But yeah it is one way of looking at it.

I think that they will price drop it in the spring. And give the early adopters their next GaaS title. At least that way, they can recoup some money through the inevitable loot boxes.

 

[watdaeff4]

This comment will be torn apart.

Wapplew.

 

[Leyasu]

Wapplew.

??
Sometimes, the posters name is irrelevant. It's the content that matters.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Hardly surprising, the thirst for a better Xbox has been real since Nov 2013 lol.

I would be amazed if MS doesn't expect to sell at least 2 million of these worldwide through November and December, including pre orders. Most of the hardcore Xbox fans will be getting one.

It's next year where it will struggle because of the price. But my guess is it will be buyable, unofficially at least, for $400 by next summer at the latest. And if games like Red Dead 2 significantly favour the Scorpio they can keep a bit of momentum. Plus PUBG hype.

 

[leeh]

??
Sometimes, the posters name is irrelevant. It's the content that matters.

The guy constantly trolls.

 

[watdaeff4]

??
Sometimes, the posters name is irrelevant. It's the content that matters.

This is his favorite retailer

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Which is why MS 2017 line up is clever.
Why add anymore hype with software when the console alone generate enough hype to sell every unit they able to produce in the holiday?

Oh honey.

 

[Filthy Casual]

Hardcore Xbox guys will lap this up so I'm not surprised to see high preorders. Still expect it to be sitting on shelves not moving at retail though.

 

[Leyasu]

The guy constantly trolls.

Lol. Ok, I thought that I recognised the name.

Still, posts like that are like tapping on a hornets nest.

 

[The Jason]

People should take this news as the fact that it is. Xbox X is outpacing the best-selling PS4 Pro SKU on Amazon US YTD 2017. That's all there is to this. To jump from that to the conclusions we're seeing here shows some people don't know what any of this means.

People can use the first three months or the first holiday season of sales to compare PS4 Pro and Xbox X if they want to. Not this. We've done pre-orders many times before and some people should know better.

Again, saying "best selling" means that people have paid for it.

Post should say Xbox X unpaid pre-orders are outpacing the best-selling PS4 Pro SKU on Amazon US YTD 2017.

 

[watdaeff4]

Lol. Ok, I thought that I recognised the name.

Still, posts like that are like tapping on a hornets nest.

If it does, that's what's sad and what was discussed ad nauseum (myself included) in another thread and what Colbert touched on in this thread.

All he did was make a post showing enthusiasm towards a product. He made no comment that compared it the a competitor or threw shade at any other product.

 

[Colbert]

This comment will be torn apart.

But yeah it is one way of looking at it.

I think that they will price drop it in the spring. And give the early adopters their next GaaS title. At least that way, they can recoup some money through the inevitable loot boxes.

From a business owner marketing standpoint it could be a valid strategy to focus available budgets to different selling points at different points in time to have a ongoing and uninterrupted story/narrative.

But I doubt it was initially planned this way as the release schedule has really taken some hits. What they do now is to play the strength of the technical aspects as good as they can and support it by showcase titles like RotTR, GoW3 or the coming FM7 or AC:O (which by the way will blow your minds if not already).

 

[Liabe Brave]

By the way, I should clarify. I mean a million Xbox sales period in November. Both the S and X. I didn't make that very clear earlier. I think the bulk of those will be X sales though.

Thanks for the clarification. In that case, I think you're underestimating. I definitely expect well over a million for Xbox in November, more like 1.5m. But about 65/35 split with S over X, not the other way around.

 

[oti]

Again, saying "best selling" means that people have paid for it.

Post should say Xbox X unpaid pre-orders are outpacing the best-selling PS4 Pro SKU on Amazon US YTD 2017.

Isn't that just the lingo Amazon uses?

 

[chromatic9]

For amazon UK 2017 so far

SWITCH #6
PS4 #19
XBOX ONE X #43
PS4 PRO #61
SONY PSVR #70
XBOX ONE S #81

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestsellers/2017/videogames#1

Xbox S doing pretty shite

 

[jon bones]

You guys really love Timdog, a guy who prefers Xbox, really drives some of you to go nuts-so.

corporate fanboyism makes grown men act like complete ass hats

its hilarious

 

[The Jason]

Isn't that just the lingo Amazon uses?

The PS4 Pro is out, so it means sold. The pre-orders are unpaid.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

this is a stat for Amazon US? so this is only for the US?

how many PS4´s did Sony sell in the US during 2017?
20% of those should be Pro´s according to Sony?
isn't that how we get the number?

PS4's YTD is ~2mn units in the US, so as I mentioned earlier you can derive approx. (!) 400k PS4 Pro sold in the US so far this year from that.

A minor part of that was sold by amazon US, and XOX beat the 2017 YTD number of the best selling PS4 Pro SKU on amazon.

This is what we know. No need to downplay it, no need for wet world domination dreams, either.

For amazon UK 2017 so far

SWITCH #6
PS4 #19
XBOX ONE X #43
PS4 PRO #61
SONY PSVR #70
XBOX ONE S #81

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/bestsellers/2017/videogames#1

Xbox S doing pretty shite

Again, you're only showing the best selling SKUs. It sure helps if there's only one SKU available, but of course there are several ones, incl. different bundles which were only temporary available. There's no way in hell that PSVR has outsold XBOX One S this year.

Not saying XBOX One S is doing that great eiter - it doesn't, but we know that from leaked NPD numbers, not amazon charts.

 

[Clear]

Probably been noted elsewhere but that pic shows a single PS4 Pro sku, bare-bones, no pack-in, no bundles, which I highly doubt is the only PS4 Pro package on Amazon. So its hardly a 1:1 comparison in terms of sales volume.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

Thanks for the clarification. In that case, I think you're underestimating. I definitely expect well over a million for Xbox in November, more like 1.5m. But about 65/35 split with S over X, not the other way around.

Man, that would be huge. I'd love to see that.

It'd be great if all three consoles (Switch, XB1, PS4) sold over a million in November.

 

[oti]

The PS4 Pro is out, so it means sold. The pre-orders are unpaid.

I know. Amazon just says "bestseller" for their list, including pre-orders. That's what I mean. Of course Xbox X hasn't sold a single unit yet.

 

[The Jason]

I know. Amazon just says "bestseller" for their list, including pre-orders. That's what I mean. Of course Xbox X hasn't sold a single unit yet.

Right but you used the term best selling when referring to the PS4 Pro, so I was just clarifying that in that context it means that the PS4 Pro has actually been paid for and sold, unlike the X.

Glad we agree

 

[Savantcore]

Probably been noted elsewhere but that pic shows a single PS4 Pro sku, bare-bones, no pack-in, no bundles, which I highly doubt is the only PS4 Pro package on Amazon. So its hardly a 1:1 comparison in terms of sales volume.

Good point, although Amazon doesn't show each individual bundle on their charts. So on Amazon UK, PS4 Pro is sat at 61 on its own, but when you click on the product page there's 10 bundles or so. Maybe it aggregates the lot and works out the chart that way.