Roflmao. Talk about bad hot takes.
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Winter Anime 2017 |OT| John Wick cleaning up KyoAni's mess
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Roflmao. Talk about bad hot takes.
NaDannMaGoGo
Member
Was that in regards to the 'looker' remark or am I not getting something.
I also want to dispute your claims concerning Mob Psycho but, other than arguing that Reigen was pretty great half the time and the issues not affected the show overall too much, I really can't deny that Reigen imploring Mob to run away at some scenes towards the end of the show was really fucking stupid. Like, considering the situation at hand, it was completely illogical for Mob to not fight back and rescue himself, his brother and friends. Reigen holding some holier-than-thou talk when the others fought for their lives was quite s.th.
I hope that kind of bullshit never resurfaces.
GoldCrusader
Member
I'm all about the emotions ducky. What can I say? Mob just did not do it for me on that matter.
Is there much of a reason we need to compare Mob and OPM to such an extent other than them having the same author?
I mean, the discussion is interesting so I wouldn't want to stop it, but they are very different shows once you get past the reused gimmick of "powerful character not taken seriously". One is purely a comedy show where any drama only exists to compliment the inevitable boring joke that the series builds itself on, and the other is a standard abstraction of social isolation through magic powers story (albeit one done really well). They have different settings, characters, art styles, animation studios, pretty much everything besides the author. And yet they're constantly compared with an attempt to push one as being better than the other, but what one show focuses on and succeeds at is not the same as what the other focuses on and succeeds at.
I mean, the discussion is interesting so I wouldn't want to stop it, but they are very different shows once you get past the reused gimmick of "powerful character not taken seriously". One is purely a comedy show where any drama only exists to compliment the inevitable boring joke that the series builds itself on, and the other is a standard abstraction of social isolation through magic powers story (albeit one done really well). They have different settings, characters, art styles, animation studios, pretty much everything besides the author. And yet they're constantly compared with an attempt to push one as being better than the other, but what one show focuses on and succeeds at is not the same as what the other focuses on and succeeds at.
Jex
Member
Yes, but what if one is good and the other is bad?
SliceSabre
Banned
But Mob and OPM are both bad.
You should be watching good anime like Kemono Friends instead.
You should be watching good anime like Kemono Friends instead.
PdotMichael
Banned
Makes me wonder if they gonna reboot that online game after the anime got some attention.
Rice crackers are the best tho.
Jex
Member
This feels like the kind of interesting discussion that I would expect to see in the Mob Pyscho 100 thread shortly after the finale. Perhaps it's just taken sometime for people to finally get around to watching it? Either way, some good arguments are being made.
I don't expect, or even want to change anyone's opinion on this topic. Yet I would like to suggest some alternative arguments to the one's people have been making so far.
Obviously, the biggest problem is that the series wants to be cool and entertaining, along with having a message. The creators can't stop themselves making these fights really cool and fun and neither can I stop myself from enjoying how good they are. I guess both I and them are just flawed in that way.
However, I fundamentally disagree with the idea that the show isn't "going anywhere" with these ideas or isn't making a point. Instead, I think the way the series resolves justifies, to some extent, the nature of the action. What's happening is that the audience is being misdirected by the tone of the series. We assume, giving the nature of the arc, that we can guess the nature of the finale. If the finale of the series was some totally sick fight, like in One Punch Man, then the series would be completely betraying its ideals. However, that's not what happens. Instead, rather than violence being the solution, persuasion and talking is the key to resolving the situation.
A deus ex mechina ending would involve some kind of totally out of left field intervention to resolve the problem being faced by the characters. Instead, Reigen, a character with a widely known and often demonstrated skill set uses his speicfic skills to bring about a resolution. It's completely in keeping with our understanding of the character and his abilities.
And, of course, Reigen does give a condescending lecture. Because he has to. He is facing grown adults who believe in utter fantasy. Adults who are seriously trying to hurt small children and create an 'evil empire'. They're weak, pitiable people who certainly need a stern talking to. They get exactly what they need.
I know that a likely rebuttal would be something along the lines of "But what about psychic powers?". My response is that there's no real definition or understanding of the reach or limits of Mob's powers. They always do whatever their needed to do. That they act in the manner that they do in the finale doesn't undercut anything we know about them, because their limits and range is completely undefined.
Tenga is not a character who has a sudden change of heart. He's a character with defined traits, that over the course of the series, has a number of experiences and interactions with people and this causes him to change into someone else.
When he's introduced early on he's very much a street punk with an interest in maintaining power - this seems to be his sole goal. When he runs into someone stronger than himself he uses a (rather poorly thought out) scheme to try and defeat them.
But even nearly on that isn't all there is to him. We see from a discussion he's having with his gang-mates that he's actually paying attention in school (even though he might not be the most naturally gifted student). He also apologies to Mob for using him in scheme (even if he has trouble showing his emotions to others) . His interactions with the body improvement club (before he gets framed) show that he's interested in trying to improve himself.
Of course, the core element of Tenga's arc is that he gets framed. This act, and the resulting ostracisation that he experiences, demonstrates to him how his delinquency has made him an outcast who no-one will stand with (apart form the body improvement club who seem to him offer him shelter).
Therefore, at the end of the series, when he come face to face with those who have wronged him he understands that his prior actions (his delinquency) where partly to blame for how easily he was framed. He is therefore able to reflect maturely on what has taken place. This is the result of well illustrated character growth, not merely a sudden change of heart.
I don't expect, or even want to change anyone's opinion on this topic. Yet I would like to suggest some alternative arguments to the one's people have been making so far.
I think this is a keenly made critique of not only this series, but any work which is 'anti-violence' but which nevertheless depicts violence in a really exciting fashion. There's a lot of offenders in this category, including the majority of 'anti-war war movies'.
Obviously, the biggest problem is that the series wants to be cool and entertaining, along with having a message. The creators can't stop themselves making these fights really cool and fun and neither can I stop myself from enjoying how good they are. I guess both I and them are just flawed in that way.
However, I fundamentally disagree with the idea that the show isn't "going anywhere" with these ideas or isn't making a point. Instead, I think the way the series resolves justifies, to some extent, the nature of the action. What's happening is that the audience is being misdirected by the tone of the series. We assume, giving the nature of the arc, that we can guess the nature of the finale. If the finale of the series was some totally sick fight, like in One Punch Man, then the series would be completely betraying its ideals. However, that's not what happens. Instead, rather than violence being the solution, persuasion and talking is the key to resolving the situation.
I don't think this is a fair reading of the situation.
A deus ex mechina ending would involve some kind of totally out of left field intervention to resolve the problem being faced by the characters. Instead, Reigen, a character with a widely known and often demonstrated skill set uses his speicfic skills to bring about a resolution. It's completely in keeping with our understanding of the character and his abilities.
And, of course, Reigen does give a condescending lecture. Because he has to. He is facing grown adults who believe in utter fantasy. Adults who are seriously trying to hurt small children and create an 'evil empire'. They're weak, pitiable people who certainly need a stern talking to. They get exactly what they need.
I know that a likely rebuttal would be something along the lines of "But what about psychic powers?". My response is that there's no real definition or understanding of the reach or limits of Mob's powers. They always do whatever their needed to do. That they act in the manner that they do in the finale doesn't undercut anything we know about them, because their limits and range is completely undefined.
Now on this particular point I feel like you weren't paying very close attention to the depiction of Tenga (the delinquent).
Tenga is not a character who has a sudden change of heart. He's a character with defined traits, that over the course of the series, has a number of experiences and interactions with people and this causes him to change into someone else.
When he's introduced early on he's very much a street punk with an interest in maintaining power - this seems to be his sole goal. When he runs into someone stronger than himself he uses a (rather poorly thought out) scheme to try and defeat them.
But even nearly on that isn't all there is to him. We see from a discussion he's having with his gang-mates that he's actually paying attention in school (even though he might not be the most naturally gifted student). He also apologies to Mob for using him in scheme (even if he has trouble showing his emotions to others) . His interactions with the body improvement club (before he gets framed) show that he's interested in trying to improve himself.
Of course, the core element of Tenga's arc is that he gets framed. This act, and the resulting ostracisation that he experiences, demonstrates to him how his delinquency has made him an outcast who no-one will stand with (apart form the body improvement club who seem to him offer him shelter).
Therefore, at the end of the series, when he come face to face with those who have wronged him he understands that his prior actions (his delinquency) where partly to blame for how easily he was framed. He is therefore able to reflect maturely on what has taken place. This is the result of well illustrated character growth, not merely a sudden change of heart.
MikeHattsu
Member
NaDannMaGoGo
Member
Oh yeh, right.
PdotMichael
Banned
New avatar image?
It's like 10PM in Tokio, time to visit some Tonkatsu DJ Agetaro places!
NeonZ
Member
I think they could actually go after another developer if it seems like this popularity surge isn't just going to vanish in a couple of weeks. Nexon wasn't part of Kemono Friends' production committee, just a contracted developer.
New avatar image?
I'll consider it for a summer alternative.
Dedication Through Light
Member
Dedication Through Light
Member
Will it be anime or live action?
GoldCrusader
Member
Oh nice! Based on that art it seems it's going to focus on Dazai and Gravity guy. Will it be about their past? They were supposed to be a pretty big duo.
MikeHattsu
Member
It's time for bed because we're leaving in the morning.
Dedication Through Light
Member
Monster Hunter Stories Ride On Episode 18 Welcome to Gildegaran
Seeing Lute all worried over Cheval again and the situation, I hope things can get better for everyone's confidence.
Seeing Lute all worried over Cheval again and the situation
, I hope things can get better for everyone's confidence.I really enjoyed Mob Psycho 100 but I just have to tip my hat towards One Punch Man more, the feeling of reaching the top and isolation once you have no goals to further your life and the crippling depression was interesting enough for me to be sympathetic towards Saitama, coupled that with the emotional high point of episode 9
And I'm not really sure if the show really is such a one note in it's gag routine but I'll have to rewatch it. There's definitely a bit of reliance on Saitama being a walking god like Trigun does with Vash is a goofball who just knows how to win and end up looking like an idiot. But the exchanges he has with Genos (Who's oblivious nature is matched by his Saitama) Tatsumaki's outbursts, the random reaction faces Saitama has through out the series and the constant poking of shonen tropes made the humour stay fresh with me. I'll definitely have to give it a rewatch though.
The music is also absolutely fantastic too, leave it running on from time to time in the background. Not that I don't like Mob's music but it's not something I'd want to listen to over The Cyborg Fights or the more melancholy rendition of the main theme but it works really well within the series. I'll admit I just can't remember many tracks from Mob, so I might need a refresher on that. Still, two fantastic shows and I feel they'll hit off with people for two very reasons.
that gives you Mumen Rider's speech followed by Saitama taking the fall for the other heroes was on of my favourite episodes that season, never fails to get me a little teary eyed. What can I say, tragic heroes are always a plus for me.
And I'm not really sure if the show really is such a one note in it's gag routine but I'll have to rewatch it. There's definitely a bit of reliance on Saitama being a walking god like Trigun does with Vash is a goofball who just knows how to win and end up looking like an idiot. But the exchanges he has with Genos (Who's oblivious nature is matched by his Saitama) Tatsumaki's outbursts, the random reaction faces Saitama has through out the series and the constant poking of shonen tropes made the humour stay fresh with me. I'll definitely have to give it a rewatch though.
The music is also absolutely fantastic too, leave it running on from time to time in the background. Not that I don't like Mob's music but it's not something I'd want to listen to over The Cyborg Fights or the more melancholy rendition of the main theme but it works really well within the series. I'll admit I just can't remember many tracks from Mob, so I might need a refresher on that. Still, two fantastic shows and I feel they'll hit off with people for two very reasons.
Cornbread78
Member
Dude. Don't get DTL going.. I'm like 1 of 2 people actually watching it and it's just... no.no.no.
I was actually watching it while it aired however I needed to gather my thoughts on what exactly was bothering me. I was still not as articulate as I'd like to be but I think the point I tried to make got through somehow. I was only hoping someone with a better insight would give a clearer perspective.
Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed those fight sequences too. It's just the switch to its core narrative during its peak that turned me off. It's the adrenaline fuelled equivalent of being (for the lack of a better word) blue balled. Again, I don't mind it if it is intended but what followed was Reigen's condescending speech which in itself was appropriate but in the context of a final battle (w̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶a̶c̶t̶u̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶b̶a̶t̶t̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶m̶
, it just didn't feel right. In the end, how does one deal with people who chose the path of violence and refuse to listen to reason? those are the questions the show tackles but the answers are not clear at all. Reigen is lecturing but he is still resorting to some degree of violence, so is that alright? i.e. if there's no choice but to do that. What's conflicting is that, just moments earlier we see him sternly warning Mob not to do the exact same thing. Is it okay if he does it but not Mob?It's okay if the show is trying to be cool and entertaining while also trying to deliver a message but the issue MP100 was that its message was conflicting with the presentation.
but that's exactly what it was, in context of psychic powers:
At no point in the show are we given an impression of the idea of transference of psychic power - while it doesn't exactly have to be that, I don't recall such a characteristic being implied, even in case of Mob's younger brother, the powers erupted out of him despite him growing up under the same house as Mob for years. It was always touted to be an inherent/grown quality much like any other skill a person might have. That moment was peculiar enough to stand out but correct me if I'm wrong.
In hindsight, yes, I don't think I should've used the word "sudden", I remember I had this discussion regarding Tenga with another friend who pointed out the same thing but I can't help but feel that Tenga's transformation to a point of open self-critique took me in by surprise.
All Out 19
A real match, opposing team is stronger without Renpai even. Gion even got his first try.
Tiger Mask W19
Cautiously building hype for a Tiger vs Tiger match. Contrast with Naoto and Takuma is pretty strong in this episode as well.
Dragon Ball Super 79
Somewhat heartwarming seeing the supreme kai cheering for Buu. Is Goku's son strong? Nope, he's just mediocre.
Lion King Tournament in March 18
Mouse Land seems like a place Narags go to bully mice and children.
A real match, opposing team is stronger without Renpai even. Gion even got his first try.
Tiger Mask W19
Cautiously building hype for a Tiger vs Tiger match. Contrast with Naoto and Takuma is pretty strong in this episode as well.
Dragon Ball Super 79
Somewhat heartwarming seeing the supreme kai cheering for Buu. Is Goku's son strong? Nope, he's just mediocre.
Lion King Tournament in March 18
Words can drown a person. Can someone also tell Rei to turn off the watertap please?
Mouse Land seems like a place Narags go to bully mice and children.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Im surprised on the opinions on mob, I'm not surprised on those of OPM. When it won AOTY it wasn't without folks stating they didn't like it throughout its run. Which also showcasds the difference between Oscar bait and a marvel movie in a popular choice award I guess.
Edit:to clarify I'm not calling mp100 Oscar bait. Just saying that what critics/fans with more refined tastes want vs what general audiences like won't coincide.
Edit:to clarify I'm not calling mp100 Oscar bait. Just saying that what critics/fans with more refined tastes want vs what general audiences like won't coincide.
Dedication Through Light
Member
But Hand Shakers looks better than Mob Psycho 100. The modern character design and settings and flashy attacks both on land and air with a 360 degree camera angle make it feel good and comfortable. Mob Psycho looked bad by comparison.
I think viewing Mob Psycho 100's narrative as supporting pacifism in some holier-than-thou way is completely off-base. I mean, Reigen attempts to sucker-punch one of the Claw guys. He's hot-headed and clearly not against being rough. What he is against is having Mob, a child, getting violent - especially when he has goddamn superpowers. Also, if you think it was completely illogical for Reigen to tell Mob to run away, keep in mind that he has zero psychic ability and could not sense anything Claw was doing (up to that point he thinks Mob is the only psychic and he doesn't necessarily believe in everything mob can do). Consequently, Reigen can't really be faulted for not coming up with a brilliant strategy and his only real concern is making sure Mob is ok.
Also, the series does not portray Mob's refusal to fight as a positive and healthy thing. ONE does a pretty good job at showing that Mob is pretty terrified of the damage he can cause and so has completely shut down that part of him. This is painted as a very extreme thing to do, and really Mob's entire arc is about coming to terms with his ability and reaching a healthy balance.
Also, the series does not portray Mob's refusal to fight as a positive and healthy thing. ONE does a pretty good job at showing that Mob is pretty terrified of the damage he can cause and so has completely shut down that part of him. This is painted as a very extreme thing to do, and really Mob's entire arc is about coming to terms with his ability and reaching a healthy balance.
Cornbread78
Member
Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed those fight sequences too. It's just the switch to its core narrative during its peak that turned me off. It's the adrenaline fuelled equivalent of being (for the lack of a better word) blue balled. Again, I don't mind it if it is intended but what followed was Reigen's condescending speech which in itself was appropriate but in the context of a final battle (w̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶a̶c̶t̶u̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶b̶a̶t̶t̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶m̶
Just gonna touch on this part because it's what is getting me most. The show goes of its way in the middle eps to entice the viewers with these fantastically animated sequences each time Mob explodes and how each explosion is governed by some particular emotion. They're so above and beyond what anyone else in the show is capable of that they're these frightful displays of power that should also, if you're paying close enough attention, horrify the viewer given the cost Mob pays each time it happens. We can't forget there's some terribly dark living on the fringes of Mob's subconscious that's as powerful as Mob yet held in check by the beliefs instilled in him by Reigen. If you recall, the only cast members imploring Mob to use his powers at the end were other children that had fully indulged in theirs but were able to step back from the precipice, a choice that wouldn't be available to Mob, especially if he took this final step in a world filled with people who can't help but use their powers once they learn how easy it makes certain things to do.
Something, anything, had to happen to keep Mob from doing this or the whole show would have been a wash. That's what wouldn't have felt right if it had actually occured. The transference of power isn't a big deal in a world that follows shounen logic (a power for everything) but becomes poignant as it subverts the shounen solution of the protagonist sacking up to face the enemy on their terms. This would have been impossible for Mob in this case because an explosion now would have been put him several levels higher than any of his current opposition if he truly intended to kill them. Reigen's lecturing, sure, but he's the only adult in the room at the time. The enemy are manchildren playing dress-up and once their physical gifts fail them, there's no mental fortitude that leaves them susceptible to this sort of verbal attack. That's very much in line with how Reigen fights his battles. I encourage you to check out that fight to see how very non-violent Reigen actually was. The most he does is rip off the mask of the guy in black without realizing his own current strength, sending the guy flying. He defeats the rest by outright shaming them into submission because he's mature enough to handle the situation with this power in hand, something Mob definitely is not. Reigen standing up to them isn't hypocritical either since he's Mob's guardian in the psychic world even if he's normally powerless to do anything about it. Sometimes adults have to do what they have to do to protect children. The ED succinctly illustrates Reigen's role where his daily morning routine is shown to include watching over Mob as if it was an everyday thing.
Mob didn't need an Uncle Ben moment with Reigen dying to finally teach him these lesson that with great power comes great responsibility. Mob's known that all along thanks to Reigen's guidance. Each of his previous explosions had left Mob performing impossible feats so I don't think how he reacted here is anything out of the norm when the explosions themselves are meant to illustrate how undefinable Mob's power truly is.
Not really, I don't think of its pacifism that way but that it should implicitly or explicitly establish clarity on its messages. As mentioned, is it okay to resort to violence if you have no choice? the answer is not clear. The situations that build during the later half point towards that question but I don't see a proper resolution to it.
I don't think it's illogical for Reigen to tell Mob to run away, that's a very Reigen thing to say actually but my issue was with how the final moments resolved with Reigan's involvement.
I'd add as an aside that the power in the show as defined through Mob's explosions works much better the less literally you take it - looking more at what's being expressed at that moment rather than the mechanics of whatever Mob is doing. Film and animation using action to represent conflict in a general sense isn't really uncharted territory
Well said, and I agree with everything. Just going to add that Mob went to Reigen because Mob lost control and nearly killed his brother. The trauma and terror of that happening is what makes him adhere to Reigen's rule so strictly.
Basileus777
Member
I'm not even sure what you are going for here. There's nothing happening that isn't exactly what it appears at face value.
Literally all the clues they drop are about the brother and the sister, and there's basically zero romantic stuff between the main character and the girl at this point.
That is not the main message or theme of the show though. It is only brought up as a way to show that Mob is not mentally strong enough to judiciously use his powers. Mob didn't suddenly have an epiphany and obtain inner peace because his arc is not finished, yet. Other than that, as I said, Reigen is not against violence so if you're trying to look at him for your answer to the dilemma then there you go; the show is pretty clear.
Basileus777
Member
This is a really strange reading of the show.
Jex
Member
From what you've written regarding the series so far, it would appear that you believe series is advocating for pacifistic ideals. I don't think that's the case.Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed those fight sequences too. It's just the switch to its core narrative during its peak that turned me off. It's the adrenaline fuelled equivalent of being (for the lack of a better word) blue balled. Again, I don't mind it if it is intended but what followed was Reigen's condescending speech which in itself was appropriate but in the context of a final battle (w̶h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶a̶c̶t̶u̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶b̶a̶t̶t̶l̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶m̶
What the show is advocating is that Mob, an emotionally unstable child, shouldn't be using his terrible (and apparently) limitless powers to hurt and potentially kill other people. Mob unleashing his powers is not only potentially dangerous for his opponents, but for himself. That's not a path he has to walk down and, as Reigen points out, he has alternatives available such as running away from a fight.
Mob is not an adult. He is not in control of his emotions. He's also not in complete control of his powers. For all these reasons, it makes sense for him to avoid conflicts wherever possible.
I've got a few thoughts about this:
- The idea that every major narrative event that happens in a story needs to proceeded by a Chekov's gun to set it up feels very weird to me. I don't think that's a standard that writers should held themselves to. Is it it necessary for every little thing to set up in advance? Doesn't that artificially limit creativity of the writer? What if they have a better idea later on that they never set up?
- The series never goes out of its way to explicitly lay down the rules regarding psychic powers. There's no Nen training sequence out of Hunter x Hunter, with nice clear guidelines about everything. There's consistency to how psychic powers are used within the universe, but beyond that ONE doesn't put any limits on them.
- Even if the series had made explicit rules about such matters, I think breaking them would have been worth it to achieve such a satisfying climax.
Hellwarden
Member
The latest episode of Star Wars Rebels has an incomprehensibly poorly shot fight scene.
I don't know if they lost people in transitioning from TCW to Rebels, but the people in charge of Rebels straight up don't know how to do action well.
I don't know if they lost people in transitioning from TCW to Rebels, but the people in charge of Rebels straight up don't know how to do action well.
Is "March Comes In Like a Lion" worth watching?
I don't know anything about it other than it has a cool name and poster, and the main character plays shogi or whatever.
For correct taste alignment, anime I recently liked: Mob Psycho, Ping Pong, Haikyuu, Erased.
Some of my favourite anime: Hikaru No Go, Planetes, Silver Spoon, Barakamon.
I don't know anything about it other than it has a cool name and poster, and the main character plays shogi or whatever.
For correct taste alignment, anime I recently liked: Mob Psycho, Ping Pong, Haikyuu, Erased.
Some of my favourite anime: Hikaru No Go, Planetes, Silver Spoon, Barakamon.
It has been a while since I've seen that last episode and for some reason the impression it made was something along the lines of violence on Reigen's part. I rewatched it a while ago and I must confer to that, you are correct on Reigen's attempts at thwarting the members (I struck that line after rewatching it).
I'm not really trying to imply that Mob *should* to take up his arms and fight, as much as I loved the visualizations of violence in the show, I was at one level worried about Reigen's ideologies and how that would prevent Mob from unleashing his inner being in his presence in some way, worried in the sense that it would completely drift away from its core message. I would love it if it did resolve it through non-violent means and it did but it was just not convincing enough for me. From this discussion, it's clear my problems have more to do with its representation and lore behind the psychic powers than the actual message.
Is it?
Admiral Woofington
Member
Does every Japanese Anime continue to be directed/written by people who have never had a sibling of a different gender?
Basileus777
Member
Uh yes. Bro/sister complex is a typical dumb joke about close siblings in these kinds of shows. There's nothing sexual in their relationship even hinted at and the MC and the girl are clearly romantically involved.
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