RubberJohnny
Banned
That sounds rather like Halo 2 to my ears. The whole game builds to a confrontation that just doesn't come.Kobun Heat said:
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Wired play through all of Too Human
- Thread starter RubberJohnny
- Start date
duckroll said:Well, it's true! Superman Returns went through a gazillion directors and rewrites and having actors attached on and off over many many years. But the actual film didn't take all those years to make or film. Too Human is the same way. Of course I'm sure lots of people don't want this to turn out the same way as Superman Returns......
I'm going to have to disagree somewhat. Superman Returns is sort of a bad example, because it did go through so many significant changes in terms of staff, but Dyack has been trying to get this IP running for quite some time. The concept is there; it's had 10 years of evolution. Story-wise, or gameplay wise it's been redefined. If I'm writing a script (I'm a film major, if it's relevant) and then I have to re-write everything because I didn't like how the original turned out... I still count that original, different script as part of pre-production. I don't see why we can't say 'Too Human has been in development for 10 years'. Those '3 years' on the 360 started only after several other attempts that they certainly learned from.
darkressurection
Banned
So basically it is like "Finish the Fight" all over again?Kobun Heat said:
CowboyAstronaut
Banned
duckroll said:
I agree that I'd be surprised if it wasn't story driven as well. If it isn't I'll definitely be disappointed. Also, as you said, I'm not looking forward to this game quite as much for the action gameplay as I am for the story.
I also expect certain things to be rough around the corners and that was evident even in some of the videos. Now that SK has finished this game though. I say they really work on improving their base engine further and try to make the sequel a vast improvement over the first.
The 4 player co-op was a nice thing to have, but ultimately I don't really miss it's exclusion. Although, there is no denying that it would've brought something extra to the overall package.
The human/cybernetic alignment not playing too big a part in the story, doesn't surprise me. I assume that after what will probably have taken place in this game, it will really come into focus in the next game that Baldur really needs to get stronger and the need to cybernetically enhance himself will probably be soemthing that is really getting forced into your head by some of the other gods. I assume it doesn't receive much play in the first game because they feel there were other things that were more important to touch on in this first game and I won't really know whether it was a good or bad idea until I check out the story myself.
All in all, what was said is pretty much as expected. For this game, I'm expecting a metacritic between 83-90. That seems like a safe bet to take into consideration what I assume will be the some hate it, some love it, crowd amongst reviewers.
Oh Kobun you didn't play around with the runes!? Blasphemy. That's something I'm definitely going to try to see how I can enhance my various weapons and such. I'll def be trying crafting to some degree. Even if not a lot of it. How well it's handled will depend on how much time I spend on it.
Perdew said:
Too human on PSX -> completely different type of game.
Production on the game only started again when they finished MGS TTS, and is a completely different game than the PSX one.
So no, it wasn't 10 years in development, the gameplay wasn't refined because you don't refine gameplay by writing it.
Seriously, stop with the 10 year bullshit. Or we will have to go back to when the idea of games even started in the mind of the devs, which means that many games have been in development for decades maybe.
darkressurection
Banned
Technially, you were finishing the fight in Halo 3, I am talking about how Halo 2 ended on a shitty cliffhanger.Tieno said:
mentalfloss
Banned
So SK's standard is 70% aggregate then?
CowboyAstronaut
Banned
It does seem kinda like a wtf moment though to get it snatched away from right when the game really ramps up :lol
So then it may very well come up to how good that eventual climax is and how good is the build up towards it. I'll be judging a great deal on that.
Themes of all 3 Too Human Games are as follows.
Discovery - Too Human 1
Revenge - Too Human 2
Enlightenment - Too Human 3
So I at least hope I make some interesting discoveries in the first game. Probably wont have the opportunity to really confront the source of that discovery till the second game? Who knows.
Duck I completely forgot about that. What is with the 360 and games that have been in development for "10 years" :lol
Well to counter that at least the White Engine will have been in development for twice that amount
I'm joking, I'm joking
So then it may very well come up to how good that eventual climax is and how good is the build up towards it. I'll be judging a great deal on that.
Themes of all 3 Too Human Games are as follows.
Discovery - Too Human 1
Revenge - Too Human 2
Enlightenment - Too Human 3
So I at least hope I make some interesting discoveries in the first game. Probably wont have the opportunity to really confront the source of that discovery till the second game? Who knows.
Duck I completely forgot about that. What is with the 360 and games that have been in development for "10 years" :lol
Well to counter that at least the White Engine will have been in development for twice that amount
I'm joking, I'm joking
CowboyAstronaut
Banned
I prefer to have quality or quantity especially if majority of that quantity wouldn't be good.
I say it's smart to keep the game as focused as possible. Get in get out with a really solid game. Go all out for the sequel.
I say it's smart to keep the game as focused as possible. Get in get out with a really solid game. Go all out for the sequel.
Come on..duckroll said:
Seeing how many around here consider him a liar or that he talks too much and everything, while then believe on what he said? Selective reading?
According to GAF, Dyack basically taks sh*t everytime..yet, he says that about a "complete experience" and it is the truth? Or faith?
Okay, I don't want to hear anymore shit about a 10 year dev time. Not a single post more. It is simply untrue that the game has been in development for 10 years and anyone continuing this horrible meme will be subject to the hammer.
He talks a lot of shit, and this is just another example of it if it's true. That's all I'm saying.
fernoca said:Come on..
Seeing how many around here consider him a liar or that he talks too much and everything, while then believe on what he said? Selective reading?
According to GAF, Dyack basically taks sh*t everytime..yet, he says that about a "complete experience" and it is the truth? Or faith?
He talks a lot of shit, and this is just another example of it if it's true. That's all I'm saying.
flintstryker
Banned
facepalm.gifMrHicks said:
CowboyAstronaut
Banned
duckroll said:
That's true he did say that.
One thing I always felt though is that, the game being a complete experience, knowing full well some of the other events to come, would be hard to do. There had to be some real opening for the sequel and I assume SK decided to end on a big note.
Some more from the Wired blog (really good writeup I think)
I assume that perhaps one of the most amazing musical scores comes on right as the game is ending and it really got the player anxious to continue and then it ended
So the person playing the game had a feeling something sinister was going on, but didn't really understand what it was because the game wasn't addressing it, but I assume the game had to have clearly done enough things to make him suspect that there was something more sinister afoot. Assuming by what he says, I guess what that truly was, wasn't revealed until the end, but it was being teased, perhaps, maybe through how some people in the story were acting.
Well the complete experience thing was always up in the air wasn't it? I mean how do you have each game end in a complete experience without having something big happen or something else still be a complete mystery to you. With the mythology, perhaps by complete experience, Denis must mean that they fully accomplished their theme of "discovery" for game one and felt that was the complete experience. A theme of discovery doesn't necessarily mean you get to confront that discovery. Know what I'm saying?
Theme of the second game is Revenge so that one right there should've been the red flag that something would happen at the end of game 1 that would leave Baldur wanting to get revenge. I think if Too Human 1 ended on too happy or peaceful a note then the second game would seem forced as if a sequel was never really planned. So I guess it's good to have some event that leads the player into the second game. Dyack also talked a lot about that very thing.
Saying movies or games that never intended to be trilogies from the get go always show signs of making up things as they go. So I suppose this is their way of trying to prevent that and show that all 3 games really are interconnected into one entire experience.
Kobun Heat said:
Fair enough. I was one of the ones who called you out on generally rushing through games , but to be fair, you copped to it yourself on Retronauts. Did you get a % finished after completion?
I still get the feeling that I'll get closer to 20 hours. I take my time with games like this, and I'll most definitely be fiddling with runes.
purg3 said:
Not everybody would want to play through the game 3 times to max out his or her character, the first playthrough should have enough satisfying gameplay to give the player a more complete experience. Maxing out shit is just a game mechanic, it should not be a more important reason to play the game than having a compelling campaign, the difference for a game like HALO 3 or COD4 or Uncharted is that the campaign itself is compelling with interesting set-pieces and scenarios regardless of whether the player wants to replay the game just to mess around with shit.
Have people calling Dyack arrogant read their own posts, or the tone of posts directed against the game? It's like you're trying to be hypocrites. It's perfectly possible to post negative opinions without sounding like a douchebag. Watch:
The fact that the story is such a non-factor is incredibly disappointing, especially coming from the dev of ED and Kain.
And the game shouldn't have been sold as an RPG if its story is so undeveloped, and it's length is about 15 hours.
It's easy. You don't have to try to be a Drinky Crow or drohne just because this is GAF. It's okay, really!
The fact that the story is such a non-factor is incredibly disappointing, especially coming from the dev of ED and Kain.
And the game shouldn't have been sold as an RPG if its story is so undeveloped, and it's length is about 15 hours.
It's easy. You don't have to try to be a Drinky Crow or drohne just because this is GAF. It's okay, really!
CowboyAstronaut
Banned
Tom Penny said:
That's just your opinion. I reserve my right to respectfully disagree.
Well Kittowny, that would mean that Too Human, as I think I've said many times before, really wasn't suppose to be seen as this big Diablo clone so much as it was suppose to be seen as a singleplayer story that just happens to have elements of a game like Diablo as one of it's core gameplay mechanics.
I think expanding the game for the purpose of the player being guaranteed to max their stuff out would have been a bad decision. Especially if the story truly is as set in stone as Denis has been saying it's been for the last couple years.
CowboyAstronaut
Banned
Zenith said:
Oh come on.. that's just marketing talk especially around the time when he THOUGHT everything that was promised would be delivered as sold to them by Epic.
I'm not trying to take a side, but it did seem pretty much certain that it wasn't just SK that had problems with UE3 and that they were telling the truth about the state of the engine. A whole host of games got delayed and many of them had to given practically the entire code base for Gears of War to help remedy the situation.
Based on what we saw, it does seem that SK has a case. Of course they are going to try to say the most polite thing possible publicly, but everyone has a limit.
Chris, lets use our heads on this one. Do you honestly believe that every person who picks up a copy of Too Human will finish the game in 10 hours? It's perfectly believable that a game that can be completed in 10 hours in the hands of a different player can be completed in 17 or maybe even 20. Gamers aren't well oiled machines we don't all do things at the same pace. That 17 hours is perfectly believable. It seems at this point that people are just looking for things to fake outrage over. It's one thing to be disappointed at the thought that the game might be a 10 hour game, but to instantly follow it up with a "so much for more that 17 hour to complete blog post" is ridiculous because you assume that the game can't actually be completed in 17 or more because I assure you it can.
It took me 19 hours to beat Gears of War. On my third playthrough of Mass Effect I'm more than 20 something hours in and I've only done 2 real missions. Remember the early reviews of how fast some could beat Mass Effect? Are those facts? Some beat Tales of the Abyss in 20 hours. Some took 70-80.
CowboyAstronaut said:
After so many failed comparisons, can anyone be really sure what Too Human is supposed to be anymore?
I don't think one should expand the game for the purpose of allowing the player to max out one's character, but rather provide additional interesting and fun gameplay scenarios for the player, the whole menu-driven character growth aspect should be a secondary or tertiary goal while the primary goal should be giving the player interesting and diverse things to do inside the game.
It's not like a game like Zelda would have a ton of menu-driven crap for the player to do, but what the player can do inside the game world is what captures and maintains the player's interest throughout the experience: combat, puzzles and traversal, the point for character growth would be to motivate the player to keep playing to obtain really cool skills that can apply to combat/traversal/puzzles, same with a game like Okami. It's like the plasmids in Bioshock, instead of just being "armor +50 power +15% def +10%", the actual benefits of skills should be much more tangible like fire, ice, electricity, bees, telekinesis, invisibility, etc.
Monocle
Member
Good article. I think now I finally have a sense of what Too Human actually is: a modern dungeon crawler with a few twists. I've been looking for a fun new co-op game for some time, and Too Human might turn out to be what I'm after. Ten hours seems awfully short for the kind of experience Too Human is apparently intended to provide (new game+ might--might--compensate for this. We'll have to see), and the MTV blog article's description of the gameplay mechanics left me unimpressed. As usual, I'm waiting for a demo to help me make my final call.
Francias Castiglione
Banned
Geoff9920 said:
Sounds good, is there no "apprenticeship" for lower levels teaming with higher levels? I swear I read that somewhere.
RubberJohnny
Banned
http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/19689
Can someone make an animated GIF of the part where he climbs the large mech in this?
Can someone make an animated GIF of the part where he climbs the large mech in this?
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Sounds like some are butt hurt that this game isn't turning out to be the AAA title they were promised/hoping for.
CowboyAstronaut
Banned
duckroll said:
Well, what the guys managed to do with Lost Odyssey was just downright impressive, but isn't it obvious that SK wasn't the only developer that had serious issues with the engine?
A lot of games were delayed. I know Mass Effect never had an official release date, but it was expected to be a 2006 title along with a range of others. If what SK was saying was true, a lot of things were promised and were supposed to be delivered to them at specific dates, per epic's own words, and it just never happened. I suppose SK's case is more extreme since they seemed to have really bought into UE3 as the backbone of all their development efforts?
Either way with all the companies licensing the engine, I imagine Epic had to be stretched far too thin.
Kittowny you make a fantastic point, but whose to say that other gamers wont actually have the motivation to continue building out their character based on what is provided in Too Human as we speak? Not every game will be the same. I think he said right as he was getting use to combat and story was ramping up it ended?
I'm only going to concentrate on that combat statement. That wouldn't have been the case for me. If I find the gameplay enjoyable, and it has seemed that way for me from some videos I've seen and liked, I will most definitely be going back to previous levels and getting into more fights for extra drops, loot and to level up more. One thing Denis mentioned before that a lot of people sometimes forget is that Just because you've been to an area in the game before doesn't mean that the enemy layout will be exactly what it was the last time you checked that area out. A room that was filled with all goblins can now be filled with all trolls or all ice goblins or something else entirely.
The guy, I think, also mentioned he didn't bother to backtrack at all? I think we could easily have seen 15-18 or even 20 hours out of this game if he did backtrack. If he was just getting use to the combat come close to end game and just recently crafting some stuff, I assume for the first time since he did mention he didn't really mess around much with runes and crafting (there are many runes in Too Human) then it would've been a benefit to go back to previous levels. It isn't like the enemy layout would've been the same.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
duckroll said:
I know I read reviews stating Mass Effect and Lost Odyssey had glaring technical issues, whilst the previews I've been reading are stating Too Human has none.
LiquidMetal14 said:
Have you been reading GAF as of late? Most of us awaiting it weren't expecting an AAA title (not that they even exist) and are disappointed with what one preview had to say about the narrative.
FINALFANTASYDOG
Member
duckroll said:
http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache...+silicon+knights+too+human&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1
Too human 10 years ago... fun fun.
Death_Born
Banned
So, it sounds like Silverfall with better graphics. GREAT!
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/silverfall
PS. Silverfall sucks.
http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/silverfall
PS. Silverfall sucks.