Fallout 4 is better than Metal Gear.
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Witcher 3 has won over 240 GOTY Awards so far.
- Thread starter Crossing Eden
- Start date
Fallout 4 is better than Metal Gear.
poodaddy
Member
?!? .....uh......well,.....opinions and all that.
There are many ways they could implement the pirouettes in ways that don't interrupt the flow of combat or make Geralt's movement unpredictable (finisher animations, alternate attack modes).
It's not like any other part of the combat experience is all that faithful to the "Canon Lore." Certainly not the way elixirs work, nor the signs, nor all the heavy armor Geralt wears in the game.
generic_username
I switched to an alt account to ditch my embarrassing tag so I could be an embarrassing Naughty Dog fanboy in peace. Ask me anything!
I agree with this although the poor combat did not diminish my opinion on the game being great overall. The sword feedback, the sword variety etc.. just feel subpar. The game constantly tells the player a Witcher is a great beast hunter , a bad ass with swords etc.. but I never felt empowered by the combat. The subpar combat therefore diminishes the rewards of upgrades as well because an upgrade never felt any more satisfying. Another area it was lacking in is good enemy and boss design. Most of the bosses and enemies require zero thought and strategy. Horse navigation is absolutely atrocious. Basically anything that requires me to move Geralt felt tedious and subpar.
Yet.. I was captivated by the game. The characters, the stunning visuals, the good quest design ( although the game never reaches the high of the Bloody Baron questline ) all succeeded in pulling me in. However I can understand why that is not enough for some people because ultimately all the aspects that captivated me had nothing to do with the actual moment to moment gameplay and the feeling of controlling Geralt in this world.
I can respect that it goes with the lore. My main issue is the 360 spin. Geralt iirc would sometimes 360 one way, and 360 the other way depending on how far the enemy was from you. I just don't see a good swordsman fighting like that.
The ballerina prequel duels seems like a better comparison to the ballerina Witcher swordsman ship to me. And I didn't like those either.
silvermember
Banned
Not to be rude but none of the things you see in movies and games can be considered as good swordsmanship. Saying that witcher 3 is bad is just as silly.
The ballerina prequel duels were bad because it was too choreographed. The attacks had no weight to them and they were simply going through motions.
Exentryk
Member
Animations are an integral part of combat mechanics. My point isn't unappealing animations = crap combat. The issue comes from having long-winded pirouette animations when you expect a fast attack, while other times a fast attack is a fast attack.
There are various other issues with the combat like broken hitboxes, inconsistent dodge, low number of active skills, poor progression, bugged useless skills, radial menu design choice that affects combat fluidity, etc.
Gameplay is the weakest point of Witcher 3. It is clear to me that CDPR need to overhaul their gameplay team. They need to hire experts that have deep knowledge and experience in delivering good action based melee combat systems. They need to have more focus on using a controller and design their UI, font sizes etc, with the controller and TV in mind. The shops need to have basic stuff like "how many of an item do I own?" figure somewhere. And various other things that I am not going to bother typing right now.
I give this feedback as a person that has Witcher 3 as his GOTY, and as his best RPG ever played. I want CDPR to round off their skill set by hiring a good gameplay team. I hope they will do so by the time Witcher 4 comes around.
Okay? Have you ever heard "2 wrongs don't make a right?" Other movies and games having bad swordsmanship doesn't give Witcher a pass.
In addition to attacks having no weight in the prequel fights, they had unnecessary lightsaber twirling. I don't like this for the same reason I don't like Geralt's 360 spins.
It doesn't do anything.
And just FYI. I did list the animations as a gripe, but it's not a huge one. I just decided to list all my problems with the combat, since the game's biggest haters hardly ever do, and people were asking.
texhnolyze
Banned
Geralt's 360 spin won't ever happen if you actually move closer to your enemies before pushing that attack button. It depends on the range.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
zswordsman
Member
MGSV is so desgraceful to the series that they should be taking away GOTY awards from past games.
Witcher deserves it tho. Haven't played fallout and bloodborne is fun but I guess it's not mainstream enough.
Witcher deserves it tho. Haven't played fallout and bloodborne is fun but I guess it's not mainstream enough.
That's why I love any complaints towards ballerina-esque twirling combat. That's literally how he's supposed to fight.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Not to mention in-game it's mostly used for closing distances like in that clip.
poodaddy
Member
The underlined is explained coherently and succinctly by texhnolyze in the second quote here. The italicized are fair points made moot by the fact that they were all addressed in patches. The bold are matters of subjectivity, particularly the bit about focusing on TV's and controllers as CD Projekt Red were PC developers first and I'd argue that targeting the PC demographic first would actually be more advantageous in their case in the long run; after all, credibility will take you far in this business as we all know and you don't want to alienate your original demographic as they were your first loyal fans. That leaves the point about basic UI improvements in regards to shops and the like, which I completely agree on in every capacity. Such is why I saw to those issues with mods, but I'm not saying that's an excuse for it's existence, merely a way to deal with it. I see your points, but I just see things differently. I truly enjoyed the combat in The Witcher 3 and I never once felt that it was unfair or buggy after it had been properly patched. I'm something of a Souls fanatic, so I know good combat, and to be honest I think The Witcher 3's combat complaints are generally leveled by those who expected things like invincibility frames and frame advantages; very competent mechanics that really serve to enhance the fun and versatility of games where they are properly implemented, but that's simply not the type of combat that CD Projekt Red was going for with this game. They seemed to be going for a combat that was still fantastical in nature, but also firmly rooted within the physics and limitations of the real world, which is quite in keeping with the subject matter of the books as there are many fantasy elements within the novels that are used as allegories for actual events and figures in medieval Poland. I agree that the combat didn't turn out perfect, but it's far from bad and it's above and beyond serviceable.
That being said, I think we can agree on something that really bugged me in game as I'm sure it bugged you as well, and that is how Geralt feels very heavy with how he moves, and that's honestly not at all in keeping with the lore. I love the game dearly, but I think they kind of took Geralt in a "hunky" direction in this game what with the beard, bigger build, and more "metal" looking armor, but the Geralt described in the books is a rather diminutive fellow who isn't particularly tall or muscular and certainly never wore heavy armor of any sort, and hates it when his beard grows in as is shown in the third book of the main saga when he's stuck in the woods while healing and begs Dandelion for a razor to shave this "damned beard", though he is described as intimidating in his own way but that's really due more to his face, hair, and two swords than his body or armor, but I digress. The Geralt in the books is described as having the ability to unsheathe his sword and cleave through combatants faster than the eye can see, and his pirouettes are described as genuinely terrifying as he's capable of utilizing his opponents swords to generate more momentum from a blocked blow due to his ability to rapidly shift his weight to the opposite side and spin while slashing horizontally and simultaneously dodging backwards. The sword fights in the books read as truly incredible fights that look absolutely amazing in one's imagination while reading the texts, but the game doesn't really succeed in replicating that to be honest; but in all fairness I'm not aware of how any game designer could really represent how amazing the fight sequences in the books are. The only thing that honestly comes to mind as approaching the speed and visceral nature of the fight descriptions in the books is Raiden in MGS Rising, but that takes it in the opposite direction and such fighting would be far too over the top for The Witcher. I don't know.....
Sorry about going off on a tangent there, but regardless my point here is that I wouldn't mind the combat system being much faster and more brutal feeling to better replicate the described intensity of the books, but I don't know how they'd implement this without risking going off into over the top anime fighting and making it all seem rather silly in the process. I agree with you then, in a sense, that I hope The Witcher 4 makes some crucial tweaks to the combat system and I'm very excited to see what comes of Ciri's adventure when we finally get to embark on it.
At least I hope it's Ciri.....it better be Ciri.
Exentryk
Member
A long-winded animation as a "fast-attack" shouldn't be there in the first place. Change that animation to a fast reaching lunge attack or something.
Wrong. You italicized "broken hitboxes, inconsistent dodge and bugged useless skills". Below is an example of the broken hitbox (feel free to test it in the current patch). There are many others (Cyclops' arms, Griffin's wing attacks, etc).
Regarding inconsistent dodging, try to dodge right after attacking, taking damage, casting a Sign or another dodge; you will take damage during the dodge. Again, still not fixed.
Bugged and useless abilities - Fleet Footed (says it reduces damage by 100% when dodging, yet it doesn't do that at all), Shockwave (200 damage when enemies have 50K healths), Pyromaniac (4th tier ability that needs so many points in the Sign tree that by the time you unlock it, you won't need it), Supercharged Glyphs (50 damage per second to enemies in the Yrden circle, when enemies have 25-50K health scaling up as their level increases), etc. So many useless skills.
You bolded this - "radial menu design choice that affects combat fluidity", among other stuff. Now, please pick which one of the following is more fluid:
Scenario A
1. Open Radial Menu
2. Choose a Sign
3. Close the Radial Menu
4. Cast the Sign
Scenario B
1. Cast the Sign you want instantaneously
It's not about subjectivity. Scenario B objectively makes combat more fluid.
About focussing on the controller and TV doesn't mean ignore the PC stuff completely. Those were mentioned because there are genuine issues with those. Have you tried to navigate the inventory with a controller? Some items take up two slots, while some take up one. Getting from one item to another is a game in itself.
Have you ever tried to use a decoction in a game? With all decoctions having similar looking bottles with similar colors and no text means you have to move over every single decoction reading the text until you get to the one you want.
The TV aspect was mentioned because the font sizes were/are small. The fact that the devs had to look in to this is clear indication that TV aspect wasn't considered (adequately). Even now, some text is still quite hard to read.
It doesn't matter what kind of combat CDPR wanted to make. Having technical issues like inconsistent dodges, broken hitboxes, long-winded "fast attack" animations, etc., is just not acceptable.
It's still a terrible opinion though.
This a million times over.
Truly a revolutionary RPG title that sets the standard in just about every department.
My next and only anticipated open world RPG is Horizon Zero Dawn and if they can achieve even half of what TW3 does, it'll be a triumph.
Thank goodness Guerilla poached a few CD Projekt devs
texhnolyze
Banned
Yes, just look at their previous games.
The jump from Witcher to Witcher 2 was pretty significant, then the jump to Witcher 3 is way more significant than that. After Witcher or Witcher 2 released, people wouldn't even imagine that CDPR's next game will snatch 210 GOTY awards in 2015. Can't wait for their next game(s).
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
The same lore has them somersaulting during combat and people moving at a rather slow speed for Geralt.
Lore concessions in favour of gameplay mechanics are aplenty in TW3, the over the top animations are fine imo but they aren't just in there because the books described them as such.
Witchers don't really roll away either.
Also if you want to open that discussion again there's like an 8 page thread where people talk about why the combat is bad in their opinion.
Octavianus
Banned
tryagainlater
Member
Say what you want about the combat but it really bugs me that people say the gameplay in Witcher 3 sucks when they're talking about the combat as if combat is the only thing that constitutes gameplay. Wandering around the world and talking to NPCs is gameplay and that's top notch here.
I wholeheartedly agree and at the same time am afraid that it will take a long time until we get something similar grand.
JumpCancel
Banned
Well deserved in my opinion.
Ultimadrago
Member
Oh, I didn't know The Witcher's count got past 200 since this thread was created.
222 GOTYs now.
Is there some kind of record for the highest goties or it's too variable year after year?
RespectThySole
Member
249 for TLOU
Is there any statistic on how many awards were given that year compared to how many have been given now? Just wondering if Witcher 3 has any chance to get over that amount anymore.
RespectThySole
Member
Wow. So Witcher 3 will easily get more awards than TLOU. Unless everyone decides for some reason to give they GOTYs to everything else.
johnnydrama
Banned
241 now.
Ricky Ricardo
Member
There's no stopping this train!
johnnydrama
Banned
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
UPDATE:It's at 243 now.
I really need to play this game at some point. A lot of folks seem to only have good things to say about it.
The last few RPGs I've played were FF13, Xenoblade, and Bloodborne. One was crap, one was pretty good yet limited by hardware, and the last one was good but more focused on the combat than anything else. That's not much in the last five years. I don't remember playing any other console RPGs.
The last few RPGs I've played were FF13, Xenoblade, and Bloodborne. One was crap, one was pretty good yet limited by hardware, and the last one was good but more focused on the combat than anything else. That's not much in the last five years. I don't remember playing any other console RPGs.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
New numbers.
The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt - 243
The Critics' Picks - 162
The Readers' Picks - 81
Fallout 4 - 54
The Critics' Picks - 38
The Readers' Picks - 16
Bloodborne - 30
The Critics' Picks - 22
The Readers' Picks - 8
The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt - 243
The Critics' Picks - 162
The Readers' Picks - 81
Fallout 4 - 54
The Critics' Picks - 38
The Readers' Picks - 16
Bloodborne - 30
The Critics' Picks - 22
The Readers' Picks - 8
Gurgelhals
Member
Despite the distance between first and second place, it's still frustrating to see Fallout 4 on that second place. There were several games in 2015 more worthy of that place than Bethesda's latest and arguably most egregious example of lowest common denominator jank.
But good on Witcher 3 and CD Projekt Red. It's well deserved.
But good on Witcher 3 and CD Projekt Red. It's well deserved.
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
166 places got it right. Good on them.
Sorry, 243 places got it right.
Sorry, 243 places got it right.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Pmed a mod for a thread title update.
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
Vocal minority is still just a minority. And GAF isn't the best place to gauge overall taste in gaming.
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
The DLC was fantastic. I beat it before beating the regular campaign.
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