TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Uh... only one out of the seven shots before your post is sharpened.
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Xbox One: Crushed blacks & RGB settings broken?
- Thread starter Foxix Von
- Start date
Uh... only one out of the seven shots before your post is sharpened.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
crushed blacks. i thought everyone was all about dat black level. /smug
I'm currently standing in the same spot, at night, and it's not even dark let alone crushed like that. I think there is something really wrong with Timu's capture setup.
The intro at the prison does look like that though
cartoon_soldier
Member
post a recorded video?
That screen was on Full RGB with no increased gamma at the time, but now all my recent screens are increased gamma with Limited RGB.
Oh and my capture card don't like these X1 games it seems, hope the one next week does.
so I tried this and when I go to watch the clip all the blacks are completely fucked like you see in that screenshot
I guess this is due to the ingame gamma adjustment but I'm using the default settings (I never adjust the levels in any game that asks)
cartoon_soldier
Member
Damn...MS
That's surprising.
Chobel
Member
This is weird.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Upload one of them to Skydrive.
cartoon_soldier
Member
In the Scaler thread Timu said he is not using 1080p output for games:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=91208021&postcount=636
I maybe mistaken, but doesn't that mean the Scaler doesn't apply?
Same as game DVR, since it records footage in 720p, maybe the game DVR footage is pre-scaler?
ionicbluebird
Member
I strongly believe this was intentional on MS's part to dissuade customers.
I've seen a few comparisons where under the comments people have said "PS4 version is washed out" and never (other than here) the "greys are too black".
Meanwhile the PS4 version looks the same as the PC version.
I've seen a few comparisons where under the comments people have said "PS4 version is washed out" and never (other than here) the "greys are too black".
Meanwhile the PS4 version looks the same as the PC version.
shungokusatsu
Member
Can we try with a multiplat? Anyone have Call of Duty: Ghosts? I have it on PS4 if needed.
Slackbladder
Member
Has someone tried a TV calibration dvd or blu-ray on the Xbone and PS4? Not that it would affect the consoles but it should set the tv up correctly. Then you could see the specific differences between the consoles if there are any.
Not sure about yours in particular, but most TVs use limited.
The Xbone has built-in calibration tools. Hopefully people are using them.
9:
So is it better to play at 1080p???
9 looks the best to me...
That would be interesting. I had not thought about if this was affecting dvd/BR playback also.
Is this was causing detail to be lost in dark areas on movies/tv footage then that would be horrendous, and require a pretty urgent response to say whether it can/will be fixed. Anyone able to do a comparison?
Well, maybe some of you guys remember the multiplat comparisons between 360/PS3? How often reviewers critized the washed out look of the PS3 version in comparison to the 360 version?
This is the exact same thing. MS skewed the gamma curve to get more contrast in the picture and make the colors "pop". It's basically the same tv manufcatureres do for their TV settings. It makes "average joe" (and at this point I do believe GAF is 85% average joge) say "wow itz so colorful and sharp".
Last gen, not ONE reviewer was able to understand and explain this. They all gave the nod to the 360 versions because of added, artificial contrast. So what MS did was just going along with their tradition, only adding some sharpness on top.
This is the exact same thing. MS skewed the gamma curve to get more contrast in the picture and make the colors "pop". It's basically the same tv manufcatureres do for their TV settings. It makes "average joe" (and at this point I do believe GAF is 85% average joge) say "wow itz so colorful and sharp".
Last gen, not ONE reviewer was able to understand and explain this. They all gave the nod to the 360 versions because of added, artificial contrast. So what MS did was just going along with their tradition, only adding some sharpness on top.
Well that may have fooled the media and worked on game visuals last gen, but if this also affects the BR playback and hdmi pass-through this will be a major pain.
hooijdonk17
Member
Majority of consumers can't tell the difference between crushed blacks and calibrated image.
As for you, the less you see, the less you'll notice it looks like shit.
Microsoft wins.
As for you, the less you see, the less you'll notice it looks like shit.
Microsoft wins.
Mr Moose
Member
Reposting from the other thread:
I decided to go the extra mile of doing different gammas from 6 to 10:
6:
7:
8:
9:
10:
So is it better to play at 1080p???
You can saw someone in half with that bat @6
Best set to 9 I think.
Well it's what's going tot he TV. I had to set black levels to 0 on my TV. Before I had it at 7.
Well it's what's going tot he TV. I had to set black levels to 0 on my TV. Before I had it at 7.
Okay, Do any of you have Samsung TV's and are having problems with this?
Suffering the same fate, and it's destroying the experience for me. KI's blacks are crushed to fuck when the scaler is used to output 1080p.
One quick test for people to see this is press the guide button whilst in KI (character selection preferably), now look at the game in the small window - It looks great and crush free, and now go back in game and you can see the blacks being crushed within seconds of going full screen.
It's so damn annoying it makes KI look like crap. I've changed every setting possible to alleviate this with not much avail on my Sony Bravia KDL50W656. Setting the system to 720p however does improve things so the scaler isn't utilised. As said before if the games native 1080p, or like Ryse where they use their own method things are fine. I just hope they notice this as an issue and fix swiftly.
One quick test for people to see this is press the guide button whilst in KI (character selection preferably), now look at the game in the small window - It looks great and crush free, and now go back in game and you can see the blacks being crushed within seconds of going full screen.
It's so damn annoying it makes KI look like crap. I've changed every setting possible to alleviate this with not much avail on my Sony Bravia KDL50W656. Setting the system to 720p however does improve things so the scaler isn't utilised. As said before if the games native 1080p, or like Ryse where they use their own method things are fine. I just hope they notice this as an issue and fix swiftly.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Yeah it's most annoying in KI because there is no gamma adjustment setting. In Dead Rising 3 the game only has to be kicked up 1-2 notches in the settings. The same goes for Call of Duty. I feel like this is a developer choice thing.
To the poster who posted those screen shots:
The second image (one notch up for you) looks correct to me.
un1que
Member
On a similar topic is anyone else getting really bad quality images of the game covers/ads on the xbox live games store? They look really low Rez to me.
Also could someone explain the colour depth settings and what's best?
Using my xbox one 1080p through DVI and I must say killer instinct looks more s-video than rgb. Colours don't look right.
Also could someone explain the colour depth settings and what's best?
Using my xbox one 1080p through DVI and I must say killer instinct looks more s-video than rgb. Colours don't look right.
Color depth - "Full" is computer standard, "Limited" is broadcast standard. Match what your screen is set to (if there's no setting, it's Limited for TVs or Full for monitors). Both devices set full > both devices set limited >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mix and match, and the Xbox's "intermediate" guarantees a broken mix.
Changing your TV's "HDMI Black Level" to "Normal" tends to fix this for me on my PS3/PC on my Samsung TV.
Default TV settings don't recognise if Console/PCs has FULL RGB enabled. TV's keep the "HDMI Black Level" setting on "Low" to give better blacks/whites on "LIMITED RGB" devices and media (since it's default on the devices) but it totally fucks up "FULL RGB" content where there are a lot of shadows and black colours.
Default TV settings don't recognise if Console/PCs has FULL RGB enabled. TV's keep the "HDMI Black Level" setting on "Low" to give better blacks/whites on "LIMITED RGB" devices and media (since it's default on the devices) but it totally fucks up "FULL RGB" content where there are a lot of shadows and black colours.
I would imagine Xbox only outputs limited due to having to show tv and games at the same time. Has anyone checked sharpening in a 720p tv channel like ABC HD? Is sharpening applied when it is upscaled and not when you set xbox to output 720p
What happens to content like Forza that needs to be downscaled for a 720p tv, does that suffer sharpening?
8-Bit Beast
Banned
So how would one find out if their tv supports full rgb? I have a Samsung UE40bvw6000 but I have never been able to figure out if my tv supports it or not
un1que
Member
Cheers. But on the settings that's the colour space, not the colour depth.
The colour depth has the settings like 24bit, 32bit and 36bit or something
The Setting can be found pressing menu on the remote. Go to Picture, press picture options and setting is there. The option can be seen below (Its on Low >_<)
It's also not a bad idea to put your TV's (no matter which Brand/Model) into Game Mode.
Timu, if you haven't already, could you post your ouput setup? (X1 settings, monitor settings, monitor type and model#, dvi or hdmi output, etc.)
I ask because I had trouble with black level at launch (display discovery is basically broken) but was able to find settings that worked.
I ask because I had trouble with black level at launch (display discovery is basically broken) but was able to find settings that worked.
un1que
Member
The Setting can be found pressing menu on the remote. Go to Picture, press picture options and setting is there. The option can be seen below (Its on Low >_<)
It's also not a bad idea to put your TV's (no matter which Brand/Model) into Game Mode.
What does "game mode" do exactly? Is it just a preset of contrast, brightness and colour settings?
8-Bit Beast
Banned
The Setting can be found pressing menu on the remote. Go to Picture, press picture options and setting is there. The option can be seen below (Its on Low >_<)
It's also not a bad idea to put your TV's (no matter which Brand/Model) into Game Mode.
So that's what that setting is for! I always wondered what film mode does. So just to confirm, best to have that set to off for gaming right? Only other options it has is auto 1 and 2.
Game mode is already on. Any idea if the dynamic contrast options on tvs also crush blacks? I disabled it a few days ago and after compensating for the change the image looks.... maybe better? Im not great at picking up on the changes without side by side comparisons
Yes, but it disables most of the enhancements that add severe lag input
You can leave the Dynamic Contrast, Film Mode on their default options that appears when turning on Game Mode. Just make sure the "HDMI Black Level" is on "Normal" when your Console Setting is on "FULL RGB"
8-Bit Beast
Banned
Cheers. I just set up my gaming configs with these setting and its looking a bit more natural now. Oddly it defaults to turning on edge enhancement which I turned off of course and the hdmi/dvi doesn't support screen fit. Luckily all other hdmi's do. Seems I have a weird tv
The 360 was pretty bad for this too. People say the PS3 is washed out but I think it's more the 360 picture is too colorful. I had to greatly increase the contrast and brightness for any game that didn't let you adjust the gamma. Left at default levels it was almost impossible to see in games like Prey and Splinter Cell Double Agent.
Most people don't know what good colour reproduction is.
I keep calibrating every set in my home and my father comes behind crying that "The color is washed out. I prefer that Vivid standard son"
infinityBCRT
Member
The Setting can be found pressing menu on the remote. Go to Picture, press picture options and setting is there. The option can be seen below (Its on Low >_<)
It's also not a bad idea to put your TV's (no matter which Brand/Model) into Game Mode.
The HDMI Black level setting confuses me on my LG. When I set it to Low-- the screen gets darker/more contrasty. whereas when I set it to high it gets less constrasty. To me that means the Low = Limited mode, and High = Full mode, as High is trying to read past 16-235 for darks and lights it seems. At least, thats how it seems like its working to me.