SEGAvangelist
Member
Good to see at least Double Helix has corrected this. Killer Instinct looks wonderful now.
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Xbox One: Crushed blacks & RGB settings broken?
- Thread starter Foxix Von
- Start date
Kabuki Waq
Member
SEGAvangelist
Member
a few days ago with the new patch
RedAssedApe
Banned
so it was a double helix issue and not a xbone issue or do devs just have the ability to ignore whatever the xbone tries to do to the image?
SEGAvangelist
Member
I'm not sure actually, but hopefully we get patches for CoD, BF4, and DR3 next.
SwiftDeath
Member
Yes this brings up all sorts of interesting questions. Like was it a DICE decision to use the filter? Do they have the option to patch it out?
I'm hoping for DR3 the most. Game I'm most looking forward to on XB1 at present when I do eventually get it
SEGAvangelist
Member
IMO, DR3 needs it the most since it hinders gameplay seriously in a few cases. Fortunately it has in-game gamma settings to help. KI had no gamma setting.
rokkerkory
Member
Wow good thing we are getting fixes.
SwiftDeath
Member
Yeah some of the screengrabs looked badly dark. I know it's not going to be the prettiest game regardless but it looked good fun and graphics won't stop me from having fun
Family Fry
Member
Me and a friend played it last night and were both like, have they patched this? because it looks SO much better.
Couldn't see anywhere where they confirmed they took the filter off BUT it does look a lot better than before.
Especially now I look back to the start of the thread pictures and compare.
SEGAvangelist
Member
It looks good enough for me to enjoy. I just got upset a few times in the game when I couldn't see even with the gamma settings increased. It didn't stop me from sinking over 20 hours into the game, though.
RedAssedApe
Banned
just out of curiosity. does xbone have a update notes thing like ps4? that is one nice thing i noticed about ps4 game updates.
That would make sense if it were the only game suffering from this, but an ealier version of BF4 had this problem, call of duty ghost's suffers from it as does Dead rising 3.
The question is if the cause is the same for all the cases you mentioned. Few people play on calibrated TVs and then there is also the variable of how people capture and handle the images to support their claims. I am not saying that the Xbox is not changing the image, because Microsoft has some history in fiddling with gamma, but there is a lot in review circumstances (at the consumer) and the development pipeline (at the developer) that can go wrong and result in the crushed blacks.
Since there are games on Xbox One that are not affected, developers seem to have influence over it and in the specific case of KI, the initial images point to a very aggressive LUT which got tweaked with a patch lately. The drawback of the patch though is that some things got a bit washed out (as some players reported in this thread) since the assets of the game have been developed with the original LUT in mind which result in blown out whites.
SEGAvangelist
Member
With a properly calibrated set the game looks awesome now. I don't know why they're seeing blown out whites. They just need to adjust their televisions' brightness settings.
Sanic
Member
No it doesn't, and seeing as games update in the background, I had no idea that KI was even patched for example.
gray_fox224
Junior Member
Are users still experiencing these problems? I bought an X1 yesterday and I find the blacks incredibility dark.
a Master Ninja
Member
My understanding is the problem still exists system wide but some games, like Killer Instinct, have had patches that increase their brightness.
gray_fox224
Junior Member
Thanks for the update.
Go to the settings and do the color calibration/tv calibration thing.
SEGAvangelist
Member
So Killer Instinct actually still has crushed blacks, but the brightness was kicked up a bit. Dead Rising 3 has crushed blacks as well but you can adjust the gamma setting within the game. These are the only 2 games I've had issues with, actually.
Are people still experiencing this? I'm finding it to be a small problem with Titanfall. It actually looks better when both are set to low on my Bravia 42" LED.
Also when both are in full the top eye and contrast sun will not show up in the Xbox Display Configuration page. Anybody else find this :/
Also when both are in full the top eye and contrast sun will not show up in the Xbox Display Configuration page. Anybody else find this :/
Yes full is broken on the Xbox One. See all the comparisons that show crushed blacks. Use limited until they fix it.
Ladies and gentlemen. There are a few things I should point out about TV/monitor calibration and Xbox One. There are a couple of concepts in play here that are quite simple yet laymen and tech heads seem to have problems wrapping there heads around them.
On the TV/Monitor subject....
Only the best stuff is decently calibrated out of the box and usually only in MOVIE mode. This is why we calibrate our TVs and Monitors. The point that people do not get is that YOU CAN NOT CALIBRATE YOUR TV/MONITOR FOR BOTH HDMI FULL AND LIMITED AT THE SAME TIME. TO DO SO WOULD REQUIRE TWO SEPARATE CALIBRATIONS
( one for HDMI FULL and another for HDMI LIMITED ) AND WOULD RESULT IN TWO UNIQUE, DISTINCT AND DIFFERENT GROUPS OF PICTURE SETTINGS.
You should set all your devices that can switch between HDMI full and limited to HDMI LIMITED/LOW. The devices that do not give you a choice are defaulted to LIMITED. Set your TV/Monitor to LIMITED. Use the absolute best Blu-Ray player that you have and use the AVS HD 709 calibration disk. Buy a pair of THX glasses from THX.com if you don't have blue film. Follow the instructions for the disk carefully. If you do it properly you will not suffer from black crushing. I usually do not have to change default brightness/gamma settings in games because the hardware is set properly and my TV is calibrated. Yes, the Xbox One uses a weird gamma curve but it's really not that big of a deal. I calibrate all of my HDMI inputs for both regular and game mode. My Samsung UN55D8000 keeps separate picture settings for everything. My Xbox One and PS4 use the same input ( HDMI 4 ) and I slightly tweeked my post calibration picture settings and everything on both consoles looks great. So does my dedicated 3D Blu-ray player, FIOS cable box, Wii U and my Home Theater/ Gaming PC. You are not loosing picture quality if you use HDMI LIMITED, trust me and trust your eyes.
On the TV/Monitor subject....
Only the best stuff is decently calibrated out of the box and usually only in MOVIE mode. This is why we calibrate our TVs and Monitors. The point that people do not get is that YOU CAN NOT CALIBRATE YOUR TV/MONITOR FOR BOTH HDMI FULL AND LIMITED AT THE SAME TIME. TO DO SO WOULD REQUIRE TWO SEPARATE CALIBRATIONS
( one for HDMI FULL and another for HDMI LIMITED ) AND WOULD RESULT IN TWO UNIQUE, DISTINCT AND DIFFERENT GROUPS OF PICTURE SETTINGS.
You should set all your devices that can switch between HDMI full and limited to HDMI LIMITED/LOW. The devices that do not give you a choice are defaulted to LIMITED. Set your TV/Monitor to LIMITED. Use the absolute best Blu-Ray player that you have and use the AVS HD 709 calibration disk. Buy a pair of THX glasses from THX.com if you don't have blue film. Follow the instructions for the disk carefully. If you do it properly you will not suffer from black crushing. I usually do not have to change default brightness/gamma settings in games because the hardware is set properly and my TV is calibrated. Yes, the Xbox One uses a weird gamma curve but it's really not that big of a deal. I calibrate all of my HDMI inputs for both regular and game mode. My Samsung UN55D8000 keeps separate picture settings for everything. My Xbox One and PS4 use the same input ( HDMI 4 ) and I slightly tweeked my post calibration picture settings and everything on both consoles looks great. So does my dedicated 3D Blu-ray player, FIOS cable box, Wii U and my Home Theater/ Gaming PC. You are not loosing picture quality if you use HDMI LIMITED, trust me and trust your eyes.
Calibration or not there is still an issue with the Xbox one when it comes to contrast and crushed blacks. I game on a monitor (RGB full) and always calibrate my settings accordingly. I refuse to believe that I have to just adjust my brightness way up to levels that I have never had to do with any other device just for the Xbox one. And the blacks,gamma,contrast still looks off.
This to me is my biggest issue with my Xbox one and one that I feel Microsoft really needs to address in the next update. Sure many game on limited RGB, but many game on full RGB as well. Either by choice or as their only option (monitor).
Both should work as intended.
This to me is my biggest issue with my Xbox one and one that I feel Microsoft really needs to address in the next update. Sure many game on limited RGB, but many game on full RGB as well. Either by choice or as their only option (monitor).
Both should work as intended.
Not only did you dig up this ancient thread, you also completely missed the point...
ElRenoRaven
Member
He's gonna go far around here then.
dcx4610
Member
There's still a problem.
My TV supports "Full RBG" but the Xbox One crushes the blacks.
With my TV set to "Full" and the Xbox set to "Full", if you run the calibration tool there is a part where you can adjust the brightness to see an eye open and closed. With these settings, you can't see the black eye or the white eye no matter how much you adjust the brightness. Switching the TV to limited and the Xbox to limited, the eye will show.
For now, I just leave the Xbox on limited until they fix the full setting. There's very little difference but it would still be nice to set it to full since it's the only device I have to set to limited.
My TV supports "Full RBG" but the Xbox One crushes the blacks.
With my TV set to "Full" and the Xbox set to "Full", if you run the calibration tool there is a part where you can adjust the brightness to see an eye open and closed. With these settings, you can't see the black eye or the white eye no matter how much you adjust the brightness. Switching the TV to limited and the Xbox to limited, the eye will show.
For now, I just leave the Xbox on limited until they fix the full setting. There's very little difference but it would still be nice to set it to full since it's the only device I have to set to limited.
dcx4610
Member
Sony Bravia and yes, it's calibrated. I have Limited, Full and Auto on my TV. Thankfully auto works so I don't have to mess with anything.
That said, typically you want TV Full > Device Full or TV Limited > Device Limited.
TV Full > PS3 Full = Perfect
TV Limited > PS3 Limited = Perfect
TV Full > PS4 Full = Perfect
TV Limited > PS4 Limited = Perfect
TV Full > XB1 Full = Crushed blacks
TV Limited > XB1 Limited = Perfect
TV Full > Wii U Full = Washed Out. Wii U does not support full RGB.
TV Limited > Wii U Limited = Perfect
Xbox One's settings are broken. Wii U simply doesn't support full so you are forced to pick limited.
Yeah, Full Range Output on Xbox One is broken. It has nothing to do with calibration. I posted some photos in the update thread here, using the test image Albert Penello provided: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=122381329&postcount=671
I even used exaggerated settings to demonstrate the problem, and included the menu showing that my TV is set to Full. Some other posters took photos of their results as well (eg http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=122427910&postcount=711 ) and Albert said they will look into it
Sorry to bump this thread, but has MS said anything about fixing this issue? I just bought an XB1 and noticed this was a problem pretty quickly. I currently have the console hooked up to a PC monitor and I'm forced to leave RGB set on "limited" because the blacks are awfully crushed otherwise.
SEGAvangelist
Member
All we have is that Albert said he'd look into it.
That was like... months ago. He better!
To me it seems to be an issue with launch window games. Games released later on don't seem to have this problem. It could have been an issue with the SDK at the time...
Make sure your RGB setting is set to limited or full (depending on what your TV is set to). I believe I read somewhere that the "auto-detect" settings are broken and you have to set it manually.
SwiftDeath
Member
Right but someone like Crytek were able to counteract or turn off the filter so that's a launch game that directly contradicts the notion it only applied to launch titles
Not really. Crytek could have found a way to bypass the issue (they are one of the best developers when it comes to technical marvels), that doesn't mean that the issue wasn't there for the other devs.
SwiftDeath
Member
Right so then the answers to my previous questions would be no and no respectively although we don't know that for sure. It seems to me that maybe MS went back on their original stance regarding the filter and thus Double Helix was able to disable it. I find it hard to believe that Crytek would see a "issue" such as a filter like that built into the system and being who they are not say something to MS about it as they develop a exclusive for launch.
Those Killer Instinct images have been out of date for some time. A patch corrected the output range to address that.
WHY did you bump this thread then?!
It was quoted in discussion for an example, and I clicked through not realizing someone was digging up a graveyard.