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Xbox One: Crushed blacks & RGB settings broken?
- Thread starter Foxix Von
- Start date
Delt31
Member
TV picture satisfaction is in the eye of the beholder. I love the tv pros who come in and calibrate and the picture looks washed out and dull. I don't care if it's true pic quality - i rather have pop. simple as that. And the tv pros who are on these forums can quote that as to why the average joe will never get it. How about we don't want to get it.
Whiteshirt
Member
The idea behind calibration is to get an overall balanced picture that works with all content and will display the content how the content provider aims to provide it. Nothing is stopping you from adjusting the image to how you want it but in many cases, these features result in loss of definition and image detail for so-called "pop".
Its the same idea behind "loudness" in music. Mastering a "loud" record can sound better to the average person, and they're welcome to want it, but the result always eliminates dynamic range and nearly always makes percussion instruments sound wimpy.
Now, these should be left to the user to choose like you and that guy's dad has done. The problem is that Microsoft, because they probably focus tested this shit, is forcing everyone to accept this loss of fidelity because people like sharpness and pop even if it makes aliasing problems more apparent, adds ringing everywhere, and makes everything dark.
un1que
Member
Cheers.
Does anyone else think that the images on the xbox live store of the games are really poor quality and low res or is it a glitch?
It shocks me that a machine made for 1080p doesn't have hi res ads and images online.
Maybe it's for bandwidth?
PairOfFilthySocks
Member
That sharpen filter is absolutely disgusting. What were Microsoft thinking?!
I'm with you on that they're quite poor. Like you say it'll just be a happy medium so peeps with slower connections don't get bogged down, downloading higher res images.
Anyhow just had a long KI session, and the crushed blacks just make me sad.
un1que
Member
Glad I'm not the only one then.
I hope they do manage to sort these graphical problems out with the upscaler and stuff.
I wonder what the PS4 upscaler is like?
cartoon_soldier
Member
Found some KI clips from reddit:
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?res...17&authkey=!AGS6djRdBm0yLKo&ithint=video,.mp4
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=6e81...93&ithint=video,.mp4&authkey=!ANxDVaHvsyFkfl4
Definitely see the crushed blacks on the videos.
But doesn't seem to bad on CoD?
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=1760...10&ithint=video,.mp4&authkey=!AE-bGXDZBJ-eQAo
https://skydrive.live.com/redir?res...17&authkey=!AGS6djRdBm0yLKo&ithint=video,.mp4
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=6e81...93&ithint=video,.mp4&authkey=!ANxDVaHvsyFkfl4
Definitely see the crushed blacks on the videos.
But doesn't seem to bad on CoD?
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=1760...10&ithint=video,.mp4&authkey=!AE-bGXDZBJ-eQAo
Microsoft, what have you done?
We really need to test if the HDMI Black level setting is also broken in Xbox 1 like it was in X360 (Extended setting still crushed blacks)
Muppet of a Man
Member
Dat first post.
But seriously, how is this happening at this point? Does this just happen on games being upscaled to 1080p?
caustictoast
Neo Member
You killed me on the toilet.
Honestly it took me a minute to realize what was happening but yeah something has to be wrong on the software side (hopefully)
That level of black crush is almost unplayable for me. Many games like Bioshock and Arkham Asylum really test your ability to battle, search, and navigate in darkness. It would be totally unplayable in such heavy black crush if it weren't for the ability to just blow away shadow details with TV settings... but then you really aren't playing under reasonable circumstances.
SEGAvangelist
Member
After reading everything, I'm convinced for most people with TV issues it's a full range/limited range issue. The output from the cable box is limited and then blacks are crushed when people select full range. The gaming image is fine in this case if the TV is set correctly, but the cable box is still outputting a limited range signal more than likely. Just choose limited and set your TV to the appropriate setting. This does not change the issues with Dead Rising 3 and Killer Instinct, and Call of Duty, though. Those games all have crushed blacks even with correct TV settings. Dead Rising 3 and Call of Duty: Ghosts can both be corrected with gamma level increases within the game settings. Killer Instinct cannot. The one common variable for all 3 games... 720p upscaled. This seems like an issue on MS's end for sure.
Looks like games upscaled using the hardware scaler are the issue. Ryse doesn't have this issue since it's using Crytek's own custom scaling mechanism that includes some form of AA as well.
Looks like games upscaled using the hardware scaler are the issue. Ryse doesn't have this issue since it's using Crytek's own custom scaling mechanism that includes some form of AA as well.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
It's essentially a loss of detail in the darker color ranges. Where you should see gradations of color you only see a flat black surface. Unless your television also supports a Full Range setting, just keep it set to limited. Although I'm not sure that makes a difference with the way the console is currently set.
This is part of what tripped up the Digital Foundry capture session with CoD. Xbone doesn't currently have a working full setting.
Good to know this about the 360. I always felt like I was cheating because I had to crank up the gamma to see anything, even for games that had horror elements. Ravenholm would definitely be scarier with zombies popping out of blackness, but I need to see where I'm going!
SEGAvangelist
Member
Yeah, I tested full range as well and my TV won't auto switch to a full range setting like it does with PCs and other full range devices, and I don't have a manual option to switch it on my TV like Samsungs (which may lock it out in this case, who knows?)). Pretty much... don't use full range on Xbox One.... period.
Well had a few more games, and took some "Record that" footage which also keeps the blacks crushed to oblivion. Changing to 720p helps, but to be honest it's still dire?
Another example from me, although the footage is pretty low quality anyhow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH7_L5AmoPI
Another example from me, although the footage is pretty low quality anyhow.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH7_L5AmoPI
Ahaha, wow, I totally misread you. I haven't actually worked with 36-bit, but iirc from the 24-bit to 30-bit changeover, setting over what your TV supports just results in no picture.
Yeah, give me incorrect color reproduction and crushed blacks any day!
(Edit: Not from a XB1, just an example of crap black crush/saturation/sharpening)
If you think the image on the left looks good, you have pretty bad taste.
For what it's worth, http://www.gamersyde.com/ seems to be showing the same issues with their XB1 captures. This is something that needs to be fixed pronto.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Yeah, give me incorrect color reproduction and crushed blacks any day!
If you think the image on the left looks good, you have pretty bad taste.
For what it's worth, http://www.gamersyde.com/ seems to be showing the same issues with their XB1 captures. This is something that needs to be fixed pronto.
Where are the avatar screen grabs from?
So I'm going to have to go with 9? Ok thanks for the suggestions, kind of insane though, lol.
Yeah, give me incorrect color reproduction and crushed blacks any day!
If you think the image on the left looks good, you have pretty bad taste.
For what it's worth, http://www.gamersyde.com/ seems to be showing the same issues with their XB1 captures. This is something that needs to be fixed pronto.
Which shows it's an Xbox problem.
God damnit, they never fixed Full Range on X360, I'm not putting my eggs on them fixing this. Most people apparently can't see the difference or "prefer" the crushed blacks for being "punchy"
HomerSimpson-Man
Member
If people wanted to lose video detail and over compensate for poor black levels and need to introduce picture artifacts on ill-equip HDtvs, leave the controls of "dynamic contrast" and "edge enhancement" open to the tvs instead of just locking it out for everyone instead of leaving it as a 'standard' video output; its just terrible if you want better picture quality and all those calibration options are completely skewed.
Hey, people can have tvs with both good black levels and shadow details now, this isn't 2005 with HDtv tech!
Hey, people can have tvs with both good black levels and shadow details now, this isn't 2005 with HDtv tech!
Hot linked it from a google search. Looks to be thegamefanatics.com
It wasn't from a XB1 capture, just an example of what crushed blacks, over saturated and sharpened images can do (make it look like shit).
OdysseusVA
Banned
You should go with whichever looks correct on your set. Based on your pictures, "7" was the lowest for my Panasonic while still being able to see the center image.
Syphon Filter
Member
So lets say the setting are broken. If MS comes out with a patch to fix the settings,will every game be fixed or will devs need to patch their game?
The System Patch would fix everything.
They did this years ago with the 360. It came in one of these Spring Updates.
I think.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
It was still broken.
crazepharmacist
Member
Well this is a good way to ensure I never buy a multiplatform title on Xbox One. I saw this debacle coming from a mile away. As soon as DF's BF4 comparison went up. Coupled with the fact Xbox 360 can't even display full range RGB. Stay away from the Xbone if you value picture quality. Too many headaches.
SEGAvangelist
Member
Did a new comparison, this time with altered settings on my monitor:
Now KI:
And DR3, with gamma between 7-9:
7:
8:
9:
Much better. Is your console set to Full or Limited? Usually a PC setting on your monitor is used with Full Range on the outputting device. Maybe 720p games are outputting full range on the 720p display plane?
I'm using RGB Limited.
crazepharmacist
Member
So you're outputting limited from the Xbox One to a full monitor? Usually that results in a washed out image but your pictures look quite normal. That is very odd.
I have my monitor on Video Mode.=p
So with everything said and discovered, what's the probability of this being resolved? I'm guessing it wouldn't be addressed until late next year.
I'm considering bowing put of the xbone camp by selling it on, and just sticking with my ps4 (friday, uk) until the issue is fully resolved.
I'm considering bowing put of the xbone camp by selling it on, and just sticking with my ps4 (friday, uk) until the issue is fully resolved.
A limited output / full input washes the image out, it doesn't crush blacks.
And yes, TV content (like DVD/BR) is encoded with limited range.
Well, Timu took screens of KI with the console set to 720p output. Didn't fix the problem at all. So either it's something else entirely, or KI isn't even 720p native
Or maybe games always somehow go through the scaler by default (even if they're not scaled), unless it's manually disabled by devs, which is why Ryse isn't affected.
John Caboose
Member
A limited output / full input washes the image out, it doesn't crush blacks.
And yes, TV content (like DVD/BR) is encoded with limited range.
Well, Timu took screens of KI with the console set to 720p output. Didn't fix the problem at all. So either it's something else entirely, or KI isn't even 720p native
Or maybe games always somehow go through the scaler by default (even if they're not scaled), unless it's manually disabled by devs, which is why Ryse isn't affected.
Limited on Xbox One and Black Level High on monitor is what I'm using now to prevent blacks from being crushed. It's a tiny bit washed out as you say but I prefer it over the black crush.
Anticitizen One
Banned
Im using an HDMI cable and I've had problems with the black levels in Dead Rising 3 and KI. I have a Sharp Aquos LCD. PS3/360/ps4/wii u games all look fine its only XOne games that I notice the issue. It makes it very difficult to see in DR 3 especially when you go to a shaded area.
Looks like I'm not the only one having this problem with both games.=p
Wishmaster92
Member
I will do a test later today and post the results here.
Looking forward to it!
Terbinator
Member
Messing around before with my HDMI > DVI cable and the picture in the dahsboard at least seemed clearer set to DVI mode in the Xbone's settings.
Any thoughts on this?
Any thoughts on this?
cartoon_soldier
Member
Someone had mentioned changing XB1's settings from HDMI-Auto to HDMI and selecting resolution manually.
the 360 was always FUBAR'ing the calibrations on my Samsung LED DLP...Full RGB works fine on the PS3/PS4...but the 360 would just crush blacks to shit if i set it to Full...all of my inputs (cable box, blu-ray player, PS3/PS4 etc) require very little variance in settings to achieve similar results...
the 360? ugh...completely different...ive grown somewhat used to blown out contrast on 360 games...seems the Xbone suffers from the same syndrome...the worst thing is that it seems to be a conscious decision on MS' part, and it works...most people find oversaturated, overly sharpened images to be pleasing...
the 360? ugh...completely different...ive grown somewhat used to blown out contrast on 360 games...seems the Xbone suffers from the same syndrome...the worst thing is that it seems to be a conscious decision on MS' part, and it works...most people find oversaturated, overly sharpened images to be pleasing...
John Caboose
Member
Doesn't matter what I pick, just tried all combinations.
Xbox 360 can't do Full RGB. The setting is fucked.
Stay on Limited and set your TV accordingly for the Xbox 360 input