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[Colbert]

Like i said $499 is not smart. It will create a negative narrative.
Exactly what is happening now.

We as gamers build the narrative and I don't know from where the expectation of $399 was coming from. I am personally fine with $499 as I said several times but it seems I am just a part of a minority here.

 

[thill1985]

$499 is steep. It'd be easier to swallow alongside a strong trade in policy, but without that it seems like a missed opportunity to light up interest in the brand again. At $400 they could potentially be positioned to capture X1/PS4 owners looking to upgrade plus a good portion of PC gamers considering upgrading too. I feel at $499 the latter group won't bite and the console folks upgrading will hold off for price drops instead. That's if Sony stays put at $400 for Pro...if they drop price those folks will just go for a Pro instead.

I suppose we can't say Phil didn't warn us. :/

 

[Theorry]

We as gamers build the narrative and I don't know from where the expectation of $399 was coming from. I am personally fine with $499 as I said several times but it seems I am just a part of a minority here.

And you are a minority on hardcore game community. So that doesnt bode well.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

I'm on my mobile so it's tough.
1. The reveal video claims no limits on power and it's a true 4K gaming machine
2. That quick speck sheet. With the 4 numbers and black background say it's "The first true 4K console"
3. They etched "4K" into the chip
4. The mixr stream tweet was "experience true 4K"
5. "Microsoft's 'Project Scorpio' Xbox promises true 4K gaming" link

Just off the top of my head.

Surely their 'true 4K' claims are a little disingenuous when the Pro has 4K native games, right?

 

[family_guy]

So what's the fucking hype for a niche console aimed at the existing and paltry Xbox One install base? lol. Why wait a year for a Jag/Polaris-based console that's $100 more than the competition. Can't be like PS4 and launch $100 cheaper and offer more power? Out of concern for them, $499 actually has an adverse affect on the brand. Better if it didn't exist and the money went elsewhere if you're not aiming at mindshare.

I personally think the Scorpio is a response to the PS4 Pro. The way they announced Xbox One S, but said, "Hey we have an even better box coming next year!" was MS trying to prevent Sony from getting even more sales and making the Xbox One look ancient. Scorpio may have been a concept for their next gen console, but Sony forced MS's hand early, so this is what we get.

Edit: Also the PS4 was cheaper and more powerful because MS focused on Kinect which cost the consumer more money.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Like i said $499 is not smart. It will create a negative narrative.
Exactly what is happening now.

It's a premium box for a premium price. This was always the most likely outcome. A real longlasting negative narrative is not delivering games that take advantage of it and MS should be more worried about that possibility. Maybe we'll get a lower price when it's official, but I'm not seeing anything unexpected as a reaction to the price if it is truly $499.

 

[Theorry]

It's a premium box for a premium price. This was always the most likely outcome. A real longlasting negative narrative is not delivering games that take advantage of it. Maybe we'll get a lower price when it's official, but I'm not seeing anything unexpected as a reaction to the price if it is truly $499.

Well its already happening. See the thread about $499 and sites picking it up.

 

[MilkyJoe]

£450 is totally fine if you're totally fine paying it. Like I said. I'll probably bite now if they show some cool games because I bought an OLED for the pro and so far, not much is making the most of it.

But £450 isn't fine when you need to catch up by 10s of millions of consoles.

At £450 it's gonna be an even more niche proposition than it is. Even if they hit that so say magic $399 that people want. It still won't catch them up.

You people want something and don't want to pay for it. Things can't stay 399 forever, inflation exists, deal with it.

 

[JackAubrey]

£450 is totally fine if you're totally fine paying it. Like I said. I'll probably bite now if they show some cool games because I bought an OLED for the pro and so far, not much is making the most of it.

But £450 isn't fine when you need to catch up by 10s of millions of consoles.

At £450 it's gonna be an even more niche proposition than it is. Even if they hit that so say magic $399 that people want. It still won't catch them up.

I think the obsession with catching up is a partisan gamer one.

MS is more interested in making money.

 

[MikeBison]

You people want something and don't want to pay for it. Things can't stay 399 forever, inflation exists, deal with it.

Rather than be a prick, read what I said. I'm probably going to buy one of these. Regardless of the price, I'm fortunate to have disposable cash for multiple consoles.

But MS are lagging so far behind. So going in at $100 more than their competitor again is going to do them no favours.

 

[chromatic9]

I might buy one. Haven't jumped in on Xbox yet this gen as PS4 has had those sweet Japanese games and exclusives. But if this shows well at the conference, I'll bite.

However, at $499 and whatever that will be in £ (probs £450 because Fuck the actual exchange rate, right) this won't help them make up any ground on Sony. Pretty brain dead move. But it costs what it costs and selling at a loss probably won't help them now anyway.

$499 converted is actually £391 then you add 20% VAT it's £469

it's a myth products don't follow exchange rate.

Xbox One launched at $499 and £429 UK

PS4 Pro launched at $399 and £330-350. Sony have been keeping the price lower than it works out. MS will probably do the same. If new Xbox is £450 and $499 US, you owe MS a thank you.

GTX 580 was $499 and £360-400. I could list a million products that follow the exchange and VAT.

 

[MikeBison]

I think the obsession with catching up is a partisan gamer one.

MS is more interested in making money.

"We don't believe in talking about console sales anymore, it's totally irrelevant."

Next month after a cheap bundle does well

"Best selling console this month, suck our dicksssss everyone else"

 

[MikeBison]

$499 converted is actually £391 then you add 20% VAT it's £469

it's a myth products don't follow exchange rate.

Xbox launched at $499 and £429 UK

PS4 Pro launched at $399 and £330-350. Sony have been keeping the price low than it works out. MS will probably do the same. If it's £450 and £499 US you owe MS a thank you.

GTX 580 was $499 and £360-400. I could list a million products that follow the exchange and VAT.

But do you get to buy things in the US without sales tax if you buy online? As that's what VAT is?

 

[ganaconda]

Xbox One Extreme or Xbox One Xtreme?

 

[mike4001_]

Geoff:

Pretty confident Xbox Scorpio will be announced for $499 today. 6tflops, 12 gig ram, UHD BluRay.

https://twitter.com/geoffkeighley/status/873914365757407232

He cannot know the price if not even Devs know it (see the reddit post).

So he ist just guessing as we are.

 

[family_guy]

But MS are lagging so far behind. So going in at $100 more than their competitor again is going to do them no favours.

Sometimes the numbers are less important than the profit margins. There are millions more Android phones and Windows PCs being sold, but Apple's high markup on iPhones and Macbook means it doesn't matter if they sell less of them.

 

[EmiPrime]

You people want something and don't want to pay for it. Things can't stay 399 forever, inflation exists, deal with it.

Wage stagnation exists. The wages of 22-30 year olds have fallen in the UK since the financial crash, young people are earning less than they were 10 years ago and in and out of work benefits have been slashed. This key demographic can't afford a price hike on a luxury such as gaming.

Those citing inflation as a reason for why this console can be $500 have no idea what they are talking about.

 

[chromatic9]

But do you get to buy things in the US without sales tax if you buy online? As that's what VAT is?

Not anymore and sales tax varies from around 0-10%

What ever your point is about sales tax it works against you initial post and really has nothing to do with dollar to pound conversion and ~20% VAT UK and Europe charge. You can forget sales tax in the US.

 

[MikeBison]

Not anymore and sales tax varies from around 0-10%

What ever your point is about sales tax it works against you initial post and really has nothing to do with dollar to pound conversion and ~20% VAT UK and Europe charge. You can forget sales tax in the US.

Well thanks for clearing that up. But it's not irrelevant if I'm asking about sales tax vs VAT when they serve the same purpose.

But point taken. It's hard to not look at the dollar price at times and feel like we're being shafted in the U.K. But pour one out for Canada ey.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Well its already happening. See the thread about $499 and sites picking it up.

Sticker-shock, maybe. The way things look right now, before we have seen everything officially announced, the options in the console market in three to four months don't really seem to paint the highest-performance 4K console at $499 as a ripoff considering the performance level, the expected software support this year, and the features. It doesn't seem justifiably negative even if the dream of charging the same price as a considerably less capable Pro might be just that. I want it for less, too, but I wasn't pinning any serious hopes on that, either. They could still surprise everyone.

 

[Colbert]

And you are a minority on hardcore game community. So that doesnt bode well.

And to narrow it down even more "within the NeoGaf Xbox Community" LOL

 

[CrustyBritches]

I personally think the Scorpio is a response to the PS4 Pro. The way they announced Xbox One S, but said, "Hey we have an even better box coming next year!" was MS trying to prevent Sony from getting even more sales and making the Xbox One look ancient. Scorpio may have been a concept for their next gen console, but Sony forced MS's hand early, so this is what we get.

Edit: Also the PS4 was cheaper and more powerful because MS focused on Kinect which cost the consumer more money.

Yeah, it could be just a "me too" product I guess.

Xbox One console had a BoM of $332 while PS4 was $348. The actual APU on the Xbox One was more expensive than the PS4, and the esram was difficult for devs. That's at the heart of the Xbone debacle, that is MS paid more for 30-40% less power.

 

[DasPenguin]

£450 is totally fine if you're totally fine paying it. Like I said. I'll probably bite now if they show some cool games because I bought an OLED for the pro and so far, not much is making the most of it.

But £450 isn't fine when you need to catch up by 10s of millions of consoles.

At £450 it's gonna be an even more niche proposition than it is. Even if they hit that so say magic $399 that people want. It still won't catch them up.

It's a midlife refresh aimed at a very small audience. 399 or 499, who cares? MS isn't thinking that Scorpio will close the sales gap. It won't. The cheaper model will be their top seller regardless of the price. They are just trying to fix their image for next gen. Unless they start giving out machines for free, nothing is closing down that gap this gen.

 

[RobRivers]

More than 399€ is expensive, hope it does not pass this price tag :/

 

[godhandiscen]

Scorpio costing less than $499 is now as unlikely as #CAVSIN7

 

[Zyae]

Wage stagnation exists. The wages of 22-30 year olds have fallen in the UK since the financial crash, young people are earning less than they were 10 years ago and in and out of work benefits have been slashed. This key demographic can't afford a price hike on a luxury such as gaming.

Those citing inflation as a reason for why this console can be $500 have no idea what they are talking about.

Cell phones are 600+

So what's the fucking hype for a niche console aimed at the existing and paltry Xbox One install base? lol. Why wait a year for a Jag/Polaris-based console that's $100 more than the competition. Can't be like PS4 and launch $100 cheaper and offer more power? Out of concern for them, $499 actually has an adverse affect on the brand. Better if it didn't exist and the money went elsewhere if you're not aiming at mindshare.

P.S.- The Xbox 360 was $399 and had a BoM of like $525. There was value and excitement. Guess we'll see in a few hours.

Paltry Xbox one install base? That's ridiculous hyperbole.

 

[EmiPrime]

Cell phones are 600+

So what? Not everyone owns an expensive flagship and not everybody buys their phone off contract. There are other options.

Also phones are more essential to everyday life than a games console.

 

[professor_t]

I'm sorry, but it will sell just fine to the early adopters who have the means - or will simply make the sacrifices - to purchase a $500 device.

Yes, people will be pissed because it's a product they want and can't afford, but over time the price will drop and those folks will have an opportunity to buy-in. If it's still a desirable product at that point that allows them to play great games - and probably the best 3rd party games on any console - they won't care that it launched at a price they couldn't afford.

That's life.

 

[Fallout-with-swords]

Cell phones are 600+

Phones are subsidized though

 

[nhlducks35]

Cell phones are 600+




Paltry Xbox one install base? That's ridiculous hyperbole.

Right, because the use of a smartphone and 4K gaming console is totally the same

 

[chromatic9]

Well thanks for clearing that up. But it's not irrelevant if I'm asking about sales tax vs VAT when they serve the same purpose.

But point taken. It's hard to not look at the dollar price at times and feel like we're being shafted in the U.K. But pour one out for Canada ey.

$499 plus 6% sales tax would be about $530. We'd pay ~£469 if MS work things out accordingly. US sales tax doesn't have any bearing on what the exchange rate and VAT is.

Euro zone countries do get the shaft often. MS in 2013 launched the Xbox at $499 and 499 euro while UK was £429. Europe got the price rounded up. Think it worked out to 470 euro at the time.

We'll see what MS do for UK. Almost always things get worked out accordingly. it would be suicide to round up the UK to £500 for example but anything can happen. All I'm saying is have a moan if when and it does. 20% VAT is the killer and it's Europe wide now. I grew up with 15% VAT.

 

[Zyae]

You guys are acting like a 500 console is absurd. It's definitely on the higher side but it's completely reasonable for a high end device

 

[iMax]

Cell phones are 600+

How many people buy cell phones upfront?

 

[thatJohann]

What if they announced $349? Would you get it?

 

[chromatic9]

Euro price is going to be interesting

Phil Spencer announced $499 €499 £429 on stage at E3 2013 for Xbox One

Euro exchange and VAT in 2017 would put a $499 system at €535 and potential to be rounded up to €550 as the € and $ are very close now

I've got a feeling MS will have to play around with the expectations of the regions. If the system comes in at $449 then it can be tolerable when converted normally but psychologically, if it's $499 and purely converted into £470 and €535-550 then it's not going to go down well in Europe. Similar to the reaction of HTC Vive price in Euros once converted with 20% VAT added on.

 

[CrustyBritches]

Cell phones are 600+




Paltry Xbox one install base? That's ridiculous hyperbole.

Hyperbole?
Microsoft, 2013: “We think you can go broader than a game console, that’s our aim, and you can go from 400 million to potentially upwards of a billion units."

People want a console built for the $399 pricepoint. I predict a $399 Scorpio will do quite well, but $499 will be extremely niche.

 

[Fredrik]

I can pay up to a max of £425 quid day one if it comes with say an elite controller or something. Any more than that, I'm going to wait. Its not that I can't afford paying more, its that I don't want to.

That's how I'm thinking too, if it's just an upgrade then it can't have the price above a new gen console in my opinion. I'm sure some games will still be like on the original console just like it is on Pro so the price can't be too high.
$399 would be perfect. I would preorder as soon as I could.
$449 would make me hesitate but with features cool enough and very apparent improvements over XB1 I could see myself jumping in anyway.
$499 would make me wait for PS5 instead and play MS exclusives on the PC.

 

[VoodooProject]

That's how I'm thinking too, if it's just an upgrade then it can't have the price above a new gen console in my opinion. I'm sure some games will still be like on the original console just like it is on Pro so the price can't be too high.
$399 would be perfect. I would preorder as soon as I could.
$449 would make me hesitate but with features cool enough and very apparent improvements over XB1 I could see myself jumping in anyway.
$499 would make me wait for PS5 instead and play MS exclusives on the PC.

The release of the Ps4 was $399. The Ps4 pro is at $399 now. So my guess is that ps4 pro is a next gen console.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Wage stagnation exists. The wages of 22-30 year olds have fallen in the UK since the financial crash, young people are earning less than they were 10 years ago and in and out of work benefits have been slashed. This key demographic can't afford a price hike on a luxury such as gaming.

Those citing inflation as a reason for why this console can be $500 have no idea what they are talking about.

It's what it is. Inflation exists, luxury items exit, I don't expect a brand new car for the price of a second hand one just because I've not had a pay rise in 3 years. That's not how it works. People have to pay what something is worth. It's a fact. I don't want to pay more, but I look at what you get here and expect I'd have to pay more. It's not a base model, they've told us it's premium, so I expect a premium price, anything less is a bonus.

If a company doesn't think a product will sell in market conditions they will cut corners to reach a marketable price. But MS already have a base model out there that fulfils that objective so it all depends on how aggressively they want to push this to market, or as they have said many times, that this will not be the bulk of their sales going forward. So I expect a >400 price based on the above. I'm just being a realist.

You'll see in about 4 hours how they want to push this to market, but I'm expecting a >400 price, any thing less is a bonus, but I am not going to be disappointed if it is.

 

[gamz]

That's how I'm thinking too, if it's just an upgrade then it can't have the price above a new gen console in my opinion. I'm sure some games will still be like on the original console just like it is on Pro so the price can't be too high.
$399 would be perfect. I would preorder as soon as I could.
$449 would make me hesitate but with features cool enough and very apparent improvements over XB1 I could see myself jumping in anyway.
$499 would make me wait for PS5 instead and play MS exclusives on the PC.

So for 100 bucks more you are willing to wait another two years for the PS5? Okay...

 

[blackdevil]

Sucks major ass if true. Feels like DOA at that price. Still getting it but extremely disappointed.

Now I'm REALLY hoping they bring exclusives. Otherwise, they've learned nothing.

AAA exclusives? in a time when they release xbox games on Windows? yeah not gonna happen ever again.

 

[Colonel Nasty]

This was their chance to bring in new users to the Xbox ecosystem and if it's not priced competitively with the competition it's not gonna change anyone's mind. This will sell to a subset of the existing Xbox user base.

 

[PaNaMa]

It can't be $499, not if it's using the old Jaguar. If it was Zen or whatever, then I'd expect $499. But it costs them nothing to overclock that old chip, beyond improved cooling (maybe $10-15 per unit?). The GPU is the real bump. Gosh, I don't know, $499 USD seems like a lot.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

This was their chance to bring in new users to the Xbox ecosystem and if it's not priced competitively with the competition it's not gonna change anyone's mind. This will sell to a subset of the existing Xbox user base.

Nah, I don't see it. There has to be vastly larger numbers of potential new users that are itching to spend $199 to get a current-gen console than the group willing to spend $399 on their platform entry point. This is an enthusiast-class model like it always was spoken about.

 

[marciocdb]

USD 499 is f***ed up...
USD 399 or USD 449 max....

No way they would recover market share with a USD 499 console when PS4 Pro is priced at USD 399...

 

[kungfuian]

To think of Scorpio as a mid-gen refresh or enthusiast box is not the complete picture. If everything they release going forward is iterative (no more new generations per say), forward/backward compatible, and play anywhere, then each new box (Scorpio and whatever comes after it) will be mid gen upgrades, enthusiast products, and their NEXT GEN BOX all in one.

From a platform and marketing perspective this is very different from what Sony is doing (at least for now). Sony is treating the Pro like a mid-gen upgrade only with every indication they will be releasing a PS5 down the road.

It's a battle of business models more than anything else and it will be interesting to see how this plays out for both companies over the next few years.

 

[DasPenguin]

To think of Scorpio as a mid-gen refresh or enthusiast box is not the complete picture. If everything they release going forward is iterative (no more new generations per say), forward/backward compatible, and play anywhere, then each new box (Scorpio and whatever comes after it) will be mid gen upgrades, enthusiast products, and their NEXT GEN BOX all in one.

From a platform and marketing perspective this is very different from what Sony is doing (at least for now). Sony is treating the Pro like a mid-gen upgrade only with every indication they will be releasing a PS5 down the road.

It's a battle of business models more than anything else and it will be interesting to see how this plays out for both companies over the next few years.

True, but everything suggests that Sony will also make the next console backwards compatible with PS4.

 

[munster]

I think Sony said that 1 in 5 PS4s sold is a Pro.

So I don't think a whole lot will be jumping on the Scorpio at £450.

 

[munster]

True, but everything suggests that Sony will also make the next console backwards compatible with PS4.

It's much easier to maintain backwards compatibility whilst staying with a PC styled architecture, for future products. They just need to update the CPU, RAM, and GFX. As most PC users do.

 

[Zedox]

Even if it is $499...show me why that price is justified. I'm prolly still gonna get it for dev purposes. ☺