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Zapper packaging + Link's Crossbow Training gameplay details
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AnGeL LiveWii
Member
We got better quality
Seems really good !
Seems really good !
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
not sure you can do that
Hmm... okay, I'll agree that Zelda, as a character in any form, was more actively involved throughout Ocarina and Wind Waker -- I'm just saying I liked her role in Twilight Princess more, if only because she actually acts like a monarch for the first time. I felt like her actions and decisions had more significance because she was working on a larger scale -- perhaps she made some questionable choices and she DID have to get saved in the end, but she was struggling to save her people throughout the game. The
scene was particularly interesting, although they appeared to forget about that later in the game when they brought her back with no explanation.
I'm just more satisfied with her portrayal in TP, as she seems to act more like a princess of a country would act. Ocarina's Zelda was interesting (if a bit more misguided), and Wind Waker was more of a side story as far as her character development went.
"sacrifice her presence in the world to save Midna"
I'm just more satisfied with her portrayal in TP, as she seems to act more like a princess of a country would act. Ocarina's Zelda was interesting (if a bit more misguided), and Wind Waker was more of a side story as far as her character development went.
A Black Falcon
Member
DavidDayton said:
First: how was Ocarina's princess misguided? Explain...
While I'll say more, I guess the central question I have can be summed up as "How, exactly, is Zelda acting like a monarch during the events of TP?"
Zelda did not just 'have to get saved in the end'. The whole plot of the game is essentially 'save Zelda!'. There's a princess in a tower, an evil king taking over the realm, a hero needed to save the day... quite traditional themes there, though of course Midna mixes things up a bit, and the presentation is amazing.
Other things about what you said trouble me too... Working on a larger scale? Saving people? Huh? What are you referring to here? I mean, she saves Midna once, but other than that? Outside of that one cutscene you see when you first meet her, which tells the backstory, she doesn't really do any ruling at all in the game, I thought. Sitting locked up in a tower feeling bad about your past actions isn't ruling... well it could be, but it sure isn't effective ruling!
I mean... where does Zelda actually show up in TP?
1. When you meet her and she tells you how Twilight conquered Hyrule
2. When she saves Midna and disappears
3. When she returns and helps defeat Ganon
While I will certainly admit that Zelda shows a somewhat regal bearing during these scenes, only in the last of these three cases was Zelda even debatably the instigator of anything. In the first two her role is simply reactive, not active -- She provides backstory when prompted to in the first encounter and helps a character when prompted to in the second encounter. Only when she assists in the events around the final battle does she perhaps actually initiate an event... and even there her hand is somewhat forced because when she comes back (is separated from Ganon) she HAS to do something.
She is of course also a symbol of the nation, and is mentioned as such a few times, but I'd think that that would only enhance my original complaint: that Zelda should have not stayed in the tower and instead should have taken a more active role in the resistence from a much earlier point in the game. Moral support from afar? Perhaps... but given the situation that's not enough.
Anyway, going back. Link meets Zelda and learns of the conquest of Hyrule. How active was her role in the backstory? We don't know. All we see is her "choice" between immediate destruction and the nation being taken over by twilight, and that really wasn't much of a choice... the game refers to her 'choice' multiple times, but what ELSE should she have done? Getting killed or something wouldn't help anything... no, I'd call that scene reaction. Zelda waiting in the tower between the time of the conquest and Link's arrival makes some sense given the plot -- Link as the typical Chosen One is needed to save the day so she's waiting for him -- but after that... what exactly does she do, between then and when you see her next? Anything at all? Not much to nothing, I think.
In the second scene, when giving her power to Midna (only needed because of injury to a main character), Zelda says this...
There are several ways to interpret parts of this, I think. The obvious part is Zelda saying that it's all her fault (The truth of this is debatable... I mean, she really didn't have a choice...). Beyond that, I'd say that Zelda is blaming herself for everything, and feels guilty that Midna is suffering for 'something I did'. That's not really true either, given Midna's backstory and all, but if she wants to feel sorry for herself that won't stop her. Zelda, Midna, and Link were all faced with very difficult situations, but of the three Zelda seems to have taken it hardest (arguably; Midna has serious troubles too, but she keeps going despite them... Zelda doesn't so much.). It's only at the very end of the game, just before the final boss fight, that Zelda finally becomes an active player in the game's events.
I think that my initial comparison -- to the Zelda of LttP -- is mostly appropriate. (in a somewhat unrelated note, the nature of the final battle - Zelda with light arrows, Link with sword -- is a theme they seem to like... not just from WW, but also from the LttP NP comic (in the final battle vs. Ganon Link couldn't hurt Ganon until Zelda shot him with a Light Arrow...), etc... kind of a nice reference to a common theme in the series. The ending's not bad either. That doesn't erase the problems though, as far as Zelda herself is concerned... ending in particular, given how it reinforces the main fact of the game: Midna is the important character with the active role. Not Zelda. Zelda's role is filler. In the end Nintendo should have either left her out, MM/LA style, or given her a more important role, WW/OoT style.)
I mean... where does Zelda actually show up in TP?
1. When you meet her and she tells you how Twilight conquered Hyrule
2. When she saves Midna and disappears
3. When she returns and helps defeat Ganon
While I will certainly admit that Zelda shows a somewhat regal bearing during these scenes, only in the last of these three cases was Zelda even debatably the instigator of anything. In the first two her role is simply reactive, not active -- She provides backstory when prompted to in the first encounter and helps a character when prompted to in the second encounter. Only when she assists in the events around the final battle does she perhaps actually initiate an event... and even there her hand is somewhat forced because when she comes back (is separated from Ganon) she HAS to do something.
She is of course also a symbol of the nation, and is mentioned as such a few times, but I'd think that that would only enhance my original complaint: that Zelda should have not stayed in the tower and instead should have taken a more active role in the resistence from a much earlier point in the game. Moral support from afar? Perhaps... but given the situation that's not enough.
Anyway, going back. Link meets Zelda and learns of the conquest of Hyrule. How active was her role in the backstory? We don't know. All we see is her "choice" between immediate destruction and the nation being taken over by twilight, and that really wasn't much of a choice... the game refers to her 'choice' multiple times, but what ELSE should she have done? Getting killed or something wouldn't help anything... no, I'd call that scene reaction. Zelda waiting in the tower between the time of the conquest and Link's arrival makes some sense given the plot -- Link as the typical Chosen One is needed to save the day so she's waiting for him -- but after that... what exactly does she do, between then and when you see her next? Anything at all? Not much to nothing, I think.
In the second scene, when giving her power to Midna (only needed because of injury to a main character), Zelda says this...
There are several ways to interpret parts of this, I think. The obvious part is Zelda saying that it's all her fault (The truth of this is debatable... I mean, she really didn't have a choice...). Beyond that, I'd say that Zelda is blaming herself for everything, and feels guilty that Midna is suffering for 'something I did'. That's not really true either, given Midna's backstory and all, but if she wants to feel sorry for herself that won't stop her. Zelda, Midna, and Link were all faced with very difficult situations, but of the three Zelda seems to have taken it hardest (arguably; Midna has serious troubles too, but she keeps going despite them... Zelda doesn't so much.). It's only at the very end of the game, just before the final boss fight, that Zelda finally becomes an active player in the game's events.
I think that my initial comparison -- to the Zelda of LttP -- is mostly appropriate. (in a somewhat unrelated note, the nature of the final battle - Zelda with light arrows, Link with sword -- is a theme they seem to like... not just from WW, but also from the LttP NP comic (in the final battle vs. Ganon Link couldn't hurt Ganon until Zelda shot him with a Light Arrow...), etc... kind of a nice reference to a common theme in the series. The ending's not bad either. That doesn't erase the problems though, as far as Zelda herself is concerned... ending in particular, given how it reinforces the main fact of the game: Midna is the important character with the active role. Not Zelda. Zelda's role is filler. In the end Nintendo should have either left her out, MM/LA style, or given her a more important role, WW/OoT style.)
lebowsky said:
MSRP= Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price. Stores can charge more or less if they want (like how FYE thinks people are stupid enough to pay $40 for Ping Pals :lol )
Does anyone know if the game will come in a normal keep case, or will it come in a stupid cardboard sleeve (ala Wii Sports and Metroid Prime Hunters: First Hunt)?
A Black Falcon said:
Drat... now I feel fuzzy on story details. I thought the point of Ocarina was that Zelda's early attempts at getting/protecting the Triforce are what led to Ganon getting the Triforce himself. She was well intentioned, but her guiding Link around led to Ganon easily tracking them both down... bah. I remember there being SOME story element where Zelda's actions led to the future calamity, but now my mind is blank. Why does Zelda feel guilty at the end of Ocarina, again?
As far as Twilight Princess goes, I thought that Zelda taking the calm approach and being willing to be taken prisoner (which would sort of go against the general "FIGHT TO THE END" thing) in an effort to somehow find a way to save the kingdom showed more restraint and good sense than we'd seen in her in a while. That, and her doing SOMETHING to give up part of her... resistance to the darkness? Whatever it was that altered her when she revived Midna.
Maybe active is a very poor choice of words... however, Zelda seemed to make much harder and far-reaching decisions in TP, have a more mature understanding of the issues, and was more able to make sacrifices for the potential good of the kingdom. Presuming she knew that someone should come...
Did we ever have a good idea of why Midna and Zelda were in league to begin with?
DavidDayton said:
Ah..you're right. Zelda screwed up. Because of Zelda, Link opened the Door of Time and let Ganondorf access it. I imagine that even though the world would go through some tough times, if Zelda did not put Link on that quest Link could've went into hiding and Ganondorf would've never ever found the last stone even if he retrieved the other 2.
FieryBalrog
Member
Nintendo never whores out its franchises :lol
FieryBalrog
Member
Lobster said:
All I know is, Nintendo is pretty much stooping to parody itselfat this point. This is something people would have brought up as a farce/joke in the first years of the DS's mini/non-game flood.