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Axass · Jun 19, 2014

That GAF overreaction.

Look, I'm drooling, almost literally, at the thought of the Oculus Rift and of the Morpheus. I can't wait to try them in person, to finally achieve the dream I had since I was little.

But Miyamoto's right, there's no two ways to slice it, he didn't use the word alone as a pejorative, it was just a matter of fact statement: the only multiplayer experiences you will have through the Rift will be online. Playing with a friend in the same room, both with the Rift on, would destroy the main purpose of the device: immersion.

To be blunt that's a thing that kind of scares me about VR, I never bought the whole "games are bad, they make you lose contact with reality". But with VR I'm not so sure, it seems to be something absolutely overwhelming. Human interactions are shallow enough as is.

I can appreciate such an experience in short bursts, but I wouldn't like all gaming to be like that, just like online multiplayer shouldn't completely substitute split-screen and co-op shouldn't replace single player.

Muscle Wizard · Jun 19, 2014

InsaneZero said:
Well, VR is inherently isolating by design, as your sight (and sound) is supposed to be completely dominated by the device. Achieving that also means that it is difficult to share the experience with others when only one person can view the display at any given time. So I can see why Miyamoto would be somewhat uneasy with it given Nintendo's focus on local multiplayer experiences.

Although judging from this thread it sounds like Miyamoto took a flamethrower to the Oculus Rift display at E3.

We're nerds on the internet, of course we make mountains out of molehills.

InsaneZero · Jun 19, 2014

Spaghetti said:
hello, this is a quote where miyamoto completely ignores the fact that this is effectively the description for the entire single player experience in all video games since the beginning of the medium in order to poo-poo vr

Considering that you're talking about the same guy that made one of the most renowned single-player based game of all time amongst many others, I think you're probably reading too much into a quote.

Muscle Wizard · Jun 19, 2014

Axass said:
That GAF overreaction.

Look, I'm drooling, almost literally, at the thought of the Oculus Rift and of the Morpheus. I can't wait to try them in person, to finally achieve the dream I had since I was little.

But Miyamoto's right, there's no two ways to slice it: he didn't use the word alone as a pejorative, it was just a matter of fact statement: the only multiplayer experiences you will have through the Rift will be online. Playing with a friend in the same room, both with the Rift on, would destroy the main purpose of the device: immersion.

To be blunt that's a thing that kind of scares me about VR, I never bought the whole "games are bad, they make you lose contact with reality". But with VR I'm not so sure, it seems to be something absolutely overwhelming. Human interactions are shallow enough as is.

I can appreciate such an experience in short bursts, but I wouldn't like all gaming to be like that, just like online multiplayer shouldn't completely substitute split-screen and co-op shouldn't replace single player.

That fear is not unfounded as there have been tons of anime sex games developed for the Oculus already.

watershed · Jun 19, 2014

YuShtink said:
Who the fuck cares? I told you it annoyed me. That's why I posted in the first place. What are you my psychologist?

I responded to your original post, then you responded to mine, so on and so forth. You know how forums work right?

Nintendo doesn't like what you like or do what you do. They make games their way. If you want to act like Nintendo collectively ran over your puppies and kicked your cats then feel free. But again you are on a forum.

Stinkles · Jun 19, 2014

Bankoiia said:
Sounds very much like that one famous quote from Hiroshi Yamauchi.

I guess you could say Yamauchi was talking about some dark souls.

Murder. She Wrote · Jun 19, 2014

Nintendo was last to do online, last to do HD, and will be last to do VR.

One day VR will be an extremely social medium, I don't understand how Miyamoto cannot see that. Man, if only Yokoi was still alive...

Crimsonclaw111 · Jun 19, 2014

I would love to see a Metroid game with Oculus support though. I mean, Alien Isolation is looking pretty awesome already

rpmurphy · Jun 19, 2014

I'd like to see where VR goes as a technology, but I'd have to try out the Oculus sometime... the last time I tried VR was in a museum. lol

As far as solitary play vs. group play goes, if Nintendo does look into it, I'm sure they'll find some interesting ways to use it. Stuff like the giant robot and base defense games they showed at E3 would probably suit VR about as much as the GamePad.

vareon · Jun 19, 2014

I agree with him, but I don't want this to be an excuse not to innovate in the field.

I would be a bit uneasy if I see my kid spent 2 hours on a VR machine in his room, god knows what he's doing. It just feels disconnected (though he might be connected to somewhere else in the world!).

Then again, it is a very interesting field and I'd like to see people doing interesting things about it. Maybe not from Nintendo, then.

chadboban · Jun 19, 2014

Spaghetti said:
hello, this is a quote where miyamoto completely ignores the fact that this is effectively the description for the entire single player experience in all video games since the beginning of the medium in order to poo-poo vr

Did he say that it was bad? Cause, you know, that's kinda what "poo poo" would imply.

Spineker · Jun 19, 2014

chadboban said:
Did he say that it was bad? Cause, you know, that's kinda what "poo poo" would imply.

He implied that using VR was an inherently negative experience, therefore poo pooing it.

Garcia · Jun 19, 2014

Nothing wrong with that, but I also see VR as an interesting way to do local Co-op once the sets aren't too expensive.

Stinkles · Jun 19, 2014

Axass said:
That GAF overreaction.

Look, I'm drooling, almost literally, at the thought of the Oculus Rift and of the Morpheus. I can't wait to try them in person, to finally achieve the dream I had since I was little.

But Miyamoto's right, there's no two ways to slice it, he didn't use the word alone as a pejorative, it was just a matter of fact statement: the only multiplayer experiences you will have through the Rift will be online. Playing with a friend in the same room, both with the Rift on, would destroy the main purpose of the device: immersion.

To be blunt that's a thing that kind of scares me about VR, I never bought the whole "games are bad, they make you lose contact with reality". But with VR I'm not so sure, it seems to be something absolutely overwhelming. Human interactions are shallow enough as is.

I can appreciate such an experience in short bursts, but I wouldn't like all gaming to be like that, just like online multiplayer shouldn't completely substitute split-screen and co-op shouldn't replace single player.

So you literally can't think of experiences where three helmeted people in the same room can be enjoying the same experience that's actually enhanced by VR? I can think of dozens - from rollercoaster rides to light saber battles. Imagine playing a totally immersive version of evolved.

The real barrier isn't experiential or habitual - it's tech - four headsets with one CPU unit would impact fidelity.

Jintor · Jun 19, 2014

Spineker said:
He implied that using VR was an inherently negative experience, therefore poo pooing it.

He implies it's isolationist, and I guess negativity attaches to isolationism.

I don't really agree with him though, the potential for VR multiplayer interaction is pretty interesting

Axass · Jun 19, 2014

Bankoiia said:
Sounds very much like that one famous quote from Hiroshi Yamauchi.

Only thing is Yamauchi's quote was baseless and insulting for no reason, while Miyamoto has a solid basis for what he says, and he's not offending anyone.

Spaghetti said:
hello, this is a quote where miyamoto completely ignores the fact that this is effectively the description for the entire single player experience in all video games since the beginning of the medium in order to poo-poo vr

When you play single player people can partecipate, by looking over your shoulder, asking questions, reacting to what they see, helping you, etc.

With VR not so much, you truly are alone.

Spineker · Jun 19, 2014

Jintor said:
He implies it's isolationist, and I guess negativity attaches to isolationism.

I don't really agree with him though, the potential for VR multiplayer interaction is pretty interesting

That's the thing though, gaming is an isolationist hobby, and usually by choice.

This is is just another classic case of Nintendo trying to have their cake and eat it too, or to put it more directly, failing to recognize who it is that they're trying to provide a service to.

If Nintendo are not careful about this, they will make the same mistakes they made with Wii U all over again.

StevieP · Jun 19, 2014

Stinkles said:
So you literally can't think of experiences where three helmeted people in the same room can be enjoying the same experience that's actually enhanced by VR? I can think of dozens - from rollercoaster rides to light saber battles. Imagine playing a totally immersive version of evolved.

The real barrier isn't experiential or habitual - it's tech - four headsets with one CPU unit would impact fidelity.

This is one or two generations away. The tech as it is now? He isn't making an incorrect statement.

Effer · Jun 19, 2014

CountAntonius said:
Someone shop him into a corner.

Only you can stop this from happening, Miyamoto!

(art shamelessly stolen from here.)

Muscle Wizard · Jun 19, 2014

Jintor said:
He implies it's isolationist, and I guess negativity attaches to isolationism.

I don't really agree with him though, the potential for VR multiplayer interaction is pretty interesting

Sounds like people here are being reactionary because it sounded like Miyamoto calling them shut-ins.

xxracerxx · Jun 19, 2014

Effer said:
Only you can stop this from happening, Miyamoto!

(art shamelessly stolen from here.)

The VR glasses being worn really should be the Virtual Boy.

Tidus_Great · Jun 19, 2014

still trying to ride the flash in the pan Wii Success eh Nintendo? because holding a big tablet isn't much better than stupid goggles

chadboban · Jun 19, 2014

Spineker said:
He implied that using VR was an inherently negative experience, therefore poo pooing it.

When you think about what virtual reality is, which is one person putting on some goggles and playing by themselves kind of over in a corner, or maybe they go into a separate room and they spend all their time alone playing in that virtual reality, thats in direct contrast with what it is were trying to achieve with Wii U. And so I have a little bit of uneasiness with whether or not thats the best way for people to play.

The only thing I would even remotely call negative is the when he said he was uneasy of whether it's the best way to play. He NEVER implies that VR is a negative experience. Why would he say Nintendo is looking into something that he, as you imply, believes to be "an inherently negative experience"?

Solid Samus · Jun 19, 2014

StevieP said:
This is one or two generations away. The tech as it is now? He isn't making an incorrect statement.

local multiplayer vr lightsaber bttles are 'one or two generations away'?

sheesh, I'm super optimistic about VR but even then I think some of y'all are reaching just a bit

Muscle Wizard · Jun 19, 2014

Spineker said:
That's the thing though, gaming is an isolationist hobby, and usually by choice.

This is is just another classic case of Nintendo trying to have their cake and eat it too, or to put it more directly, failing to recognize who it is that they're trying to provide a service to.

If Nintendo are not careful about this, they will make the same mistakes they made with Wii U all over again.

Speak for yourself pal, but I didn't entomb myself away from society when I decided I liked and want to play games.

rpmurphy · Jun 19, 2014

Spineker said:
He implied that using VR was an inherently negative experience, therefore poo pooing it.

Miyamoto: VR doesn't suit the home game experiences that Nintendo wants to do with the Wii U involving group play.

Reduction: Nintendo is shitting all over VR.

Metal B · Jun 19, 2014

Jintor said:
I don't really agree with him though, the potential for VR multiplayer interaction is pretty interesting

Yes, Online- or Lan-Multiplayer. But not like sitting next to your friend and hitting him for hitting you with a red shell. There different kind of experiences with a big focus on social-connection, which is an important part of a healthy person.

Hale-XF11 · Jun 19, 2014

Seanspeed said:
I see a lot of people assuming that VR is only for single player and online multiplayer.

Is there some reason that you cant do local multiplayer in VR that I'm missing? I understand it'll be difficult at first, but it should work just fine and be a ton of fun with other people. Just because you have a headset on doesn't mean you're permanently locked out from the world for the next few hours. You can pass around a headset like you pass around a controller. Not quite as easily, but as headsets get lighter and better designed, it wont be hugely difficult or anything and it'll be worth it.

Sony has a great solution that they've already demonstrated. One person has a headset on while another person watches the action on a monitor and can join in to play co-op if they want. Alternatively, two or more people can have headsets on (on PC) and interact with one another locally or online.

Spineker · Jun 19, 2014

Tidus_Great said:
still trying to ride the flash in the pan Wii Success eh Nintendo? because holding a big tablet isn't much better than stupid goggles

This pretty much nails it. Why is it so hard for Nintendo to realize their Wii market are now playing games on their phone and nowhere else?

chadboban said:
The only thing I would even remotely call negative is the when he said he was uneasy of whether it's the best way to play. He NEVER implies that VR is a negative experience. Why would he say Nintendo is looking into something that he, as you imply, believes to be "an inherently negative experience"?

It's a negative experience when compared to what Nintendo's "philosophies" are, and don't harmonize with them. the same philosophies which are failing them.

Stinkles · Jun 19, 2014

StevieP said:
This is one or two generations away. The tech as it is now? He isn't making an incorrect statement.

The tech is viable and available for purchase this very afternoon. Most of the software is demo stuff, but it is absolutely ready for prime time.

But this is a forum where people claim single touch resistive screens are inherently superior to multitouch capacitive screens, so I don't expect much support on this.

EventHorizon · Jun 19, 2014

Translation
Miyamoto: VR was a great idea back when we thought we could be the only ones doing it, but now there is too much competition so we have to downplay it even though the tech has finally caught up to our vision.

SummitAve · Jun 19, 2014

Spineker said:
That's the thing though, gaming is an isolationist hobby, and usually by choice.

This is is just another classic case of Nintendo trying to have their cake and eat it too, or to put it more directly, failing to recognize who it is that they're trying to provide a service to.

If Nintendo are not careful about this, they will make the same mistakes they made with Wii U all over again.

Speak for yourself, my gaming hobby is very social.

Uno Venova · Jun 19, 2014

rpmurphy said:
Miyamoto: VR doesn't suit the home game experiences that Nintendo wants to do with the Wii U involving group play.

Reduction: Nintendo is shitting all over VR.

We do that here a lot.

KingSnake · Jun 19, 2014

Spineker said:
This pretty much nails it. Why is it so hard for Nintendo to realize their Wii market are now playing games on their phone and nowhere else?

Yeah, Nintendo should do VR for phones.

old manatee · Jun 19, 2014

I like to play games by myself and with other people.

Antiwhippy · Jun 19, 2014

Metal B said:
Yes, Online- or Lan-Multiplayer. But not like sitting next to your friend and hitting him for hitting you with a red shell. There different kind of experiences with a big focus on social-connection, which is an important part of a healthy person.

Nah.

Give me VR instead.

Also I'm healthy enough thank you very much.

bart64 · Jun 19, 2014

Isn't it healthy to be skeptical of VR? Are we all ready to jump into a fake reality head first? Is it even tolerable for long periods; maybe tv gaming will prove to be more comfortable? There's a lot of strong opinions here coming from people who have never even tried it, let alone played it for more than a few minutes.

Axass · Jun 19, 2014

Stinkles said:
So you literally can't think of experiences where three helmeted people in the same room can be enjoying the same experience that's actually enhanced by VR? I can think of dozens - from rollercoaster rides to light saber battles. Imagine playing a totally immersive version of evolved.

The real barrier isn't experiential or habitual - it's tech - four headsets with one CPU unit would impact fidelity.

I didn't say there's no way to do co-op in the same room with VR, I said it'd probably break absolute immersion, which is what VR strives for. So I think we won't see many games in that vein.

Spineker said:
That's the thing though, gaming is an isolationist hobby, and usually by choice.

Not really, at least not for me. I happened to be alone in the past, so games were all I had. Wasn't a choice though, now I'm more than happy to play with my girlfriend (even single player games), it's way better than playing alone.

StevieP · Jun 19, 2014

Stinkles said:
The tech is viable and available for purchase this very afternoon. Most of the software is demo stuff, but it is absolutely ready for prime time.

But this is a forum where people claim single touch resistive screens are inherently superior to multitouch capacitive screens, so I don't expect much support on this.

There are applications where resistive screens are better. There are others where capacitive makes more sense, such a touch phones. But this is a discussion for another thread. That isn't an opinion of mine as much as it is a fact.

The tech I was talking about (multiplayer interaction with multiple headsets and layers) is the same one you mention that there isn't enough computing power to facilitate. And that won't be feasible in any mass market aspect for at least a generation's length. (Assuming each gen lasts approximately half a decade)

Spineker · Jun 19, 2014

KingSnake said:
Yeah, Nintendo should do VR for phones.

Samsung have them covered there, and it is a dumb idea.

demosthenes · Jun 19, 2014

The Lamonster said:
Nintendo really loves that cave they're living in.

First post did it for me. Second wasn't bad either.

Really disagree w/ Miyamoto here, and I think he'll be eating his words a year from now.

-Horizon- · Jun 19, 2014

To people who have tried VR, how accommodating is it for people who wear glasses?

Bluemercury · Jun 19, 2014

Hes right.

Spineker · Jun 19, 2014

-Horizon- said:
To people who have tried VR, how accommodating is it for people who wear glasses?

Very. There are specific lenses for people who use glasses that can be attached to the device. No need to wear them at all.

mario_O · Jun 19, 2014

Axass said:
That GAF overreaction.

Look, I'm drooling, almost literally, at the thought of the Oculus Rift and of the Morpheus. I can't wait to try them in person, to finally achieve the dream I had since I was little.

But Miyamoto's right, there's no two ways to slice it, he didn't use the word alone as a pejorative, it was just a matter of fact statement: the only multiplayer experiences you will have through the Rift will be online. Playing with a friend in the same room, both with the Rift on, would destroy the main purpose of the device: immersion.

To be blunt that's a thing that kind of scares me about VR, I never bought the whole "games are bad, they make you lose contact with reality". But with VR I'm not so sure, it seems to be something absolutely overwhelming. Human interactions are shallow enough as is.

I can appreciate such an experience in short bursts, but I wouldn't like all gaming to be like that, just like online multiplayer shouldn't completely substitute split-screen and co-op shouldn't replace single player.

There will be local multiplayer for VR too. You can see how the Oculus uses two screens: the Rift and a TV/ monitor. There are already ideas for a second player to use the TV for local co-op etc. In fact, today, most of the videos on youtube of the Oculus, are groups of people trying it together; It's a social thing too. As another poster before said, it kinda reminds me of when the Wii was first released and people were trying motion controls for the first time.

Synless · Jun 19, 2014

The Technomancer said:
I had a feeling his reception would be like this. In the last decade or so he's been all about video games creating real world togetherness and such

I don't nessecarily disagree with him. VR will be great for immersion and great for online connectivity, but Nintendo has been going hard in on the local aspect for ages now. Not just local multiplayer but just trying to engage people with the people around them

They believe on being social and personal. Something society as a whole is failing at.

Bluemercury · Jun 19, 2014

demosthenes said:
First post did it for me. Second wasn't bad either.

Really disagree w/ Miyamoto here, and I think he'll be eating his words a year from now.

Sony doesnt believe either considering the time they gave to their morpheus project at e3.

Azure Dream · Jun 19, 2014

It also gets tiring when you hear a developer discount interaction with others online as "real" interaction. One of the first popular VR demos was "Let's gather into this virtual theater and share a movie experience together."

It's the same reasoning Nintendo, and Square, used to explain away lack of online content for a long while. "Why isn't this online?" "Well, we feel this game is better when you gather with your friends and family on the couch, and not strangers on the internet." "But I have friends on the internet." But no, to them, the living room is key, and if someone else can't be in that living room with you, fuck 'em.

On a side note, here's a clever "shared experience" VR idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WYs3Xxh3XE

glaringradio · Jun 19, 2014

One person, with glasses on, playing with himself in the corner. So, I have nothing to gain from VR since that's a very specific description of my personal life. Cheers Shigs!

Antiwhippy · Jun 19, 2014

Bluemercury said:
Sony doesnt believe either considering the time they gave to their morpheus project at e3.

You mean the appropriate time to give to something that is still heavily in developement and also incredibly hard to demo on a stage show?

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