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alstein · Aug 21, 2015

The way I look at it- the loliblob fetish games don't impact the release of any other games.

This isn't the 90s, we have DD now. The Neptunias of the world don't impact pretentious indie crap, and vice versa. Each can exist, and can be safely ignored by those who don't like it. What I don't like are the folks who are out to censor crap just because it offends them, and that's all too common these days in the name of authoritarianism (which is on the left and right)

Comfort Jones · Aug 21, 2015

michaelius said:
So much for I'm not asking for censorship line of defence this article has.

Yeah pretty much why I have no respect for the article. Along with that "I'm not saying I want them gone" shit, he's clearly got a specific agenda but he's too much of a coward to just straight up say it.

It's sad because I'm one to actually get annoyed at unnecessary sexualized stuff but the way he's framing the argument is just so typical of most game journalists. Post things you know will rile people up, then diminish them until the craziest of the crazy rear their heads on twitter and then make some shitty follow up posts about how the videogame world encourages harassment and all that other nonsense.

twobear · Aug 21, 2015

Conkerkid11 said:
Ignore the shirtless guy.

the short, fat, hairy shirtless guy?

tengiants · Aug 21, 2015

interesting as it is, the "pedophiles" I know that play these games are women too, who also generally like anime. Hard for me to understand the point of the article when it goes against my personal experience with the people that buy this stuff.

godelsmetric said:
the short, fat, hairy shirtless guy?

Why not? There are people who are attracted to short, fat, and hairy people.

To me, these articles read as attempts to cash out on this type of content without having to go through the work of producing it.

twobear · Aug 21, 2015

tengiants said:
Why not? There are people who are attracted to short, fat, and hairy people.

i mean if you're going to use this argument you might as well say, 'well, some people are attracted to fully clothed people, so really all the women should just be wearing bikinis because it makes no difference'.

Chairmanchuck · Aug 21, 2015

tengiants said:
interesting as it is, the "pedophiles" I know that play these games are women too, who also generally like anime. Hard for me to understand the point of the article when it goes against my personal experience with the people that buy this stuff.

I would say that a big fan of those games are female. I dont have any evidence and can only have anecdotal "evidence", but from my friends most people who play those "pedophile" games are female.

Tohsaka · Aug 21, 2015

tengiants said:
interesting as it is, the "pedophiles" I know that play these games are women too, who also generally like anime. Hard for me to understand the point of the article when it goes against my personal experience with the people that buy this stuff.

You're contradicting their narrative, so it doesn't count.

The Technomancer · Aug 21, 2015

YianGaruga said:
I'm all for having a discussion, but this is not the way to do it. He's insulting and labelling the people he should be talking to. If the article is only intended for people who already share his opinion he's basically screaming into an echo chamber.

I mean, I know the p-word invariably derails these kinds of discussions, but given some of the material involved is it inaccurate? Lets not beat around the bush here: a lot of these female characters are some combination of illustrated as and/or canonically very young. There's no real denying that (and I really hope this doesn't become "nono its hebephilia")

Crossing Eden · Aug 21, 2015

tengiants said:
interesting as it is, the "pedophiles" I know that play these games are women too, who also generally like anime. Hard for me to understand the point of the article when it goes against my personal experience with the people that buy this stuff.

Anecdotes aside, i'm sure that if you were to divide the sales between male and female for these types of games, that it would skew overwhelmingly to male.

kevm3 · Aug 21, 2015

Wrong thread

ShinMaruku · Aug 21, 2015

Chaos2Frozen said:
Good thing the west is getting the 'adjusted' version of DOAX... If they're even getting it at all.

You got trolled by Hayashi.

YianGaruga · Aug 21, 2015

The Technomancer said:
I mean, I know the p-word invariably derails these kinds of discussions, but given some of the material involved is it inaccurate? Lets not beat around the bush here: a lot of these female characters are some combination of illustrated as and/or canonically very young. There's no real denying that (and I really hope this doesn't become "nono its hebephilia")

In Omega Labyrinth? I don't see how you can call them "very young". Can I believe that all of them are 16? Sure. Can I believe that all of them are 20? Yeah. I don't see how you can attribute a definitive age to any of the designs. That's how anime girls look. The fact that ages usually get adjusted from 16 to 18 in western localization shows how silly this is.

And this isn't porn. It doesn't go any further than suggestive poses and situations. I think calling people pedophiles over liking this is going way too far.

I'm sorry for doing yet another comparison to violent games but I'm sure not everyone who like decapitations and gore in games actually likes to see that in real life.

viveks86 · Aug 21, 2015

tengiants said:
interesting as it is, the "pedophiles" I know that play these games are women too, who also generally like anime. Hard for me to understand the point of the article when it goes against my personal experience with the people that buy this stuff.

Yup. None of my real life friends play videogames. So it's hard for me to understand there are people in real life other than me who do. Personal experience, you see?

Why not? There are people who are attracted to short, fat, and hairy people.

Statistically insignificant, no?

To me, these articles read as attempts to cash out on this type of content without having to go through the work of producing it.

Welcome to the world of enthusiast press. What you say applies to all analyses, reviews and commentary ever published on food, arts and entertainment.

Nightbird · Aug 21, 2015

People are so quick to throw out the word pedophile, it's sickening. You don't like it? Good on you, no need to heavily insult people who can overlook softcore without a problem.

Chaos2Frozen · Aug 21, 2015

ShinMaruku said:
You got trolled by Hayashi.

Nah =D Don't worry about it.

Rainbowgun said:
People are so quick to throw out the word pedophile, it's sickening. You don't like it? Good on you, no need to heavily insult people who can overlook softcore without a problem.

Think about the fantasy children.

The Technomancer · Aug 21, 2015

Rainbowgun said:
People are so quick to throw out the word pedophile, it's sickening. You don't like it? Good on you, no need to heavily insult people who can overlook softcore without a problem.

I mean would you feel the same way about young softcore handled the same way in other media? Movies? TV shows? An animated film prominently featured what looks like a fourteen years old in a bikini who keeps falling so her ass is in the camera and you don't blink?

YianGaruga · Aug 21, 2015

The Technomancer said:
An animated film prominently featured what looks like a fourteen years old in a bikini who keeps falling so her ass is in the camera and you don't blink?

So every ecchi anime ever?

And once again, how do you feel about seeing people's heads blown off in movies vs seeing that in real life?

Parfait · Aug 21, 2015

The Technomancer said:
I mean would you feel the same way about young softcore handled the same way in other media? Movies? TV shows?

Uhhh, things with real people? Lol, god, no. That's actually disgusting.

I never get that argument to treat fictional characters on the same level as an actor or something. What's the point of doing that, especially with something as unrealistic as most budget softcore jrpgs? Your waifus aren't real. Would you feel the same about watching a movie about a guy murdering a bunch of people in his way? We do that all the time in games, and the subject does come up, but no one goes around calling others murderers about it.

besada · Aug 21, 2015

Rainbowgun said:
People are so quick to throw out the word pedophile, it's sickening. You don't like it? Good on you, no need to heavily insult people who can overlook softcore without a problem.

What would you call someone who enjoys playing games where you rub the vaginas of prepubescent girls? If you enjoy soft or hardcore content where the subjects are children, you're a pedophile. It's not that complicated.

Chaos2Frozen · Aug 21, 2015

besada said:
What would you call someone who enjoys playing games where you rub the vaginas of prepubescent girls? If you enjoy soft or hardcore content where the subjects are children, you're a pedophile. It's not that complicated.

So just to clarify, this is the instant labeling given towards people who likes perverted games- But people who like violent, gory games are given the benefit of the doubt?

Aren't they both imaginary fiction?

viveks86 · Aug 21, 2015

Parfait said:
I never get that argument to treat fictional characters on the same level as an actor or something.

Ok... but:

Would you feel the same about watching a movie about a guy murdering a bunch of people in his way?

So fictional characters and actors ARE on the same level? You are contradicting yourself with those two statements.

besada · Aug 21, 2015

Chaos2Frozen said:
So just to clarify, this is the instant labeling given towards people who likes perverted games- But people who like violent, gory games are given the benefit of the doubt?

I'm not a big fan of murdering children in games, either, which is okay since virtually no developer allows you to do this for obvious reasons. Enjoying sexual games is fine, so long as the subjects of those games are presented as consensual adults, not children.

If you enjoy seeing children sexualized, you are a pedophile. I literally cannot get clearer than that.

Chaos2Frozen · Aug 21, 2015

besada said:
I'm not a big fan of murdering children in games, either, which is okay since virtually no developer allows you to do this for obvious reasons. Enjoying sexual games is fine, so long as the subjects of those games are presented as consensual adults, not children.

If you enjoy seeing children sexualized, you are a pedophile. I literally cannot get clearer than that.

Okay so basically the issue then is about fictional children. As long as it's not 2D characters with child like physical appearances of being under 12 years of age?

Parfait said:
No, that's the thing

Video Game characters aren't real, but we keep trying to apply real people standards to them.

We don't do that to movie characters. I never really hear things like 'tom cruise killed a bunch of dudes in this movie, are the people who like it murderers in the making?' People seem to get that actors... act, and that movies and movie characters aren't real. But we don't do the same to games, because...?

Video games are more real than movies confirmed =3

Parfait · Aug 21, 2015

viveks86 said:
Ok... but:

So fictional characters and actors ARE on the same level? You are contradicting yourself with those two statements.

No, that's the thing

Video Game characters aren't real, but we keep trying to apply real people standards to them.

We don't do that to movie characters. I never really hear things like 'tom cruise killed a bunch of dudes in this movie, are the people who like it murderers in the making?' People seem to get that actors... act, and that movies and movie characters aren't real. But we don't do the same to games, because...?

The Technomancer · Aug 21, 2015

Parfait said:
No, that's the thing

Video Game characters aren't real, but we keep trying to apply real people standards to them.

We don't do that to movie characters. I never really hear things like 'tom cruise killed a bunch of dudes in this movie, are the people who like it murderers in the making?' People seem to get that actors... act, and that movies and movie characters aren't real. But we don't do the same to games, because...?

That is much more about violence vs sexualization (and children) than about real vs fiction honestly. "Tom Cruise was hitting on that young girl" would absolutely be a topic of conversation (and in fact there was something just like that around Tomorrowland, and that didn't even include anything sexually suggestive)

besada · Aug 21, 2015

Chaos2Frozen said:
Okay so basically the issue then is about fictional children.

The issue isn't with the children, the issue is with the desires of the consumer of child oriented sexual content. The children are fictional, the people engaging in the sexual desire for children aren't. And no one is particularly interested in either hearing about their fantasy fodder, or seeing it creep into games.

And to be absolutely honest, the rest of us aren't interested in being associated with pedophiles. We don't want them on GAF, and most of us have zero interest in being associated with them in any fashion.

Nightbird · Aug 21, 2015

besada said:
What would you call someone who enjoys playing games where you rub the vaginas of prepubescent girls? If you enjoy soft or hardcore content where the subjects are children, you're a pedophile. It's not that complicated.

Woah man, those were not the kind of Games I had in mind (you are talking about that one banned Vita Game right?)

I was rather talking about Games where there is occasionally a Scene that is heavily Fanservice-y. Where you get to see Characters in skimpy clothing, or suggestive poses. I think those are silly, and shrug them off. I don't enjoy it, but I also don't get offended by it. I simply ignore it. But according to the narrative of some people, the simple fact that I play it makes me a Pedophile, and this is what annoys me. I feel heavily insulted by that.

tengiants · Aug 21, 2015

viveks86 said:
Welcome to the world of enthusiast press. What you say applies to all analyses, reviews and commentary ever published on food, arts and entertainment.

I would be a lot more trusting of this "enthusiast press" if the article just used words and titles of examples rather than posting possibly offensive images. This article could use an adult content warning if you ask me.

komplanen · Aug 21, 2015

This topic is always so weird because by default I only feel barely in agreement with the premise of these articles but then the lolita cartoon fans show up and I feel reinvigorated with passion that this is a serious issue and something should change.

It's like someone wrote an article about GG and you didn't exactly see the issue until you read the hated in the article comments.

Chaos2Frozen · Aug 21, 2015

besada said:
The issue isn't with the children, the issue is with the desires of the consumer of child oriented sexual content. The children are fictional, the people engaging in the sexual desire for children aren't. And no one is particularly interested in either hearing about their fantasy fodder, or seeing it creep into games.

And to be absolutely honest, the rest of us aren't interested in being associated with pedophiles. We don't want them on GAF, and most of us have zero interest in being associated with them in any fashion.

So just to be sure again- If you're tossing out pedophiles labels to people base on their particular desires towards fiction, is it fair to say you will be assigning labels to people base on some other desires and interests towards their gaming preference?

HGH · Aug 21, 2015

Hmmmm.
Yeah nope.

Oh man, it's like I'm 2 years back in the past!
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=754868

The existence of Human Centipede and Serbian Film doesn't somehow debase the entire movie industry. And how many people have even seen those? Same thing here.
There's a lack of understanding that all the games he mentioned are niche as heck and really don't impact the market that much at all. Like come on, all three games mentioned probably get 50K sales on average. If you want to change things, you start at the top, but the top is completely unwilling to risk change because why waste money? Nintendo sure as hell won't make that kinda product, Square Enix won't, Capcom won't, fuck Konami, BandaiNamco won't...

So really, it's just smaller companies doing this, and they sure as hell don't have power to challenge the status quo and go full porn. And really, maybe they don't want to? People have pointed out the humor in Oneechanbara and such, where sincerely pushing the envelope is part of the joke. And honestly, I sure as hell don't think that the Dwarf/Barbarian or the Amazon running around naked in Dragon's Crown would somehow make the game "more mature".

Honestly, this is a problem a million times worse in Western games, which were barely addressed at the end. The clunky Bioware romance sex, the awful stripper mechanics in GTA, the Witcher 1 naked pornographics playing cards... Those feel far, faaar more juvenile than any breast expanding anime game feels.

But regardless. I actually do agree with one point. For several days now I've been toying with making a thread about how pointless the AO rating is, since it mostly just exists to completely shut down a game before release. Like, it's not really about rating the content so much as killing a game's market potential.

Cyan said:
Don't worry they are actually 1000 year old dragons.

Completely missing the meaning of that sentence to indulge in old memes. They're talking about the audience here.

GamerJM · Aug 21, 2015

The Technomancer said:
I mean, I know the p-word invariably derails these kinds of discussions, but given some of the material involved is it inaccurate? Lets not beat around the bush here: a lot of these female characters are some combination of illustrated as and/or canonically very young. There's no real denying that (and I really hope this doesn't become "nono its hebephilia")

What if the people who enjoy that type of content are children or underaged people themselves? Because, anecdotal evidence, but when I was underaged, I enjoyed more pervy stuff in games involving girls that looked young because I was around the same age, but then when I got older I felt a lot worse about it and suddenly realized how creepy that content was.

cosmicblizzard · Aug 21, 2015

besada said:
What would you call someone who enjoys playing games where you rub the vaginas of prepubescent girls? If you enjoy soft or hardcore content where the subjects are children, you're a pedophile. It's not that complicated.

I don't think it's necessarily that simple. There's a pretty big disconnect for people regarding their desires in fiction vs reality, doubly-so when the subject is a drawing or unrealistic character model. IIRC, some studies indicate there's little correlation for a variety of factors, one being the character being identified with is usually the younger one.

That being said, the studies I've read do not have a component of interactivity like that, so I don't know.

viveks86 · Aug 21, 2015

Parfait said:
We don't do that to movie characters. I never really hear things like 'tom cruise killed a bunch of dudes in this movie, are the people who like it murderers in the making?' People seem to get that actors... act, and that movies and movie characters aren't real. But we don't do the same to games, because...?

Simple. The difference is player agency. By playing a videogame, you are actively participating in the act. It's the difference between witnessing a crime, thereby invoking feelings of sympathy/empathy/horror, and committing the same crime. Movies where innocent people are shown to die are rarely designed to invoke pleasure. Violent games are almost always designed to trigger pleasure, which is why its long term effects on the human psyche, especially at younger ages, is a hotter topic than that of movies. It's the reason people are terrified of the potential effects of virtual reality (especially for the horror genre).

In my opinion, pedophilia is troublesome enough in movies and worse in games, because of the added sense of agency. How it affects individuals is totally subjective, but I cannot see it being 'healthy escapism' for the majority by any stretch of the imagination.

besada · Aug 21, 2015

Chaos2Frozen said:
So just to be sure again- If you're tossing out pedophiles labels to people base on their particular desires towards fiction, is it fair to say you will be assigning labels to people base on some other desires and interests towards their gaming preference?

The only thing that's safe to assume from our conversation is that GAF is not a place that welcomes people who are interested in the sexualization of children. If that's a problem for you, there are certainly other forums who don't take issue with it.

YianGaruga · Aug 21, 2015

HGH said:
Hmmmm.
Yeah nope.

Oh man, it's like I'm 2 years back in the past!
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=754868

The existence of Human Centipede and Serbian Film doesn't somehow debase the entire movie industry. And how many people have even seen those? Same thing here.
There's a lack of understanding that all the games he mentioned are niche as heck and really don't impact the market that much at all. Like come on, all three games mentioned probably get 50K sales on average. If you want to change things, you start at the top, but the top is completely unwilling to risk change because why waste money? Nintendo sure as hell won't make that kinda product, Square Enix won't, Capcom won't, fuck Konami, BandaiNamco won't...

So really, it's just smaller companies doing this, and they sure as hell don't have power to challenge the status quo and go full porn. And really, maybe they don't want to? People have pointed out the humor in Oneechanbara and such, where sincerely pushing the envelope is part of the joke. And honestly, I sure as hell don't think that the Dwarf/Barbarian or the Amazon running around naked in Dragon's Crown would somehow make the game "more mature".

Honestly, this is a problem a million times worse in Western games, which were barely addressed at the end. The clunky Bioware romance sex, the awful stripper mechanics in GTA, the Witcher 1 naked pornographics playing cards... Those feel far, faaar more juvenile than any breast expanding anime game feels.

But regardless. I actually do agree with one point. For several days now I've been toying with making a thread about how pointless the AO rating is, since it mostly just exists to completely shut down a game before release. Like, it's not really about rating the content so much as killing a game's market potential.

Completely missing the meaning of that sentence to indulge in old memes. They're talking about the audience here.

We have stopped discussing the article long ago and are actually just calling each other pedophiles in here now.

besada said:
The only thing that's safe to assume from our conversation is that GAF is not a place that welcomes people who are interested in the sexualization of children. If that's a problem for you, there are certainly other forums who don't take issue with it.

Do you consider the characters in Omega Labyrinth to be children and should discussion of the game be banned? Or are we talking about something else now?

besada · Aug 21, 2015

YianGaruga said:
Do you consider the characters in Omega Labyrinth to be children and should discussion of the game be banned? Or are we talking about something else now?

I don't know enough about that particular game to say. The moderators will have to investigate and discuss it. We have a blanket policy about not allowing discussion of games involving sex with children, so if it turns out one or more of them are children, I imagine it will fall under the same category.

Chairmanchuck · Aug 21, 2015

besada said:
The issue isn't with the children, the issue is with the desires of the consumer of child oriented sexual content. The children are fictional, the people engaging in the sexual desire for children aren't. And no one is particularly interested in either hearing about their fantasy fodder, or seeing it creep into games.

And to be absolutely honest, the rest of us aren't interested in being associated with pedophiles. We don't want them on GAF, and most of us have zero interest in being associated with them in any fashion.

I think the problem in these threads is often, that the people not familiar with japanese game assume "all" japanese games that tend to use anime-art are like that.

"Hey. I liked playing playing Neptunia and didnt really see a problem with the portrayal of trope characters there."
"You must be a pedophile."
For every Hatred or Postal, you still have a Portal
For every Criminal Girls or Omega Labyrinth you have a Yakuza.

I actually wonder who really buys such games primarily for the sexual content though. I think a lot of people actually buy them because there are not that many JRPGs/japanese games in general left compared to the PSX/Ps2 times and they still like the style (and I dont mean the sexual innuende scenes) of such games.

Chaos2Frozen · Aug 21, 2015

besada said:
The only thing that's safe to assume from our conversation is that GAF is not a place that welcomes people who are interested in the sexualizing of children. If that's a problem for you, there are certainly other forums who don't take issue with it.

I'm only respectfully inquiring your policies towards the labeling of people base on their desires towards fiction, not just towards the sexualizing of fictional children.

Just to not break any of GAF's rules.

besada · Aug 21, 2015

Chaos2Frozen said:
I'm only respectfully inquiring your policies towards the labeling of people base on their desires towards fiction, not just towards sexualizing of fictional children.

I'm well aware that you're attempting to change the discussion. I'd suggest you accept what I've told you and move on.

Corpekata · Aug 21, 2015

Man if those schoolgirls are believable to be 20 you have a low opinion of their intelligence. Getting held back a few grades.

HGH · Aug 21, 2015

YianGaruga said:
We have stopped discussing the article long ago and are actually just calling each other pedophiles in here now.

Aww for the love of...
Jeez. That's what you get for arriving too late in a thread.
I mean, I'd love for someone to challenge my opinion or something. Pretty please?

YianGaruga · Aug 21, 2015

besada said:
I don't know enough about that particular game to say. The moderators will have to investigate and discuss it. We have a blanket policy about not allowing discussion of games involving sex with children, so if it turns out one or more of them are children, I imagine it will fall under the same category.

That means under 18 correct? Because as far as I know Senran Kagura discussion is allowed and the characters are originally under 18 in that game. I don't know how changing ages in a localization influences these decisions.

Parfait · Aug 21, 2015

viveks86 said:
Simple. The difference is player agency. By playing a videogame, you are actively participating in the act. It's the difference between witnessing a crime, thereby invoking feelings of sympathy/empathy/horror and committing the same crime. Movies where innocent people are shown to die are rarely designed to invoke pleasure. Violent games are almost always designed to trigger pleasure, which is why its long term effects on the human psyche, especially at younger ages, is a hotter topic than that of movies. It's the reason people are terrified of the potential effects of virtual reality (especially for the horror genre).

In my opinion, pedophilia is troublesome enough in movies and worse in games, because of the added sense of agency. How it affects individuals is totally subjective, but I cannot see it being 'healthy escapism' for the majority by any stretch of the imagination.

That's fucked up.

You make a fair point. I don't enjoy this trend of instant judgement and calling people pedophiles because they like or enjoy something. What they like isn't my concern, and it will never be my place to tell someone that they're wrong to like something. I'm certainly not going to get worried over niche jrpgs.

alstein · Aug 21, 2015

Sites have the right to set whatever standards they want. Users have the right to mock said sites for being intolerant or biased.

Ultimately, if my disgust at moderation practices of a forum outweighs time I get interacting/reading it, I leave.

Personally, I don't have an issue with the policies of the site on this issue, but I do think the rhetoric needs to be toned down. Calling someone a pedophile is one of the worst things you can call someone.

besada · Aug 21, 2015

YianGaruga said:
That means under 18 correct? Because as far as I know Senran Kagura discussion is allowed and the characters are originally under 18 in that game.

That was the general consensus on Senran Kagura, yes. Again, we look at games on an individual basis, too. If they're saying a character is 4,000 years old, but she's portrayed as twelve, that's not going to fly. We'll let you know if there's an issue.

alstein said:
Sites have the right to set whatever standards they want. Users have the right to mock said sites for being intolerant or biased.

Ultimately, if my disgust at moderation practices of a forum outweighs time I get interacting/reading it, I leave.

Absolutely true. Posting at GAF is voluntary, and entirely at the discretion of management. If someone doesn't like the rules, there are many alternatives. If people who love sexy children want to leave, we'll hold the door for you.

patapuf · Aug 21, 2015

I've been wondering about relationship focused games for a while.

There's a few games that had decent "mature" romances but these were often sideshows and even in RPG's, minimal in terms of interaction.

Games that do focus on romance (and are sometimes decent at it) are for the most part VN's/Adventures with minimal mechanics.

Is there even interest for a game that deals wich maturely deals with romance/sexuality themes as a main theme with in depth mechanics (so, something that's not just "choose your own adventure")? And more importantly, how do you even do this mechanically without divorcing the mechanics completely from the story (like say, catherine)

besada · Aug 21, 2015

patapuf said:
Is there even interest for a game that deals wich maturely deals with romance/sexuality themes as a main theme with in depth mechanics (so, something that's not just "choose your own adventure")? And more importantly, how do you even do this mechanically without divorcing the mechanics completely from the story (like say, catherine)

The Novelist, an indie game, deals very maturely with the issues of love, and what we trade to keep it. I recommend it whole-heartedly. One of the most interesting an emotionally difficult games I've ever played.

Chairmanchuck · Aug 21, 2015

patapuf said:
I've been wondering about relationship focused games for a while.

There's a few games that had decent "mature" romances but these were often sideshows and even in RPG's, minimal in terms of interaction.

Games that do focus on romance (and are sometimes decent at it) are for the most part VN's/Adventures with minimal mechanics.
)

There are some strategy-(hentai)-VNs in Japan that offer actually more mature romances, but afaik no ones of these have been translated. Its actually kinda strange, that Japan on one hand has those hypersexualized children in VNs, but also have VNs which deal with the topic of romance and sexuality in a far more mature way than any western game can do.

I guess it could work though. Imagine a game like Hotel Dusk. I think such a game could easily work, though I guess you mean even more "gameplay".

Edit: The Novelist is a great example! Play that!

Massive Duck. C.M. · Aug 21, 2015

Honestly not into gratuitous T+A in games, and the ones that focus on it tend to be terrible anyway.

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