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[alstein]

That was the general consensus on Senran Kagura, yes. Again, we look at games on an individual basis, too. If they're saying a character is 4,000 years old, but she's portrayed as twelve, that's not going to fly. We'll let you know if there's an issue.



Absolutely true. Posting at GAF is voluntary, and entirely at the discretion of management. If someone doesn't like the rules, there are many alternatives. If people who love sexy children want to leave, we'll hold the door for you.

I don't have an issue with the policies. I do think personally, calling someone a pedophile is one of the worst things you can call someone, and such rhetoric should be used very, very sparingly. That's what I have an issue with right now.

The term pedophile should be reserved for the Jareds of the world.

 

[patapuf]

The Novelist, an indie game, deals very maturely with the issues of love, and what we trade to keep it. I recommend it whole-heartedly. One of the most interesting an emotionally difficult games I've ever played.

Will do, thanks.

 

[Steroyd]

Wow, that article wasn't good, mentions that things like Onechabara's fruit bikini thing looks more erotic than full nudity, then lays the blame that censorship is holding stuff like this back from being full on porn... I think it's mission accomplished as far as the devs are concerned. In fact I find it amusing that he's calling for censorship to be more lax yet points out japan is more lax and his numerous examples originate from Japan.

You only have to look as far as the title to know Omega Labrynth was never going to be anything beyond what it is.

Teasing without explicitly showing can be more effective. Same goes with horror games.

 

[viveks86]

That's fucked up.

You make a fair point. I don't enjoy this trend of instant judgement and calling people pedophiles because they like or enjoy something. What they like isn't my concern, and it will never be my place to tell someone that they're wrong to like something. I'm certainly not going to get worried over niche jrpgs.

Yeah I don't entirely approve of people being called pedophiles for fictitious content either, but if you think about it, it does raise troubling questions. If anything is allowed in fictitious content, then would fictitious snuff and rape be exempt from judgment too? Everyone draws their arbitrary lines somewhere for fiction as well. Unless they completely lack a moral compass that is. A lot of people refuse to confront these topics head on out of fear of guilt, but whether it's in words, 2D, 3D or real life, the emotional response generated in us is essentially the same albeit varying degrees.

 

[petran79]

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/lsl/allowe-interview.htm

An interesting explanation of a similar question regarding Western games

For games that are all about sex, usually the Larry weren't all that explicit. If you were going to sell an adult product, why not go all out?

Well, the dichotomy was between the marketing department and me and management. Ken Williams ran the company and we used to tease him that his organization chart was two levels deep and about 180 people wide, because, it was like, everybody just kinda reports to Ken! So, I would talk with Ken, and he'd say, "Go ahead, make it really dirty, do whatever you want, it's fun!" And then when it would get closer to shipping, he'd say, "I don't know if we could do that!" Dammit, Ken! So, I eventually I'd learned that I just wouldn't make it so dirty that it would scare him. But then it would go to John Williams, Ken's little brother, who ran the marketing department. He was just a genius back then at selling. So John would put it in a hot pink, purple box and make it out like there was this really nasty thing inside, and it really wasn't. We just didn't really do that. It was much more of marketing and sales wanted to make it more risque.

But then we ran into trouble because back at the time Radio Shack was a third of all computer software sales. So we had to do business with them, except the head of Radio Shack was this born-again Christian who put The Fear into his staff. So when they would check out new products they were afraid to even have us ship them a Larry game, that someone might catch them with it, let alone play it or approve of it. So, when we went to sell the first Larry game, we cut off a third of our market. There were no sales from Radio Shack, no marketing and no sales money. It was all word of mouth. It was viral before that term was even known. All the sales started out really bad and grew month after month after month. I have a chart on my wall from July 18th, 1988, which was 13 months after the game shipped, and it's #3 with a bullet, that it's still rising on the chart after 53 weeks. It's just amazing to think how the marketplace has changed.

 

[The Technomancer]

I don't have an issue with the policies. I do think personally, calling someone a pedophile is one of the worst things you can call someone, and such rhetoric should be used very, very sparingly. That's what I have an issue with right now.

The term pedophile should be reserved for the Jareds of the world.

I mean, yea, the discussion rarely actually comes down to "pro" vs "anti" pedophilia sides and when it does the mods shut it down quick. What does happen is you get arguments between the "anti" vs "apathy" sides, the latter of which I frankly don't understand. Yes they're just drawings, yes they're not real, but doesn't the fact that the developers thought to depict sexed up fifteen year olds and that such a thing would be desirable tell you something both about them and who they think their audience is? You might not "enjoy" it, but they're designing for people who do

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Yeah I don't entirely approve of people being called pedophiles for fictitious content either, but if you think about it, it does raise troubling questions. If anything is allowed in fictitious content, then would fictitious snuff and rape be exempt from judgment too? Everyone draws their arbitrary lines somewhere for fiction too. Unless they completely lack a moral compass that is. A lot of people refuse to confront these topics head on out of fear of guilt, but whether it's in words, 2D, 3D or real life, the emotional response generated in us is essentially the same albeit varying degrees.

As far as whether it should be allowed to exist or not, sure. Whether it has value in terms of artistic expression is for the individual to decide, not the law.

Also, "fictitious snuff" is an oxymoron. It ceases to be victim-less artistic expression when actual real-life victims are involved.

 

[viveks86]

As far as whether it should be allowed to exist or not, sure. Whether it has value in terms of artistic expression is for the individual to decide, not the law.

Of course.

Also, "fictitious snuff" is an oxymoron.

I'm aware. But I don't know of a word to describe that category of fiction.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I'm aware. But I don't know of a word to describe that category of fiction.

Torture porn maybe? I mean, that's arguably made its way into the mainstream with stuff like Saw.

 

[alstein]

I mean, yea, the discussion rarely actually comes down to "pro" vs "anti" pedophilia sides and when it does the mods shut it down quick. What does happen is you get arguments between the "anti" vs "apathy" sides, the latter of which I frankly don't understand. Yes they're just drawings, yes they're not real, but doesn't the fact that the developers thought to depict sexed up fifteen year olds and that such a thing would be desirable tell you something both about them and who they think their audience is? You might not "enjoy" it, but they're designing for people who do

In Japan that sort of thing is more acceptable than it is over here. Different places have different standards. Our standards of violence are way more than Europeans or Japanese. At what point do you consider a society's standards unacceptable? (and such a line obviously does exist- we don't accept the crap certain societies do)

It's like, I don't mind seeing younger girls in fanservicey outfits, as long as it isn't sexualized and the intent is silly instead of serious. To me, stuff like DOA5 is on the silly end of the spectrum, though I personally think Marie Rose/Honoka is questionable at best. SF Sakura is ok. KOF Mai is ok. Arcana Heart, as much as I liked the gameplay, went too far IMO.

Stuff like where it's sexual - don't want that in my games or to see it personally.

 

[viveks86]

Torture porn maybe? I mean, that's arguably made its way into the mainstream with stuff like Saw.

I guess? It's become too broad a term though. Heck, people call tomb raider torture porn. Also, torture porn is designed in a way that you don't empathize with the victims. It's one of the reasons slasher flicks are always campy. If they weren't campy, they will lose their majority audience. Saw was pretty fucked up though. I think it succeeded initially because the first one had pretty good editing and a gripping plot with twists. The sequels were straight up sadistic torture with no redeeming qualities, which caused its eventual decline. Same happened to the final destination movies.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

I received an email newsletter about this game from D3 the other day, didn't know anything about it and then I opened the email and I felt so reviled and disgusted. If I was 13 years of age maybe, but man, it made me feel like a pedophile looking at it. Yeah, no thanks D3, I can get by with my 31 year old girlfriend, not imaginary 13 year old girls wearing very little...it's more than a little bit creepy.

 

[Frumix]

What's all this abo----

The “Faint in Agony X Awakening” system teaches characters new skills and increases their status. By using a “Torture Aroma” item acquired in a dungeon, you can make a girl go in an excited state, and begin to hallucinate a little.

While in this state, you’ll get to partake in a touch screen mini-game to have them increase their Omega Power and increase their status. Depending on the situations and the girls, they’ll have their “sweet spots” that further increases their Omega Power.

By further increasing their excited state, you’ll the “Faint in Agony” mode, which basically makes their entire body a sweet spot. And finally, if you use a special item while in this state, they’ll enter a “Shyness Break” mode, which gives them a different appearance during this moment.

I can totally see how an average person would explode in a grossout editorial over this.

 

[Clear]

Torture porn maybe? I mean, that's arguably made its way into the mainstream with stuff like Saw.

"Torture porn" always was mainstream; Although for nearly a century it was more usually described as Grand Guignol, after the famous Parisian theatre that specialized in dark playlets containing murder and torture.

Just a horrible pejorative term coined by some ninny with no respect for the genre or its history.

 

[viveks86]

Although for nearly a century it was more usually described as Grand Guignol, after the famous Parisian theatre that specialized in dark playlets containing murder and torture.

Ha. Did not know that!

 

[redcrayon]

I don't really find it all that plausible that any of you actually have any confusion about the point being made in this original post, it's pretty straightforward:

• There's an increasing number of games falling somewhere in the range between crass but harmless juvenilia and vile exploitation garbage.
• As some markets contract, they start putting more and more mandatory pandering into every title regardless of whether it has anything to do with the underlying game.
• At the same time, almost nothing else outside of ultra-obscure independent games does anything more advanced or sophisticated with sexuality.
• What that leaves us with: a hobby where there's increasingly lacking options to play many types of games without juvenile sexual nonsense attached, and almost none with any kind of adult conception (hyuk) of sexuality.
• So it would be better if games that were about sex had more room to go as far as they wanted, both in crass and mature ways, while games that aren't about sex could have less call to shoehorn juvenile stuff in.

It's not a super outlandish position. Most of it shouldn't even be controversial. I don't think there are a lot of people who could make a plausible-sounding case for why it's a good thing that every dungeon crawler these days has to be themed around embarrassing pervert stuff, or why it's better if niche games that historically have been smut-free have to contort themselves to squeeze it in.



Basically, there's a difference -- and we see this in things like game ratings and advertising, and it's reflected in NeoGAF moderation policy -- between two types of games that get conflated in these discussions. One one side we have something like Oneechanbara, which is immature but knowingly so, and oriented around a crass concept of what is still adult sexuality. And then on the other side we have games where players touch the body parts of children and justify it with thin, embarrassing storyline excuses.

I agree with all of this.

What I find weird is why dungeon crawlers in particular seem to be an attractive genre to the people making this stuff- surely if you were mainly selling smut, why bolt it onto a 50 hour+ game? Wouldn't the audience just be more interested in not having to slog through the games lengthy run time of incremental advances in party composition to get to it?

I don't think it's every dungeon crawler, this year alone I've played through Operation Abyss and EO IV, both of which have no scenes where you see the characters at all, and a heavy focus on the characters being just walking piles of stats and loot with a portrait that you create and name, just like their old-school predecessors.

But the genre does seem to attract weirdness- there was a scene in Demon Gaze where, despite it being a medieval level of technology, the innkeeper is lying on her bed wearing skimpy lingerie straight out of a modern underwear catalogue- maybe medieval underwear wasn't sexy enough! Plus an early still of a catgirl maid stealing said innkeepers' panties. Both were just bizarre fanservice, they added nothing to the game whatsoever and just felt out of place compared to the other 99.99% of the run time. Considering that the developers also make loads of other dungeon crawlers with none of that stuff in, I just wonder what they were thinking, maybe the whole game was designed as an entry-level dungeon crawl, and being a new IP they thought they needed to add that stuff rather than start adding it to their older series.

 

[patapuf]

I agree with all of this.

What I find weird is why dungeon crawlers in particular seem to be an attractive genre to the people making this stuff- surely if you were mainly selling smut, why bolt it onto a 50 hour+ game? Wouldn't the audience just be more interested in not having to slog through the games lengthy run time of incremental advances in party composition to get to it?

I don't think it's every dungeon crawler, this year alone I've played through Operation Abyss and EO IV, both of which have no scenes where you see the characters at all, and a heavy focus on the characters being just walking piles of stats and loot with a portrait that you create and name, just like their old-school predecessors.

But the genre does seem to attract weirdness- there was a scene in Demon Gaze where, despite it being a medieval level of technology, the innkeeper is lying on her bed wearing skimpy lingerie straight out of a modern underwear catalogue- maybe medieval underwear wasn't sexy enough! Plus an early still of a catgirl maid stealing said innkeepers' panties. Both were just bizarre fanservice, they added nothing to the game whatsoever and just felt out of place compared to the other 99.99% of the run time.

dungeon crawlers are "easy" to make on a low budget. There are also a lot of them so you have to differentiate yourself. Some do it with mechanics others seem to have success with smut and wacky scenarios to set up said smut.

 

[Riposte]

"I don't necessarily want games like Omega Labyrinth to go away... I just think it's time for them to grow up, you know?"

I honestly cringe a bit at statements like this. When you say it's time for them to grow up you're ABSOLUTELY saying you want them to "go away". Just fuckin admit it. So tired of these critics making sweeping claims about things they find "problematic" and then refusing to admit they don't want certain things to go away completely.

I agree wholeheartedly and this is the only thing that truly bothers me about this conversation (the depiction of sexuality/sexual objectification in general) and the many times I've taken part in it, often with the same, as or more dedicated posters who can be more or less guilty of this; the attempt to create a false sense of amicability which doesn't hold up if you actually examine the logic of what someone is saying.

I mean, it's possible they haven't considered that far (and to be clear I'm not talking about people who go "that's gross/stupid/ugly" and leave like it was any other game), but often enough, when what amounts to odd euphemisms like Parish's are thrown out, it comes off a kind of diplomatic half-truth. People should just say they desire for something to not exist, that it goes beyond a matter of taste, "different strokes for different folks", but something deeper, going as far as preventing harm and negative effects (i.e., it's a moral imperative). It's not alien to think things that hurt the world should be curbed. If that something that shouldn't exist is said to be "not the game, but the problematic parts", that's just a misdirection, because the problematic parts are the whole point of contention. (Not to mention misdirection like... the pointless arguments about what the real definition of censorship is, saying you have no power to do what you want as if that changes what you want, saying it's a matter of an uneven market one moment and then painting the actual subject matter of an individual game as objection later, etc.)

I understand why people do it, because it's not an issue where an amicable solution is truly possible, but it's really deceptive in appearance. Ultimately, I wonder how necessary it is, at least to the dedicated arguer on a forum, because it will all come down to how effective brute force is in the end. Aggressive petitions, ostracizing of the "weirdos" or "assholes" (in the form of individuals or businesses), and such that are perfectly honest about how they want something removed. As bad as that is for my ideals, at least it doesn't get under my skin like what I'm talking about.

 

[redcrayon]

dungeon crawlers are "easy" to make on a low budget. There are also a lot of them so you have to differentiate yourself. Some do it with mechanics others seem to have success with smut and wacky scenarios to set up said smut.

Ah, I see, thanks. So few make it over here (EU) that I probably have a warped view of what is actually available.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

Muh Western sensibilities.

This. Cultural differences and all that. No one is forcing you to play these games, just like no one is forcing you to watch R-rated late night anime.

If you don't like it, ignore it. That's what I do with most FPS' and Hollywood movies. I find even the most perverted of Japanese games far less offensive than COD.

 

[Masseffectman]

I think these journalists need to mature, with their taboo attitude towards nudity and sex in games. I didn't realise usgamer had such a politically-correct agenda, oh well, i don't have to read anything they say.

 

[Steroyd]

I mean, yea, the discussion rarely actually comes down to "pro" vs "anti" pedophilia sides and when it does the mods shut it down quick. What does happen is you get arguments between the "anti" vs "apathy" sides, the latter of which I frankly don't understand. Yes they're just drawings, yes they're not real, but doesn't the fact that the developers thought to depict sexed up fifteen year olds and that such a thing would be desirable tell you something both about them and who they think their audience is? You might not "enjoy" it, but they're designing for people who do

But where does this depiction stop? Afterall what does it say about Rockstar thinking up the scenario's they make in GTA in regards to glorifying bank heists, drugs and criminal life vs the 10's of millions of people who buy the game and the 10's of millions of people who buy Call of Duty every year etc. There's a cut off point between reality vs fantasy that needs to be acknowledged.

 

[redcrayon]

This. Cultural differences and all that. No one is forcing you to play these games, just like no one is forcing you to watch R-rated late night anime.

If you don't like it, ignore it. That's what I do with most FPS' and Hollywood movies. I find even the most perverted of Japanese games far less offensive than COD.

Games are a huge global industry, it doesn't make discussion of the distasteful aspects of one part of it irrelevant. Deflecting criticism with 'but this other, unrelated thing is worse in my eyes' is a poor defence of crap stuff no matter the argument, not every discussion needs to cover every element of an industry, and excessive violence, jingoism and xenophobia are often covered in threads elsewhere, amongst other topics.

I don't think I even want to know what the 'most perverted' Japanese game is, in the same way that I have no interest in the 'most violent western game' either. Both topics are perfectly valid discussions about the borders of taste though, even though different cultures might see those borders in different ways. I'm also pretty sure that a comparison of 'cultural differences' isn't entirely accurate when these games aren't mainstream in Japan in the same way that CoD and GTA are in the west. The developers get by on selling a tiny amount of copies to a tiny fanbase. If you want to make that discussion, something like Hatred would be a better comparison, but it's also banned on gaf.

 

[AerialAir]

USGamer should grow up. There are games out there that handle sexual themes maturely (ex. The Witcher) and others that don't. Why? Well, because we're all different and have different tastes, so let the people who enjoy fan service have fan service. What's the problem, if you don't like it, you don't buy it. If they're still making these games, it's because there's a market for it (in both cases).

 

[ShooterMcGavin]

USGamer should grow up. There are games out there that handle sexual themes maturely (ex. The Witcher) and others that don't. Why? Well, because we're all different and have different tastes, so let the people who enjoy fan service have fan service. What's the problem, if you don't like it, you don't buy it. If they're still making these games, it's because there's a market for it (in both cases).

It really is as simple as this.

"Muh medium though!"

 

[Meccanical]

It's okay for some games to be immature.

Mature people would understand this.

 

[SilentRob]

What's the problem, if you don't like it, you don't buy it. If they're still making these games, it's because there's a market for it (in both cases).

It really is as simple as this.

"Muh medium though!"

Yes. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Do not talk about it. Do not state your opinion. Criticism and critique are wholly unneccesary. That's how we should handle everything!

This is one of the most tired ways of putting your fingers in your ears and screaming "LALALALA" to keep yourself from actually thinking and having a proper discussion about something.

What's all this abo----

The “Faint in Agony X Awakening” system teaches characters new skills and increases their status. By using a “Torture Aroma” item acquired in a dungeon, you can make a girl go in an excited state, and begin to hallucinate a little.

While in this state, you’ll get to partake in a touch screen mini-game to have them increase their Omega Power and increase their status. Depending on the situations and the girls, they’ll have their “sweet spots” that further increases their Omega Power.

By further increasing their excited state, you’ll the “Faint in Agony” mode, which basically makes their entire body a sweet spot. And finally, if you use a special item while in this state, they’ll enter a “Shyness Break” mode, which gives them a different appearance during this moment.

Also, wow. Perfect gif. For me, that rivals "Criminals Girls", in which you make your slave-girls stronger by whipping and punishing them, in troublesome imagery. I mean...jesus christ.

This is worthy of discussion, because it is the norm. Games that actually handle sexuality and eroticism in a real, serious way instead of using the concept as an excuse to allow you to spank a few 14-year-old Anime-girls with huge breasts are actually the minority here, while the latter seems to get a new game every other month. That's something the industry should absolutely talk about.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

Yes. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Do not talk about it. Do not state your opinion. Criticism and critique are wholly unneccesary. That's how we should handle everything!

This is one of the most tired ways of putting your fingers in your ears and screaming "LALALALA" to keep yourself from actually thinking and having a proper discussion about something.

I know, right? Don't talk about our perverted games like that, how dare you, journalists, actually doing your job, talking about games!

It's hilarious to think how much people will stick up for what is essentially smut, but whatever, they're not going to change their minds about it. If scantily clad children seriously gets people excited, then I guess that's that.

 

[redcrayon]

USGamer should grow up. There are games out there that handle sexual themes maturely (ex. The Witcher) and others that don't. Why? Well, because we're all different and have different tastes, so let the people who enjoy fan service have fan service. What's the problem, if you don't like it, you don't buy it. If they're still making these games, it's because there's a market for it (in both cases).

If it was about the freedom to handle sexual themes about adult relationships maturely or immaturely, I'd agree with you, Bioware's awkward 'gift/gift/kill-that-guy/sex' approach to the relationships of it's adult cast is awful but perfectly fine as a product if that's what people want. However, I don't think 'but there's a market for it!' Is a great defence of sexualised children in any medium.

 

[SilentRob]

I know, right? Don't talk about our perverted games like that, how dare you, journalists!

It's hilarious to think how much people will stick up for what is essentially smut, but whatever, they're not going to change their minds about it. If scantily clad children seriously gets people excited, then I guess that's that.

I don't even have a problem with the concept, outside from these girls looking way too much like children. Apart from that, people can like whatever they want.

What's troublesome is the incredible amount of games like these and how much of the market in japan seems to concentrate on them. They are not just another type of game giving people more options. It's pretty much the only option.

It would be bad if we would only get preachy games that talk about eroticism like a nun would to a bunch of 5th-graders in a catholic school, but now we are in the same situation on the other side of the spectrum, where the medium seems to revolve around games like Criminal Girls and Omega Labyrinth and doesn't seem to be able to handle sex in a different way, again, especially in Japan. That's just as bad.

EDIT: That was phrased poorly - I'm talking only in regards to how eroticism is handled in games, not games as a whole. Obviously, there are a lot of games that don't have any erotic themes at all.

But if you want an erotic game or a game handling sex or talking about sex or anything along those lines, games like Omega Labyrinth and Criminal Girls are the overwhelming majority, not the exception in Japan. That's what i meant and that's what the article criticises, too.

 

[Sandfox]

I don't even have a problem with the concept, outside from these girls looking way too much like children. Apart from that, people can like whatever they want.

What's troublesome is the incredible amount of games like these and how much of the market in japan seems to concentrate on them. They are not just another type of game giving people more options. It's pretty much the only option these days.

It would be bad if we would only get preachy games that talk about eroticism like a nun would to a bunch of 5th-graders in a catholic school, but now we are in the same situation on the other side of the spectrum, where the medium seems to revolve around games like Criminal Girls and Omega Labyrinth and doesn't seem to be able to handle sex in a different way and that's that, again, especially in Japan. That's just as bad.

I'm pretty sure that isn't true.

 

[2+2=5]

The article is suggesting to allow porn games right?

Mmmm i guess i would be ok with it, those wanna-be-porn-games-but-cant games are stupid and ridiculous, at this point i would prefer a clear distinction between porn and non-porn games, it would be better for everyone, those who want "serious" games like me, for those who want "sexy" games and for developers that would be finally free to do whatever they want, after all there are already 18+ and M ratings, so what's the problem?

 

[redcrayon]

I don't even have a problem with that. People can like whatever they want.

What's troublesome is the incredible amount of games like these and how much of the market in japan seems to concentrate on them. They are not just another type of game giving people more options. It's pretty much the only option these days.

It would be bad if we would only get preachy games that talk about eroticism like a nun would to a bunch of 5th-graders in a catholic school, but now we are in the same situation on the other side of the spectrum, where the medium seems to revolve around games like Criminal Girls and Omega Labyrinth and doesn't seem to be able to handle sex in a different way and that's that, again, especially in Japan. That's just as bad.

Come on now, 'how much of the market' in Japan do you think really concentrates on them. They aren't the only option, they are a tiny niche that sells tiny amounts of copies to a very small amount of people, and they get coverage way beyond their sales in western discussion forums/media purely because the overt sexualisation achieves it's goal of standing out.

I don't see how they are 'the only option' when they sell a few thousand copies amid the games selling millions. That's a completely false read on the market.

 

[Sandfox]

The article is suggesting to allow porn games right?

Mmmm i guess i'm ok with it, those wanna-be-porn-games-but-cant games are stupid and ridiculous, at this point i would prefer a clear distinction between porn and non-porn games, it would be better for everyone, those who want "serious" games like me, for those who want "sexy" games and developers that would be finally free to do whatever they want, after all there are already 18+ and M ratings, so what's the problem?

I'm sure a lot of these companies don't want to reach porn levels and 18+ like that would probably kill sales potential.

 

[AerialAir]

I know, right? Don't talk about our perverted games like that, how dare you, journalists, actually doing your job, talking about games!

I'm not even a fan of these games myself, but this "discussion" has been going on for years now, probably since the early 90's. If these games were bad on people's minds, then we should join the critique's side on how grand theft auto makes us all criminals.

It's alright to discuss it, but it isn't cool to "attack" a company for making games for their target market. This happens with all mediums, not just videogames. There are movies that handle sexual themes well, then there's glorified porn. There are photographs of nude people that are true masterpieces, then there's photographs of women/men in provocative postures. There's a market for everything, and it's alright to discuss it, but not to want to block it. You loose all reason if you can only see you side of things.

Edit:

If it was about the freedom to handle sexual themes about adult relationships maturely or immaturely, I'd agree with you, Bioware's awkward 'gift/gift/kill-that-guy/sex' approach to the relationships of it's adult cast is awful but perfectly fine as a product if that's what people want. However, I don't think 'but there's a market for it!' Is a great defence of sexualised children in any medium.

I'll agree with you there. Though this is more of a social discussion, than something inherent to videogames.

 

[SilentRob]

I'm pretty sure that isn't true.

That was phrased poorly - I'm talking only in regards to how eroticism is handled in games, not games as a whole. Obviously, there are a lot of games that don't have any erotic themes at all.

But if you want an erotic game or a game handling sex or talking about sex or anything along those lines, games like Omega Labyrinth and Criminal Girls are the overwhelming majority, not the exception in Japan. That's what i meant.

 

[Sandfox]

That was phrased poorly - I'm talking only in regards to how eroticism is handled in games, not games as a whole. Obviously, there are a lot of games that don't have any erotic themes at all.

But if you want an erotic game or a game handling sex or talking about sex or anything along those lines, games like Omega Labyrinth and Criminal Girls are the overwhelming majority, not the exception in Japan. That's what i meant.

I'm pretty sure that isn't true either.

 

[2+2=5]

I'm sure a lot of these companies don't want to reach porn levels and 18+ like that would probably kill sales potential.

We are talking about niche games like omega labyrinth, criminal girls etc that usually have low sales, imo if porn was allowed most of those games would have been porn games and sales would have been similar or even better, don't underestimate porn.

 

[PancakeAlmighty]

I personally feel we should let people make what games they want, its an art form after all, but I do feel maybe they should be limits, but these limits can be best defined as "Its in the law" basically I'm saying, No more loli bullshit please.

 

[AerialAir]

I personally feel we should let people make what games they want, its an art form after all, but I do feel maybe they should be limits, but these limits can be best defined as "Its in the law" basically I'm saying, No more loli bullshit please.

This guy. Basically what I just trying to say.

 

[HGH]

There are plenty of things not in the law that still rile people up though.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

I'm pretty sure that isn't true either.

So what games out of Japan handle sexuality/nudity/etc in a mature and adult fashion? Seems pretty easy to say "this isn't true", but at least on the side of looking at what gets released in the US, I can't think of a single one that doesn't fall in with Omega Labyrinth and others.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

So what games out of Japan handle sexuality/nudity/etc in a mature and adult fashion? Seems pretty easy to say "this isn't true", but at least on the side of looking at what gets released in the US, I can't think of a single one that doesn't fall in with Omega Labyrinth and others.

He's saying Omega Labyrinth is not part of some overwhelming majority, read the bold.

Honestly this always seems to be the case where a westerner finds the niche otaku stuff and just assumes it's like this all over Japan.

 

[plasmawave]

I personally feel we should let people make what games they want, its an art form after all, but I do feel maybe they should be limits, but these limits can be best defined as "Its in the law" basically I'm saying, No more loli bullshit please.

So murder is out?

 

[ShyGuy0504]

Didn't know about this game until this thread.

It sounds awesome. I want it.

 

[Comfort Jones]

Didn't know about this game until this thread.

It sounds awesome. I want it.

 

[Snkfanatic]

Yep that's an avatar.

 

[AerialAir]

So what games out of Japan handle sexuality/nudity/etc in a mature and adult fashion? Seems pretty easy to say "this isn't true", but at least on the side of looking at what gets released in the US, I can't think of a single one that doesn't fall in with Omega Labyrinth and others.

Fire Emblem. Just an example, cause most of the games that come out of japan (Ico, metal gear, souls) don't even have any relevant sexual themes

 

[LordJim]

So what games out of Japan handle sexuality/nudity/etc in a mature and adult fashion? Seems pretty easy to say "this isn't true", but at least on the side of looking at what gets released in the US, I can't think of a single one that doesn't fall in with Omega Labyrinth and others.

Catherine alone puts most western works to shame

 

[SilentRob]

I'm pretty sure that isn't true either.

It's entirely possible I just don't know all the games that handle sex differently but some recent examples would be nice

I just looked at two pages of newly or soon to be released Playstation Vita games in Japan. This is what i got. I originally posted pictures for all of them in spoiler tags, but they are just too NSFW at points, so I'll leave it to you to google them yourself

Kissato

Makoto attends a local school which specializes in the arts, but he didn’t have much confidence in his ability. Nearing the end of his second year, he came to the workspace that was opened up to students to work on his year-end project. Sitting next to him was a girl from another class, Tsukuyo, who was famous for her art skills. After watching her work and seeing her art, he fell in love with her.

(https://vndb.org/v13632) That quote sounds like it could have some potential...but nope. Just your regular big-breasted teenagers you can jack-off to.

Criminal Girls 2

In Criminal Girls 2, you are an adviser of Hell that controls the fates of 7 girls - bad and naughty sinners in their own rights. They must follow your every beck and call as you guide them through Hell's devious “Resurrection” Rehabilitation Program taking place in the Tower of Hell.

Of course, nothing is ever that smooth, especially if it concerns the underworld; each girl has their own unique personality - some shy, some lewd, some vivacious, and each has a dark past to uncover; you must steel yourself and commit to bringing these girls around through the only way you know how: saucy punishments masquerading as motivational sessions!

GIRL FRIEND BETA KIMI TO SUGOSU NATSUYASUMI

The game is a dating simulator which features over 100 different virtual girls, each with a unique voice actress. The player progresses their relationship with the virtual girlfriend by taking her on dates.

Moe Chronicle

Moero Chronicle is Compile Heart's Dungeon RPG follow-up to Genkai Toki Monster Monpiece - including Compile Heart's risqué, and apt, description of a "rubbing, pinching, panty-wearing RPG." Okay, so we have an idea of what we should expect.

The story follows Io, a young boy troubled by his profane and arguably perverted thoughts, which affects his ability to comfortably interact with the opposite sex.

Omega Labyrinth

The titular mechanic 'Omega Power' affects the chest size of the characters you control, gradually increasing the size over time. As your character's chest size increases, so will their status, and when your status reaches its maximum potential 'Hatsumune Mode' will be triggered! As you fight and explore your way through dungeons you'll earn points that be used to earn new items.

Those are only the ones I found after about 10 seconds of looking at some new releases. I didn't even include a fair amount of the regular "Date big-breasted 15-year olds!"-games.

This aren't just some exceptions. These are the rule.