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[Chaos2Frozen]

Article isn't about general arousal, the thread isnt even about general arousal, no one said anything about general arousal being wrong, however, this thread IS about sexualized underage girls, and in that context, it's wrong no matter how you try to spin it, even by passively aggressively pointing out that they're not real.

As I've explained it, I was responding to this quote who was responding to me

Violence does not exist in games for the purpose of arousal.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

I don't think developers use violence in their games for the main purpose of sexual arousal, except maybe for a very select few examples I don't really want to know about.

EDIT: Why are we even discussing this anyway?

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

I don't think developers use violence in their games for the main purpose of sexual arousal, except maybe for a very select few examples I don't really want to know about.

EDIT: Why are we even discussing this anyway?

Like I've been saying, I was just responding to a guy who was responding to me.

 

[HGH]

Article isn't about general arousal, the thread isnt even about general arousal, no one said anything about general arousal being wrong, however, this thread IS about sexualized underage girls, and in that context, it's wrong no matter how you try to spin it, even by passively aggressively pointing out that they're not real.

Actually, I'm pretty sure no one said anything about "underaged" until about page 6. It was mostly about general sexual stuff, but people keep coming back to this subject for some reason.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

And see, that's a big problem in this discussion. As long as these localization companies just keep bringing the same old kind of fanservice games, articles like this will continue to pop up and people in the West will continue to think that is the majority of what Japanese games are like, which isn't the case.

I don't think this is even confirmed for the west. Not sure why Parish decided to write about it.

No. It should be used when necessary and as a means of shaming leinient countries like jpn into action. Jpn only outlawed child pornography possession and distribution in 2014 and they excluded videogames and comics from the law. Japan is friendly towards pedos, and should be labeled as such.

Japan outlawed production and distribution of child pornography in 1999. It has nothing to do with being friendly toward pedos, it was just an incomplete policy that people stupidly thought would halt possession as well.

It should also be noted that Japan has FAR lower child sexual abuse cases than most developed nations, beating out America at least 10 fold even when taking into account the population difference. Even if we assume many cases are unreported, it wouldn't even come close to evening out the numbers statistically. Perhaps the existence of the kinds of drawings and games we're talking about has something to do with that, or maybe there's no correlation. Either way, the fact remains they're doing much better than a lot of countries on that front (ESPECIALLY compared to some of their neighbors in Asia).

 

[PhineBuyM3]

I don't necessarily want games like Omega Labyrinth to go away... I just think it's time for them to grow up, you know?

I think the people seemingly concerned with cultural esteem from outsiders need to do the growing up than the developers of risque content.

 

[Delusibeta]

It's time for that Far Cry 3 quote everybody quotes, ladies and gentlemen.

I'm genuinely surprised that after Dragon's Crown, Killer Is Dead, Senran Kagura, Dungeon Travellers 2 and probably a tonne of others that I've forgotten about (and I'll include Hatred in there for good measure, even though it's not otaku-aimed), game journalists keep doing the same thing and are continuiously disappointed that they all recieve the same outcome. You would have thought that they would have noticed the pattern by now:

1) Write editorial shitting on a otaku-aimed game X, making it seem like a far larger problem than a game that would struggle to sell more than 100k copies worldwide.
2) Include a sentence that reads "I'm not calling for X to not be made, but [description of how wonderful it would be if X was not made, making it blatantly obvious that the first half of the sentence is a lie]
3) Add window dressing to try to hide that you're shitting on X
4) Otaku get defensive.
5) Other people point out that the article is simply shitting on X
6) Writer in question is surprised by 4 & 5 happening.
7) There's a thread on NeoGAF which contains a bunch of people calling other people pedos and getting away with that scot-free
8) X gains a boost of popularity and pre-orders.

Everytime, the same outcome. And then the next plonker tries 1, 2 and 3, and is surprised that 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 happen, and the next, and so on and so forth.

There's two minor changes to the formula that been made here. The first is that X (in this case, Omega Labyrinth) isn't available to pre-order outside of Japan. We don't know if it's any good or not, we don't know if it's ever going to be localised etc. It's ultimately a fairly minor detail that reduces the number of pre-orders the game gets as a direct result of the article (for obvious reasons). The second is that the writer claims that he'll respect it more if it was outright porn, which is the most blatant lie I've seen anyone from the videogame press say in quite a while.

Ultimately, if you want shit to change, don't do the same damn thing. Instead of writing about how you want less of A, how about writing about how you want more of B instead? That way there, you do actively want more popularity and pre-orders for your subject.

(Cue a bunch of people making the "expose the bad thing" argument, which has been demonistrated in this case and all of the previous cases and likely all future cases that it just ends up in said bad thing getting more sales)

 

[Riposte]

Actually, I'm pretty sure no one said anything about "underaged" until about page 6. It was mostly about general sexual stuff, but people keep coming back to this subject for some reason.

Looking at the images of the game's characters presented in the article, the whole argument comes off as a moot point (and a bit of a dead horse).

BTW, the art style comes off as very generic compared to something like Senran Kagura.

 

[viveks86]

What about Ocean Blue's avatar bothers you exactly? It's a girl smiling into a camera.

Please see the other post I quoted in that comment (Maou). Was referring to my own avatar

 

[marrec]

Jeremy Parish putting creeps on blast, love it.

As a lover of tradition dungeon crawling rogue-likes, too many of them are fucking shameful. It'd be nice to see the industry grow up and move past this horny teenager phase but looks like too many fans are perpetually stuck there so developers are going to continue selling to them.

At least I can play Binding of Isaac on a plane, whatever.

 

[YianGaruga]

Jeremy Parish putting creeps on blast, love it.

As a lover of tradition dungeon crawling rogue-likes, too many of them are fucking shameful. It'd be nice to see the industry grow up and move past this horny teenager phase but looks like too many fans are perpetually stuck there so developers are going to continue selling to them.

At least I can play Binding of Isaac on a plane, whatever.

Binding of Isaac is certainly the epitome of maturity in video games

 

[Deleted member 126221]

Binding of Isaac is certainly the epitome of maturity in video games

Something doesn't have to be "super mature" to not be disturbingly creepy.

 

[YianGaruga]

Something doesn't have to be "super mature" to not be disturbingly creepy.

Did I say that?

 

[marrec]

Binding of Isaac is certainly the epitome of maturity in video games

Did you even read the sentence? At least I can play that on a plane without having to worry about the smelly dude next to me wondering if I'm a fucking pedophile, it's South Park levels of offensive at best.

Some of these jRPGs on the Vita especially are just unplayable in public if you want to keep any degree of respectability or dignity. Even if they weren't garbage from a gameplay perspective anyway.

 

[RockTurtle]

i didn't know games was a medium that was held specifically for certain people and that those people had to be catered to only.

i wonder if parish needs to be sent a definition of "niche".

not every game has to be marketed or sold to everyone. that's not how all business works.

it's as if every game has to strive to win an oscar or (with the latest indie trends) aim to win a sundance award.

"I'm not saying you can't play your icky games, but it would be good for me and you if they go away forever. tastes are subjective of course, but my tastes are objective cause i'm for social justice or whatever and that means i'm free from criticism. nevermind the criticism i made first".

and it's not enough to be told to ignore those games. no, their existence somehow impedes this person from enjoying the games he likes or that exemplify what he thinks games should be.

and for some, softcore is far more enjoyable and arousing than straight hardcore. softcore is a big business in itself.

 

[HGH]

If South Park is your idea of "mildly offensive", then that's pretty weird.
Don't come in just to insult people left and right.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

i didn't know games was a medium that was held specifically for certain people and that those people had to be catered to only.

i wonder if parish needs to be sent a definition of "niche".

Something belonging to a niche protects it from being discussed and criticized? Might as well close down Gaf then.

 

[LPride]

Jeremy Parish putting creeps on blast, love it.

As a lover of tradition dungeon crawling rogue-likes, too many of them are fucking shameful. It'd be nice to see the industry grow up and move past this horny teenager phase but looks like too many fans are perpetually stuck there so developers are going to continue selling to them.

At least I can play Binding of Isaac on a plane, whatever.

"Binding of Issac" was delivered with such good comedic timing I'd almost assume you were joking. Is the entire Poop on a Baby aesthetic not juvenile and adolescent?

 

[Kintaro]

Did you even read the sentence? At least I can play that on a plane without having to worry about the smelly dude next to me wondering if I'm a fucking pedophile, it's South Park levels of offensive at best.

Some of these jRPGs on the Vita especially are just unplayable in public if you want to keep any degree of respectability or dignity. Even if they weren't garbage from a gameplay perspective anyway.

You're playing a Vita in public. You've already taken a hit to your "respectability and dignity." =)

 

[marrec]

If South Park is your idea of "mildly offensive", then that's pretty weird.

I dunno I didn't play Stick of Truth. Guess I was underestimating South Parks offensiveness.

Isaac is all poop jokes and religious imagery set to crude retro graphics, I don't feel weird playing it in public like I would if I played Omega Labyrinth. The point is, that the horrible conceit the game is based on (shameless pandering to a 12 y/o's idea of sexuality) would hold me back from playing what may be a good game.

Who knows though, the game is probably shit.

 

[HGH]

The fact that the games mentioned are niche is in fact a point against the article, which was asking for companies to go full blown pornographic when their ability to do so is completely limited by what the bigger players in the industry do. However, this discussion has pretty much shifted completely from the original content within.

 

[marrec]

You're playing a Vita in public. You've already taken a hit to your "respectability and dignity." =)

Yea, you're right. A Vita is like the Cargo Shorts of the gaming industry.

 

[Giolon]

It's time for that Far Cry 3 quote everybody quotes, ladies and gentlemen.

I'm genuinely surprised that after Dragon's Crown, Killer Is Dead, Senran Kagura, Dungeon Travellers 2 and probably a tonne of others that I've forgotten about (and I'll include Hatred in there for good measure, even though it's not otaku-aimed), game journalists keep doing the same thing and are continuiously disappointed that they all recieve the same outcome. You would have thought that they would have noticed the pattern by now:

1) Write editorial shitting on a otaku-aimed game X, making it seem like a far larger problem than a game that would struggle to sell more than 100k copies worldwide.
2) Include a sentence that reads "I'm not calling for X to not be made, but [description of how wonderful it would be if X was not made, making it blatantly obvious that the first half of the sentence is a lie]
3) Add window dressing to try to hide that you're shitting on X
4) Otaku get defensive.
5) Other people point out that the article is simply shitting on X
6) Writer in question is surprised by 4 & 5 happening.
7) There's a thread on NeoGAF which contains a bunch of people calling other people pedos and getting away with that scot-free
8) X gains a boost of popularity and pre-orders.

Everytime, the same outcome. And then the next plonker tries 1, 2 and 3, and is surprised that 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 happen, and the next, and so on and so forth.

There's two minor changes to the formula that been made here. The first is that X (in this case, Omega Labyrinth) isn't available to pre-order outside of Japan. We don't know if it's any good or not, we don't know if it's ever going to be localised etc. It's ultimately a fairly minor detail that reduces the number of pre-orders the game gets as a direct result of the article (for obvious reasons). The second is that the writer claims that he'll respect it more if it was outright porn, which is the most blatant lie I've seen anyone from the videogame press say in quite a while.

Ultimately, if you want shit to change, don't do the same damn thing. Instead of writing about how you want less of A, how about writing about how you want more of B instead? That way there, you do actively want more popularity and pre-orders for your subject.

(Cue a bunch of people making the "expose the bad thing" argument, which has been demonistrated in this case and all of the previous cases and likely all future cases that it just ends up in said bad thing getting more sales)

Reminds me of the time when Jason Schreier came onto GAF and called people who actually liked the Sorceress's design pedophiles/had a loli complex b/c of her young looking face (in the midst of his "Kamitani is a 12 year old boy" and "I'm not saying Dragon's Crown should be banned, I just wish it didn't exist" articles fallout), and when people here told him that's not even remotely close to what loli is he tossed out a classic "well sorry I'm not an expert in loli like you people".... WTF.......

 

[Yasumi]

Reminds me of the time when Jason Schreier came onto GAF and called people who actually liked the Sorceress's design pedophiles/had a loli complex b/c of her young looking face (in the midst of his "Kamitani is a 12 year old boy" and "I'm not saying Dragon's Crown should be banned, I just wish it didn't exist" articles fallout), and when people here told him that's not even remotely close to what loli is he tossed out a classic "well sorry I'm not an expert in loli like you people".... WTF.......

The was the funniest thing ever, and I'll never be able to take Schreier seriously again because of it.

 

[LPride]

Reminds me of the time when Jason Schreier came onto GAF and called people who actually liked the Sorceress's design pedophiles/had a loli complex b/c of her young looking face (in the midst of his "Kamitani is a 12 year old boy" and "I'm not saying Dragon's Crown should be banned, I just wish it didn't exist" articles fallout), and when people here told him that's not even remotely close to what loli is he tossed out a classic "well sorry I'm not an expert in loli like you people".... WTF.......

When people get caught flat out either lying, or obviously having no knowledge of what theyre talking about, they tend to get pissy and lash out. Nothing surprising.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

I'm curious: what kind of expertise do you need to be able to judge if a game like Omega Labyrinth or Criminal Girls is troubling?

 

[viveks86]

You're playing a Vita in public. You've already taken a hit to your "respectability and dignity." =)

 

[BigDes]

The fact that the games mentioned are niche is in fact a point against the article, which was asking for companies to go full blown pornographic when their ability to do so is completely limited by what the bigger players in the industry do. However, this discussion has pretty much shifted completely from the original content within.

Indeed, Charelquin condensed the article into a single post that was easy to understand and make sense of on like page 7.

It is a post that seems to have been thoroughly ignored.

 

[LPride]

I'm curious: what kind of expertise do you need to be able to judge if a game like Omega Labyrinth or Criminal Girls is troubling?

Whats troubling about them, aside from being sexy? Its not like theyre representative of any major trends or anything. There hasnt been an unmitigated swarm of breast growing games in the last decade and if anything this sort of game is on the decline. So what is even the issue?

Or is everyone just wringing thier hands over outliers?

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Whats troubling about them, aside from being sexy? Its not like theyre representative of any major trends or anything. There hasnt been an unmitigated swarm of breast growing games in the last decade and if anything this sort of game is on the decline. So what is even the issue?

Or is everyone just wringing thier hands over outliers?

I was told in the previous page that arousal is a bit taboo in the west.

 

[marrec]

Whats troubling about them, aside from being sexy? Its not like theyre representative of any major trends or anything. There hasnt been an unmitigated swarm of breast growing games in the last decade and if anything this sort of game is on the decline. So what is even the issue?

Or is everyone just wringing thier hands over outliers?

Dude, if you play RPGs on the Vita it's not an outlier.

I just hope to hell the new Xanadu game isn't replite with pandering bullshit.

 

[Producer]

Reminds me of the time when Jason Schreier came onto GAF and called people who actually liked the Sorceress's design pedophiles/had a loli complex b/c of her young looking face (in the midst of his "Kamitani is a 12 year old boy" and "I'm not saying Dragon's Crown should be banned, I just wish it didn't exist" articles fallout), and when people here told him that's not even remotely close to what loli is he tossed out a classic "well sorry I'm not an expert in loli like you people".... WTF.......

Lmao, wish i could i have been here to witness that. He handled all that DC fiasco stuff like an amateur.

 

[LPride]

I was told in the previous page that arousal is a bit taboo in the west.

Theres no trends suggesting that games are going to turn into a bunch of smut, the exact opposite has been happening for the last 5 years in fact. And people are fighting and getting banned over something that probably wont sell more than 20k copies and is a complete novelty.

What about this game is a symptom of gamings 'never ending adolescence' when it is small enough to be under the radar of 99% of consumers and is counter to all recent trends in the hobby?

 

[Deleted member 126221]

I was told in the previous page that arousal is a bit taboo in the west.

Arousal from underage anime girls particularly.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Reminds me of the time when Jason Schreier came onto GAF and called people who actually liked the Sorceress's design pedophiles/had a loli complex b/c of her young looking face (in the midst of his "Kamitani is a 12 year old boy" and "I'm not saying Dragon's Crown should be banned, I just wish it didn't exist" articles fallout), and when people here told him that's not even remotely close to what loli is he tossed out a classic "well sorry I'm not an expert in loli like you people".... WTF.......

Not Schreier's best moment, but I still love him. There are no bad Danganronpa fans.

 

[LPride]

Arousal from underage anime girls particularly.

How old is Aina Akemiya? Just curious

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Arousal from underage anime girls particularly.

I was very specifically talking about general arousal though.

 

[Yasumi]

Not Schreier's best moment, but I still love him. There are no bad Danganronpa fans.

Speaking of, Another Episode is going to bring a lot of interesting topics and discussion. Hopefully people can keep it mature.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

I was very specifically talking about general arousal though.

Following your train of thought is painful. You replied to someone talking about Omega Labyrinth and Criminal Girls specifically, not "general arousal".

How old is Aina Akemiya? Just curious

No idea who you're talking about (a character from a loli jrpg I guess), and I'm not that interested to know. Feel free to use that post to discredit me as I dare speak negatively about something I'm not an expert of.

 

[marrec]

How old is Aina Akemiya? Just curious

The Embellir Girls’ Academy is where girls grow into maidens with gorgeous bodies, hearts, and with beautiful voices. However, there was a mysterious rumor to this academy—about a “Holy Grail of Beauty” that is said to grant any wish, and it’s located somewhere in the academy.

It didn’t take long for the girls to get curious about this rumor. They say that the girl is hidden deep within a cave that has been around the academy since its older days. This cave is normally forbidden to enter, but they open it only on the founding anniversary of the academy, for just one day.

From this description they sound like high schoolers at best.

Also this:

Is 1000 y/o dragon territory.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

No idea who you're talking about (a character from a loli jrpg I guess), and I'm not that interested to know. Feel free to use that post to discredit me as I dare speak negatively about something I'm not an expert of.

Protagonist of the game this thread is about. She looks to be in the 16-18 range to me.

 

[Led_Zeppelin]

Lmao, wish i could i have been here to witness that. He handled all that DC fiasco stuff like an amateur.

It isn't as hilarious at its sound mostly because he was never trying to admit any wrong doing from his pov and took his opinions as facts. "I don't like it so it must not exist and everyone that likes it or buy it is a pedophile! My emotions! Those defenseless anime girls!".

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Following your train of thought is painful. You replied to someone talking about Omega Labyrinth and Criminal Girls specifically, not "general arousal".

I really was not though. I was replying to someone who quoted me.

No idea who you're talking about (a character from a loli jrpg I guess), and I'm not that interested to know. Feel free to use that post to discredit me as I dare speak negatively about something I'm not an expert of.

So you're literally using the "I'm not an expert at Loli" defense mentioned in the previous posts

 

[Led_Zeppelin]

Following your train of thought is painful. You replied to someone talking about Omega Labyrinth and Criminal Girls specifically, not "general arousal".


No idea who you're talking about (a character from a loli jrpg I guess), and I'm not that interested to know. Feel free to use that post to discredit me as I dare speak negatively about something I'm not an expert of.

Hello Jason, I didn't knew you had a second gaf account.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Speaking of, Another Episode is going to bring a lot of interesting topics and discussion. Hopefully people can keep it mature.

If it remains in the thread, it should be fine as people will have context and know that none of it is played for titillation. However, if someone makes a thread complaining about it, bringing in people that don't know the context, there will be a lot of accusations thrown around.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

If it remains in the thread, it should be fine as people will have context and know that none of it is played for titillation. However, if someone makes a thread complaining about it, bringing in people that don't know the context, there will be a lot of accusations thrown around.

I'm a huge Danganronpa fan, but you can't deny there's questionable fanservice in the series too, particularly in the 2nd game.

So you're literally using the "I'm not an expert at Loli" defense mentioned in the previous posts

thatsthejoke.jpg

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I'm a huge Danganronpa fan, but you can't deny there's questionable fanservice in the series too, particularly in the 2nd game.

2 is nothing compared to what you'll see in Another Episode in both violence and sexuality. The difference is Mikan actually is played for titillation, or according to Kodaka, a parody of it.

But I still got 1 chapter to go, so maybe it'll get much worse.

 

[Shizuka]

2 is nothing compared to what you'll see in Another Episode in both violence and sexuality. The difference is Mikan actually is played for titillation, or according to Kodaka, a parody of it.

But I still got 1 chapter to go, so maybe it'll got much worse.

But AE is exactly what you said, violence and sexuality. Fanservice could be considered less than the second game.

 

[marrec]

If it remains in the thread, it should be fine as people will have context and know that none of it is played for titillation. However, if someone makes a thread complaining about it, bringing in people that don't know the context, there will be a lot of accusations thrown around.

If it makes sense contextually that usually it's fairly accepted... but still fan service. Like the depictions of Clover in both those games... totally unnecessary and obviously for fan service, but contextually they made it work so it's overlooked mostly when talking about them.

Omega Labyrinth may redefine the idea of "context". I mean, we already have "plot" so probably not.

 

[Northeastmonk]

You're playing a Vita in public. You've already taken a hit to your "respectability and dignity." =)

I don't know how perception of one self is for everyone, but when I go out I have the all hands on deck approach. Sure I could do other things, but that's what the house is for. If you're playing a Vita somewhere where professionals are at then I assume it's just something getting in the way of work or relaxing. I'm not trying to sound negative about it, but I don't curl up in a corner like some people do and play my PSP or Vita. I'd love it we all did, but chances are you aren't going to do it.

It's something I think we all have to accept after we hit 12 years of age. We go out for exercise, shopping, and work. Anyone suspects another person's actions if they're just hanging out. I think when arcades were at their height the idea wasn't looked so frowned upon.

We still live in a culture where adults are the workers and if you don't see them working then they should be either exercising or eating.

From my knowledge no one has ever been charged for showing someone images of breasts or butts on their Vita or smartphone, but I could be wrong. Would it even be considered pornography? Institutions like work, school, and etc. have deemed gaming this struggle of maturity or violent culture. I'd assume they'd take any complaint as being serious.

The negative attitude about games lives in children as well as adults. They assume stupidity follows and they tend to have the same negative feelings towards gaming in general. Two wrongs don't make a right, so I just assume our culture is what it is.