He's saying Omega Labyrinth is not part of some overwhelming majority, read the bold.
Honestly this always seems to be the case where a westerner finds the niche otaku stuff and just assumes it's like this all over Japan.
I can't think of any, but that wasn't what he was saying.So what games out of Japan handle sexuality/nudity/etc in a mature and adult fashion? Seems pretty easy to say "this isn't true", but at least on the side of looking at what gets released in the US, I can't think of a single one that doesn't fall in with Omega Labyrinth and others.
I personally feel we should let people make what games they want, its an art form after all, but I do feel maybe they should be limits, but these limits can be best defined as "Its in the law" basically I'm saying, No more loli bullshit please.
Right, and I'm disagreeing.
Among Japanese games that address sexuality/nudity at all, the pervy as fuck stuff that Parish is railing against *are* the majority.
So murder is out?
So basically you agree with the French sûreté publique when they prosecuted Baudelaire and his editors back in 1857 for crime against public moral (they didn't appreciate his verses about Sappho, among others). Amusing.
But hey,
Elle était donc couchée et se laissait aimer,
Et du haut du divan elle souriait daise
À mon amour profond et doux comme la mer,
Qui vers elle montait comme vers sa falaise.
*is* borderline pornographic, however you wish to turn it.
Well yeah, I mean you can make a very strong argument against 19th century obscenity laws, one I'd agree with, but that has little actual bearing on "don't make pedo games", as that's what the poster implied.So basically you agree with the French sûreté publique when they prosecuted Baudelaire and his editors back in 1857 for crime against public moral (they didn't appreciate his verses about Sappho, among others). Amusing.
But hey,
Elle était donc couchée et se laissait aimer,
Et du haut du divan elle souriait daise
À mon amour profond et doux comme la mer,
Qui vers elle montait comme vers sa falaise.
*is* borderline pornographic, however you wish to turn it.
I am now sold.Omega Labyrinth, however, allows you to identify items by... rubbing them between your heroines' breasts
It's entirely possible I just don't know all the games that handle sex differently but some recent examples would be nice
I just looked at two pages of newly or soon to be released Playstation Vita games in Japan. This is what i got. I originally posted pictures for all of them in spoiler tags, but they are just too NSFW at points, so I'll leave it to you to google them yourself
Kissato
(https://vndb.org/v13632) That quote sounds like it could have some potential...but nope. Just your regular big-breasted teenagers you can jack-off to.
Criminal Girls 2
GIRL FRIEND BETA KIMI TO SUGOSU NATSUYASUMI
Moe Chronicle
Omega Labyrinth
Those are only the ones I found after about 10 seconds of looking at some new releases. I didn't even include a fair amount of the regular "Date big-breasted 15-year olds!"-games.
This aren't just some exceptions. These are the rule.
It's entirely possible I just don't know all the games that handle sex differently but some recent examples would be nice
I just looked at two pages of newly or soon to be released Playstation Vita games in Japan. This is what i got. I originally posted pictures for all of them in spoiler tags, but they are just too NSFW at points, so I'll leave it to you to google them yourself
Kissato
(https://vndb.org/v13632) That quote sounds like it could have some potential...but nope. Just your regular big-breasted teenagers you can jack-off to.
Criminal Girls 2
GIRL FRIEND BETA KIMI TO SUGOSU NATSUYASUMI
Moe Chronicle
Omega Labyrinth
Those are only the ones I found after about 10 seconds of looking at some new releases. I didn't even include a fair amount of the regular "Date big-breasted 15-year olds!"-games.
This aren't just some exceptions. These are the rule.
*Looks at avatar through corner of eye*
Lol
I mostly agree with what you are saying. I guess I'm less interested in judging the author's output and intent as I am about discussing the underpinning issues being raised. Omega Labyrinth is of no interest to me, but it represents a serious issue that plagues all kinds of games in all kinds of genres. The article does bring that up, albeit in a poorly chosen format with a poorly chosen game. Wish we would get past that
I guess I just personally feel that the whole idea of Lolis is kind of disgusting I really can't see how its ok, e.g. I enjoyed the Senran Kagura games, but that one character in the maid outfit made me real uncomfortable and I didn't see the point in her at all.
So just to clarify, this is the instant labeling given towards people who likes perverted games- But people who like violent, gory games are given the benefit of the doubt?
Aren't they both imaginary fiction?
Violence does not exist in games for the purpose of arousal.
It's entirely possible I just don't know all the games that handle sex differently but some recent examples would be nice
I just looked at two pages of newly or soon to be released Playstation Vita games in Japan. This is what i got. I originally posted pictures for all of them in spoiler tags, but they are just too NSFW at points, so I'll leave it to you to google them yourself
Kissato
(https://vndb.org/v13632) That quote sounds like it could have some potential...but nope. Just your regular big-breasted teenagers you can jack-off to.
Criminal Girls 2
GIRL FRIEND BETA KIMI TO SUGOSU NATSUYASUMI
[MG]http://img.amiami.jp/images/product/main/152//GAME-0014209.jpg[/IMG]
Moe Chronicle
[IG]http://s3.pacn.ws/360/m6/moe-chronicle-chinese-english-sub-399349.18.jpg?nntj2r[/IMG]
Omega Labyrinth
Those are only the ones I found after about 10 seconds of looking at some new releases. I didn't even include a fair amount of the regular "Date big-breasted 15-year olds!"-games.
This aren't just some exceptions. These are the rule.
Yeah, nobody ever referred to a game as gun porn.
Yeah, nobody ever referred to a game as gun porn.
And people who use the term "food porn" are suggesting arousal from food? Please.
We should be able to agree that sexual content exists for very specific purpose that game violence does not occupy.
Ive played and enjoyed games that contain content as is discussed here, and I never once considered myself aroused or started to touch myself.
There are other games for that purpose on PC, and the gulf between those and the subjects of this thread are vast.
"The ratings restrictions and console content approval rules that result in games that skirt the boundaries of pornography without being allowed to just be honest and show the nudity and sexuality their creators clearly want to"
I mean, think about what I said here: what does what they made tell us about them and who they think their audience is? Rockstar thinks their audience enjoys a fantasy life of violent hedonism and crime. Is that great? Not really, but it has its roots in a kind of anti-authoritanism that has a pretty long history and sometimes comes from a complex place. What do the makers of Call of Duty think their audience wants? Well, jingoistic military power fantasies basically, and I think that's really gross and that we don't talk about the fucked up politics of CoD nearly enough. But what do the makers of games like these think that their audience wants? Sexualized depictions of characters who are usually a combination of young and innocent.But where does this depiction stop? Afterall what does it say about Rockstar thinking up the scenario's they make in GTA in regards to glorifying bank heists, drugs and criminal life vs the 10's of millions of people who buy the game and the 10's of millions of people who buy Call of Duty every year etc. There's a cut off point between reality vs fantasy that needs to be acknowledged.
Violence does not exist in games for the purpose of arousal.
I mean, think about what I said here: what does what they made tell us about them and who they think their audience is? Rockstar thinks their audience enjoys a fantasy life of violent hedonism and crime. Is that great? Not really, but it has its roots in a kind of anti-authoritanism that has a pretty long history and sometimes comes from a complex place. What do the makers of Call of Duty think their audience wants? Well, jingoistic military power fantasies basically, and I think that's really gross and that we don't talk about the fucked up politics of CoD nearly enough. But what do the makers of games like these think that their audience wants? Sexualized depictions of characters who are usually a combination of young and innocent.
Forget the question of if the game has a "real effect" or anything like that. This is ultimately what it comes down to me: do I want to support a developer who produces a game designed to appeal to that sort of person? And sorry but when you do buy such a game you tell me that you don't mind supporting a developer who targets that kind of audience which reads as tacit approval, or at least not disapproval
What's all this abo----
I can totally see how an average person would explode in a grossout editorial over this.
Generally agreed on the point of the article but I think he forgets that Japan as a whole is better for sex and games when you consider visual novels. Lots of stuff there that deals with sex quite frankly. Not that we'd get those here, lol
And see, that's a big problem in this discussion. As long as these localization companies just keep bringing the same old kind of fanservice games, articles like this will continue to pop up and people in the West will continue to think that is the majority of what Japanese games are like, which isn't the case.
And see, that's a big problem in this discussion. As long as these localization companies just keep bringing the same old kind of fanservice games, articles like this will continue to pop up and people in the West will continue to think that is the majority of what Japanese games are like, which isn't the case.
And see, that's a big problem in this discussion. As long as these localization companies just keep bringing the same old kind of fanservice games, articles like this will continue to pop up and people in the West will continue to think that is the majority of what Japanese games are like, which isn't the case.
It is a bit of an asinine point to make, because it's a grave people like Parish would love to dig for these games. The idea that he genuinely finds cheesecake-heavy games "sleazier" than the eroge games (which are only allowed to exist outside consoles/portables) is hard to believe. So it's really a matter of being frustrated they don't jump into the grave.
That's putting aside the point that these developers may find a specific appeal to being risque, but not explicit. Comedy, for example, is rarely sexually explicit even when very sexually charged.
I don't have an issue with the policies. I do think personally, calling someone a pedophile is one of the worst things you can call someone, and such rhetoric should be used very, very sparingly. That's what I have an issue with right now.
The term pedophile should be reserved for the Jareds of the world.
1: Japan is inherently strange
"To find oneself suddenly in a world where everything is upon a smaller and daintier scale than with us - a world of lesser and seemingly kindlier beings, all smiling at you as if to wish you well - a world where all movement is slow and soft, and voices are hushed… this is surely the realisation, for imaginations nourished with English folklore, of the old dream of a World of Elves."
That was the writer Lafcadio Hearn, 125 years ago. Across the century that followed, countless Westerners visited and worked in Japan. Japanese culture became readily available to us in literature and film. And yet despite all this, the keynote of the brilliant 1980s travelogue Clive James in Japan was a drily comic bewilderment at everything.
When he buys a snack on a bullet train, thinking that it might be a ham sandwich (while also noting that it looks like a pair of tights) it turns out to be a powerful-smelling dried squid - "dried and ironed" he speculates. Revolted, James stuffs the snack into the seat pocket and heads off for his next misadventure with the carriage's on-board telephone.
Clive James wasn't alone. Soon came Michael Palin, who shared with James a tendency to observe and commentate on the Japanese from a distance, without really engaging directly.
Maybe I shouldn't gripe. This was light entertainment, after all. But whereas most travel documentaries try to offer a portrait of a place, helping viewers or listeners get to know it, when it came to the Japanese the underlying message was: "It can't be done! They're completely inscrutable!"
Why? One reason may be that in a world where true strangeness and surprise have become rare and precious commodities, we have to find them somewhere. Financial Times journalist David Pilling quotes a friend who said Japan was the most alien place she'd been that had good plumbing.
At the same time, Japan offers us a mirror in which to look at ourselves. We say "Japan is…", but we're really asking a question: "Are we…?" The Japanese are dainty, kindly, soft - are we coarse and hard-hearted? Japan is hobbled by a group mentality that trumps individualism - how free are we…?
3. Japanese women are submissive
Japan has been seen as the land that feminism forgot. Both Japanese and Western commentators have tended to see the geisha girl as the ideal of Japanese womanhood - attractive and subtle, subservient to men, but clever enough to be good company. Then there was the influential American anthropologist of the 1940s, Ruth Benedict, who heard that Japanese girls were given just enough education so they could put their husbands' books back the right way up once they'd finished dusting them. By the 1960s, for Western men unsure what to make of the rise of women's liberation movements, all of this appeared deeply attractive.
Japanese women even received the ultimate British seal of approval in 1967, as Mie Hama became Bond-girl "Kissy Suzuki" in You Only Live Twice. Given the low-down on domestic arrangements in Japan by his male host - women are inferior to men, they're happy with that, and they live to serve - Bond gives his blessing: "I think I'll retire here…
And if you think that nothing of this sort could possibly go on in the early 21st Century, then you haven't been paying attention to Japanese pop culture, and the success of Japanese pop behemoth AKB-48.
Yes, 48 young girls, forbidden from having boyfriends and content instead to smile and dance around in bikinis or mock military uniforms or really whatever a paying public of - critics would argue - socially inadequate young and middle-aged men want to see.
All in all, this particular myth about Japan is simply worth too much to too many people - Western men mourning the passing of the patriarchy, Western feminists looking for sisters to save in Asia, corporate Japan chasing the under-deodorised male dollar (or Yen) - for it to be revised any time soon.
It's the perfect example of how diverse interests come together over time to create misrepresentations with a surprisingly long shelf life.
I always wondered why people think that the existence of a 'bad' game invalidates the medium. Do Troma movies invalidate movies as a medium? No.
this guy gets it
It's funny that you can pretty much guess what will be said in a post just by looking at the poster's avatar in this thread. The... errr... "titillating japanese games featuring underage girls" defense force is a lot bigger than I thought.
It's funny that you can pretty much guess what will be said in a post just by looking at the poster's avatar in this thread.
Violence does not exist in games for the purpose of arousal.
This stupid shit should be bannable.
And secondly, is arousal some kind of uniquely forbidden taboo?
Arousal from imagery of sexualized children is a bit taboo, yeah.
It's a bit taboo in western societies. But what the article is complaining about is not the existence of sexual content in games, but how tacky and juvenile it almost always is. Taboo or not, it's just disappointing tiresome.
And lol at "protect those imaginary children". Way to consciously miss the point.
Violence does not exist in games for the purpose of arousal.
Article isn't about general arousal, the thread isnt even about general arousal, no one said anything about general arousal being wrong, however, this thread IS about sexualized underage girls, and in that context, it's wrong no matter how you try to spin it, even by passively aggressively pointing out that they're not real.I get it we got to protect those imaginary children. However I was talking about general arousal.