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[Northeastmonk]

We don't have any downright dangerous game(s) yet. Sure we have game(s) in bad taste like a lot of games made by Illusion Soft, which are often unplayable, uses older technology, and doesn't serve any other purpose. Often times they come off as being something showcasing hentai.

I don't see games that take it the point of shock. All these games that are being shown are so gentle on the topic until it's funny. It's like Goku in GT, it's chibi.

We haven't crossed over yet. In plain sight, some things sound worse than they really are. If we got the point where they caused problems or changed someone's mind then maybe I'd feel differently. I'm usually not shocked by what gets cut. It's usually more of a pain than if they actually kept it in there. I thought about what I'm talking about and I have this vision of a game in Unreal that would probably get itself banned period, but it's much more enlightening on the subject.

I have no problem with over sexualization. I think it's better applied as entertainment than taken seriously.

 

[Averon]

Expecting low-brow, extremely niche games to "grow up" and not be what it is that sold itself to its audience is unrealistic. The goal should be getting developers to make more of the games you want to play.

 

[Ingueferroque]

So what? What about all the murder simulators? Why not mention the Witcher or Mass Effect?

 

[viveks86]

So what? What about all the murder simulators?

Topic: "Too much violence in video games"
Comment: "So what? What about all the pornography?"

Topic: "Too much pornography in videogames"
Comment: "So what? What about all the violence?"

SMH

Why not mention the Witcher or Mass Effect?

Guess someone didn't actually read the article.

 

[bon]

I hadn't heard about this game, but I do like both roguelikes and boobs. Thanks for putting this on my radar USGamer.

 

[potatohead]

I don't think it's fair to say that Parish is asking for censorship.

Many of us are fans of Japanese games for different reasons, we all have our idea of what we want from games, like JRPGs,

And I personally don't like that some in this thread are taking Parish's statements to the extreme. He did not call for a ban, and he is not dictating they need to disappear.

Yes, that could be interpreted as his meaning between the lines. But that does not mean that is what his intention was. It is easy to take the extremist route and cause divisive politics on this topic, but that is the easy route and I hope people will stop doing that.

These topics should be discussed. Making people fearful of asking questions is worse than asking the question itself. Anyway, I digress....

What his article is about, IMO, is lamenting the fact that he feels there is a dearth of alternative content available from these developers who make games he otherwise thinks he would like, the sexual lolita content notwithstanding.

I think that is a fair assessment. It doesn't mean the lolita content is innately bad. At the same time, Jeremy Parish, the gamer, and person, has every right to show preference for other attributes in Japan-made games.

I personally think it's fair to comment on Japanese content hitting the international market to say that a lot of it contains sexualized teen fantasy content, or lolita content, or even arguably.

I also share the same feelings as Parish, and I find it easy to identify with his argument because of this. I grew up with SNES and PlayStation Final Fantasy and Chrono games, and to me those are, for better or worse, still the pinnacle of JRPGs that I always wish I will see again.

At that time, there was little or no reliance on sexualized protagonists (Tifa notwithstanding). Sure, there were some prototypical JRPG characterizations, of which Tifa may be the biggest offender as well.

But there was also subtext and substance behind many other aspects of the experience, and it wasn't dominated by sexualizing young girls.

When I played many more Japanese games back in the PlayStation 1 and 2 days, I saw a flair for style and coolness, an emphasis on science fiction fantasy, and incredible music, and deep and unique gameplay systems, and stunning FMVs.

Then that all disappeared even on the PS3. I didn't buy a single RPG outside of Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, because only FROM Software seemed interested in making a game that was also for me (I bought and returned Final Fantasy XIII, 2 weeks after launch day lol, 40 hours in... did not finish :/).

So I too, as a gamer, and a pop culture consumer, and as a person, will join Jeremy Parish in lamenting the current crop of JRPGs on offer. For the reasons of sexualization and other reasons.

Full disclosure: I also think subjects like "proportion of games with female lead characters" by Sarkeesian are also valuable for their face value. I find it of similar intellectual interest as "time to barrel" which is also a commentary on gaming conventions that can be taken at face value.

I believe content such as this article, and items like "time to barrel" offer a platform for conversation. And I hope others will stop trying to prevent that conversation from happening.

Making people fear or worried of sharing their opinion by taking extremist stances, or accusing others of taking extreme stances, is worse than the censorship people are accusing Parish of advocating (which he has not). We could all learn more deeply about the different perspectives on this issue without the antagonizing.

For example, although I do not personally play similar games, the sexualization doesn't immediately make it invalid, and I do not advocate any form of censorship. It would definitely interest me to have those who do explain their interest in this type of content.

Lastly I would like to share this BBC article I read earlier this year on Japan and laws concerning child pornography and artistic depictions of child porn in Japan, but not for the purposes of framing the entire discussion, only to add to the information pool and possible discussion: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-30698640

Japan and images of child sexual abuse

Japan outlawed the production and distribution of images of sexual abuse of children in 1999 - 21 years after the UK

In 2013, the US State Department described Japan as an "international hub for the production and trafficking of child pornography"

Japan's police agency reported 1,644 offences in 2013 - more than in any year since the 1999 law came into force

In June 2014, Japan banned possession of real images of child sexual abuse - people were given one year to comply

"I'm not comfortable with it, but it is not my right to tell people how they think or what they want to share," he says. "As long as it doesn't infringe upon people's human rights, what's wrong with having a fantasy life?"

 

[Maou]

We can agree on that. I feel that people are harping too much on the latter and refuse to acknowledge the former. The points being raised in the article can be applied just as well to several mainstream games with not so blatant goals. Don't you agree?

I keep seeing your avatar out of the corner of my eye and thinking it's one of the Ico/Colossus shadows out to get me. More on point, yes, Parish's article technically combines a lamentation about the absence of "sophisticated" approaches to sex with a critique of girlie games, but the former is framed in terms of the latter, and I think his inclusion of the latter is at best an underdeveloped strand of the essay and at worst a disingenuous prop when his real intent is to blast the former. (Which is fine, I guess, but poorly chosen in an article about being forthright about a topic rather than dealing in suggestion and innuendo.)

 

[Ingueferroque]

Topic: "Too much violence in video games"
Comment: "So what? What about all the pornography"

Topic: "Too much pornography in videogames"
Comment: "So what? What about all the violence?"

SMH


Guess someone didn't actually read the article.

Fine, you got me. This just seems like such an easy target...

 

[OceanBlue]

We can agree on that. I feel that people are harping too much on the latter and refuse to acknowledge the former. The points being raised in the article can be applied just as well to several mainstream games with not so blatant goals. Don't you agree?

Case in point:

Which is why the author brought up Mass Effect, so that the subject doesn't stay within a niche. But people dismissed it here as "lip service" so that they don't have to deal with the broader topic at hand.

Well it's hard to be surprised that people are focusing on the latter when there are only two paragraphs actually about a broader analysis of gaming in a ~14 paragraph article, the rest of which are about the latter. The Mass Effect mention amounts to lip service because there was no meaningful analysis to discuss and it is the subject of solely the caption and one sentence in the entire article.

 

[Auto-Reply]

How are they supposed to stay true to their intention all the way if plattformholder won't let them?

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

This article is overly sensational and skirts the big issue: Japanese developers being forced to pander because of market conditions, not because they sincerely want to make a sexy experience, or fanservice, or something entirely antithetical. Industries outside Japan (like in the U.S. or Korea) definitely have to face pressures analogous in concept, yet we don't suffer from the Japanese industry's set of circumstances in the same way or at the same degree.

Games like OL are perfectly fine, even if they come out mediocre—the concept's inherently ridiculous but still reverential of Wizardry and dungeon crawlers before it, plus it plays on the observation that East Asian women are flat and that this game's demographic might fantasize of breast expansion. In a timeline where there was as much variety of Japanese-developed/published games coming out today as in the late '80s and the '90s, this premise would be seen as meaningfully silly and demand a different set of expectations, given that no one would be starved for games like Star Cruiser or Linda Cube or Nectaris or Onryo Senki. OL would come off as the equivalent of an exploitation movie—and even giallo and pinku movies communicate interesting observations and concepts, as it's simply a matter of execution and (relative) originality. Right now people complain about the state of these games and their sexualization because it's forced in many situations where it's unnecessary or, as Parish would say, doesn't go far enough. I'm just glad that the Japanese market hasn't collapsed entirely or, like the anime industry, fallen so low that it may never recover even with external aid. Eventually Western patronage (and resuscitation of Japanese game buffs' interest in video game/tabletop game history (global and national), leading to greater variance in art-style and design goals) will even out the market and make viable a wider range of projects.

There's nothing the matter with eroge being a developer's focus, especially not something like YU-NO which integrates sex and bawdiness into a more interesting story. Japanese PC users were buying and enjoying these games even back when the PC-88 was dominant and you could play, say, Digan no Maseki if you wanted a more Western-like game, or you could get both via Dragon Knight. I see no reason to harangue the "otaku niche" that gets blamed for promoting these kinds of games, as they provide steady business in Japan's post-bubble era where games as impressive and competitively interesting as their predecessors wouldn't survive. The average game player is more likely to fiddle with Monster Strike during their commute/break period, or the other few mobile successes I can't recall, than something like Doukyuusei which the aforementioned niche has supported since Japanese PCs sported high-resolution video modes. Y'all forget about Yuji Horii's third PC adventure game, Karuizawa Kidnapping Guide (made concurrently with Dragon Quest), a modern-day thriller/mystery featuring a romance between the protagonist and the lover soon kidnapped. He didn't write that game in the context we inhabit today...before leaving for console development, he likely wanted to do something more risque, something that wouldn't fly on the Famicom without fine-tuning. To me it seems he didn't need to make KKG but wanted to and felt it would be another success together with Enix. I don't know if that game's well-written by the estimation of domestic and/or non-domestic players, but he wasn't the only game creator trying to deal with contemporary mysteries and facets of life aside from destruction (wargaming and murder plots).

I think games will eventually reach a personal standard of complexity that can be compared to what art-forms preceding it have attained, and this will happen more quickly than ever as is the custom with each art-form coming after the other. This will happen all over the world given how often it's discussed, but for some industries this will be difficult to reach. Ultimately I think articles like this point to a war over resources (budget, exposure, sales, rinse and repeat) that will only continue evolving. "Adolescence" is a larger umbrella of generalizations about game buffs, all of whom belong to both a global community and local communities. There are ways to both celebrate and critique games like Senran Kagura without spinning towards extremes. I'm often disappointed when a game's premise looks interesting but reaches inconsistency when appealing to a group if individuals' fetishes or soft demands, but I do my darnedest to understand the context for why this most likely happened and try not to hold that against most developers. Any of us can say how it should have been—the goal, I think, is compromise and get resources into the right areas to diversify the market and regain that sense of deviancy the boom days had.

 

[Crocodile]

We can agree on that. I feel that people are harping too much on the latter and refuse to acknowledge the former. The points being raised in the article can be applied just as well to several mainstream games with not so blatant goals. Don't you agree?

Case in point:

I'm not sure what there is to be garnered from that rant. They mention one game where "fanservice" is actually context appropriate (ridiculous outfits seem logical in a game where idol culture, musical performances and the music industry are significant themes of the game) and another clearly niche Vita game nobody has heard about (except them oddly enough) to decree that its an infection spreading to all JRPGs whilst taking the time to directly insult anybody who might enjoy some of those elements in some of those games. Like that person is clearly more interested in venting than having some sort of conversation.

 

[viveks86]

Well it's hard to be surprised that people are focusing on the latter when there are only two paragraphs actually about a broader analysis of gaming in a ~14 paragraph article, the rest of which are about the latter. The Mass Effect mention amounts to lip service because there was no meaningful analysis to discuss and it is the subject of solely the caption and one sentence in the entire article.

I keep seeing your avatar out of the corner of my eye and thinking it's one of the Ico/Colossus shadows out to get me. More on point, yes, Parish's article technically combines a lamentation about the absence of "sophisticated" approaches to sex with a critique of girlie games, but the former is framed in terms of the latter, and I think his inclusion of the latter is at best an underdeveloped strand of the essay and at worst a disingenuous prop when his real intent is to blast the former. (Which is fine, but poorly chosen in an article about being forthright about a topic rather than dealing in suggestion and innuendo.

*Looks at avatar through corner of eye*

Lol

I mostly agree with what you are saying. I guess I'm less interested in judging the author's output and intent as I am about discussing the underpinning issues being raised. Omega Labyrinth is of no interest to me, but it represents a serious issue that plagues all kinds of games in all kinds of genres. The article does bring that up, albeit in a poorly chosen format with a poorly chosen game. Wish we would get past that

 

[Verger]

Again I'll ask, who are buying the games?

Making a game for a market that doesn't exist is well, on you, if you have your own money to spend, because no one is going to fund you.

And it's not just the writing. If you're going to do a "choice" "reaction" system, well, that's a monumental engineering/coding/scripting effort right there to account for different peoples play styles. Basically you're looking at extra hundreds of thousands or millions.

But then again, that's why "Indie" games are super low budget 8/16-bit fares.

 

[potatohead]

This article is overly sensational and skirts the big issue: Japanese developers being forced to pander because of market conditions, not because they sincerely want to make a sexy experience, or fanservice, or something entirely antithetical. Industries outside Japan (like in the U.S. or Korea) definitely have to face pressures analogous in concept, yet we don't suffer from the Japanese industry's set of circumstances in the same way or at the same degree.

I like that take, that sounds very interesting and relevant!

 

[Verger]

Exactly. I'll repeat, the Japanese economy is in the shitter. No one there buys games really anymore aside from the "family friendly" stuff, and well, the rest is just those Otaku Whales.

So of course game developers there are being shoehorned into making either Mobile games or Niche games. But both overlap in a way when it comes to "fanservice"

 

[YianGaruga]

To the people complaining about the lack of other JRPGs

Final Fantasy XV
Final Fantasy VIIR
Dragon Quest XI
Legend of Legacy
Stella Glow
Exist Archive
Trails in the Sky SC
Trails of Cold Steel
Persona 5
Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth
Kingdom Hearts III
Star Ocean
Tales of Zestiria
Summon Night 5
Etrian Odyssey
Shin Megami Tensei spinoffs
Lost Dimension
Xenoblade X

(not including some other Japan exclusive stuff)


how many "tasteful" RPGs do there have to be to allow a few super low budget ecchi dungeon crawlers to exist that no one would play without those elements anyway
And shouldn't we encourage some of the games in that list to have more meaningful content instead of condemning the ecchi games that were never intended to be anything more?

Wouldn't that make everyone happy without turning this into a us vs them situation? No one here is asking for more games to have tits and ass in them, but for some reason the other side thinks it's fine to demand that there be less.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

And it's not just the writing. If you're going to do a "choice" "reaction" system, well, that's a monumental engineering/coding/scripting effort right there to account for different peoples play styles. Basically you're looking at extra hundreds of thousands or millions.

I'm sorry but what's a ""choice" "reaction" system"?

 

[Dark_castle]

I think i'll stay in my comfort zone free of sexulized images of children

Be cautious of Xenoblade Chronicles X

 

[Verger]

I'm sorry but what's a ""choice" "reaction" system"?

Ah sorry. That was me kinda rambling a response to this response:

The stigma of "linear" game being bad is already a problematic in itself. Does a game with a lot of events that triggered by different criteria considered as linear? Romance is not a something that you could easily get in and get out. There are a lot of numerous emotional factor that involved. The notion that linearity is what make romance game couldn't work is a problem in itself. Most people who play game don't like to be put into situation which their agency are taken, then must pick a choice of from limited set of option. Which is just real life, and people don't like being reminded of that somehow in their video game despite the industry keep chasing visual fidelity.

That being said, good romance game is abound to be a 'linear' experience. What makes it difference is reactivity. This game needs to provide a numerous of action to take, different event and situation that could happened. But this is very ambitious and need a fucktons of writing effort to do, a something that the video game industry in general pretty lacking.

Needless to say, it's a lot of work if you want to go that route and not stick with linear straight up storytelling.

 

[Game Guru]

Who said it needs to try and be a movie? This is the most overused strawman argument I see around this topic. NOBODY wants games be like movies. There is already a medium for that. It's called movies.

But movies are the closest comparison we can make since it is a visual medium that involves storytelling as well. It's difficult to have a conversation about improving something if we aren't allowed to mention other similar things that we can learn from.

Also, movies learnt a LOT from theater, because theater predated movies. Games can learn a lot from movies and theater for the very same reason. Let's not mix up inspiration, evolution and expansion with imitation.

Film is not the only visual medium. Comics are also a visual medium and were probably more applicable to using as a basis for a video game than film prior to 3D and sound being common and likely still is applicable for indie video games. Video games could also use television as a comparison which itself is a different, though similar medium, to film. Hell, video games could even use theater as a comparison especially since theaters have had audience participation for some plays which means there is an interactive element possible in theater that film doesn't have.

Film learnt a lot from theater, but they also expanded beyond what theater could do as a medium. Video games have four different visual mediums that could be used as inspiration to draw from, but invariably draws from one of them.

 

[xir]

funny, I love DQVIII but now stuff like Jessica's puff puff skills make me wonder

 

[Tohsaka]

Be cautious of Xenoblade Chronicles X

Yeah, that completely optional piece of armor that can be equipped on any female character regardless of body type is incredibly "problematic."

 

[potatohead]

To the people complaining about the lack of other JRPGs

Final Fantasy XV
Final Fantasy VIIR
Dragon Quest XI
Legend of Legacy
Stella Glow
Exist Archive
Trails in the Sky SC
Trails of Cold Steel
Persona 5
Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth
Kingdom Hearts III
Star Ocean
Tales of Zestiria
Summon Night 5

(not including some other Japan exclusive stuff)


how many "tasteful" RPGs do there have to be to allow a few super low budget ecchi dungeon crawlers to exist that no one would play without those elements anyway
And shouldn't we encourage some of the games in that list to have more meaningful content instead of condemning the ecchi games that were never intended to be anything more?

Wouldn't that make everyone happy without turning this into a us vs them situation? No one here is asking for more games have tits and ass in them, but for some reason the other side thinks it's fine to demand that there be less.

They aren't out yet!

But I'm looking forward to them, good to be a JRPG fan at this moment

And I agree with you. I think when many of these games release, this issue will be less relevant to many of our more Western or international palates

 

[Conkerkid11]

Giving this clickbait article more attention, awesome.

Ignore the shirtless guy.

 

[YianGaruga]

They aren't out yet!

Omega Labyrinth isn't out either!

Spoiler

sadly

 

[Steel]

They aren't out yet!

But I'm looking forward to them, good to be a JRPG fan at this moment

And I agree with you. I think when many of these games release, this issue will be less relevant to many of our more Western or international palates

You could always pick up something like Lost Dimension in the meantime(A val chron knock-off in terms of gameplay).

 

[bon]

To the people complaining about the lack of other JRPGs

Final Fantasy XV
Final Fantasy VIIR
Dragon Quest XI
Legend of Legacy
Stella Glow
Exist Archive
Trails in the Sky SC
Trails of Cold Steel
Persona 5
Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth
Kingdom Hearts III
Star Ocean
Tales of Zestiria
Summon Night 5

(not including some other Japan exclusive stuff)


how many "tasteful" RPGs do there have to be to allow a few super low budget ecchi dungeon crawlers to exist that no one would play without those elements anyway
And shouldn't we encourage some of the games in that list to have more meaningful content instead of condemning the ecchi games that were never intended to be anything more?

Wouldn't that make everyone happy without turning this into a us vs them situation? No one here is asking for more games have tits and ass in them, but for some reason the other side thinks it's fine to demand that there be less.

Don't forget Etrian Mystery Dungeon, a very good recent roguelike.

Shiren 5 just got ported to Vita, too. I'd love it if someone would localize that.

 

[Dark_castle]

Yeah, that completely optional piece of armor that can be equipped on any female character regardless of body type is incredibly "problematic."

Just because it's optional doesn't mean it's not there.

 

[RM8]

Yeah, the list of upcoming games doesn't seem terrible. But I'll celebrate when DQXI is confirmed for the West. Bleh, I hate that I can't put Fire Emblem in that list now that it's so fanservice-ish

 

[OceanBlue]

Don't forget Etrian Mystery Dungeon, a very good recent roguelike.

Shiren 5 just got ported to Vita, too. I'd love it if someone would localize that.

Etrian Odyssey 2 Untold just came out too! I assumed that he was intentionally leaving out the EO games to be honest.

 

[Tohsaka]

Giving this clickbait article more attention, awesome.


Ignore the shirtless guy.

But that doesn't count because <reasons>.

You could always pick up something like Lost Dimension in the meantime(A val chron knock-off in terms of gameplay).

That game was actually pretty decent. I need to do a second playthrough at some point to get the true ending, but I'm preoccupied with Dungeon Travelers 2 at the moment (coincidentally also published by Atlus USA).

Just because it's optional doesn't mean it's not there.

It's there because literally any female body type can wear it (including player-created characters with F-cups), regardless of perceived "age" by the end-user.

 

[YianGaruga]

Don't forget Etrian Mystery Dungeon, a very good recent roguelike.

Shiren 5 just got ported to Vita, too. I'd love it if someone would localize that.

I'd love Shiren 5 but I don't think it'll happen :/

Yeah, the list of upcoming games doesn't seem terrible. But I'll celebrate when DQXI is confirmed for the West. Bleh, I hate that I can't put Fire Emblem in that list now that it's so fanservice-ish

I thought about adding FE to the list because I still think it deserves to be on there but I know people might disagree!

 

[michaelius]

Reading that old thread about his other article on the same subject, not the first time he does the pedo comparison :

So much for I'm not asking for censorship line of defence this article has.

 

[Nightbird]

Yeah, that completely optional piece of armor that can be equipped on any female character regardless of body type is incredibly "problematic."

Sshh, you are not supposed to say this!
Everybody has to think that Chronicles X is a Game for Pedophiles, just like any other Japanese Game! :$

 

[Deleted member 126221]

Ignore the shirtless guy.

Hypersexualisation of big hairy guys is so widespread in games, it's crazy!

So much for I'm not asking for censorship line of defence this article has.

Please point out the call for censorship to me, because I don't see it.

 

[viveks86]

Film is not the only visual medium. Comics are also a visual medium and were probably more applicable to using as a basis for a video game than film prior to 3D and sound being common and likely still is applicable for indie video games. Video games could also use television as a comparison which itself is a different, though similar medium, to film. Hell, video games could even use theater as a comparison especially since theaters have had audience participation for some plays which means there is an interactive element possible in theater that film doesn't have.

Film learnt a lot from theater, but they also expanded beyond what theater could do as a medium. Video games have four different visual mediums that could be used as inspiration to draw from, but invariably draws from one of them.

Agreed

 

[Verger]

I dislike that costume in Xenoblade. But it's not going to stop me from buying the game, I just will Choose not to wear it and won't lose sleep over people who do.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Good thing the west is getting the 'adjusted' version of DOAX... If they're even getting it at all.

 

[RM8]

I thought about adding FE to the list because I still think it deserves to be on there but I know people might disagree!

I like plenty of RPGs, but I'm only a fan of one series - Fire Emblem (edit - okay, also Pokémon and Dragon Quest Monsters). And as a veteran fan, no, I can't group it with the tasteful games anymore. IMO of course! And in the end I'm still buying both versions.

Hypersexualisation of big hairy guys is so widespread in games, it's crazy!

Lol, yup. That's reaching.

Good thing the west is getting the 'adjusted' version of DOAX... If they're even getting it at all.

What are they adjusting?

 

[raven777]

Good thing the west is getting the 'adjusted' version of DOAX... If they're even getting it at all.

yea...and people wondered why West wasn't getting it lol.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

yea...and people wondered why West wasn't getting it lol.

It's because of Jeremy Parish's editorial?

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

What are they adjusting?

Absolutely no idea.

All they said is that if the west is going to get it, it would be an 'adjusted' version.

yea...and people wondered why West wasn't getting it lol.

It's because of Jeremy Parish's editorial?

Probably not specifically him.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

There absolutely should be more games that handle sexuality in other ways, but that article is one of the worst ways to approach the subject. You won't get my support by trying to shame me for what I like

Why do you feel shamed by this article, exactly?

and shitting on things that aren't made for you (and you seemingly don't even understand)

And what does he "not understand"?

To the people complaining about the lack of other JRPGs

Final Fantasy XV
Final Fantasy VIIR
Dragon Quest XI
Legend of Legacy
Stella Glow
Exist Archive
Trails in the Sky SC
Trails of Cold Steel
Persona 5
Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth
Kingdom Hearts III
Star Ocean
Tales of Zestiria
Summon Night 5
Etrian Odyssey
Shin Megami Tensei spinoffs
Lost Dimension
Xenoblade X

Ahem:

Be cautious of Xenoblade Chronicles X

Also, googling a bunch of those games show that while they're not nearly on the same level of tackiness as Omega Labyrinth, many of them still contain gratuitously sexualized girls (I'm honestly more annoyed by that, than the existence of the pervy niche Vita games, myself -- I used to enjoy JRPGs but now they're plagued with that crap). I mean you're using this game as an example? Who are you trying to fool? lol

 

[YianGaruga]

And what does he "not understand"?

He's saying people are making these games because they can't make porn on consoles. That's not true. Most people that actually buy these games are aware that they have silly sexuality. He's taking these games way more seriously than the target audience. Omega Labyrinth is so over the top that it's more funny than "sexy".

If you want porn (games) there are enough other options.

Also, googling a bunch of those games show that while they're not nearly on the same level of tackiness as Omega Labyrinth, many of them still contain gratuitously sexualized girls (I'm honestly more annoyed by that, than the existence of the pervy niche Vita games, myself -- I used to enjoy JRPGs but now they're plagued with that crap). I mean you're using this game as an example? Who are you trying to fool? lol

I'm not trying to fool anyone. But if your tolerance is so low that single "sexualized" character (or even optional outfit) is turning you off from games.. I'm not sure what to say. Even if you remove those two titles the list is big enough.

The article was discussing games on a whole different level, so I really don't think Xenoblade X and Stella Glow are what he was talking about.

Why do you feel shamed by this article, exactly?

I'm all for having a discussion, but this is not the way to do it. He's insulting and labelling the people he should be talking to. If the article is only intended for people who already share his opinion he's basically screaming into an echo chamber.

 

[charlequin]

Since you agree can you explain what his point is? Because I read it and I still don't understand what he's overall point is with this article.

I never quite get articles like this.

They say games like Senran Kagura existing is okay, but then they say they aren't okay with it existing.

I kinda just rolled my eyes at this article. I love Retronauts, but I really feel like Parish just doesn't know what he wants from games anymore.

I see this opinion a lot, usually reading between the lines, and I can't for the life of me understand it.

I don't really find it all that plausible that any of you actually have any confusion about the point being made in this original post, it's pretty straightforward:

• There's an increasing number of games falling somewhere in the range between crass but harmless juvenilia and vile exploitation garbage.
• As some markets contract, they start putting more and more mandatory pandering into every title regardless of whether it has anything to do with the underlying game.
• At the same time, almost nothing else outside of ultra-obscure independent games does anything more advanced or sophisticated with sexuality.
• What that leaves us with: a hobby where there's increasingly lacking options to play many types of games without juvenile sexual nonsense attached, and almost none with any kind of adult conception (hyuk) of sexuality.
• So it would be better if games that were about sex had more room to go as far as they wanted, both in crass and mature ways, while games that aren't about sex could have less call to shoehorn juvenile stuff in.

It's not a super outlandish position. Most of it shouldn't even be controversial. I don't think there are a lot of people who could make a plausible-sounding case for why it's a good thing that every dungeon crawler these days has to be themed around embarrassing pervert stuff, or why it's better if niche games that historically have been smut-free have to contort themselves to squeeze it in.

But there should also be some silly dumb fun, and yes slightly pervy stuff like Senran Kagura and Onechanhoweverthefuckyouspellit zombie hack n slash.

Basically, there's a difference -- and we see this in things like game ratings and advertising, and it's reflected in NeoGAF moderation policy -- between two types of games that get conflated in these discussions. One one side we have something like Oneechanbara, which is immature but knowingly so, and oriented around a crass concept of what is still adult sexuality. And then on the other side we have games where players touch the body parts of children and justify it with thin, embarrassing storyline excuses.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

He's saying people are making these games because they can't make porn on consoles. That's not true. Most people that actually buy these games are aware that they have silly sexuality. He's taking these games way more seriously than the target audience. Omega Labyrinth is so over the top that it's more funny than "sexy".

OK

I'm not trying to fool anyone. But if your tolerance is so low that single "sexualized" character

Why the scare quotes against sexualized?
Also, they're rarely a single character, and you know it. And yes, I'm annoyed by the constant sexualization of girls and women in so many games, especially when there's no story justification for it. It's a frankly incredibly annoying trend. But that's getting off-topic I guess.

[pic]
I'm all for having a discussion, but this is not the way to do it. He's insulting and labelling the people he should be talking to. If the article is only intended for people who already share his opinion he's basically screaming into an echo chamber.

Uh, this pic is dated September, presumably from last year or even before that. So I don't know what he's referring to and can't comment if the snarky comments are justified or not, but it's definitely not referring to the article he just wrote.

 

[kevm3]

Let's judge the game industry by some weird niche title as if the film industry doesn't have the same.

 

[MagnesD3]

I don't think the artform should be restricted by censorship. I think the artist should be allowed to put their vision on the market without it being watered down for societies sake.

Regardless of the writer of this articles personal agenda.

 

[YianGaruga]

OK
Uh, this pic is dated September, presumably from last year or even before that. So I don't know what he's referring to and can't comment if the snarky comments are justified or not, but it's definitely not referring to the article he just wrote.

The first pic is from today and the other one is related to the same topic even though it is older. There is context for it in this thread.

They are definitely related to this topic and tell me that he's not interested in having any kind of discussion but just wants to condemn the games and generalize the people that play them.

I like to play these games for various reasons and I consider myself a rational person who is able to discuss the topic but his twitter posts and stuff like this

vile exploitation garbage.
mandatory pandering
juvenile sexual nonsense

from this thread just makes it more likely that I'll go back to the insular communities where people don't judge others so quickly instead.