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Laughing Banana · Sep 21, 2015

So many people gets salty when a Muslim gets rewarded/offered with good stuff. I mean you're just fooling yourself if the kid would get the same vitriol and distrust thrown at him if his name is not Ahmed + is not a Muslim.

Frog-fu · Sep 21, 2015

smh at these people finding all kinds of reasons to smear the boy and ignore the actual issue that got him in trouble, which is profiling.

Nobody has claimed this kid is the next Elon Musk or a real life Tony Stark in the making.

He's just a kid that loves to tinker with technology and got in trouble solely because of his name and the colour of his skin.

That some are being a tad zealous in assessing his talents isn't anything worth getting heated over. This is a kid whose mistreatment is now being used as a rallying point against the mistreatment and profiling of minorities and the promoting of interest in technology amongst young people.

How is this not a win for everybody that isn't a bigot?

faridmon · Sep 21, 2015

Holy shit at the comments at the Guardian website. I though people with common sense and respect for all kinds commented there....

Stupid me for thinking this world is better than it actually is.

ThankYouDaletech · Sep 21, 2015

If anything, Ahmed being a goofy lying knucklehead makes the administration taking an L even funnier.

I hope he starts a Youtube channel showcasing more inventions.

"Hey this is Ahmed, I invented a small computer than runs Android and then I designed and 3D printed a case for it *shows off his free Raspberry Pi and a case he downloaded from Thingiverse* peace out, dorks."

The Beard · Sep 21, 2015

EviLore said:
Twitter is a terrible medium for discussing nuanced issues.

Sourcing this video interview for example: https://youtu.be/3mW4w0Y1OXE

-Ahmed did not "invent" the clock as he has claimed. He took the clock's case off and put it into a small metal box from Target. He says he put a cable around the case to secure it so that it *wouldn't* look suspicious, but the case has a normal clasp.

-Ahmed has subsequently lied about every other one of his supposed inventions. He claimed to have "invented" a usb hub, which has now been widely reported, but in fact it's just an existing usb hub he took the case off of.

-He demonstrates some sort of invention briefly and highlights a transformer et al (the bundle of wires and whatnot), but that is confirmed to just be a karaoke machine taken out of its case and put into a big pile.

-He also later claimed to have invented bluetooth speakers, but says he doesn't have them anymore. And "an invention that harnesses power by using neodymium magnets."

Every one of his claimed inventions is fraudulent.

His initial motivations regarding bringing the clock to school? Unknown. Could have just been showing off to try to get cool points. It's clear that at no point did the school administration take the metal box as a legitimate bomb threat, though, since no precautions were taken and a bomb squad wasn't called in and an evacuation didn't take place. Rather it was immediately taken as an attempt at a bomb *hoax*, which is why he was arrested. Now, the arrest itself seems to be overboard/illegal and the validity of the accusations (whether he did anything to insinuate it was an actual bomb) are all in question, and potentially the result of racial profiling.

Fact remains, though, that the kid is caught up in a string of lies and is going all the way with it. It's good that we can leverage this case into broader societal concerns, but Ahmed shouldn't be propped up as a prodigy inventor in any way, and his personal statements have zero credibility.

Got eem. The jig is up Ahmed.

commedieu · Sep 21, 2015

Dude... stick to evolution n stuff..

Maninthemirror · Sep 21, 2015

EviLore said:
Twitter is a terrible medium for discussing nuanced issues.

Sourcing this video interview for example: https://youtu.be/3mW4w0Y1OXE

-Ahmed did not "invent" the clock as he has claimed. He took the clock's case off and put it into a small metal box from Target. He says he put a cable around the case to secure it so that it *wouldn't* look suspicious, but the case has a normal clasp.

-Ahmed has subsequently lied about every other one of his supposed inventions. He claimed to have "invented" a usb hub, which has now been widely reported, but in fact it's just an existing usb hub he took the case off of.

-He demonstrates some sort of invention briefly and highlights a transformer et al (the bundle of wires and whatnot), but that is confirmed to just be a karaoke machine taken out of its case and put into a big pile.

-He also later claimed to have invented bluetooth speakers, but says he doesn't have them anymore. And "an invention that harnesses power by using neodymium magnets."

Every one of his claimed inventions is fraudulent.

His initial motivations regarding bringing the clock to school? Unknown. Could have just been showing off to try to get cool points. It's clear that at no point did the school administration take the metal box as a legitimate bomb threat, though, since no precautions were taken and a bomb squad wasn't called in and an evacuation didn't take place. Rather it was immediately taken as an attempt at a bomb *hoax*, which is why he was arrested. Now, the arrest itself seems to be overboard/illegal and the validity of the accusations (whether he did anything to insinuate it was an actual bomb) are all in question, and potentially the result of racial profiling.

Fact remains, though, that the kid is caught up in a string of lies and is going all the way with it. It's good that we can leverage this case into broader societal concerns, but Ahmed shouldn't be propped up as a prodigy inventor in any way, and his personal statements have zero credibility.

No one of those in the scientific or Obama or Zuckerberg like community is propping him as a prodigy inventor, they are propping him up as someone who is interested in science and engineering, even Cuban who called him
And was with Maher called him said on the questions of science he was knowledgable plus the fact that he was in his schools robotics club etc. the propping up is to set an example that no one should profiled and be a victim of prejudice for being interested in science. The statement in the above text is a more subtle dig at the kid than the Shortened statements that Dawkins made, nothing more nothing less.

His initiatial motivation for bringing the clock to school is unknown ? What are you trying to reach for ?

Terra Firma · Sep 21, 2015

EviLore said:
Twitter is a terrible medium for discussing nuanced issues.

Sourcing this video interview for example: https://youtu.be/3mW4w0Y1OXE

-Ahmed did not "invent" the clock as he has claimed. He took the clock's case off and put it into a small metal box from Target. He says he put a cable around the case to secure it so that it *wouldn't* look suspicious, but the case has a normal clasp.

-Ahmed has subsequently lied about every other one of his supposed inventions. He claimed to have "invented" a usb hub, which has now been widely reported, but in fact it's just an existing usb hub he took the case off of.

-He demonstrates some sort of invention briefly and highlights a transformer et al (the bundle of wires and whatnot), but that is confirmed to just be a karaoke machine taken out of its case and put into a big pile.

-He also later claimed to have invented bluetooth speakers, but says he doesn't have them anymore. And "an invention that harnesses power by using neodymium magnets."

Every one of his claimed inventions is fraudulent.

His initial motivations regarding bringing the clock to school? Unknown. Could have just been showing off to try to get cool points. It's clear that at no point did the school administration take the metal box as a legitimate bomb threat, though, since no precautions were taken and a bomb squad wasn't called in and an evacuation didn't take place. Rather it was immediately taken as an attempt at a bomb *hoax*, which is why he was arrested. Now, the arrest itself seems to be overboard/illegal and the validity of the accusations (whether he did anything to insinuate it was an actual bomb) are all in question, and potentially the result of racial profiling.

Fact remains, though, that the kid is caught up in a string of lies and is going all the way with it. It's good that we can leverage this case into broader societal concerns, but Ahmed shouldn't be propped up as a prodigy inventor in any way, and his personal statements have zero credibility.

Most people aren't saying he's some sort of prodigy. No one is praising his clock. No one is praising his invention. Everyone is praising his curiosity and trying to make him feel good about discovering and tinkering rather than feel ashamed because of his school and the police for something that should be encouraged.

You also quoted from the video that he has something that uses neodymium magnets and then go on to say that "every one of his claimed inventions is fraudulent" without even knowing what exactly his neodymium magnet project was.

A bomb hoax involves someone claiming that something is a bomb when in actuality, it isn't. If Ahmed was deliberately saying that the clock was anything but a clock, then sure you might have a point, but from what we know, he didn't say anything beside the fact that he had a clock and not a bomb.

And lastly, he is a 14 year old kid with a knack for tinkering. So what if he didn't invent a clock or a USB hub? The whole point of the response he is getting is so that he is encouraged to continue exploring and to foster his curiosity.

ColtraineGF · Sep 21, 2015

Whether he built it together out of parts from Radio Shack, or was just frontin' with some dollar store clock, the main crux of the story is the fact that he was accused of and arrested for building a bomb (and then, a hoax about building a bomb) because he was brown and had a Muslim name.

I could not care less about the source of the clock. He didn't have a massive outpouring of sympathy from the tech community, NASA people, and the President for putting some circuit boards into a box and calling it new. The experience he went through would have out anyone off ever trying to be creative or tinker with electronics ever again, because of instantly being labeled a terrorist.

Things like this happen all over under different circumstances and situations, all centered around "you can't do this because you're X". He just happened to win the social media lottery this time around. It literally affects no one to say "Keep on being curious, don't let these racist Islamophobes stop you", and these attempts to micromanage every one of these stories to prove that "this person doesn't deserve to be in this moment because reason" is just sad. It just smacks of jealousy, really. That and something else, in some cases.

Rushersauce · Sep 21, 2015

effingvic said:
Is this sarcasm? Actually we can find out easily.

On a scale of 1 to 10, how mad are you now?

Not mad, but jelly.

commedieu · Sep 21, 2015

His father said he fixed his car. And some of the wiring in the house, and built a go kart. He wore a nasa shirt. Thats all anyone went with saw the actual issue, the racism. And helped him out as ahmed is a fucking nerd. Not the worlds smartest man. Hes a kid that got a raw deal at school because of bigotry.. Oh my god. Only in america can we say "yeah but hes not any good!" And still have days of people trying to pretend they aren't uniquely critical of ahmed.

Now? We are here? As if the kid is on trial for being an inventor? It was a media blip. As far as bigotry, and the support. It could have just ended. No ones life is affected by this. Literally. Kids go to the wh all the time.

There is no issue here besides disdain for ahmed. Whatver your reasons are.

Americans dont even vet their politicians like this, thats the saddest fucking part. And they actually lie about things that literally affect lives.

But I want everyone to read this thread very well. This is what we are up against in america.

pgtl_10 · Sep 21, 2015

Who's Thunderf00t and what did he say?

nib95 · Sep 21, 2015

Maninthemirror said:
His initiatial motivation for bringing the clock to school is unknown ? What are you trying to reach for ?

I believe he himself said he brought it in to impress his classmates and teachers. There is no reason to randomly assume he was lying or instead had malicious intent. Such an assumption has no basis, especially given his tech enthusiasm background, that he is part of the school robotics club, and the fact that he has already tinkered with other such creations.

ColtraineGF · Sep 21, 2015

No lie, I was looking at that Surface Pro 3 earlier and being like "Man, if only."

Funny thing is, I can also appreciate his moment and move on with my day instead of making several entries on my personal blog about how my custom made Arduino network-enabled DSLR only got so many page views on Hackaday, or how my FOSS distributed forum software written in Typescript running on Docker got like 2 comments on Hacker News instead of a retweet from Joe Biden.

faridmon · Sep 21, 2015

I honestly disagree with the entire Evilore post. The use of ''invention'' is way overblown. Why focus on that? He is 14 for crying out loud. He probably says hate when he means dislike and says Awful when he means average (or even decent). The point is, he exaggerates and probably does that all the time, why hold account on simple word like that and blow it up to be an origin of a fraud (or whatever)?

Also the fact that he lied about things does not make him a criminal. Evilre might separate the two things, but at the end of the day, its his ''inventions'' is what led to his arrest and the two becomes inseparable.

People can look for any doubts the boy might have engineered, at the end of the day its their opinion (although that opinion should tell you alot about said person) but holding him account on his ''lies'' when majority of us did that, online or otherwise, is just silly and seem desperate way to create an invalidation of Ahmeds story.

Maninthemirror · Sep 21, 2015

faridmon said:
I honestly disagree with the entire Evilore post. The use of ''invention'' is way overblown. Why focus on that? He is 14 for crying out loud. He probably says hate when he means dislike and says Awful when he means average (or even decent). The point is, he exaggerates and probably does that all the time, why hold account on simple word like that and blow it up to be an origin of a fraud (or whatever)?

Also the fact that he lied about things does not make him a criminal. Evilre might separate the two things, but at the end of the day, its his ''inventions'' is what led to his arrest and the two becomes inseparable.

People can look for any doubts the boy might have engineered, at the end of the day its their opinion (although that opinion should tell you alot about said person) but holding him account on his ''lies'' when majority of us did that, online or otherwise, is just silly and seem desperate way to create an invalidation of Ahmeds story.

People need to not downplay the other facets of the entire situation and focusing on word semantics and building a case from those semantics. It often leads to illogical conclusions

efyu_lemonardo · Sep 21, 2015

this story is a really interesting case to dissect, it's basically a series of exaggerations and overreactions snowballing out of proportion with each new twist

metalslimer · Sep 21, 2015

His motivation for bringing the clock is unknown? What the fuck....

He said he wanted to impress his teacher. Him exaggerating about how much effort went into the clock would prove that even more. What other reason would he even have brought the clock for. Jesus...

Laughing Banana · Sep 21, 2015

I can't believe some people are using the "Giving him stuff won't solve the issue" excuse to mask their "criticism" of Ahmed.

LOL. How much of a pathetic, petty little person you are to act like this? Unbelievable.

KingGondo · Sep 21, 2015

Maninthemirror said:
His initiatial motivation for bringing the clock to school is unknown ? What are you trying to reach for ?

Yeah, I'd like to hear Evilore clarify this as well.

commedieu · Sep 21, 2015

faridmon said:
I honestly disagree with the entire Evilore post. The use of ''invention'' is way overblown. Why focus on that? He is 14 for crying out loud. He probably says hate when he means dislike and says Awful when he means average (or even decent). The point is, he exaggerates and probably does that all the time, why hold account on simple word like that and blow it up to be an origin of a fraud (or whatever)?

Also the fact that he lied about things does not make him a criminal. Evilre might separate the two things, but at the end of the day, its his ''inventions'' is what led to his arrest and the two becomes inseparable.

People can look for any doubts the boy might have engineered, at the end of the day its their opinion (although that opinion should tell you alot about said person) but holding him account on his ''lies'' when majority of us did that, online or otherwise, is just silly and seem desperate way to create an invalidation of Ahmeds story.

Cosign.

He isnt making official testimony that elon musk read first. It was the fact that a nerdy kid, got their rights trampled on. Nerds stick together. The only people looking to shit on him, are looking to shit on him. If only we were debating about the racial issues in this country as much as the recreations of a kids clock.

Brace for impact. Its been a pleasure.

As much as I like dawkins. Its an embarrassment. The issue is the racism, and thats what the diverse wealty and scientific community reaponded to.

To not be discouraged.

victreeb3l · Sep 21, 2015

EviLore said:
Twitter is a terrible medium for discussing nuanced issues.

Sourcing this video interview for example: https://youtu.be/3mW4w0Y1OXE

-Ahmed did not "invent" the clock as he has claimed. He took the clock's case off and put it into a small metal box from Target. He says he put a cable around the case to secure it so that it *wouldn't* look suspicious, but the case has a normal clasp.

-Ahmed has subsequently lied about every other one of his supposed inventions. He claimed to have "invented" a usb hub, which has now been widely reported, but in fact it's just an existing usb hub he took the case off of.

-He demonstrates some sort of invention briefly and highlights a transformer et al (the bundle of wires and whatnot), but that is confirmed to just be a karaoke machine taken out of its case and put into a big pile.

-He also later claimed to have invented bluetooth speakers, but says he doesn't have them anymore. And "an invention that harnesses power by using neodymium magnets."

Every one of his claimed inventions is fraudulent.

His initial motivations regarding bringing the clock to school? Unknown. Could have just been showing off to try to get cool points. It's clear that at no point did the school administration take the metal box as a legitimate bomb threat, though, since no precautions were taken and a bomb squad wasn't called in and an evacuation didn't take place. Rather it was immediately taken as an attempt at a bomb *hoax*, which is why he was arrested. Now, the arrest itself seems to be overboard/illegal and the validity of the accusations (whether he did anything to insinuate it was an actual bomb) are all in question, and potentially the result of racial profiling.

Fact remains, though, that the kid is caught up in a string of lies and is going all the way with it. It's good that we can leverage this case into broader societal concerns, but Ahmed shouldn't be propped up as a prodigy inventor in any way, and his personal statements have zero credibility.

Kid says invent and then make in the video. I wouldn't put it past an awkward 14 year old kid to interchangeably use those words. He could barely put together a proper sentence in that video.

At the end of the day it doesn't changed the fact he was profiled and wrongfully arrested and suspended from school.

harSon · Sep 21, 2015

EviLore said:
Twitter is a terrible medium for discussing nuanced issues.

Sourcing this video interview for example: https://youtu.be/3mW4w0Y1OXE

-Ahmed did not "invent" the clock as he has claimed. He took the clock's case off and put it into a small metal box from Target. He says he put a cable around the case to secure it so that it *wouldn't* look suspicious, but the case has a normal clasp.

-Ahmed has subsequently lied about every other one of his supposed inventions. He claimed to have "invented" a usb hub, which has now been widely reported, but in fact it's just an existing usb hub he took the case off of.

-He demonstrates some sort of invention briefly and highlights a transformer et al (the bundle of wires and whatnot), but that is confirmed to just be a karaoke machine taken out of its case and put into a big pile.

-He also later claimed to have invented bluetooth speakers, but says he doesn't have them anymore. And "an invention that harnesses power by using neodymium magnets."

Every one of his claimed inventions is fraudulent.

His initial motivations regarding bringing the clock to school? Unknown. Could have just been showing off to try to get cool points. It's clear that at no point did the school administration take the metal box as a legitimate bomb threat, though, since no precautions were taken and a bomb squad wasn't called in and an evacuation didn't take place. Rather it was immediately taken as an attempt at a bomb *hoax*, which is why he was arrested. Now, the arrest itself seems to be overboard/illegal and the validity of the accusations (whether he did anything to insinuate it was an actual bomb) are all in question, and potentially the result of racial profiling.

Fact remains, though, that the kid is caught up in a string of lies and is going all the way with it. It's good that we can leverage this case into broader societal concerns, but Ahmed shouldn't be propped up as a prodigy inventor in any way, and his personal statements have zero credibility.

And? The fact remains that nobody, let alone a 14 year old, should have to experience what he experienced due to his ethnic makeup. Him receiving an outpouring of support and gifts shouldn't be tied to whether he's a fraudulent inventor or not. I'd like to think that people would do their best to renew the kid's faith in humanity. How would you feel if you were a 14 year old who was profiled, arrested based on that profiling and had locals, public officials and people around the United States giving their support for the bullshit that had just occurred?

metalslimer · Sep 21, 2015

commedieu said:
Cosign.

He isnt making official testimony that elon musk read first. It was the fact that a nerdy kid, got their rights trampled on. Nerds stick together. The only people looking to shit on him, are looking to shit on him. If only we were debating about the racial issues in this country as much as the recreations of a kids clock.

Brace for impact. Its been a pleasure.

Agreed it happens in all of these cases though. Issues of race are always sidestepped for some other issue and the problems are never addressed.

See: confederate flag debate

Gr1mLock · Sep 21, 2015

efyu_lemonardo said:
this story is a really interesting case to dissect, it's basically a series of exaggerations and overreactions snowballing out of proportion with each new twist

The internet is delivering.

KingGondo · Sep 21, 2015

STRING OF LIES: The Ahmed Story

Coming soon from Dinesh D'Souza

faridmon · Sep 21, 2015

Maninthemirror said:
People need to not downplay the other facets of the entire situation and focusing on word semantics and building a case from those semantics. It often leads to illogical conclusions

I am sorry, since English is not my first language, but what do you mean by this? Do you mean, ''We need to downplay facts of a situation by focusing on semantics'' or ''not to downplay semantics because it explains a situation''?

Massive Duck. C.M. · Sep 21, 2015

You can't invent things that have already been invented, pretty sure the kid realizes that.

These semantic arguments are just getting pathetic now.

rjinaz · Sep 21, 2015

The Beard said:
Got eem. The jig is up Ahmed.

Dude, really? We are talking about a 14 year old kid here, that, at worst case was passive aggressive and takes credit for things he shouldn't...

Unless you are implying he intended to cause a bomb scare?

commedieu · Sep 21, 2015

metalslimer said:
Agreed it happens in all of these cases though. Issues of race are always sidestepped for some other issue and the problems are never addressed.

See: confederate flag debate

Honestly. Its like a new light on people that I didnt think had these feelings. And they are passionate as hell about it. Ruined a date because of it. Its shocking that people dont even realize it. Its the institution in progress.

Its such a small issue!!!!!!! Yet??? This! Just goes to show, as ive said earlier. This is how it is.

Kick to the gut. I have to say.

Massive Duck said:
You can't invent things that have already been invented, pretty sure the kid realizes that.

These semantic arguments are just getting pathetic now.

The entire argument is pathetic once you start trying to discredit the victim. 100%

The Beard · Sep 21, 2015

nib95 said:
I believe he himself said he brought it in to impress his classmates and teachers. There is no reason to randomly assume he was lying or instead had malicious intent. Such an assumption has no basis, especially given his tech enthusiasm background, that he is part of the school robotics club, and the fact that he has already tinkered with other such creations.

In that linked YouTube video Ahmed says he wrapped the box with a cable so it'd look less suspicious. He didn't want to lock it because he didn't want it to look like a threat.

I told you guys it looked like a bomb. Even Ahmed is saying he knew it looked suspicious before he even brought it to school. I'm not sure why he'd even bring that to school? Was it for an assignment or extra credit? Were his teachers impressed with his rearranging of the clock parts?

I don't agree with how the school handled the situation. The school determined it wasn't a threat, and called the cops. Not sure how they determine if something is a hoax or not?

rjinaz said:
Dude, really? We are talking about a 14 year old kid here, that, at worst case was passive aggressive and takes credit for things he shouldn't...

Unless you are implying he intended to cause a bomb scare?

I was joking. I find it odd that people are digging up old "inventions" trying to expose him as a fraud. I'm not sure what that even proves.

Maninthemirror · Sep 21, 2015

faridmon said:
I am sorry, since English is not my first language, but what do you mean by this? Do you mean, ''We need to downplay facts of a situation by focusing on semantics'' or ''not to downplay semantics because it explains a situation''?

My English is not that good either. I meant people are looking at words and trying to decipher meaning to create a framework of what they think happened rather than see in the public eye what did happen. It's often done when trying to downplay someone or something or a situation like the white house inviting the kid you don't agree with

harSon · Sep 21, 2015

I'm just saying that it must suck, as a 14 year old, to have what happened to Ahmed - and then turn the TV on and see stuff like this: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...-brought-clock-to-school/ar-AAevFsE?li=AA54ur

injurai · Sep 21, 2015

EviLore said:
Twitter is a terrible medium for discussing nuanced issues.

Sourcing this video interview for example: https://youtu.be/3mW4w0Y1OXE

-Ahmed did not "invent" the clock as he has claimed. He took the clock's case off and put it into a small metal box from Target. He says he put a cable around the case to secure it so that it *wouldn't* look suspicious, but the case has a normal clasp.

-Ahmed has subsequently lied about every other one of his supposed inventions. He claimed to have "invented" a usb hub, which has now been widely reported, but in fact it's just an existing usb hub he took the case off of.

-He demonstrates some sort of invention briefly and highlights a transformer et al (the bundle of wires and whatnot), but that is confirmed to just be a karaoke machine taken out of its case and put into a big pile.

-He also later claimed to have invented bluetooth speakers, but says he doesn't have them anymore. And "an invention that harnesses power by using neodymium magnets."

Every one of his claimed inventions is fraudulent.

His initial motivations regarding bringing the clock to school? Unknown. Could have just been showing off to try to get cool points. It's clear that at no point did the school administration take the metal box as a legitimate bomb threat, though, since no precautions were taken and a bomb squad wasn't called in and an evacuation didn't take place. Rather it was immediately taken as an attempt at a bomb *hoax*, which is why he was arrested. Now, the arrest itself seems to be overboard/illegal and the validity of the accusations (whether he did anything to insinuate it was an actual bomb) are all in question, and potentially the result of racial profiling.

Fact remains, though, that the kid is caught up in a string of lies and is going all the way with it. It's good that we can leverage this case into broader societal concerns, but Ahmed shouldn't be propped up as a prodigy inventor in any way, and his personal statements have zero credibility.

I agree with some aspects of this, and notice this myself with his so called inventions. So I get Dawkins was trying to touch on some of this, but he didn't really ever say it concisely, and was making his points alongside other vast oversights.

However at the same time. Ahmed is an example of either, zero-tolerance gone mad or racial profiling. You choose. Either way both issues have been exposed.

In turn engineering and exploration are being promoted. A 14 year old kid is not a great target to vilify for an ultimate petty gripe. Especially when the whole ordeal took a turn to the positive. Ultimately the media is propagating the notions that he invented things, he's just keeping toe and being gracious for all the support. When I was a young kid I thought I was much more of a hot shot than I really was and I used to take things apart.

If you're going to tackle this at all from the angle that Dawkins did, already in bad taste for the above reasons. Then don't do it on twitter, and with half the facts. I think I like the Dawk still more than most people in here. But he needs to take a few L's and fix his act.

Is Richard Dawkins destroying his reputation?

It's weird because some of the beliefs people accuse Dawkins of secretly holding, he has explicit lectured against. He could totally have subconscious biases that play out on social media when he's not being careful. If he wants to be remembered fondly as a public educator and advocate for atheism he needs to check himself. I say peaceful atheism because that is what he has always argued for in practice. Holding ourselves more responsibly and finding morals and ethics outside of religious texts. But the tact and candor is breaking down.

metalslimer · Sep 21, 2015

harSon said:
I'm just saying that it must suck, as a 14 year old, to have what happened to Ahmed - and then turn the TV on and see stuff like this: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...-brought-clock-to-school/ar-AAevFsE?li=AA54ur

It doesn't matter though because he's a fraud. Why should I feel sympathy for a 14 year old fraud?

rjinaz · Sep 21, 2015

harSon said:
I'm just saying that it must suck, as a 14 year old, to have what happened to Ahmed - and then turn the TV on and see stuff like this: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...-brought-clock-to-school/ar-AAevFsE?li=AA54ur

I used to want Palin to be the Vice President and in part voted for McCain because of her. It's a shame I will forever carry.

nib95 · Sep 21, 2015

The Beard said:
In that linked YouTube video Ahmed says he wrapped the box with a cable so it'd look less suspicious. He didn't want to lock it because he didn't want it to look like a threat.

I told you guys it looked like a bomb. Even Ahmed is saying he knew it looked suspicious before he even brought it to school. I'm not sure why he'd even bring that to school? Was it for an assignment or extra credit? Were his teachers impressed with his rearranging of the clock parts?

I don't agree with how the school handled the situation. The school determined it wasn't a threat, and called the cops. Not sure how they determine if something is a hoax or not?

Right, aside from the fact that he straight away informed everyone, teachers, classmates and police alike, that it was indeed a clock, one that he had made. Key word clock.

metalslimer · Sep 21, 2015

Also the even slight insinuation that this was a bomb hoax is so fucking ludicrous considering he showed the damn thing to his teacher.

faridmon · Sep 21, 2015

Maninthemirror said:
My English is not that good either. I meant people are looking at words and trying to decipher meaning to create a framework of what they think happened rather than see in the public eye what did happen. It's often done when trying to downplay someone or something or a situation like the white house inviting the kid you don't agree with

Ah yes. I agree with what you said wholeheartedly.

Laughing Banana · Sep 21, 2015

EviLore said:
Twitter is a terrible medium for discussing nuanced issues.

Sourcing this video interview for example: https://youtu.be/3mW4w0Y1OXE

-Ahmed did not "invent" the clock as he has claimed. He took the clock's case off and put it into a small metal box from Target. He says he put a cable around the case to secure it so that it *wouldn't* look suspicious, but the case has a normal clasp.

-Ahmed has subsequently lied about every other one of his supposed inventions. He claimed to have "invented" a usb hub, which has now been widely reported, but in fact it's just an existing usb hub he took the case off of.

-He demonstrates some sort of invention briefly and highlights a transformer et al (the bundle of wires and whatnot), but that is confirmed to just be a karaoke machine taken out of its case and put into a big pile.

-He also later claimed to have invented bluetooth speakers, but says he doesn't have them anymore. And "an invention that harnesses power by using neodymium magnets."

Every one of his claimed inventions is fraudulent.

His initial motivations regarding bringing the clock to school? Unknown. Could have just been showing off to try to get cool points. It's clear that at no point did the school administration take the metal box as a legitimate bomb threat, though, since no precautions were taken and a bomb squad wasn't called in and an evacuation didn't take place. Rather it was immediately taken as an attempt at a bomb *hoax*, which is why he was arrested. Now, the arrest itself seems to be overboard/illegal and the validity of the accusations (whether he did anything to insinuate it was an actual bomb) are all in question, and potentially the result of racial profiling.

Fact remains, though, that the kid is caught up in a string of lies and is going all the way with it. It's good that we can leverage this case into broader societal concerns, but Ahmed shouldn't be propped up as a prodigy inventor in any way, and his personal statements have zero credibility.

Good God how petty can you be to act like this to a 14 years old being offered kindness by people after suffering treatments full of bigotry? "Lies"? That bolded part above is just unbelievable."Unknown motives"? Holy shit man you make it sound like he's a calculating criminal trying to get free goodies or he planned something nefarious/malicious or perhaps even worse!

There is little to nothing so "nuanced" over this. Kid gets treated with bigotry = people offering kindness = kid being a kid = adults who should have known better act like a petty little kid themselves, and might I add that "Ahmed" and him being a Muslim plays a huge part in it as well? Because only a naive idiot would say his background didn't play a part in all this ruckus.

God just unbelievable how petty can people calling themselves adult can become.

ThankYouDaletech · Sep 21, 2015

As awful as it would be to give racists more ammo, Ahmed pulling a Balloon Boy would really just be a cherry on top of this whole thing.

rjinaz said:
I used to want Palin to be the Vice President and in part voted for McCain because of her. It's a shame I will forever carry.

She looks cute in those glasses tho.

Damerman · Sep 21, 2015

danhese007 said:
When i was a kid, i "invented" a fan. It was just a DC motor from my broken toy car, hooked up to a cardboard designed to look like a table top fan. My mom was so proud of me and i was also very proud of myself for having "invented" a fan.

thats all there is to it. I'm not understanding how dawkins is jumping down a 14 year old's throat over this.

harSon · Sep 21, 2015

This is pretty much the same type of stuff that happens when the media puts black victims of police brutality/shootings under a microscope and trash their reputation. While a lot of it might be true, you have to ask yourself what's more important, the larger social issues stemming from the ordeal or the character of the victim?

rjinaz · Sep 21, 2015

The Beard said:
I was joking. I find it odd that people are digging up old "inventions" trying to expose him as a fraud. I'm not sure what that even proves.

Oh ok, phew.

You know I can actually imagine a thought process that went something like this:

I want to take this clock to school to show Mr. Johnson. I think it's cool. But I don't know, I'm Muslim. I mean what if people get the wrong idea. Nah it's just a clock, it's pretty easy to see it's just a clock and people bring their projects into class all the time. Still, I mean people don't like Muslims. Nah it's just a clock, I'm sure it will be fine. I'll try to make it look as much as a clock as possible, just in case.

efyu_lemonardo · Sep 21, 2015

Gr1mLock said:
The internet is delivering.

harSon said:
I'm just saying that it must suck, as a 14 year old, to have what happened to Ahmed - and then turn the TV on and see stuff like this: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...-brought-clock-to-school/ar-AAevFsE?li=AA54ur

I nearly spit out my drink at that headline. The internet is indeed delivering.

metalslimer · Sep 21, 2015

rjinaz said:
Oh ok, phew.

You know I can actually imagine a thought process that went something like this:

I want to take this clock to school to show Mr. Johnson. I think it's cool. But I don't know, I'm Muslim. I mean what if people get the wrong idea. Nah it's just a clock, it's pretty easy to see it's just a clock and people bring their projects into class all the time. Still, I mean people don't like Muslims. Nah it's just a clock, I'm sure it will be fine. I'll try to make it look as much as a clock as possible, just in case.

Anyone who is a minority has gone through a similar process at least once. I purposely don't where hoodies in affluent areas and try to not to get to close to anyone. Not like it matters, they usually cross the street at night anyway.

commedieu · Sep 21, 2015

injurai said:
See I actually agree with this and I get that this is what Dawkins was getting at.

However at the same time. Ahmed is an example of either, zero-tolerance gone mad or racial profiling. You choose. Either way both issues have been exposed.

In turn engineering and exploration are being promoted. A 14 year old kid is not a great target to vilify for an ultimate petty gripe. Especially when the whole ordeal took a turn to the positive. Ultimately the media is propagating the notions that he invented things, he's just keeping toe and being gracious for all the support. When I was a young kid I thought I was much more of a hot shot than I really was and I used to take things apart.

If you're going to tackle this at all from the angle that Dawkins did, already in bad taste for the above reasons. Then don't do it on twitter, and with half the facts. I think I like the Dawk still more than most people in here. But he needs to take a few L's and fix his act.

Is Richard Dawkins destroying his reputation?

It's weird because some of the beliefs people accuse Dawkins of secretly holding, he has explicit lectured against. He could totally have subconscious biases that play out on social media when he's not being careful. If he wants to be remembered fondly as a public educator and advocate for atheism he needs to check himself. I say peaceful atheism because that is what he has always argued for in practice. Holding ourselves more responsibly and finding morals and ethics outside of religious texts. But the tact and candor is breaking down.

Im with you. I dont think dawkins has it in him to tweet. Nor do I think this was a subject to throw himself on a sword for..

I was just watching him and ndt have such a damned good exchange. I like the guy. But recently finding some anti muslim tones to him... not in the same anti religion tones. But more direct.

To me a cop saying "thats the one I thought it would be" combined with interrogation w/parents paints what this situation ended up being.

Zero tolerance in school, sure, is another bountiful subject to discuss.

Yesterday, it was people having problems with "whiz kid" now its inventor... these words aren't really a problem in media. Since when is american media gospel? When is the comment from a 14 year old gospel? Ive never seen them come under such vicous scrutiny, as now. He didn't win some competiton. He got arrested...

People gave him stuff with a simple helpful tip of keep being curious...it was fluffy. A bullshit ending to a hallmark movie.

So.. since you agree..

How do we right the wrong? Send everything back? Or we all vote on not calling ahmed an inventor, today.

Its just. Shocking to see this unfold. I honestly didn't see a divison of the nation, over this kid. But I understimated again. It seems.

EviLore · Sep 21, 2015

Maninthemirror said:
His initiatial motivation for bringing the clock to school is unknown ? What are you trying to reach for ?

If the kid's personal statements have no credibility, which they don't, then we don't have any definitive conclusion about how he was acting with his metal case at school based on his statements alone. That is what Dawkins was expressing, as far as I can tell. Because Dawkins is saying it the implication is a presumption of nefariousness by Dawkins because the kid's Muslim and Dawkins has an anti-religious agenda. I don't care about the kid's ethnic or religious background, just whether his account of the story is credible or not, therefore the fact-checking about all of his blatant "invention" lies. His testimony about the events is not credible due to the extent of demonstrable lies in interviews surrounding the event.

Kids do get detained and questioned at school all the time -- even kids far younger than Ahmed -- over making jokes about school shootings or bringing toy weapons to school or whatever, and they are sometimes expelled afterwards even when it's concluded that there isn't malicious intent involved by the student. It's all usually deemed ridiculous and overboard by the public in those cases, certainly, and has been in this case as well.

This incident happens to have a racial angle because of lingering terrrrrist mania in the United States, and there very well may have been a further disproportionate response by the school because of Ahmed's background. Without Ahmed's testimony, though, this looks a lot more plausibly like one of the standard overboard school reactions we've seen elsewhere with jokes about school shootings et al. Was he treated worse because of his background? It would not surprise me in the least. Would another kid have been detained at all, with that metal case? Unclear without knowing how Ahmed was presenting the case at school that day.

Terra Firma said:
And lastly, he is a 14 year old kid with a knack for tinkering. So what if he didn't invent a clock or a USB hub? The whole point of the response he is getting is so that he is encouraged to continue exploring and to foster his curiosity.

He has a knack for lying, not tinkering.

victreeb3l · Sep 21, 2015

rjinaz said:
Oh ok, phew.

You know I can actually imagine a thought process that went something like this:

I want to take this clock to school to show Mr. Johnson. I think it's cool. But I don't know, I'm Muslim. I mean what if people get the wrong idea. Nah it's just a clock, it's pretty easy to see it's just a clock and people bring their projects into class all the time. Still, I mean people don't like Muslims. Nah it's just a clock, I'm sure it will be fine. I'll try to make it look as much as a clock as possible, just in case.

When you're a brown dude you're always overthinking these things. Things like making sure you aren't wearing a hoodie inside a store or that your hands aren't inside your pockets or not speaking your language with your brother when you're in the subway or something. Shit like that gets instilled in you after years and years of dealing with bullshit.

metalslimer · Sep 21, 2015

EviLore said:
If the kid's personal statements have no credibility, which they don't, then we don't have any definitive conclusion about how he was acting with his metal briefcase at school based on his statements alone. That is what Dawkins was expressing, as far as I can tell. Because Dawkins is saying it the implication is a presumption of nefariousness by Dawkins because the kid's Muslim and Dawkins has an anti-religious agenda. I don't care about the kid's ethnic or religious background, just whether his account of the story is credible or not, therefore the fact-checking about all of his blatant "invention" lies. His testimony about the events is not credible due to the extent of demonstrable lies in interviews surrounding the event.

Kids do get detained and questioned at school all the time -- even kids far younger than Ahmed -- over making jokes about school shootings or bringing toy weapons to school or whatever, and they are sometimes expelled afterwards even when it's concluded that there isn't malicious intent involved by the student. It's all usually deemed ridiculous and overboard by the public in those cases, certainly, and has been in this case as well.

This incident happens to have a racial angle because of lingering terrrrrist mania in the United States, and there very well may have been a further disproportionate response by the school because of Ahmed's background. Without Ahmed's testimony, though, this looks a lot more plausibly like one of the standard overboard school reactions we've seen elsewhere with jokes about school shootings et al. Was he treated worse because of his background? It would not surprise me in the least. Would another kid have been detained at all, with that metal case? Unclear without knowing how Ahmed was presenting the case at school that day.

He has a knack for lying, not tinkering.

Jesus Christ it was not a briefcase. At least do some research on the case first....

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