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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro

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B

BananasWithGuns

Member
gutshot said:
Trump also has the Warrior Quest deck as trash tier. LOL

Pretty sure it will end up as the only playable quest deck.
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Ehh, I don't agree with that. Druid is definitely playable, even if it's just in Jade. Warlock should absolutely be playable considering how much ammo the archetype is getting. I expect the Shaman quest to see play too because I don't really believe that you have to fully commit to a murloc archetype to use it.
 
X

Xanathus

Member
I started theorycrafting Standard decks and comparing them to each other, and I'm pretty sure that PIrate Warrior is still the best deck unless Anti-Pirate cards and/or Taunt Warrior becomes extremely popular (where every single matchup is playing an anti-pirate card or the one that destroys weapons).
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
The quests are so hard to evaluate. I could even see rogue or paladin ending up being the OP quest deck depending on which deck ends up having the best general deck before completing the quest and getting value off it.

Except priest. That one is very obviously terrible.
 
Z

ZZMitch

Member
Xanathus said:
I started theorycrafting Standard decks and comparing them to each other, and I'm pretty sure that PIrate Warrior is still the best deck unless Anti-Pirate cards and/or Taunt Warrior becomes extremely popular (where every single matchup is playing an anti-pirate card or the one that destroys weapons).
Click to expand...

My brain tells me Pirate Warrior is still gunna be king but my heart wants me to believe that Blizzard was smart and made this set in such a way to make Pirate Warrior not the best deck.

I don't have high hopes.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Yaboosh said:
Trump's all about the humongous razorleaf as what brings back handlock. 5 stars for him.
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No that card isn't that good. Would rather just play the Tar Creeper and Second Rate Bruiser for early game taunts.

Sunfury/DoA are dead cards when you don't have those cards and without Molten Giants. There aren't enough targets to taunt up these days. Handlock isn't getting anything done to be honest.

I started theorycrafting Standard decks and comparing them to each other, and I'm pretty sure that PIrate Warrior is still the best deck unless Anti-Pirate cards and/or Taunt Warrior becomes extremely popular (where every single matchup is playing an anti-pirate card or the one that destroys weapons).
Click to expand...
I personally had top 5 decks as follows:

Pirate Warrior
Some Shaman deck (Jade Shaman or Elemental Shaman or generic Midrange)
Discard Zoolock (w/ or w/o quest)
Jade/Ramp Druid (w/ or w/o quest)
Some Hunter deck (Aggro or Midrange, w/ or w/o quest)


Control Warrior as tier 2 deck with the Quest and Taunts.

Wildcards are the Mage combo deck, Murloc Shaman deck, Aggro Pirate/Water Rogue.

I think if Aggro is prevalent then a lot of players will try to force a way to make Quest Priest work to get that pseudo Reno Jackson win condition.


Paladin is probably pretty far behind. Their best hope is to develop some sort of Weenie Aggro deck.
 
H

homeworkfilms

Member
Pirate warrior being a smaller part of the meta relies not on its direct counter but the counter to the counter not also being too prevalent. So the issue is not only pirate warrior, but also jade druid. If control warrior can find a way to be more relevant and jade druids diminish (I am not hopeful), then maybe we will see less yarrr. There are a lot of good taunts in this release. Those alone could bring down the pirate win rate enough for it to basically disappear. Of course a lot of this is really up in the air until we see how everything plays out in a week or 2.
 
F

FeD.nL

Member
scarlet said:
I've been playing control for 3 days. Stuck in rank 18-20. Decided to play aggro shaman. Reach 15 in less than 20 minutes.
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That's the one thing I really like of Ungoro, Control Decks seemingly getting faster. Like the Warrior quest gives Control War a pretty fast clock relatively speaking. Same for time warp. Brings the time to win much closer to that of Aggro decks who, at first sight, become slower due to the abbundance of well statted taunt minions this expansion.
 
T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
Watching Lifecoaches review and seeing the Marsh queen simulator website has me shook. Welcome to your new Hunter meta. Hope I pull like 3 Hunter quests from packs cause that shit is getting nerfed.
 
Z

zoukka

Member
Timedog said:
Watching Lifecoaches review and seeing the Marsh queen simulator website has me shook. Welcome to your new Hunter meta. Hope I pull like 3 Hunter quests from packs cause that shit is getting nerfed.
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Any mechanic that rewards you for dumping a bunch of cheap minions on board is bound to the strong as hell.
 
P

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
I saw a link to a twitch vod of Lifecoach where he said while seeing the cards early that he specifically told Blizzard not to print the hunter quest. But here we are.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Papercuts said:
I saw a link to a twitch vod of Lifecoach where he said while seeing the cards early that he specifically told Blizzard not to print the hunter quest. But here we are.
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did he really think they'd change it? Blizzard should have been done with UnGoro some time ago. Whatever repalcement quest they would have done would not have had enough time to be tested and properly developed.
 
P

Pooya

Member
shaman and pirate warrior will beat the shit out of quest hunter, so I'm not worried about it being some new oppressive deck, the older ones take care of it...
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
fertygo said:
Link?

Oh boy here we go
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https://www.twitch.tv/videos/132749216?t=50m01s

26 one drops seems like too many to me.

Isn't the chance of drawing 2 raptors in a row next turn way less than 50%?

Two 3/2s, a one drop, and a hero power isn't exactly the strongest turn 6 or 7 you can have, unless the opponent is already super low on health and defensive resources. With fewer one drops you can increase the chance of getting a good card to accompany the 3/2s, which is probably the right thing to do, but then you're also increasing the odds of turn 8 or later quest completion, which also seems like an auto loss.

I suppose with 27 one drops plus the guy that draws one drops, you can guarantee turn 6 completion and play of the quest reward, and have that guy in your hand ready to really get you going on raptors, but that's at a cost of playing exactly a single one drop turn 4 and 5.

Besides, why would you give up turn one when you have a chance of insane one drop into Razormaw plays.

miladesn said:
shaman and pirate warrior will beat the shit out of quest hunter, so I'm not worried about it being some new oppressive deck, the older ones take care of it...
Click to expand...

This too, but I think it's more than just that. It would be troubling if the only reason this isn't good enough is pirates.
 
Z

zoukka

Member
miladesn said:
shaman and pirate warrior will beat the shit out of quest hunter, so I'm not worried about it being some new oppressive deck, the older ones take care of it...
Click to expand...

We'll have to see in what shape Shaman remains after it loses so many key cards.

With pirate it's a battle of 1-drops and if the hunter deck has room for taunts/heal then maybe it has a change. But yeah the quest reward is completely irrelevant against pirates.
 
F

fertygo

Member
Watching Lifecoach's review, he's wayyyyyyyyyy oversimplifying thing, the game flow most of time not gonna like he described at all
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
zoukka said:
We'll have to see in what shape Shaman remains after it loses so many key cards.

With pirate it's a battle of 1-drops and if the hunter deck has room for taunts/heal then maybe it has a change. But yeah the quest reward is completely irrelevant against pirates.
Click to expand...

Murloc Shaman alone seems almost strictly better, at least over the mostly 1 drop version of quest hunter. It's something like 50% you play the 8/8 turn 6, and 80% you do it turn 7 for shaman, except murlocs are generally better than a bunch of random 1 drops, and the reward is guaranteed refilling your hand.

Maybe there's a version of quest hunter that runs like 12 one drops and is ok with only completing the quest 50% of the time? But that also means 50% of the time you are giving up turn 1 and a card for nothing.
 
S

Szadek

Member
zoukka said:
We'll have to see in what shape Shaman remains after it loses so many key cards.

With pirate it's a battle of 1-drops and if the hunter deck has room for taunts/heal then maybe it has a change. But yeah the quest reward is completely irrelevant against pirates.
Click to expand...
Shaman is losing like 2-3 cards and while that's a problem, they are also getting many new toys.
Not to mention Murloc and elemental shaman, which both look promissing.

Although, I wonder if they can still play jades. Hard to tell without theorycrafting and testing.
 
S

SonicXtreme

Member
i never got that neptulon card, is that worth running in murloc shaman? obv it looks like garbo in general but i never considered the card enough to think if it might be a sort of curator in that deck
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
SonicXtreme said:
i never got that neptulon card, is that worth running in murloc shaman? obv it looks like garbo in general but i never considered the card enough to think if it might be a sort of curator in that deck
Click to expand...

Neptulon isn't garbo in general. In fact he might be better in general than he is in murloc shaman.
 
S

SonicXtreme

Member
hm. i guess it's probably worth it in the wild version. but besides old murk eye what else would you gain from wild?

like the hunter quest, 0 reason to run it in wild that i see, it's ten times more degenerate in standard. standard is going to be soooo aggro its insane. control has a chance in wild at least.
 
Y

Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
SonicXtreme said:
i never got that neptulon card, is that worth running in murloc shaman? obv it looks like garbo in general but i never considered the card enough to think if it might be a sort of curator in that deck
Click to expand...


Seems a bit heavy but a second reload doesn't seem like the worst idea.

Quest, double everyfin, neptulon, two Maelstrom, and every decent murloc. Probably the summon four murlocs card too.

Problem for me is I don't have old murkeye or finja yet. Those seem like evergreens at this point though.


SonicXtreme said:
hm. i guess it's probably worth it in the wild version. but besides old murk eye what else would you gain from wild?

like the hunter quest, 0 reason to run it in wild that i see, it's ten times more degenerate in standard. standard is going to be soooo aggro its insane. control has a chance in wild at least.
Click to expand...


Everyfin. So gross.
 
S

Szadek

Member
SonicXtreme said:
i never got that neptulon card, is that worth running in murloc shaman? obv it looks like garbo in general but i never considered the card enough to think if it might be a sort of curator in that deck
Click to expand...
Neptulon is good card, severed my very well back in the GVG and black rock days.
It was one of the reason why I almost never lost to control warrior and it made control priest beatable.
Not sure how he holds up now, but if murloc shamans need more "draw" effects in wild, this might be good enough.
 
P

Pooya

Member
Murloc quest is really hard to evaluate. Most reviews I've seen they entirely dismiss murlocs as fun card of course but that's not the first time people undervalued them.

Completing quest doesn't seem hard but I'm not sure what kind of deck you play. I think you can play a more midrange shaman that has a the quest but it's not all in on murlocs but you lose one card like that, it's a big deal in shaman, do you even need the quest in a deck like that?

If you go full face murloc deck I don't know if it's going be very good. It can be very inconsistent like before, you highroll specially with wild cards like gentle megasaur and it looks like the most broken deck othertimes you lose so badly that question what are you doing. On paper it doesn't seem that different from hunter quest but still their power level could be very different, 3/2 raptors are much better than average murloc in your hand but there is RNG of course. I'm not going to claim anything on evaluating these quests. Actually I abstain from evaluating any of the quests except warrior one. So don't go quoting some old posts of mine later mocking me on some quest card, I preemptively covered my ass...
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
SonicXtreme said:
hm. i guess it's probably worth it in the wild version. but besides old murk eye what else would you gain from wild?

like the hunter quest, 0 reason to run it in wild that i see, it's ten times more degenerate in standard. standard is going to be soooo aggro its insane. control has a chance in wild at least.
Click to expand...

I probably wouldn't play neptulon. It is a good card, but too slow for that deck when the quest already has you covered for refilling your hand. I would definitely play Finley and Murkeye, and consider Spiritwalker and Puddlestomper.
 
G

gutshot

Member
miladesn said:
Murloc quest is really hard to evaluate. Most reviews I've seen they entirely dismiss murlocs as fun card of course but that's not the first time people undervalued them.

Completing quest doesn't seem hard but I'm not sure what kind of deck you play. I think you can play a more midrange shaman that has a the quest but it's not all in on murlocs but you lose one card like that, it's a big deal in shaman, do you even need the quest in a deck like that?

If you go full face murloc deck I don't know if it's going be very good. It can be very inconsistent like before, you highroll specially with wild cards like gentle megasaur and it looks like the most broken deck othertimes you lose so badly that question what are you doing. On paper it doesn't seem that different from hunter quest but still their power level could be very different, 3/2 raptors are much better than average murloc in your hand but there is RNG of course. I'm not going to claim anything on evaluating these quests. Actually I abstain from evaluating any of the quests except warrior one. So don't quoting some old posts of mine later mocking me on some quest card, I preemptively covered my ass...
Click to expand...

I think the best Murloc Shaman deck will be one that isn't all-in on Murlocs. You run the Water package plus Call in the Finishers. That should be enough to complete the quest when you actually need it (late game and have run out of steam). The rest of your deck is filled with just good Midrange Shaman cards.

It remains to be seen whether that will be better than Jade Shaman, Elemental Shaman or just standard Midrange Shaman.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
Everyfin is Awesome is probably the only card that makes a fully aggressive murloc shaman even semi-viable, and will be rotated out.

I suspect the murloc quest is better than people think it is, though, because of Call in the Finishers. But I think that deck will move in a more diverse direction that could run a Zoobot/Menagerie package rather than a pure aggro direction.
 
G

Glass Shark

Banned
I went ahead and dusted all my cards that are rotating out of Standard so I could craft complete golden sets of the cards rotating to Hall of Fame. After opening all my banked Un'Goro packs, I'm looking at around 17000 dust. Hoping that will be enough to craft the competitive stuff from the new set.
 
D

DSmalls84

Member
jrh2 said:
I went ahead and dusted all my cards that are rotating out of Standard so I could craft complete golden sets of the cards rotating to Hall of Fame. After opening all my banked Un'Goro packs, I'm looking at around 17000 dust. Hoping that will be enough to craft the competitive stuff from the new set.
Click to expand...

I thought about doing this, but I think I might pop in to wild from time to time to play Reno decks.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
I'll be dusting a lot. I'll have less resources going in than I had going into MSG by a large margin. But I might have more dust in the end. I plan on playing arena first, because the average MSG pack is very high value in your earliest packs. I was gonna grind arena til launch but realized I should wait to get the high value JTU packs.

Familienoberhauptvogel said:
Wouldn't you mulligan the Druid quest every time. It only gets relevant later in the game anyways.
They fall back on their german a bunch, makes the english only version a bit less descriptive
Click to expand...

You can start progress on the druid quest as soon as turn 3 though. Only against aggro is quest progress irrelevant imo.
 
P

Pooya

Member
that card is only good if you discarded doomguard or itself, my understanding is that if you discard the legendary it will come back as a 2/2 from this. So why play this when you can just play something like Cairne for same cost when most outcomes are likely far worse? Well, you're not going to play Cairne either so I don't know what is the point of this card. Could be valuable in arena though.
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
I hate how Finja gets the bonus effect of the murlocs it draws so even if it trades to death it lives cause of the warleader.
 
F

FeD.nL

Member
ZealousD said:
What the heck?

Kibler thinks Cruel Dinomancer is powerful.
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Depending on if you can make a controllish, discard Handlock variant it might.

It's definitely one of the cards I'm most interested in. Just for the fact that you could theoretically get a 5/5 dread steeds that keeps coming back while you control the board with spells.
 
D

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
FeD.nL said:
Depending on if you can make a controllish, discard Handlock variant it might.

It's definitely one of the cards I'm most interested in. Just for the fact that you could theoretically get a 5/5 dread steeds that keeps coming back while you control the board with spells.
Click to expand...
There is no real path for a control style of Warlock with the number of heal options that are rotating out of the game.
 
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