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Forza Motorsport 4 - The Floodgates Have Opened...

Jamesways

Jamesways

Member
Seanspeed said:
I love Forza, but it still lacks in many areas, and I dont think 'not updating to current layouts of tracks' is really one of the more important things to work on. You have your opinion, I know, but I'm very glad people like you aren't in charge of development.
Click to expand...

Seanspeed, we've had lengthy debates on fm.net about Race Pro in the past, and I respect you and your opinions.

I know my opinion has no bearing on how you feel about Turn 10 or the game. I love Forza too, and you know I'm a race replica painting addict/whore. I love mimicking the motorsports I follow through the racing, mostly through custom multi-class lobbies. I also know I'm coming off as sour grapes about this so far, but I am still looking forward to it and just hoped they'd acknowledge their tried and true fan base a bit more.

Granted they have in many ways, i.e. the car list, brining back car clubs, importing vinyl groups, re-working the cockpits, improving the lighting and graphics, etc.


Since you brought it up, if I were in charge of development, I'd keep the starting car list somewhat simlar to 3's, adding new cars down the line via DLC.

I'd listen to the fans and put back in some FM1 tracks. I know for a fact they worked on Blue Mountains for fm2 before it got cut. NY Long might be a quicker addition since the environment assest in already in.

I'd listen to the real world track requests and put resources towards creating Spa and/or Bathurst. I'd update Silverstone, and keep the old layouts like Shift did.

I'd make more use of the ALMS license with a few more tracks if time permittted before release, or offer one or two as DLC. I'd at least update the liveries to the 2010 season, and maybe have the 2011 season cars and liveries as a DLC pack in the future.

I would have taken a page from Race Pro or Shift and added some well needed track texture and bumps to all of the courses, so they aren't all glass smooth.

I would have saved time but not including a Kinect arcade mode. I would not have spent a lengthy ammount of time on another fictional mountain track since Ladera, Iberian, and Camino Viejo are similar.

People want variety, and aside from the car collector othergame5 mentality some have, most would prefer it to be in the form of track variation. I would have put more focus on that.


But I understand Turn 10's goals, make the game appeal to many markets, and that both makes Forza fantastic and hampers it in specific areas at the same time. It's so vast it appeals to casuals, online racers, hotlappers, drifters, motorsport series fans, painters, photographers, and general car nuts. Add in the new Kinect driving mode and they'll possible gain another demographic.
All of this is a big undertaking for a 2 year cycle, and like you said, you can't have it all. Or please everyone.
 
S

ShapeGSX

Member
supersaw said:
The cockpit animations are still gimped at 270 degrees :/
Click to expand...

Animation of a driver's arms doing more than 270 degrees of rotation is really hard to do. Different drivers have different styles. Do you have the arms shuffle or go hand over hand? What happens when the steering input changes too fast for the arm animation to keep up?
 
S

supersaw

Member
ShapeGSX said:
Animation of a driver's arms doing more than 270 degrees of rotation is really hard to do. Different drivers have different styles. Do you have the arms shuffle or go hand over hand? What happens when the steering input changes too fast for the arm animation to keep up?
Click to expand...

I find the hand animations kind of distracting, you animate wheel only or give the option to toggle the wheel model on or off. As a wheel user I turn the wheel model off in most pc games.
 
A

adelante

Member
soundscream said:
I wanna see what happens when someone drives through the snow on the side of the road on the alps track.
Click to expand...
lol I've always wondered if those little snow piles would crumble... though I doubt they've built in a particle system let alone have your vehicle lose traction when you drive through them.
 
skyfinch

skyfinch

Member
ShapeGSX said:
Animation of a driver's arms doing more than 270 degrees of rotation is really hard to do. Different drivers have different styles. Do you have the arms shuffle or go hand over hand? What happens when the steering input changes too fast for the arm animation to keep up?
Click to expand...


I think the animation once the hands reach 12 o'clock is too abrupt. It just stops and looks like it locks in place. Looks a bit weird when you're doing a really sharp turn. Maybe they can do with Shift does and have the hands/wheel vibrate once at 12 o'clock.

Ah...I'm just nitpicking at this point.
 
S

Snubbers

Member
CrudeDiatribe said:
The upcoming MS air-wheel has ∞° rotation™.


... I'm OK with 270° rotation, but I wish there was a clutch pedal.
Click to expand...

I'm amazed to say, my Fanatec PWTS is set to 210 degrees, and I only ever use the Clutch Pedal when messing around setting off, but apart from that, I use the button. I even turn FFB down a little for prolonged use..

The reason? Being a game (Shocking revelation to some ;)) I find there is more immediacy with still more then enough accuracy and it sped up my hotlap times no end.. I realised I was losing fistfuls of time in turning the wheel into/out of tight hairpins etc, with 210 degrees I can whip to full lock without removing my hands off the wheel and do this for hours at a time..

I get why people want 900 degrees and a clutch, but I'm not about the notion of mimicking real life, just going fast.. ;)

That's the reason I stick with the Fanatec, their support may lack at times, but the products can cater for oddballs like me as much as the hyper-realism fruitcakes.. ;)
 
C

CrudeDiatribe

Member
soundscream said:
I wanna see what happens when someone drives through the snow on the side of the road on the alps track.
Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGnOHg8KU_I

West coast drivers are like baby birds.

Snubbers said:
I get why people want 900 degrees and a clutch, but I'm not about the notion of mimicking real life, just going fast.
Click to expand...

I want our next car to be a stick. Dearly Beloved™ doesn't know how to drive a stick. She loves driving, so I figure a cheap XBox wheel with a clutch might lower my barrier to entry.
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
eso76 said:
far more? like what ? you're just seeing things in terms of tracks and while i can understand that, we don't even know the full track list yet. The game appears to have at least 7 new tracks with several variations each. Possibly, more variations for old tracks.
Not amazing (as far as new tracks are concerned, but the whole package IS an amazing improvement for a 2 years dev cycle) but enough.
Click to expand...

shift 1 came out sept 09 with 19 track locations
shift 2 released march 11, one and a half years later, with 36 locations

i cant imagine slightly mad had a budget or team size even comparable to turn 10, yet they added 17 locations in 1.5 years. seventeen. that is impressive.

and please dont rattle off every new thing or improvement forza 4 brings to the table that F3 didnt have. every game has those improvements, including shift 2 in a shorter time frame.

i am looking forward to F4, it will be glorious, we do not know the final content of the shipping game, but it appears to be a bit lackluster when compared to others in the genre. sorry, my 2 cents.
 
skyfinch

skyfinch

Member
Did anyone notice in the "Dan's presentation" vid on Blim's site (gamersyde) that the alps has spectators? It's a bit hard to see because of the 16 screen setup.

So it's an updated build from E3 and not the build that people are able to play on the show floor, since he's also using his BMW that's not selectable.
 
S

sneaky77

Member
acm2000 said:
80 euros? no forcefeedback then, waste of time, werent madcatz coming out with 2 new wheels? one basic, one premium? cant find the info atm
Click to expand...

yeah madcatz has a force feedback wheel coming out this fall.
 
O

OrangeOak

Member
skyfinch said:
Did anyone notice in the "Dan's presentation" vid on Blim's site (gamersyde) that the alps has spectators? It's a bit hard to see because of the 16 screen setup.

So it's an updated build from E3 and not the build that people are able to play on the show floor, since he's also using his BMW that's not selectable.
Click to expand...

Yes ,they probably don't have time now to make demos for each event and Dan Greenawalt has his sweet devkit with the newest built on it.
 
A

antiquegamer

Member
op_ivy said:
shift 1 came out sept 09 with 19 track locations
shift 2 released march 11, one and a half years later, with 36 locations

i cant imagine slightly mad had a budget or team size even comparable to turn 10, yet they added 17 locations in 1.5 years. seventeen. that is impressive.

and please dont rattle off every new thing or improvement forza 4 brings to the table that F3 didnt have. every game has those improvements, including shift 2 in a shorter time frame.

i am looking forward to F4, it will be glorious, we do not know the final content of the shipping game, but it appears to be a bit lackluster when compared to others in the genre. sorry, my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

Wait you don't want us to rattle off new improvement to F4 but yet complain it's bring nothing new to the table. F4 bring many new things to the table it just happen not the things you want (ie more tracks). F4 for better or worst is definitely gear more to get the casual into "sim" racing genre hence the addition of thing like Auto vista, Top Gears and yes more and more cars.
 
metareferential

metareferential

Member
So does the Thrustmaster new wheel have ffb? It should have it, since it's officially licensed.

Not that I care personally, I am rocking a 911 Turbo S wheel, but I have poor friends, you know. xD
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
antiquegamer said:
Wait you don't want us to rattle off new improvement to F4 but yet complain it's bring nothing new to the table. F4 bring many new things to the table it just happen not the things you want (ie more tracks). F4 for better or worst is definitely gear more to get the casual into "sim" racing genre hence the addition of thing like Auto vista, Top Gears and yes more and more cars.
Click to expand...

my entire argument that keeps going back and forth with eso76 is that F4 doesnt have an "amazing amount of content for 2 years of development". IMO, shift 2 added far more in less time - and it wasnt JUST 17 new locations. just like F4 they improved the lighting engine, added night racing (one of the best yet!), autolog, added new camera angles including the pretty major (whether your a fan or not) helmet cam, revamped the handling and physics model, more then doubled the amount of cars, etc etc. i didnt want to get into list wars of all the fairly minor improvements from game to game, but rather point out that 5 to 7 new locations for forza 4 is not only NOT an amazing amount of content in 2 years, its down right disappointing.
 
A

acm2000

Member
metareferential said:
So does the Thrustmaster new wheel have ffb? It should have it, since it's officially licensed.

Not that I care personally, I am rocking a 911 Turbo S wheel, but I have poor friends, you know. xD
Click to expand...

no, supposedly madcatz have 2 wheels out this fall, basic with rumble, premium with force feedback, but we shall see
 
S

sneaky77

Member
acm2000 said:
no, supposedly madcatz have 2 wheels out this fall, basic with rumble, premium with force feedback, but we shall see
Click to expand...

yeah I believe the force feedback is going to be around $200 which is a cheaper than available now options, that's the one I am keeping my eye out for personally..
 
S

saladine1

Junior Member
Forza Garage Round 2: Smaller-bore Italian cars can be beautiful, too, as the 1969 Ferrari Dino 246 GT is here to prove. Also welcome the 1980 Abarth 131 Abarth, and 1965 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GTA Stradale to Forza 4!
Click to expand...
So it's Abarth now and not under Fiat?

Edit:
In terms of career mode, note that the gain of experience will no longer only to unlock cars, but will also give the player unique improvements to his car.
Click to expand...

http://www.gamalive.com/actus/10345-forza-motorsport-4-preview-gamescom.htm
 
S

shinnn

Member
acm2000 said:
no, supposedly madcatz have 2 wheels out this fall, basic with rumble, premium with force feedback, but we shall see
Click to expand...
There's just one new wheel from Madcatz. The non-ffb wheel is already on the market.

edit: ops. my bad. You are right. There will be more than one wheel

http://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/Forza4_Wheels/

"Finally you can also expect new wheels from Madcatz that will also be compatible with Forza 4, including a force-feedback model that will cost $230 and a less expensive option as well."
 
G

G Rom

Member
We already knew that saladine. ;) (damn your edit, I was talking about the Abarth part)

op_ivy said:
my entire argument that keeps going back and forth with eso76 is that F4 doesnt have an "amazing amount of content for 2 years of development". IMO, shift 2 added far more in less time - and it wasnt JUST 17 new locations. just like F4 they improved the lighting engine, added night racing (one of the best yet!), autolog, added new camera angles including the pretty major (whether your a fan or not) helmet cam, revamped the handling and physics model, more then doubled the amount of cars, etc etc. i didnt want to get into list wars of all the fairly minor improvements from game to game, but rather point out that 5 to 7 new locations for forza 4 is not only NOT an amazing amount of content in 2 years, its down right disappointing.
Click to expand...


I've played Shift 2 on PC, while tracks aren't for the most part as glassy as Forza, the proportions are still a complete joke (as is the gameplay IMO).
Also, Autolog was developed by Criterion so it's quite easy to add a major feature like that if you don't do it yourself...
Some of the new cars were most likely brought over from HP too.

I'm not trying to downplay SMS' achievement, I think that Shift 2 looks fantastic actually but I also think the comparison isn't really fair since we don't even know everything about Forza 4.


When we hear some of you, it sounds like the game will only be rebadged Forza 3 discs.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
G Rom said:
When we hear some of you, it sounds like the game will only be rebadged Forza 3 discs.
Click to expand...

Well ...

293180_101502584388363l5o7.jpg


But you're right, it's definitely more than a rebadged Forza 3. I, for one, see it as a DLC collection pack that was never released on XBLA. I can live with that.
 
A

adelante

Member
brotkasten said:
Well ...

http://www.abload.de/img/293180_101502584388363l5o7.jpg[//IMG]

But you're right, it's definitely more than a rebadged Forza 3. I, for one, see it as a DLC collection pack [B]plus a major graphics upgrade patch[/B] that was never released on XBLA. I can live with that.[/QUOTE]
Fixed for me =D
Click to expand...
 
eso76

eso76

Member
op_ivy said:
my entire argument that keeps going back and forth with eso76 is that F4 doesnt have an "amazing amount of content for 2 years of development". IMO, shift 2 added far more in less time -
Click to expand...

See i might be biased because i actually think racing games really start to shine when you do focus on a small number of tracks and try to master them with different cars and settings. Give me too many variables and i'll feel overwhelmed and only appreciate the surface of things. But that's just me, i know.

Anyway if by content you mean tracks i can see your point, but i wasn't talking about just that. it's an amazing amount of improvements.
No, not every game has those, not every game doubles the amount of cars without sacrificing framerate and actually improving all other aspects quite significantly.
Shift 2 actually looks WORSE than Shift 1, for example and i really disliked it for several reason which made me put it back in its box before even seeing half of those new locations, but that's beyond the point.

You should also consider a single car in fm4 probably requires 5 times the amount of work that goes into one of those shift 2 models.
Would you accept Shift 2 level models in Forza ? Didn't think so.

And i'm not even talking about autovista cars, those are an entirely different beast.
If another developer were to be believed those alone should take 3 months each.

I understand your point, you'd rather they spent resources on more tracks, ok. But we don't even know how many are there in the end, and everything considered i really don't think you can say the guys at T10 were not efficient.
 
M

-MikePriester-

Member
G Rom said:
When we hear some of you, it sounds like the game will only be rebadged Forza 3 discs.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say it's that bad Rom, it could be a lot worse. Wanting more 'content' is never a bad thing in my book, and as soo many are very keen on the Forza franchise, they just want more or what they love.

But, the two and thro between Forza and NFS can get tiring real quick.
 
A

adelante

Member
-MikePriester- said:
I wouldn't say it's that bad Rom, it could be a lot worse. Wanting more 'content' is never a bad thing in my book, and as soo many are very keen on the Forza franchise, they just want more or what they love.
Click to expand...
It's one thing to want more but I think it's another thing altogether to dismiss the improvements and additions that we've seen so far as nothing substantial imho
 
skyfinch

skyfinch

Member
-MikePriester- said:
I wouldn't say it's that bad Rom, it could be a lot worse. Wanting more 'content' is never a bad thing in my book, and as soo many are very keen on the Forza franchise, they just want more or what they love.

But, the two and thro between Forza and NFS can get tiring real quick.
Click to expand...


FM4 vs NFS Shift 2 thread confirmed. :p
 
S

sneaky77

Member
adelante said:
It's one thing to want more but I think it's another thing altogether to dismiss the improvements and additions that we've seen so far as nothing substantial imho
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is dismissing the improvements, but this being the 4th game, all they needed to do was keep tracks from previous games and the track list would be quite varied.
 
G

G Rom

Member
BTW, one last thing about Shift 2, the use of the Porsche license was a fucking joke. If we end up not having it in Forza 4, I'll be pissed because Forza 3 had 26 (excl. duplicates and incl. DLC) Porsche in the game while Shift 2 has only 12 (incl. DLC). If you buy the exclusive rights to a manufacturer, at least put it to good use ffs !!
 
A

adelante

Member
sneaky77 said:
I don't think anyone is dismissing the improvements, but this being the 4th game, all they needed to do was keep tracks from previous games and the track list would be quite varied.
Click to expand...
I suppose they could have imported the old tracks like Shipyard without upgrading the graphics! =p
 
O

OrangeOak

Member
It is also probably harder and more time consuming for T10 to add night,weather and improve their graphics engine when they have different goals than other developers out there. They not only want to have a nice looking game with all those features but also maintain 60fps v-synced gameplay.
I also think we should wait and see if there are any announcements left before we start to judge this game.
For me personally updated graphics,updated physics,much better cockpits and some new cars plus tracks along with new modes like Rivals mode are enough to buy this game day one.
They have already fixed pretty much everything that i had issues with in FM3 and that might still not be everything they have in store.
 
M

Mascot

Member
Can't decide whether to model Spa or Interlagos first using the track creator. We should post which ones we are doing in this thread to avoid duplicates.

Believe.
 
K

kaskade

Member
Is the Mad Catz wheel taking the place of the discontinued official one? I like the thrustmaster one but the lack of force feedback kind of sucks. I'd like to get a wheel but I don't want to spend a crazy amount of money.
 
eso76

eso76

Member
interesting stuff from fm.net

Just came back from the Gamescom.

I was pretty much only there because of Forza.

So, I got my hands on the Ferrari GTO on the new Alps Track and the M5 on the Nürburgring GP.

I used one of the spaecs with normal TVs and Controllers.

At first the game looks fantastic. The lighting really comes out very very good.

Secondly driving....

I pretty much used the same assists I use in F3...none. Unfortunately there wasn't an option to swich the clutch button, so I drove with manual only.

Especially with the GTO you find out what is different to Forza 3. The car is much more agile....you really need to fight it on the egde. Like on the last corner of the Alps Track I went into a slide/drift....countersteered ....a bit too much.... and bam the car got me. Really impressive how real that feeled.

The sound seems to be pretty good, but it was way too loud to really say something about it.

Only Problem I had with the game so far was that the AI was way too slow. But thats maybe jsut because it is not the finished product.

Sooo....rumor/other thing wise....

No sign of Night racing. No Porsche or Ruf to see. So there are no news conerning those.

Moving Aero...YEEEES....The Airintakes of the Murcielago LP670 went open and closed again while I passed it....Looked really great. But didn't saw the Airbrake of the Veyron. Don't know if it is there, just didn't saw it.
Click to expand...


Ok, I try to describe what the Physics are....

So, in FM3 the Feedback you get from the car is extremely good. But the cars are a bit too easy to drive. When you go straight, you go straight, you do not need to do something...quite the same in the corners. Of course there comes some oversteer in some way but it is quite static.

That is when FM4 kicks in, the cars are just lively....You really need to work the wheel/controller to get the line right. It is quite hard to describe but in FM3 the cars behave like they should....and in FM4 they behave like they really behave.

I only played with simulation steering, because thats what I'll play with when it comes out. SO I don't know about the other options.

And with the GTO is.....take Topgear. Jeremy drove the GTO and he was pleased like the car drove around the track....unless he swiched the TC off....the car was nimble and nearly undrivable...

That is the GTO in FM4.....It is terrifying in a digital way...you accelerate to 200km/h, brake to a corner, the car gets light in the back and it is hard to place the car in the first place. In the corner then you really have to work to hold the line and the car in control. And if you lose your backend it is really hard to catch it with countersteering.

FM3: You drive too fast, the back kicks out, you countersteer, eerything is fine....

FM4: You drive too fast, the back kicks out, you countersteer, the car grips again and throws itself just the other way into the barrier... it is like the weight also comes more out here. So you have to be really careful with the steering.

I am just stunned and want to play it right now on my BOX:)
Click to expand...
 
S

sneaky77

Member
kaskade said:
Is the Mad Catz wheel taking the place of the discontinued official one? I like the thrustmaster one but the lack of force feedback kind of sucks. I'd like to get a wheel but I don't want to spend a crazy amount of money.
Click to expand...

looks like the Mad Catz will be the cheapest force feedback wheel, although the video they released it makes it feel like the build quality will be somewhat decent

edit: Wheel stuff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rwHE2lkC5g
http://www.madcatz.com/wheel although i think they said price would be around $230

edit: awesome impressions.
 
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