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djplaeskool · Mar 21, 2013

i-Lo said:
Yep, this is the game where hitomi tanaka has been transformed into a ginger witch.

Twitch bans incoming.
:lol

2+2=5 · Mar 21, 2013

sleepykyo said:
The hat channels magic. Metal armor interferes with spell casting.

Zatanna then?

Wow i didn't know that the hat has a real function lol.
No need for metal armor, but at least some protection like a leather armor or something like that.
Realistically why that elegant(and modern) suite? If she has to go on battle, other than a protection, she should dress something more comfortable and cheap.

Data West · Mar 21, 2013

so boob witch has a huge chest but no one notices that fighter kind of has a huge chest too?

i-Lo · Mar 21, 2013

djplaeskool said:
Twitch bans incoming.
:lol

huh? Did I say something offensive?

QisTopTier · Mar 21, 2013

i-Lo said:
huh? Did I say something offensive?

There was a twitch.tv streamer who got banned for streaming hitomi tanaka softcore stuff

Uthred · Mar 21, 2013

2+2=5 said:
Realistically shouldn't she wear some sort of protection? and what's the use of that hat?

Setting aside the fact that we all know its fantasy, even within the fictional universe of the game its not necessarily "Realistic" to assume she should wear some sort of protection. We dont know a lot about the world but theres plenty of reasons that she may not need to (e.g. maybe it intereferes with spellcasting, maybe spellcasters have default defence magics that negate the need for armour, maybe the things she fights are so badass that only the mightiest of armours make a difference, etc.) of course theres equally plenty of reasons she should wear armour. The "Real" reason she isnt is most likely because if all of the characters were wearing similar attire then they wouldnt be as visually distinct. That was a bit rambly, in short, my point was just that you cant talk about "realism" in a fantasy world based on the assumption that it functions like our own (unless thats been explicitly spelled out).

Karsticles · Mar 21, 2013

duckroll said:
I'm not a big fan of the huge boobs either. But honestly, if I had -my- way the Sorc would have glasses, slightly smaller breasts with cleavage showing through a robe which looks more like a business suit, and she'll have stockings on those amazing legs. So ultimately I think it's down to a preference on fetishes.

Respect to you sir!

Black Door said:
I think you just described the teacher from GrimGrimoire

I need to get around to this one!

thumb said:
Then allow me to help you understand:

The women we are seeing here are the handiwork of artists. Every line and color reflects the intent of the artists or designers, not the bodily development (or body modification) of actual women. I'm not embarrassed by the latter, because it reflects the personified development or intent of the person in question.

But when artists attach gigantic, undulating tits to their video game characters, there is a sense that they are not attempting to simply represent one slice of humanity, they are just trying to awkwardly sell copies with titillation. You may disagree, but hopefully this helps you understand.

Also, I want to again state that I am not really "offended". That word should be replaced with "embarrassed", for the reasons given above.

So only "average" women deserve artistic representation, and women with larger assets are offensive when represented? Gotcha.

George Kamitani is not trying to sell games with the Sorceress. The man is a self-confessed pervert. He is drawing what he likes just like any other good artist does. When Kamitani showed this to his wife, she said "Oh my, is that what you have been up in your room drawing all this time?"

You think it's sensationalism, Kamitani thinks it's hot. I think it's hot. If you want boobs meant to sell games, look at Lara Croft. Kamitani just does what he likes, and he loves huge boobs. All of his games have huge boobs. I appreciate his love of them.

UrbanRats · Mar 21, 2013

thumb said:
Then allow me to help you understand:

The women we are seeing here are the handiwork of artists. Every line and color reflects the intent of the artists or designers, not the bodily development (or body modification) of actual women. I'm not embarrassed by the latter, because it reflects the personified development or intent of the person in question.

But when artists attach gigantic, undulating tits to their video game characters, there is a sense that they are not attempting to simply represent one slice of humanity, they are just trying to awkwardly sell copies with titillation. You may disagree, but hopefully this helps you understand.

Also, I want to again state that I am not really "offended". That word should be replaced with "embarrassed", for the reasons given above.

They aren't and they shouldn't.
This is not telling the story about human beings, this is an iconic, exaggerated, borderline satirical representation of the classic fantasy look.
It's representing the idea of a mythical person, not the person itself.

2+2=5 · Mar 21, 2013

Uthred said:
Setting aside the fact that we all know its fantasy, even within the fictional universe of the game its not necessarily "Realistic" to assume she should wear some sort of protection. We dont know a lot about the world but theres plenty of reasons that she may not need to (e.g. maybe it intereferes with spellcasting, maybe spellcasters have default defence magics that negate the need for armour, maybe the things she fights are so badass that only the mightiest of armours make a difference, etc.) of course theres equally plenty of reasons she should wear armour. The "Real" reason she isnt is most likely because if all of the characters were wearing similar attire then they wouldnt be as visually distinct. That was a bit rambly, in short, my point was just that you cant talk about "realism" in a fantasy world based on the assumption that it functions like our own (unless thats been explicitly spelled out).

I'm with you, infact my point basically was that this

is not more realistic than this

~Devil Trigger~ · Mar 21, 2013

Danm

LTTP but, Danm

Crash55118 · Mar 21, 2013

thumb said:
Then allow me to help you understand:

The women we are seeing here are the handiwork of artists. Every line and color reflects the intent of the artists or designers, not the bodily development (or body modification) of actual women. I'm not embarrassed by the latter, because it reflects the personified development or intent of the person in question.

But when artists attach gigantic, undulating tits to their video game characters, there is a sense that they are not attempting to simply represent one slice of humanity, they are just trying to awkwardly sell copies with titillation. You may disagree, but hopefully this helps you understand.

Also, I want to again state that I am not really "offended". That word should be replaced with "embarrassed", for the reasons given above.

Embarrassed in what way? The Industry? Kamitani? Vanillaware? Atlus? Gamers?

Was the reason that Odin Sphere didn't move a million copies because there wasn't gigantic breasts on the cover? Or was it because it was a niche 2D game released in the latter days of the PS2?

Pimpbaa · Mar 21, 2013

Just play another character for fuck sakes. Stop trying to push your sexless agenda on everyone.

Rawket Lawnchair · Mar 21, 2013

I can already say the Sorceress is my favorite character of the six.

thumb · Mar 21, 2013

Karsticles said:
So only "average" women deserve artistic representation, and women with larger assets are offensive when represented? Gotcha.

Part of having a debate is looking for charitable readings of an opponent's argument before looking for uncharitable readings that are almost certainly wrong.

You should ask yourself whether you sincerely think your above statement accurately characterizes what I think. If the answer is "yes" then Im not sure whether we can have this discussion.

Raven77 · Mar 21, 2013

WTF is this?

Please hook 20CC's of this deliciousness right into my veins.

QisTopTier · Mar 21, 2013

thumb said:
Part of having a debate is looking for charitable readings of an opponent's argument before looking for uncharitable readings that are almost certainly wrong.

You should ask yourself whether you sincerely think your above statement accurately characterizes what I think. If the answer is "yes" then Im not sure whether we can have this discussion.

Perhaps you should just say how you feel about it exactly instead of LOOKING for debates.

The fact you said this

Generally, males given large muscles are considered exaggerated but not sexually exaggerated.

Shows you really don't know how people think

Retro_ · Mar 21, 2013

Wow those character idle animations are pretty amazing on the website

Finally Vanillaware doesn't have to resort to basic sprite deformation.

Can't to see this game on my TV. Between this and Jojo August is going to be the definitive month for gaming this year for me.

Himself · Mar 21, 2013

I am so in.

Kuntz · Mar 21, 2013

I'm still pissed grand knights history was cancelled ...

This is promising, don't stab me this time.

thumb · Mar 21, 2013

UrbanRats said:
They aren't and they shouldn't.
This is not telling the story about human beings, this is an iconic, exaggerated, borderline satirical representation of the classic fantasy look.
It's representing the idea of a mythical person, not the person itself.

The term "represent" was poorly chosen in my sentence. I agree that it is not their intent to model humanity, nor should it be. Allow me to amend and clarify.

Vanillaware are using one possible representation of a female form in their art. That representation is intensely sexualized In a way that feels artificial, awkward, and pandering, rather than something that seems to follow from the fiction or character. See prior posts for details.

radios shipping overview · Mar 21, 2013

thumb said:
You're right, I forgot that I needed formal, vested authority to make any inference about authorial intent, even if I couch it as being imperfect (e.g., "there is a sense that").

I am sorry that large breasts in a game cause you feel embarrassed and to think ill of the intentions of its creative staff. I'm sure many people here can suggest other games where breasts are modestly-sized and properly covered.

Wynnebeck · Mar 21, 2013

Man if big tits are setting some of you dudes off, I'd hate to see how you feel if Sorceress also had an ass as huge as Amazon's. There would be a riot lol.

thumb · Mar 21, 2013

QisTopTier said:
Perhaps you should just say how you feel about it exactly instead of LOOKING for debates.

The fact you said this

Shows you really don't know how people think

Then correct me. How do people think? Be sure to elaborate not just on whether I'm wrong in an absolute sense, but whether I'm also wrong in a relative sense. So, is exposed male muscle treated the same way as exposed female breasts? Might there be any truth to what I'm saying?

Soriku · Mar 21, 2013

Wynnebeck said:
Man if big tits are setting some of you dudes off, I'd hate to see how you feel if Sorceress also had an ass as huge as Amazon's. There would be a riot lol.

She has a pretty huge ass. It's just covered

QisTopTier · Mar 21, 2013

thumb said:
So, is exposed male muscle treated the same way as exposed female breasts?

In the minds of people yes. That's all there is to say about it really. If you don't understand this I suggest taking some personal time to go study up on it before trying to start a debate about what people find attractive. ESPECIALLY a common trait

GraveRobberX · Mar 21, 2013

thumb said:
Then correct me. How do people think? Be sure to elaborate not just on whether I'm wrong in an absolute sense, but whether I'm also wrong in a relative sense. So, is exposed male muscle treated the same way as exposed female breasts? Might there be any truth to what I'm saying?

Are you sexually insecure?

Did an Amazon or Sorceress with Big Boobies touch you in the wrong way?

Your debating for debating sakes

Move the fuck on!

Wynnebeck · Mar 21, 2013

Soriku said:
She has a pretty huge ass. It's just covered

Yeah she has a huge ass but Amazon's is ridiculous. If I saw that in real life I would do a double take real talk.

TreIII · Mar 21, 2013

Hahahahaha, this takes me back to the "Bayonetta arguments" all over again.

I mean, seriously, if this aesthetic is not for you, it's just not for you. I don't really care for games using the "Moe" aesthetic, and that's the reason why I don't mess with 95% of games that use it. Pretty simple, I think.

GraveRobberX · Mar 21, 2013

Wynnebeck said:
Yeah she has a huge ass but Amazon's is ridiculous. If I saw that in real life I would do a double take real talk.

C'mon Son

Those Thighs!

I want to get crushed in between them >.>;

Sushigod7 · Mar 21, 2013

thumb said:
The term "represent" was poorly chosen in my sentence. I agree that it is not their intent to model humanity, nor should it be. Allow me to amend and clarify.

Vanillaware are using one possible representation of a female form in their art. That representation is intensely sexualized In a way that feels artificial, awkward, and pandering, rather than something that seems to follow from the fiction or character. See prior posts for details.

Are you trying to change our minds? Who exactly are you trying to have a debate with here for pages now your just rehashing the same stuff we get it you don't agree with the art direction most of us dig it end of story thank you for your input. Don't worry about us here in the thread we don't need saving. Your like a dude who show's up in the middle of a lesbian porn, such buzz kill.

Wynnebeck · Mar 21, 2013

GraveRobberX said:
C'mon Son

Those Thighs!

I want to get crushed in between them >.>;

Sorceress = life

Amazon = hometown

I'm going with hometown this time lol.

QisTopTier · Mar 21, 2013

I personally like the archer the most, she has a pretty feel to her or something.

Not sure who I'm going to play first though, it's a toss up between Dwarf/Wizard/Archer

AlucardGV · Mar 21, 2013

nice trailer, i'll probably buy the ps3 version

jiggle · Mar 21, 2013

Apostate said:
I can already say the Sorceress is my favorite character of the six.

there are 5 other characters? @.@

EatChildren · Mar 21, 2013

Hatin' on the boobs is so silly. Dragon's Crown has such an immensely powerful and instantly recognisable art style. Women or men, everything is drawn under the mantra of strong and sexy. The dark, soft colour palette, the deliberately exaggerated muscles and proportions, voluptuous curves, etc. The way the Elf's boots and hood seem that little bit too big for her body, just like her bow. The long, golden blonde, flowing locks of the totally fucking ripped Amazon, where traditional womanly physique blend seamlessly into intense muscle tone. The flame-like pattered beard of the dwarf. The lustful curves of the sorceress, her classic sexiness wonderfully symbolic in her ability to control the dead.

Knux-Future · Mar 21, 2013

Everybody in this game looks ridiculous.

and that's A-OK with me.

The artist is consistent with this too. It's his style.

so why the faux outrage?

GraveRobberX · Mar 21, 2013

Sushigod7 said:
Your like a dude who show's up in the middle of a lesbian porn, such buzz kill.

HAHA!

"Hey you two are enjoying yourselves, but wouldn't it better if you wore those stockings"

"No, Fuck Off"

"Come on I like stockings, in the real world stockings can be very sexual and powerful"

"No!, Fuck Off"

*munch* *munch* *munch*

"Listen I'm trying to have a debate why it would better for you, I deserve my qualms to be heard"

"STFU!", *69 Position*

EatChildren said:
Hatin' on the boobs is so silly. Dragon's Crown has such an immensely powerful and instantly recognisable art style. Women or men, everything is drawn under the mantra of strong and sexy. The dark, soft colour palette, the deliberately exaggerated muscles and proportions, voluptuous curves, etc. The way the Elf's boots and hood seem that little bit too big for her body, just like her bow. The long, golden blonde, flowing locks of the totally fucking ripped Amazon, where traditional womanly physique blend seamlessly into intense muscle tone. The flame-like pattered beard of the dwarf. The lustful curves of the sorceress, her classic sexiness wonderfully symbolic in her ability to control the dead.

More, More

I need you to deconstruct and detail it more

I like where you are heading with this sir!

UrbanRats · Mar 21, 2013

thumb said:
The term "represent" was poorly chosen in my sentence. I agree that it is not their intent to model humanity, nor should it be. Allow me to amend and clarify.

Vanillaware are using one possible representation of a female form in their art. That representation is intensely sexualized In a way that feels artificial, awkward, and pandering, rather than something that seems to follow from the fiction or character. See prior posts for details.

I agree with the bolded part, not much with the rest.
It is sexualized, it doesn't feel artificially added to pander, since it perfectly fits the overblown and absurdly over the top nature of the game to a T.
It plays on creating an absurd and extreme version of the fantasy trope and stereotype, without necessarily looking down to it, like most satire does, but still with a fun and self conscious tone.
The proportions in an artwork like this:

Should tell you something beyond the "Ah, she's in a bikini, she undermines women!".
The deformation, absurd muscle mass, tiny head, it exaggerates the idea of the female barbarian to a.. grotesque point, at which the image goes beyond bland titillation and embraces its concept more deeply and, as i said, self consciously.

It doesn't come off as a stylistic decision taken around a marketing board (whether it is or not) and more like a perfectly sound style choice, that falls into place with all the other absurd magnifications of the classic Fantasy tropes the game uses (look at the knight's and the dwarf's proportions, too) for characters and monsters.
--
I also think that going with the "but the dude is naked, sexy and muscular too!" angle is also misguided and stupid, as a defense for this style, btw.

Wynnebeck · Mar 21, 2013

GraveRobberX said:
HAHAHAHAHAHA!

"Hey you two are enjoying yourselves, but wouldn't it better if you wore those stockings"

"No, Fuck Off"

"Come on I like stockings, in the real world stockings can be very sexual and powerful"

"No!, Fuck Off"

*munch* *munch* *munch*

"Listen I'm trying to have a debate why it would better for you, I deserve my qualms be heard"

"STFU!", *69 Position*

#dead

sleepykyo · Mar 21, 2013

thumb said:
The term "represent" was poorly chosen in my sentence. I agree that it is not their intent to model humanity, nor should it be. Allow me to amend and clarify.

Vanillaware are using one possible representation of a female form in their art. That representation is intensely sexualized In a way that feels artificial, awkward, and pandering, rather than something that seems to follow from the fiction or character. See prior posts for details.

You're completely right. Fortunately the elf has less exaggerated curves.

edit: Will be playing as Sorceress if purchase.

WhyMe6 · Mar 21, 2013

EatChildren said:
Hatin' on the boobs is so silly. Dragon's Crown has such an immensely powerful and instantly recognisable art style. Women or men, everything is drawn under the mantra of strong and sexy. The dark, soft colour palette, the deliberately exaggerated muscles and proportions, voluptuous curves, etc. The way the Elf's boots and hood seem that little bit too big for her body, just like her bow. The long, golden blonde, flowing locks of the totally fucking ripped Amazon, where traditional womanly physique blend seamlessly into intense muscle tone. The flame-like pattered beard of the dwarf. The lustful curves of the sorceress, her classic sexiness wonderfully symbolic in her ability to control the dead.

Yes, this a thousand times over. It's that strong and sexy style of swords and sorcery, ala Conan the Barbarian (1982). It's an awesome subgenre.

Sushigod7 · Mar 21, 2013

I've watched the trailer so many times I hope we get some other type of art book/making of. Vanillaware just needs to publish a art of book covering all their games.

Polishin8r · Mar 21, 2013

when is this coming to USA ?

Sushigod7 · Mar 21, 2013

Polishin8r said:
when is this coming to USA ?

When you import it day 1 buddy get ready.

edit: Which is July 25th

CoconutTank · Mar 21, 2013

This is the game I've been most excited for when it comes to PS Vita

Looking forward to whenever it comes out!

Hoping that Gwendolyn and Oswald will make an appearance, just because

Retro_ · Mar 21, 2013

Polishin8r said:
when is this coming to USA ?

Rumors say August

SolidSnakex · Mar 21, 2013

Polishin8r said:
when is this coming to USA ?

August 6th if Gamestop is correct.

I decided to grab the character art from the official site

chrono01 · Mar 21, 2013

EatChildren said:
Hatin' on the boobs is so silly. Dragon's Crown has such an immensely powerful and instantly recognisable art style. Women or men, everything is drawn under the mantra of strong and sexy. The dark, soft colour palette, the deliberately exaggerated muscles and proportions, voluptuous curves, etc. The way the Elf's boots and hood seem that little bit too big for her body, just like her bow. The long, golden blonde, flowing locks of the totally fucking ripped Amazon, where traditional womanly physique blend seamlessly into intense muscle tone. The flame-like pattered beard of the dwarf. The lustful curves of the sorceress, her classic sexiness wonderfully symbolic in her ability to control the dead.

Exactly this!

Thank you for putting into words what I could not.

Also, to those that have a seething hatred for the artstyle used:

suzu · Mar 21, 2013

The character designs in Vanillaware games haven't ever bothered me before. I mean, most of the characters (female, male, monsters..) are varied and super exaggerated to some extent. I feel the same way about this game as I do with Bayonetta's design (like it feels like it's suppose to be a bit silly and weird). But yeah, the sorceress's boobs are crazy huge. lol

Black Door · Mar 21, 2013

SolidSnakex said:
August 6th if Gamestop is correct.

I decided to grab the character art from the official site

*snip*

I noticed that each character shot shows them with a different weapon. Reviving the SoM idea of giving P1/P2 different character sheets?

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