GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Don't believe everything you read.
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VGLeaks: First look as Durango XDK (always connected, kinect required, must install)
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
Don't believe everything you read.
Baconsammy
Banned
Haiku gone horribly wrong?
Oh wow, improved skeletal tracking by actually tracking your...skeleton!
A+ lol
Quick question.
One of the earlier leaks mentioned a change to the controller. What do you guys think they will change
You're not? Seriously?
Then why you're actively participating in every single next gen thread, even creating some, or why you post on B3D?
And respectfully, but your stance on most rumors particularly the ones concerning Durango and how it might be weaker than the PS4 certainly led me to believe that you're invested in this.
There is nothing wrong with that.
Maybe I just choose the wrong word, english is not my first language. I didn't mean that in any bad way.
Edit:
Sorry, didn't seen your edit. Well, I wouldn't say I'm invested in your posts, I just find your behavior on next gen threads very amusing.
It's hard not to notice you considering how much you participate, and yet you're not invested on next gen at all.
09/21/2012:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=42380331&postcount=158
StevieP said:
07/29/2012:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=40407685&postcount=591
StevieP said:
Same thread:
StevieP said:
07/23/2012:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=40160674&highlight=#post40160674
StevieP said:
07/06/12:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=39576346&highlight=#post39576346
StevieP said:
06/27/12
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=39304637&postcount=1670
StevieP said:
06/18/12
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=39020036&postcount=2957
StevieP said:
06/15/12
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=38912937&highlight=#post38912937
StevieP said:
06/11/2012
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38781672&postcount=240
StevieP in an edited-back-and-forth said:
Yes, please read my tag. No, I do not work in the industry but please note the dates there. However, using tags to dismiss ANYONE'S opinion on this forum isn't prudent. That includes those that are tagged "junior".
They won't, it must be lost in translation that rumour, there is no way Microsoft would be willing to potentialy lose out on so many people, especially as only half of 360 owners even have/use LIVE and i guess even less have a Gold account.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
What confuses me is why exactly people think that just because the Durango GPU is 1.2TFLOPS, that it must mean there won't be more than enough amazing games for hardcore gamers to enjoy, and that those games somehow won't or can't look amazing?
The PS4's GPU being stronger and the console having 8GB of GDDR5 to Durango's 8GB of DDR3 doesn't automatically make it the better or defacto console for gamers, nor does it ensure that games on PS4 will all be better and more entertaining than they are on the next xbox. Do people still recall how amazing Halo 4 looks on practically close to 8 year old hardware? Can you imagine what 343i might do with the next Xbox's specs as we know them? These specs are in no way a detriment to unbelievable looking next generation hardcore titles.
It's so silly watching people eat up this competitive nonsense between the consoles. It's alright for discussion and it's exciting, I'll admit that, but there are people literally buying into this notion that the next xbox is doomed based on its specs not being better positioned against or better than the PS4's specs. Why does it even matter? If you want whichever console you think has the better specs, then your mind should already be made up, should it not? PS4 all the way! Why pay the Xbox any mind at all if people are so assured that it's going to be some weak Kinect machine that has next to no worthwhile games?
I think people forget way too often what's most important. People whine about wanting new and different experiences, and Microsoft seems to be positioning their new console around that very idea with Kinect clearly at the helm, and perhaps because of that they went for a more conservative set of raw specifications, but this doesn't somehow mean the controller is dead. Microsoft would never be stupid enough to release a console that abandons the traditional controller solely for Kinect. They know that most of the next Xbox's games will be played primarily with the controller. Rather than fight some spec war I'm sure they are aware they aren't exactly ahead on if their rumored specs are accurate, they've decided that the fight on software, features and services is much more important, and, guess what, they are right.
You want to know what impresses me most about the PS4? It wasn't the fancy specs; it was Sony's software features and services. It was what they are bringing to the overall experience of hardcore gaming. We know these consoles will have great games and exclusives. Isn't that always a given? I have no reason to condemn what Microsoft is doing with the new xbox until I actually see it.
The PS4's GPU being stronger and the console having 8GB of GDDR5 to Durango's 8GB of DDR3 doesn't automatically make it the better or defacto console for gamers, nor does it ensure that games on PS4 will all be better and more entertaining than they are on the next xbox. Do people still recall how amazing Halo 4 looks on practically close to 8 year old hardware? Can you imagine what 343i might do with the next Xbox's specs as we know them? These specs are in no way a detriment to unbelievable looking next generation hardcore titles.
It's so silly watching people eat up this competitive nonsense between the consoles. It's alright for discussion and it's exciting, I'll admit that, but there are people literally buying into this notion that the next xbox is doomed based on its specs not being better positioned against or better than the PS4's specs. Why does it even matter? If you want whichever console you think has the better specs, then your mind should already be made up, should it not? PS4 all the way! Why pay the Xbox any mind at all if people are so assured that it's going to be some weak Kinect machine that has next to no worthwhile games?
I think people forget way too often what's most important. People whine about wanting new and different experiences, and Microsoft seems to be positioning their new console around that very idea with Kinect clearly at the helm, and perhaps because of that they went for a more conservative set of raw specifications, but this doesn't somehow mean the controller is dead. Microsoft would never be stupid enough to release a console that abandons the traditional controller solely for Kinect. They know that most of the next Xbox's games will be played primarily with the controller. Rather than fight some spec war I'm sure they are aware they aren't exactly ahead on if their rumored specs are accurate, they've decided that the fight on software, features and services is much more important, and, guess what, they are right.
You want to know what impresses me most about the PS4? It wasn't the fancy specs; it was Sony's software features and services. It was what they are bringing to the overall experience of hardcore gaming. We know these consoles will have great games and exclusives. Isn't that always a given? I have no reason to condemn what Microsoft is doing with the new xbox until I actually see it.
Do you believe the specs we currently have (1.2TF GPU, 8 GBs DDR3, 8 core Jaguar, Kinect in every box) are still accurate to this day?
I don't think you will be able to play any next gen console without a camera connected to it
Wii U camera is on the controller , PS4 Camera is needed for tracking the controller & Xbox 3 will have Kinect for whatever reason that it's going to be needed in games.
This poster has the right idea.
The only types of things that change this late in the game (i.e. a month or 2 before final silicon starts getting sent for manufacture) are processor clock rates, memory amounts/clocks rates. And even that isn't usual or expected every generation. Those specs that you listed came from paperwork that Microsoft has sent to developers, and long ago. These usually turn out to be quite accurate, with the only things that change being CPU speeds/memory amounts/clock rate, etc.
As an example, here is an excerpt document that Microsoft sent to developers in 2004, long before the 360 launch and before dev kits were anywhere near final silicon:
That's all accurate, as far as I recall (including FSB rates, GPU clocks, etc). What changed from that document was the CPU clock rate (they wanted 4GHz, they got less) and memory amount and clock rate (256mb/800mhz in that doc instead of 512mb/700mhz retail).
Because gaming is not the central purpose of those devices. I have a few simple games on my Iphone, and it's because sometimes I just want something to pass the time on an airplane or something.
That doesn't mean for a second I don't care about the graphics my dedicated gaming consoles / PC pump out.
I'm not using your tag to dismiss your opinions. Your post consisted of three words: YES, NO and YES. Why not go a bit deeper with your post when you are dismissing other posts?
Do you believe the PS4 controller is going to be tracked at all times?
I thought that was just a feature available to developers and wasn't going to be enforced in any way. I was thinking you would not need the PSeye to turn your PS4 on.
This whole 'phones and i-pads are taking over gaming' argument always makes me chuckle, i mean can you imagine any hardcore gamers giving up on their GTA's, Halo's and COD's etc to go play some 5 minute games on their phones?, i can't even imagine many casual gamers doing that long term, the gimmick nature of gaming on phones and tablets will wear off eventually imo.
Plus i can't imagine many developers who have these visions of developing these huge blockbuster games and experiences getting the same satisfaction out of developing throw away games for pads and phones, i just can't lol.
Tripolygon
Banned
But Microsoft could be playing bait and switch because they have 2 or maybe 3 Chip designs going concurrently.
sarcasm
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Sadly, you're wasting your breath, but everything will be clear soon enough. I'm sure a year or two from now we'll look at these discussions and laugh, as we so often do when it comes to GAF and predictions, and then we'll forget all about it so we can make the same silly mistakes all over again.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
The next Xbox and PS4 will both be well served in the power department, but even if they weren't going to be as powerful as they are, I'm still among the camp of folks that refuses to just dismiss the Wii-U. A new Xenoblade is coming out on it, which means it will be mine one way or the other, and just because the Wii-U may not be as powerful, it doesn't mean that games on the Wii-U won't or can't look beautiful all the same. Good art and solid overall design in a game goes a very long way. Powerful specs alone are no guarantee to offer a game that can be considered to look amazing.
I'm certain there will be a nice set of games that I likely can't get on my ps4 or next xbox, and so, really, I go into console generations generally always hoping for incredible things on all sides, because the better these various consoles do and the better the games that are designed for each, the better it is for us gamers. My specific taste in games makes it nearly impossible for me to get by on a single machine, and it's always been like that for me. I was one of those people for which those awesome N64wrestling games alone made it absolutely necessary for me to own an N64 in addition to my PS1.
In many ways I'm certain that I am, but it still had to be said, I think.
Sadly your logic and reasoning will mostly be ignore here at GAF.
Kinect as a required attachment is a huge turn off to many even though there's no sign that we'll be required to use it with navigation or even gameplay. That's a perfect example to how something that could be irrelevant is potentially a major issue here.
The specs matter to me since I don't have much investment in 1st party titles. I love them like any other gamer, but I don't love them any more than 3rd party titles, which I play more of. So in this respect, specs matter to me since the better specced machine is likely to have the better 3rd party version multi-platform titles. I'm sure the KZs and Halos will look gorgeous on their respective systems.
That said, IMO it looks like MS is purposely trying to be the PS2 of the next generation. Providing a system that's "good enough" with providing a decent performance leap, capable at handling multi-platform titles without specs being a major bottleneck, but not concerning themselves with providing the best version possible for the additional cost that it would take. The vast majority of gamers didn't care last gen that most 3rd party titles looked and ran better on the xbox, just like many gamers didn't care that most 3rd party titles looked and/or ran better on the 360 this gen. So it seems like MS is banking on this ignorance to show through again next gen and hope the majority of gamers don't care about the minor differences between the PS4 and Durango. If any of this is true, I think it's amusing that many of the people here so quick to dismiss Durango may also be the same people who think the PS2 is one of the best systems in history, regardless of the specs.
MS are making a gamble and it may or may not pay off for them. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Great post. I would add the reasons for why people choose to do the above is so they can feel more confident in their decision. Most people don't want to or can't afford to both machines, certainly at launch, so any perceived weakness will be pounced upon and constantly brought up in any discussion so it makes their decision that little bit better, etc.
It won't stop, it's only going to get worse if the launcu of the last generation is anything do by. We're only experiencing the opening act in a very long and annoying performance.
It's currently specs, it will move to games, it will then move to exclusive games, then to services and finally price.
We've been here before, the exact same arguments are playing out in the exact same way. Numbers are being banded about, consoles are being called weak, console X won't stand a chance against the powerhouse console Y, etc, etc, etc.
There hasn't been a dedicated gaming console since the Gamecube they are all multi-media entertainment systems now. which has been Sony & Microsoft's plan from the beginning. it's all about getting their store front into the living room this is the reason that PS3 & Xbox 360 isn't going anywhere anytime soon even after the new consoles are released.
Video Games was just Sony & Microsoft's Trojan Horse into the living room, Apple\Google just happened to skip over the living room & went right into people's pockets with the iDevices & Android while Sony & Microsoft was fighting for the TV.
The portable devices are taking a lot of time away from the TV's so a big focus of Next Gen is going to be connecting with the portable devices & making sure that they can keep you in their ecosystem.
if games like Angry Bird & Temple Run is what's getting people's attention nowadays then that's what Sony & MS is going to want on their system to keep people attached to their ecosystem but at the same time they don't want to leave the hardcore market open for someone else to run with.
Punkster_NY
Member
Yeah....that's why most gamers buy gaming consoles, not for the games but for the services.
Alx
Member
Games are software. That was his point actually : what really matters in the end isn't the hardware specs, but what you'll be doing with them. A.k.a. software, features and services.
alexandros
Banned
Microsoft are fighting a war on multiple fronts for the future of computing in general. The Xbox is just one of their weapons and they will use it in the way that it makes the most sense with the bigger picture in mind. The vast majority of the mainstream market doesn't care if a game runs a bit better on one console. They are drawn to services and gimmicks.
The Xbox is the trojan horse that advances Microsoft's plans for the living room. They will shape it so as to be an asset in the war against Apple and Google. For gaming it just has to be "good enough", specs don't win console battles.
ChosenPredator
Banned
The next Xbox and PS4 will both be well served in the power department, but even if they weren't going to be as powerful as they are, I'm still among the camp of folks that refuses to just dismiss the Wii-U. A new Xenoblade is coming out on it, which means it will be mine one way or the other, and just because the Wii-U may not be as powerful, it doesn't mean that games on the Wii-U won't or can't look beautiful all the same. Good art and solid overall design in a game goes a very long way. Powerful specs alone are no guarantee to offer a game that can be considered to look amazing.
I'm certain there will be a nice set of games that I likely can't get on my ps4 or next xbox, and so, really, I go into console generations generally always hoping for incredible things on all sides, because the better these various consoles do and the better the games that are designed for each, the better it is for us gamers. My specific taste in games makes it nearly impossible for me to get by on a single machine, and it's always been like that for me. I was one of those people for which those awesome N64wrestling games alone made it absolutely necessary for me to own an N64 in addition to my PS1.
In many ways I'm certain that I am, but it still had to be said, I think.
would be great if more people thought in this way
Omnistalgic
Member
This line of reasoning of becoming the "PS2" of next-generation is a little flawed. When Sony released PS2, it looked superior to Dreamcast, and it was at the top tech wise until over a year later when GC/Xbox outclassed it. So MS can't be aiming to be PS2 if they are releasing a lower spec platform than PS4. If it is lower spec it'll likely be because Kinect is bundled and they want to keep price down, and it still shouldn't be a dramatic difference in power with the consoles launching so close to each other. Just wanted to clear that up, PS2 looked f'n sick when it came out with DOA2/Tekken Tag and that trailer for MGS2 OMG!!! MEtal gear Solid 2...
erm...what else, yeah, good post in here. Specs--Games--Exclusive--Services--Price sound about right where the arguments will go. But maturity has died on forums, so...meh we'll have to deal with E-penis contest.
I think a Kinect controlled OS experience will be very cool, and really can't wait to see what MS does. So far still PS4/WiiU only though, not impressed with the one things that matters, Games. MS need to step up there exclusive titles, for me anyway, there's but so many Halo/Gears I want to play, but Forza is still Ace!
erm...what else, yeah, good post in here. Specs--Games--Exclusive--Services--Price sound about right where the arguments will go. But maturity has died on forums, so...meh we'll have to deal with E-penis contest.
I think a Kinect controlled OS experience will be very cool, and really can't wait to see what MS does. So far still PS4/WiiU only though, not impressed with the one things that matters, Games. MS need to step up there exclusive titles, for me anyway, there's but so many Halo/Gears I want to play, but Forza is still Ace!
Before the PS2 launched here, we knew the GC and Xbox were coming out as well and likely more powerful than the PS2. Just because the Ps2 was more powerful than the DC doesn't mean we didn't know it would be underpowered compared to the competition prior to release.
Also, you're right, the difference in specs is probably to allow Kinect in every SKU without breaking the BOM bank. That doesn't make what I said any less relevant. They knew Durango could be underpowered if they dedicated a piece of the BOM to Kinect but they went with that plan anyways because they saw how inferior ports didn't effect the PS2 or PS3.
Punkster_NY
Member
no point in arguing about this now I'll just wait until MS debuts its hardware and we get a chance to see these awesome new services.
iceatcs
Junior Member
I'm not to call out but I would like to know where were you around that time. I would like to see some classics forum or something like that. Classic troll post etc... To see how the internet world has changed.
That time, I was totally PC gaming in all PS2 era.
Old Gaming age forum, is hardy to track.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Since you are a fan of logic, it seems the Wii U is the PS2 in your scenario. The PS4 and 720 are the GC and Xbox. But you are not using logic, you are just picking a scenario where the weaker system dominated and are wedging future consoles into said scenario.
Most reasonable post I've read in a while on these forums. You should be upped to member status ASAP.
As some other (level-headed posters) have stated though, you are speaking to very few who are open minded in that fashion.
The months leading up to major console releases are always ugly on forums. Reason/logic is thrown out the window since people would rather jump to conclusions based on rumors and battle it out in "console warz".
Miles Quaritch
Member
You're discounting a various number of factors, not least the momentum factor. This is one of the more important factors in selling your new console, the others being price and games.
PS2 had incredible momentum from PS1, PS3 had incredible momentum from PS2 but that momentum stalled due to the obscenely high price (for the time) and there being a console that offered a somewhat similar experience for £100 less.
What scares me of the next Xbox aren't the specs, absolutely. I know they should be well enough for the next gen, the usual jump from a gen to another. What really scare me are things like always online and no used games, and what kind of offering MS first party could have, as well as the rumours about a very close DD environment. Always connected and no used games allowed and close DD space should be the two things that make people think a lot about getting the next Xbox if true, certainly not the power.
Baconsammy
Banned
My Wii was always online. The only damage that did was frying the graphics chip. But once they sorted that design flaw out, it was never a problem.
I mean always connected in the way Edge explained, i.e. you need to be always online to play any game.
Baconsammy
Banned
I refuse to believe they're that stupid. If they are, good luck to them. They'll need it.
I hope for them they aren't that stupid: they'd lose most of the European market and quite a big part of the potential American market istantly. It'd be a sort of N64 part second. Unfortunately for them, Edge rumours on PS4 were absolutely spot on.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Indeed. I believe it simply means that the preferred set up for the console is for it be always online, always connected so they can deliver content, patches whilst the console is in a sleep/powered down state.
Not at all times but the devs are going to need to know that everyone who has a PS4 can use the feature if they decide to add it to the game.
So if the Next Call of Duty comes on the PS4 & Xbox3 Head Tracking can be standard in the game & using the controller to push someone off you or hit them with the gun when they are too close to shoot. knowing that the camera is there means the devs can take advantage of it without worrying if some players don't have it.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
True. However, if you replace PS2 with Nintendo DS, the point still stands.
Insane Metal
Member
It's not the hardcore gamers jumping onto smartphones and tablets... It's everyone else! Everyone else is discovering that they don't need a fancy computer or console to play games or surf the internet when they can instead do it on their tablet or smartphone. The cellphone is pretty much a device everyone has to have at this point and you can get a free Android smartphone with a two-year contract.
Even I have a cellphone at this point and I'm generally the most anti-phone person I know. I also have an Android tablet. However, since I actually like the PC and don't like using portable devices, I'll probably continue using a pure PC as long as I can and only switch to a nice tablet only when market realities dictate it... and even then, I'd just use the tablet as if it were a PC. Unlike most of you, I actually did have a touchscreen PC back in 2002 and almost never used the touch features that it had, so I actually have some reason to not return to having a touchscreen on my PC again.
As for consoles, I will probably continue buying them even if I stopped being a serious gamer because of the fact that they play DVDs and Blu-Rays and will continue to have streaming services on them.
Marty Chinn
Member
So many people fail to grasp this so I just had to bold it.
Can Crusher
Banned
I think the whole deal about specs is that they sort of serve as a letter of intent. Same goes for OS memory reservations, requirement of an add on that doesn't fundamentally change the content, pay walls and types of video games being produced for the system.
It's not that the gamers more invested in consoles, which make a huge chunk of gaming side btw, only care about the specs. Sure fanboys will always pull a high five if the specs are better, but the problem is that overall the leaks and the rumors point to a system that isn't designed with them 1st. And that has been the whole point of consoles thus far, gamers first.
If Sony came out with a PS4 that wasn't being built for gamers first, it would get the same reaction.
The whole picture isn't about pixel counting, it's about the concept itself and the compromises made.
It's not that the gamers more invested in consoles, which make a huge chunk of gaming side btw, only care about the specs. Sure fanboys will always pull a high five if the specs are better, but the problem is that overall the leaks and the rumors point to a system that isn't designed with them 1st. And that has been the whole point of consoles thus far, gamers first.
If Sony came out with a PS4 that wasn't being built for gamers first, it would get the same reaction.
The whole picture isn't about pixel counting, it's about the concept itself and the compromises made.
CreateNowSleepLater
Member
Make another shitty Halo game?
shinra-bansho
Member
I believe the tag is meant to be ironic, or so I'm told.
