Stoney Mason
Banned
Tiktaalik said:
Why?
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Should The Orange Box Really Be A Candidate For GOTY?
- Thread starter Edag Plata
- Start date
Why?
Edag Plata
Banned
Tiktaalik said:
That's a really really good point. It also goes along with the thought of if games are rated as games or art or as how good of a product they are.
King of Cups
Member
Slavik81 said:
Does not compute. None of those are or have been available separately as in the case of Orange Box. They were conceived and developed as a single game title, not a compilation of a developer's previous and newly self-contained game elements.
Of course, all IMO. I just think each individual game (HL2:EP2, Portal, and TF2 ONLY) should stand on it's own. Deal of the Year confirmed, though.
MWS Natural
Member
OliveJuice said:
I concur.
Stoney Mason
Banned
Tiktaalik said:
But I could argue if a person liked any one single element of the 5 parts a great deal they might vote for it. I think people just take the parts they like and ignore the rest. The same way you might evaluate a game. I don't like COD 4 single player as much as most but I love the multiplayer enough to give it a shot at GOTY.
Livin_Lovin
Member
I think the question should really be posed at the PC release of these games. There, you could at least buy them separately.
Edag Plata
Banned
Livin_Lovin said:
Yeah, but they're still separate games, so why do all of them count as one for one award?
Why are you guys looking at this from a commercial perspective? As far as I know, it is still the Game of the Year award and not Product of the Year. It doesn't matter that this is the only way you could get it on the consoles; it's not fair to compare, say, Galaxy or Halo 3 which had one team of developers working X years to complete 1 work to 3 teams of developers working x years to complete 3 works.
Slavik81 said:
Short answer: Orange Box != Grindhouse.
Long answer: There's a big difference between a work that was conceived as an anthology from the very beginning and slapping a bunch of games from the same company in a single box. Show me the interview where Valve reveals they conceived the Orange Box concept first, then developed the games in it to be parts of this planned anthology story, and you might be onto something. But you can't, because they didn't.
BudokaiMR2
Member
What the hell is with this.
It's a bunch of games on a disc. One disc. It comes in a package. I can plug up my 360 controller and play them and have a fucking blast.
Of course it is in the running.
It's a bunch of games on a disc. One disc. It comes in a package. I can plug up my 360 controller and play them and have a fucking blast.
Of course it is in the running.
Edag Plata
Banned
BudokaiMR2 said:
Why does the fact that it's on one disc mean anything? Does that mean something like FFVII or RE4 can take multiple spots on a GOTY list because its on multiple discs?
Tellaerin said:
If it was supposed to be an anthology, HL and its expansions would be in it, and TF2 wouldn't since it has nothing to do with the HL universe.
Gabe actually wanted to make a package like this for a while before Orange Box was announced. He said that episodic gaming can't really take off until you show people an incredibly awesome deal and beat them over the head with it.
Seriously, I get the feeling that the reason why people bitch about this is because people want Mario or something to win and are just trying to come up with some reason to discredit it.
For the record, TF2 is my GOTY.
Edag Plata
Banned
Fredescu said:
Because the point that everyone makes is that because its 5 games, thats what makes it even more amazing. It's like saying Super Mario Galaxy should have had Mario 64, Super Mario World, and a couple other new games to even have a chance at competing with Orange Box to win GOTY.
Well Galaxy is even better than Orange Box to start with. Aside from that, Galaxy is longer than EP2 and Portal combined. TF2 you can't put a figure on obviously, but if you want to count experiencing every map once, which you wouldn't because it would be dumb, then Galaxy is probably longer than all three.Edag Plata said:
The Orange Box is just a marketing vehicle so that games like TF2 and Portal, which make sense on Steam, have some way to get onto consoles.
It's a package for the purposes of selling these games that would otherwise be awkward to sell. As I said before, it basically comes down to whether Game of the Year is actually Game of the Year, or whether it's Product of the Year.
It's a package for the purposes of selling these games that would otherwise be awkward to sell. As I said before, it basically comes down to whether Game of the Year is actually Game of the Year, or whether it's Product of the Year.
Doytch said:
I just feel that if you're handing out awards for Game of the Year, you should be comparing the merits of individual games to one another, not treating a collection as a single creative work. If the work in question was conceived that way from the outset (like Grindhouse, which is an homage to the B-movie double feature - that's why the 'two-movies-as-a-single-work' thing works in that case) it's another story, but the Orange Box is just a collection of related works. If someone declared Portal or TF2 GOTY and recommended that gamers ought to pick up the Orange Box for those games, I'm fine with that. It shouldn't be treated as a single thing, though.
Designs change during and after development. It's an arbitrary requirement for things to have been thought of before beginning of the development cycle. Ultimately, whatever they put out is what they decided on.Tellaerin said:
When they released Orange Box, it was them embracing the idea. The time at which they came up with the idea is irrelevant as long as ultimately they decide to stick with the idea. It has it's own conception. Design elements don't 'not count' just because they weren't decided on the instant the concept was thought of.
Actually, it's mostly because Episode 1 was dismissed by retailers when it released for $20. They attached enough additional content to the game to justify a higher price and could keep retailers from tossing it directly in the <$20 bin.Tiktaalik said:
ShmarthurShmooner
Member
it should. maybe we should leave hl2 and ep1 out of the evaluation for goty since they are basically re-releases, but ep2, portal and tf2 are all new, and those 3 in one package = contender for goty.
Joseph Merrick
Member
btw. many games have separate teams for single and multiplayer parts
....also, this thread is dumb.
....also, this thread is dumb.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
Personally? No.
But from "review/news" sites (more like consumer reports)? Sure. Have at it. They're just reporting on products anyhow.
But from "review/news" sites (more like consumer reports)? Sure. Have at it. They're just reporting on products anyhow.
HamPster PamPster
Member
Just let the individual GOTY award givers decide.
I don't give any GOTY awards so I don't care but I'm certainly not going to feel bad if IGN or whoever decides to give GOTY to the orange box over another game. Is it "unfair?" Ehh, maybe. Unfair to other developers but to gamers Orange Box is more then fair and if the developers don't like it... well work harder to earn my $60 instead of taking it for granted. There are more then enough sites / people giving GOTY awards that all the great games this year have a shot
I also don't think its unreasonable to assume that a special collection of Godfather 1-3 released together for the price of a single DVD could win DVD release of the year
I don't give any GOTY awards so I don't care but I'm certainly not going to feel bad if IGN or whoever decides to give GOTY to the orange box over another game. Is it "unfair?" Ehh, maybe. Unfair to other developers but to gamers Orange Box is more then fair and if the developers don't like it... well work harder to earn my $60 instead of taking it for granted. There are more then enough sites / people giving GOTY awards that all the great games this year have a shot
I also don't think its unreasonable to assume that a special collection of Godfather 1-3 released together for the price of a single DVD could win DVD release of the year
BudokaiMR2
Member
Tellaerin said:
Movies do not equal games. And what if you changed that to DVD of the year? Changes things a bit huh.
You guys are thinking waaaaay too hard about this.
For one thing, It makes sense to have all the half life games together. As others have said just consider TF2 the multiplayer section and Portal a short puzzle game.
Was FFX crossed out because you can play blitzball(Or whatever that crap was called)?
Would you cross out that new PSP Castlevania because it has the original on there too?
It is one game. I got to the store and I buy one package. As far as consumers and gamers are concerned it should definitely be in the running.
i don't think it makes much sense to treat orange box as a single game, but on reflection, portal is my goty. mario galaxy is brilliantly designed, and i played the fuck out of it for a good week -- but it kind of diminishes in memory's perspective. portal is also brilliantly designed, for the one sitting it lasts -- but GLaDOS has kept it going in my head. she works as a kind of unreliable narrator, and her dark humor and bizarre personality shifts make her the best character in gaming. ever, probably. she also has a lovely singing voice.
do character and writing and music really matter in games? yes, apparently. this is also why i don't think your immediate impressions are necessarily best. sometimes your vision of a game is addled by its proximity -- you need a bit of distance to make out its stature
do character and writing and music really matter in games? yes, apparently. this is also why i don't think your immediate impressions are necessarily best. sometimes your vision of a game is addled by its proximity -- you need a bit of distance to make out its stature
Spotless Mind
Member
YES.
Would it have made a difference if each part of the trilogy was offered cheaper on separate discs? Each of the games in DH Trilogy were all pretty distinct from each other, from the looks of them none of them are even based on the same engine - something you can't say about the Orange Box. I don't really care for the issue since I don't really bother with top 10's and all that. I just find it interesting what people use to distinguish a "game"Grayman said:
Well back in the mid to late 90s licensed games were like that as well. If a Die harder or Die hard with a vengence game was made alone it would have had all 3 types of gameplay. Even die hard, if the game design was stuck in the past they would have made the police car run from shooters for 5 minutes instead of 15 seconds like the movie.spoon! said:Would it have made a difference if each part of the trilogy was offered cheaper on separate discs? Each of the games in DH Trilogy were all pretty distinct from each other, from the looks of them none of them are even based on the same engine - something you can't say about the Orange Box. I don't really care for the issue since I don't really bother with top 10's and all that. I just find it interesting what people use to distinguish a "game"
I am trying to think of another sku broken up like OB that is considered one game and can't.
Half Life 2 is a first person shooter adventure. I haven't played the 2 episodes but they could probably be treated as extras.
Portal is a puzzle game not really part of half life 2 at all.
Team Fortress 2 is an update to an update of a game that has zero to do with half life. It is multiplayer only and has a different play style from the other two. It could stand on it's own as a product as well.
To me Orange box is like a random double pack (serious sam/state of emergency) or old shareware CDs. Even on consoles it isn't one game, just like street fighter anniversary collection isn't.
BudokaiMR2
Member
Grayman said:
Comments like this make me think some of the ones arguing against it haven't even played Orange Box.
It is most certainly connected. They reference black mesa and such many times.
They're separate games. Even if you want to argue that the new content deserves to be one game, it's gonna get messy in the GOTY running when people new to the series start letting HL2 and HL2 Ep 1 affect their votes.
I don't see Tekken players discussing the nuances of Death by Degrees.
I don't see Tekken players discussing the nuances of Death by Degrees.
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