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Jojo's Bizarre Adventure |OT| Get back, Stand up

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Ezalc

Member
Currently reading through part 6. I'm on the part where Green Baby seems to first appear or something? Interesting bit of stands in this part, I like Annasui's because it seems to remind me a bit of Gambit's power. I also like how Jolyne is using hers, makes me wish we got to see a young Joseph with his stand.

I also enjoy seeing the interactions between Dio and Pucci. I find it amazing to see Dio so... well docile. I don't understand exactly how they came to be friends, or why Dio would give Pucci the time of day given the way he's portrayed in parts 1 and 3. Also I find it odd this whole talk about getting to heaven that Pucci says Dio studied. I don't know if it's supposed to be the literal heaven or some item or something, but I find it odd to see how dio used to be some maniacal bloodthirsty tyrant hell bent on conquering everything to see him quietly comtemplating philosophy while doing little hobbies in Egypt.
 

Ezalc

Member
Alright got up to the part where everybody is heading for Kennedy Space Center in the manga. I have to say Bohemian Rhapsody is a ridiculous stand. That range goddamn. I admit that I laughed hard at Annasui's frustration about Mickey Mouse.

Also that green baby thing and honestly the whole thing about going to heaven. Damn Araki pulled some shit out of his ass. A bunch of specific instructions and no mention of how Dio even found out about all of this. Also I find it weird that Dio had such a long time to do all of these things to get to heaven but didn't end up doing so. Finally, how the hell did Jotaro seal Dio's stand? By killing him? What.

I think that part 6 has been alright so far. It certainly has some of my favorite stands in Diver Down and Weather Report. I love the fact that the manga went out of it's way to clarify that the thing on his head is a hat, heh. I'm on volume like 12 or so, guess I'll be finishing this soon and moving on to part 7.
 

Crocodile

Member
So I finally got around to finishing Battle Tendency. I must say, it is a marked improvement over Phantom Blood (not perfect though - I'll get into that later). I'm going to start on what I really liked about Part II over Part I. First things first, Joesph Joestar >>>>>>>>> Jonathan Joestar. Jonathan was kind of a goody two shoes wet noodle with not much personality. Joesph had swag coming out of all his orifices and was as sharp as a razor blade mentally. He consistently was able to out-think and outwit his opponents. His intelligence/cleverness was by far his greatest weapon and I really liked that. He struggled for every win but almost all of them felt well earned (the ACDC fight is an exception - was a bit hard to follow for my tastes so it didn't leave a good impression on me :/).

Second, the villains were much better. Santanna wasn't around long and did really have much of a personality and ACDC didn't really do all that much honestly (I was surprised he died so soon considering his rank was supposed to be second only to Cars) but Wham and Cars were highlights for me. When Joesph tried to pull a "Cell" on Vegeta Wham I thought the character was just going to be be one of those "honor/pride" types that you often see who get easily duped. The way he turned it around on Joesph and the character development you saw with regards to his fights with Ceaser and the rematch with Joesph really made it clear that we was a legit character. I actually fell sorry for him when he actually died. He wasn't a mustache twirling villain who wanted to "rule the world" so much as a brother to his fellow Pillar Men and frankly, a "True Warrior". Wham was a well written villain IMO.

Cars played the magnificent bastard role well and did a better job of it than Dio did in Phantom Blood. Like holy shit at the air guitar O_O scene. Him being around longer and getting more screen time overall probably helped though. His final fate was so super satisfying for a scumbag like him.

Third, the fights were much better. It helped that Joesph and Caesar were smarter and more inventive fighters than their grandparents with more interesting techniques. The Joesph vs. Wham fight in the Colosseum and the final fight between Joesph and Super Cars were just amazing sequences. Some of the most ridiculous, hot-blooded crazy stuff I've seen in shonen recently. It is kind of a shame that Joesph was the only one to beat all the Pillar Men though. It would have been nice if the glory could have been spread out a bit :(

Fourth, the supporting cast was better. Phantom Blood had Will A. Zeppelli, R.E.O Speedwagon, Paco, and then the Ripple crew (Straits et al.) who showed up out of nowhere and were around for like 1.5 episodes. Battle Tendency sees Speedwagon return but he's actually somewhat useful because he has money and an organization. Smokey fills in the "Paco Role" and while he doesn't do that much I feel like giving Araki credit just for even having a Black character in his show let alone one who was an actual character with well meaning intentions and not a racist caricature in one way or another (Smokey is a dumb name though).

I prefer Ceaser to his grandfather because while he started as an ass, you really see him and his relationship with Jojo develop. Will A. Zeppeli's death left me feeling cold for a variety of reasons (guy was alive as half a dude for like an entire episode for fucks sake) but Ceaser's death Zeppeli hit me right in the feels ;_;. I know that in some later Part a character named Gyro Zeppeli shows up so I know the Zeppeli line isn't dead (we know Caesar had siblings) but I have no idea how they are related exactly (DON'T SPOIL PLZ) so it will be interesting to discover the connection some time in the future.

Stroheim worried me at first because I knew he was a Nazi and I wasn't sure how he was going to play out. The megalomainiac, insane coward (my first impression) didn't sit well with me but seeing how he helps out in the Santanna fight as well when he shows up later a few times as a cyborg (LOLOLOLOLOLOL) really turned his image around. This is a character that could have easily been a joke character or a unconformable (if maybe somewhat accurate) "herp a derp I hate Jews, Blacks and Gays cause I'm a Nazi derp a herp" caricature but he was an active contributor to the anti-Pillar Man effort.

Lisa Lisa was a standout. Strong, smart, no nonsense, beautiful - the character had it all. I felt the training episodes were a bit awkwardly paced and edited but I thought she was the right mix of stern and fair and really served as a good mentor character - she played the role better than Will A. Zeppelli ever did. The bit where she breaks down at Caesar's death was ;_; but then she picks herself back up and fights & bluffs like a BOSS. I kind of got annoyed at the near constant "but you're a woman", "I don't like fighting women", etc. lines that were thrown about at her- it got tiresome after a while. Also, while I certainly never expected her to beat Cars (main hero always has to beat the main villain and all that), she got fucking jobbed in that fight. Like I know if plays into Cars magnificent bastard role but she got robbed of a good fight and then spent like 4 episodes in a pool of her own blood. A bit disappointing I must say :/

Aside from some of the small issues I already noted, the main thing that irked me was how some things would happen with no explanation or contrary to sense (I know what the show is called, hear me out). When Straits tells Jojo about the Pillar Men, he talks as if the Pillar Men had spoken to him but its clear that couldn't have been the case since they were all still sealed. Weird no? Am I really supposed to believe the Stroheim survived BLOWING HIMSELF UP with a grenade back in Mexico? Like I can accept him coming back as a cyborg but only if it would have made sense for him to survive the Mexico incident (it didn't). How did the Germans seemed to always be in the know about everything? "Oh we had secret spies all about", etc. BULLSHIT. Don't tell me, show me. At least show me some damn Germans snooping around or some shit. I'm still trying to figure out how Mario Zepelli, the other ripple masters, the Germans all knew almost everything about the Pillar Men yet somehow neither Will A. Zepelli nor the ripple masters from Part I seemed to know shit about them (especially if the mystic vs. Pillar Man fight had gone on for centuries as the Pillar Men seem to suggest when they encounter Jojo et al. for the first time). How did ACDC know about Lisa Lisa's isle or that the Red Stone was there? How did the Germans and Speedwagon AND Smokey know about the Colosseum to provide Jojo backup? How did Stroheim go from being attacked by a mutant squirrel to on a plane nobody say him board in a matter of minutes to help Jojo beat Super Cars? How did Jojo jump off a cliff and fly off in a plane in the like one minute of time he should have had before Super Cars catches him? All these little add up (I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch of inconsistencies too) and becoming kind of annoying to think about. I can't tell if all this was as poorly/awkward explained in the manga or it was just another instance where the anime team had to pack a lot of material in a relatively small number of episodes so stuff had to be cut :/

I felt we could have used a bit more info on the Pillar Men themselves and their background. I would have wished the bit that came in the last episode came much sooner. So they are a primate offshoot that somehow have all these crazy superpowers but, like vampires, can't deal with sunlight. The show seems to imply that normal Pillar Men have elongated lifespans but that the Stone Masks Cars made are the reason the remaining Pillar Men are nigh immortal but the masks weren't "perfected" so they still had their weakness to the Sun. The Red Stone, and only the Red Stone (could Cars really not figure out another power source in all those years?), could perfect the masks and allow the Pillar Men to evolve high enough to overcome the solar weakness right? So did normal Pillar Men also eat vampires & humans and have those absorption powers? How did the masks fall into the hands of humans? Do Pillar Men gain additional subsistence from vampires that would make them want to actively turn humans into vampires? How did the four remaining Pillar Men even end up in those stone pillars? Honestly, I feel like if the Germans weren't even messing with the pillars to begin with, none of the Pillar Men would have even been able to awaken anyway :p How did Santanna and the other three get separated by such great distances (and no continental drift is not an answer we are dealing with too small a time scale for that to be relevant)? Honestly, I feel like I could go on and on. I felt like there were tons of little details that needed to be elaborated upon but never were :(

From my long write-up, I think its clear I enjoyed Battle Tendency very much. It had what I felt was some wonky writing in some parts and some of the episodes in the middle of the arc dragged for my tastes but it started strong and the end was explosively awesome. I'm looking forward to Part III in the spring :)
 

jgminto

Member
Cars played the magnificent bastard role well and did a better job of it than Dio did in Phantom Blood.

Lisa Lisa was a standout. Strong, smart, no nonsense, beautiful - the character had it all. I felt the training episodes were a bit awkwardly paced and edited but I thought she was the right mix of stern and fair and really served as a good mentor character - she played the role better than Will A. Zeppelli ever did.

I agree that Battle Tendency is muuuuuch better than Phantom Blood and the same with Joseph over Jonathan , but these two, no way. Dio is one of the best villains in the entire series and while he wasn't as fab as his Stardust form, with that VO he was still so fantastic while Cars only really had a few good moments, he's probably the weakest villain in the whole series, Esidisi and Wham were cool though. And Lisa Lisa was cool, but I don't think she could match Will's raw swag.

Also don't try to analyse small issues in JJBA. The answer is most likely "Araki don't give a fuck." Notice how Dio was in his coffin in the final teaser? The one that Erina escaped on? Don't expect any explanation on that! Or any other things like that throughout the series. That's not how Araki writes.
 

dan2026

Member
I wonder if there has been any movement on licencing the Jojo anime in the west.

Also I'm surprised Crunchyroll or someone isn't looking into simulcasting the new series when it starts in April. I think Jojo is popular and quirky enough that it could be a real boon for them.
 

Werewolf Jones

Gold Member
Yeeeah. Araki changed the gender and Stand power of a character partway through Stone Ocean.

Changed Annasui to a girl then changed Diver Down to a regular punch ghost.

Also both Will and Caesar are really awful characters in comparison to Gyro, at least Gyro actually did something of merit.
 

Gazoinks

Member
Changed Annasui to a girl then changed Diver Down to a regular punch ghost.

Also both Will and Caesar are really awful characters in comparison to Gyro, at least Gyro actually did something of merit.

That's not entirely fair though, Gyro is one of the best characters in the entire series. :p
 

Ezalc

Member
Changed Annasui to a girl then changed Diver Down to a regular punch ghost.

Also both Will and Caesar are really awful characters in comparison to Gyro, at least Gyro actually did something of merit.

Annasui was always a dude, what are you talking about? Diver Down's power got changed yeah, though it seems he can still influence things he dives into which I guess is just a bit of a upgraded version of his old power.
 

Gazoinks

Member
Annasui was always a dude, what are you talking about? Diver Down's power got changed yeah, though it seems he can still influence things he dives into which I guess is just a bit of a upgraded version of his old power.

Annasui was introduced as a girl.
Femme_anasui.jpg
 

Ezalc

Member
Well finished part 6 and started part 7.

Stone Ocean was a pretty interesting part. I enjoyed the characters enough and Pucci's backstory was pretty cool. I think he was actually a decent villain and Weather's line to him was pretty cool. I always enjoy seeing evil priests in some works because of the conflict that comes with the character that is supposedly following "God's" will only be an extremely sick and cruel human being. I didn't understand how Stairwell to Heaven works all that well either. It's ability is supposedly to accelerate time, so in theory Pucci shouldn't be running any faster he should only look like he is. So him outracing a bunch of shit made no sense at all. But this is Araki so whatevs.

The ending was ok, I definitely didn't expect for Pucci to be finished off in the way he was but I didn't think it was necessarily bad in how it was done, just again doesn't make all that much sense.

This part did make me sad that there aren't more part 6 characters playable though. FF, Annasui and Weather Report should have definitely been playable in JJBA:ASB.

While I've only started Steel Ball Run, Gyro already seems like a great character and I can see myself liking him a lot. I already like his Nyoho! and the fact that he picked the teddy bear earned my respect.

Interesting to see that Johnny was an asshole and I'm interested to see how he develops and more importantly how his, I'm hoping, bromance with Gyro develops.

Will there finally be a protag as potentially good as Joseph or Josuke (imo the 1 and 2 respectively best protags.) We'll see.

I'm surprised that Diego was introduced so early, it'll be interesting to see where that goes. As for Funny Valentine I already know he exists and have a very vague notion of his stand's power. So I guess I'll wait to see how he's introduced and how he fits into everything.

Finally, it's fun seeing these throwbacks to Abdul and the Speedwagon foundation still being some oil titan. The only thing about SBR that makes me sad is that given the story's setting this means Joseph isn't a thing, which saddens me greatly.

Anyway, the art looks pretty good in SBR and I'm excited to finally have a Zeppeli back after 4 parts.
 

Werewolf Jones

Gold Member
Annasui is kinda weird to play in ASB but I love his quotes against Stone Ocean characters.

"This is for Jolyne's sake."
"Cute... You're so cute Jolyne!"
"Hey, you're Jolyne's friend right?"

I wanted F.F. in ASB badly too but ah well.

Joseph makes an appearance in the SBR universe all right...
In text form.
hehe.
 

Ezalc

Member
Goddamn it. Though at least this means that there's a Joseph somewhere in the SBR universe. That's a good thing right?
 

Yonafunu

Member
Goddamn it. Though at least this means that there's a Joseph somewhere in the SBR universe. That's a good thing right?

Well, I see SBR as a sequel, not a 'reset' or something. So it's not like all of the stuff in Part 1-6 never happened, it's just in the past.
 

Ezalc

Member
How is that even possible when there's no mention of a Johnny Joestar in any other Jojo manga before then? (the ones that chronologically come after). It makes no sense for him to just be there. Plus if he was in the same universe as the other Jojos then he'd have to be Jorge I's child or Jonathan's actual blood brother due to the time. Unless he suddenly got a cousin nobody knew about.
 

Lirlond

Member
The universe 「died」 and was 「reborn」 twice due to the power of 「Made in Heaven」. The events of 「Steel Ball Run」 take place in the 「second」 reincarnation. It wasn't a 「reset」 but a 「continuation」 of what happened in 「Stone Ocean」
 

Yonafunu

Member
SBR is part of the same continuity. It just that it's the past of the "new universe"

The universe 「died」 and was 「reborn」 twice due to the power of 「Made in Heaven」. The events of 「Steel Ball Run」 take place in the 「second」 reincarnation. It wasn't a 「reset」 but a 「continuation」 of what happened in 「Stone Ocean」

What they said.
 

Ezalc

Member
That's what I meant though. It's not a reboot of the entire series but it's still set in a universe where the events of the past 5 parts didn't happen correct?
 

Yonafunu

Member
That's what I meant though. It's not a reboot of the entire series but it's still set in a universe where the events of the past 5 parts didn't happen correct?

It really depends on how you define 'universe', but they happened a looooooong time ago, in the previous universe. So technically you're right.
But this is problem with interpretation. Saying it's a universe where the events of Part 1-6 didn't happen implies that it's a reset of some kind, like they were supposed to happen but didn't. That's not the case, it's a different, new universe, with it's own events.
 

Ezalc

Member
I understand. I suppose that I expressed it in that form just to make it a bit easier for me to understand it.

I mean, I realize what the consequences of Stairway to Heaven were. It basically accelerated time to the see the ending of the universe that the parts 1-6 Jojos take place in and created the one where SBR (and Jojolion?) take place in.

In a way it is a continuation but it's also not at the same time. I just keep going off the point of since it's a new universe the past events don't have any relevance to the ones happening now besides tthe small point of Stairway to Heaven.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
It's basically a reboot, just one explained using some plot contrivance.
 
So does Jojolion exist in the same universe as SBR or has that not been explained yet?

They're in the same universe, as Jojolion is a direct sequel. The biggest tip-offs is that one of the characters in JJL is the grandson of one of the SBR contestants. There are other, more spoilery details as well.
 

Crocodile

Member
*Tries to carefully navigate/avoid posts that are clearly talking about Parts I haven't seen yet*

I agree that Battle Tendency is muuuuuch better than Phantom Blood and the same with Joseph over Jonathan , but these two, no way. Dio is one of the best villains in the entire series and while he wasn't as fab as his Stardust form, with that VO he was still so fantastic while Cars only really had a few good moments, he's probably the weakest villain in the whole series, Esidisi and Wham were cool though. And Lisa Lisa was cool, but I don't think she could match Will's raw swag.

Also don't try to analyse small issues in JJBA. The answer is most likely "Araki don't give a fuck." Notice how Dio was in his coffin in the final teaser? The one that Erina escaped on? Don't expect any explanation on that! Or any other things like that throughout the series. That's not how Araki writes.

To be fair, I'm only really familiar with Part I Dio. I know Part III is when the series kind of "takes off" and Dio is well remembered for his role in Part III and not Part I. I will agree that Dio's VA is superior. I may not have given Part I Dio enough credit.

As for William Zepelli vs. Lisa Lisa, Zeppelli certainly had some memorable moments like with the frog and the skipping along water bit but I just think overall Lisa Lisa was a better written and more interesting character who did more in the context of Part II than Zeppelli in Part I.

As for the wonky bits of writing (holy shit you're right about the coffin O_O), its disappointing to hear that those won't disappear. I'm sure it shouldn't really grate on my nerves and I certainly know what kind of show I'm getting into when I sit down to watch but it's still annoying. I'm guessing most people over the course of this series' lifespan have been too swept up in the BIZARRE to either care or notice :p

I will point out one more thing I didn't like about Part II though: the narrator who I felt was a much bigger presence in Part I than in Part II. I don't know why but as much as Speedwagon having to explain things I could plainly see with my eyes was annoying, having a random, disembodied voice seemed even more unnecessary :/ Hell in almost every instance if a character NEEDED to explain what was happening, there was usually already someone around to do so be it Stroheim, Speedwagon himself, etc. I especially "loved" when the narrator would ramble on about how "Vampires can leap 20 feet into the air" or "Santanna can bench press two elephants". Like is that information at all relevant or something I need to know? It's not? Then shut up :p

Before I go, here is some pretty cool Pillar Men fanart I found online
ACDC sucks

 
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