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Rape charge dropped against USC student after evidence of consent presented

DOWN

DOWN

Banned
Symphonia said:
It’s deformation of character. His life could’ve been ruined by this one lie.
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We don’t know she’s lying unless we know of some specific claim contradicted by video. She may not have given ongoing consent in private and he may not have stopped when he should have, so her accusation is still possible - we just know that the video casts reasonable doubt and there’s little other evidence so the case is dismissed.

To sue her for defamation you would have to prove what happened in private wasn’t like she said, and again there’s no evidence of what went down in private. And there’s no evidence she was intending to defame him rather than tell what she believes to be truthful and what even may be truthful but is simply not visible in evidence.

Let’s not jump to acting like we know she’s out to ruin a male’s life now.
 
A

Arrogant Bastard

Banned
Anton Sugar said:
How often is "all the damn time"? What are the stats on false rape accusations due to regret?
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All the damn time is in reference to people doing things they regret while intoxicated. I have done plenty of stupid things while intoxicated that I would have never done while sober. The overwhelming majority were just bad decisions, still regretted them the next day.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
HarryKS said:
Ok, not catcalling then. My bad.

It wasn't a statement, it was a question though. I'm not trying to defend deviant acts.

What's sexual assault in those 30%?
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Are... are you trying to dig in and say that there's "benign" sexual assault?

How about you just go ahead and tell me just what sexual assault is benign.
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
Consent is always gonna be a tough thing to nail legally.

No. Means. No. At any point before sex AND any point during sex.

Where it gets tough is when drugs. and alcohol are involved. Hello college campuses!

A plastered girl can't give consent. But people have blackout drunk hook ups all the time.
A girl who's had a few drinks, probably can give consent. it just lowers inhibitions but she should be able to. I'm talking either below or just at the illegal limit for driving.
So what happens when the man and the woman are blackout drunk, have sex, and the woman files rape charges? I assume the case is either thrown out or evidence is needed of a struggle or her saying no. If she claims she could not give consent because she was drunk then by law they both raped each other.
 
M

my name is ed

Banned
Catman said:
I think I'm just gonna cut off my penis at this point. I just hate this double standard of women not being accountable if they're drunk. Woman has sex while intoxicated, she was raped. Man has sex while intoxicated, he's the rapist. It's like men are supposed to be accountable while drunk, but women aren't.
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According to RAINN, 9 of every 10 rape victims are women.

But yeah go ahead cut off your penis because you think its unfair that men are suspected to be guilty of rape when a woman presses charges
 
CampbellzSoup

CampbellzSoup

Member
If you're having consensual sex with someone and then they say no...and you stop immediately is that considered rape? How would someone even prove that?

Serious question.
 
K

Kinsei

Banned
CampbellzSoup said:
If you're having consensual sex with someone and then they say no...and you stop immediately is that considered rape? How would someone even prove that?

Serious question.
Click to expand...

No that's not rape. It is rape if you continue having sex after consent is revoked.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Tawpgun said:
Consent is always gonna be a tough thing to nail legally.

No. Means. No. At any point before sex AND any point during sex.

Where it gets tough is when drugs. and alcohol are involved. Hello college campuses!

A plastered girl can't give consent. But people have blackout drunk hook ups all the time.
A girl who's had a few drinks, probably can give consent. it just lowers inhibitions but she should be able to. I'm talking either below or just at the illegal limit for driving.
So what happens when the man and the woman are blackout drunk, have sex, and the woman files rape charges? I assume the case is either thrown out or evidence is needed of a struggle or her saying no. If she claims she could not give consent because she was drunk then by law they both raped each other.
Click to expand...
A jury decides
 
G

GeordieMark

Member
Reeks said:
Yah of course they shouldn't be viewed as guilty until proven innocent. A false claim can do a lot of damage, absolutely. False claims are very rare and rape isn't. Think about the fact that false claim stories make headlines but actual rape convictions/proceedings rarely do.
Taking claims seriously is not the same thing and burdening one gender, so we have no disagreement there...
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False reports only make it to the news when someone is charged. There are a lot of claims that are dropped before that stage. A pal of mine is a copper and he says it happens all the time, every weekend. It happened to someone I know recently and they spent nearly two weeks in turmoil with the accusation hanging over their head before the accuser withdrew their statement and told the police it wasn't accurate.

It's rare that they get to court, but false accusations are reasonably common.
 
M

Mesoian

Member
RDreamer said:
Are... are you trying to dig in and say that there's "benign" sexual assault?

How about you just go ahead and tell me just what sexual assault is benign.
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There are a LOOOOOOOOOOOOT of people out there who would argue that a grope or an ass swat is benign sexual assault.

They're wrong, but those people are out there.
 
B

boiled goose

good with gravy
Hmm tricky case

She might have consented earlier but then passed out or changed her mind.

What did the roommate witness describe?
 
DOWN

DOWN

Banned
KingV said:
I mean, she had better show receipts then. Because you gotta be pretty biased to believe that she's all over him at the bar, and in the Uber, and then gets back to her crib and is like "nah, now that nobody is around, i want to make a good decision". And think that there is enough evidence to prove her case.

Personally, I think neither person actually knows exactly what happened that night. They were both too drunk.
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Ya think it’s some rare thing for a pair to get to someone’s place expecting sex but then one or both decide they don’t want to do this for a variety of reasons? Nah
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
Sunster said:
I wouldn't say women get absolved, like ever. Going through the process of accusing someone to trial is wildly difficult and traumatic. They are labeled as liars, sluts, and worse along the way. Then the rapist is rarely prosecuted. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/17/college-rape-prosecutors-press-charges_n_5500432.htmlThis is why false accusations are very rare
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That link doesn't quantity falls accusations, only the success rate of cases that go to trial.
 
M

Mesoian

Member
CampbellzSoup said:
If you're having consensual sex with someone and then they say no...and you stop immediately is that considered rape? How would someone even prove that?

Serious question.
Click to expand...

Dude come on.

If you're that nervous about being accused of rape, just don't engage with flirtation and you'll be fine.

The answer to your question is no by the way.
 
B

benicillin

Banned
GeordieMark said:
False reports only make it to the news when someone is charged. There are a lot of claims that are dropped before that stage. A pal of mine is a copper and he says it happens all the time, every weekend. It happened to someone I know recently and they spent nearly two weeks in turmoil with the accusation hanging over their head before the accuser withdrew their statement and told the police it wasn't accurate.

It's rare that they get to court, but false accusations are reasonably common.
Click to expand...

Gonna need a lot more than some secondhand stories if you're going to expect anyone to take you seriously, considering every statistic out there says that rape goes underreported.
 
A

Arrogant Bastard

Banned
Okay, I forget this is GAF and people seriously need this stuff explained to them. There does seem to be some serious confusion/ignorance over consensual sex. You guys really are that daft, how?

Anton, my apologies.

If someone says no before/during, and you don't stop, you are raping them.
 
M

Mesoian

Member
Nerazar said:
Holy shit. You're joking, right?
Click to expand...

He's actually quite correct.

Remember, "you" is not you, "you" is the male populous. And yes, she is dramatically more likely to end up dead than coming back to accuse you of rape. That is the risk that women take in our society. It sucks.
 
R

Reeks

Member
HiredN00bs said:
But, it's entirely possible she revoked consent at some point in their activity. People are saying she's making a false claim when that is incredibly rare. Going through the justice system after an assault and/or rape is incredibly traumatic and taxing. There is almost no incentive and a lot of disincentive for people to make false claims, and even more tragically, legitimate ones as well.
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Yah. It's not just talking to a cop for an hour and filling out a form. It's a full day of interviews, accusatory to the alleged victim I might add. You tell the story to multiple people who attempt to find any holes in your story, so sometimes they intentionally try to confuse you. Then a doctor will swab your entire body including your cavities. Then a cop will escort you (in the back of their squad car) to your home to collect the items you wore if you've changed. Then they drive you to the alleged perpetrators dwelling and ask you to point out their home. Then it's back to the station for a final interview. Not something many people will do because they regret a drunk decision.
 
S

Shadowhelper

Banned
boiled goose said:
Hmm tricky case

She might have consented earlier but then passed out or changed her mind.

What did the roommate witness describe?
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She didn't see anything. She only saw the aftermath.

She then confronted the defendant who was in the bathroom and left.

Most likely she saw her friend was really out of it, and felt she was taken advantage of.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
GeordieMark said:
False reports only make it to the news when someone is charged. There are a lot of claims that are dropped before that stage. A pal of mine is a copper and he says it happens all the time, every weekend. It happened to someone I know recently and they spent nearly two weeks in turmoil with the accusation hanging over their head before the accuser withdrew their statement and told the police it wasn't accurate.

It's rare that they get to court, but false accusations are reasonably common.
Click to expand...

A police officer's personal opinion on how often women cry rape is not what I'd use to claim that women making false rape accusations are common.
 
L

Linkstrikesback

Member
excelsiorlef said:
A police officer's personal opinion on how often women cry rape is not what I'd use to claim that women making false rape accusations are common.
Click to expand...

I mean, presumably we'd have to conclude the number of cases thrown out by judges/found not guilty are the number of false accusations, and I'd be surprised if those numbers weren't fairly readily available?
 
Charles Brandon

Charles Brandon

Member
Tawpgun said:
Consent is always gonna be a tough thing to nail legally.

No. Means. No. At any point before sex AND any point during sex.

Where it gets tough is when drugs. and alcohol are involved. Hello college campuses!

A plastered girl can't give consent. But people have blackout drunk hook ups all the time.
A girl who's had a few drinks, probably can give consent. it just lowers inhibitions but she should be able to. I'm talking either below or just at the illegal limit for driving.
So what happens when the man and the woman are blackout drunk, have sex, and the woman files rape charges? I assume the case is either thrown out or evidence is needed of a struggle or her saying no. If she claims she could not give consent because she was drunk then by law they both raped each other.
Click to expand...

Woman cannot rape a man by definition though, rape is the act of penetration (or at least it is in the UK) which is where all this stuff gets murky. You can be drunk as hell in a bar and a woman approaches you, takes you home and fucks you and, if she's drunk as hell too (even if it didn't seem like it), you raped that woman. Yes you did. Doesn't have to be a stranger. You sit at home with your wife and you both get drunk off your arses and you go upstairs and have sex, that's rape potentially. She's too drunk to consent, therefore she didn't consent, therefore you raped her. Doesn't work the other way round unless she put something up your arse.

Now all that is pretty fucked up but really it doesn't happen like that very often and the concept of being too drunk to give consent is an important one that protects vulnerable women from predatory men. But you can't have the protection without having the fucked up situations in my first paragraph and so occasionally, stuff like this case happens.
 
V

Vermillion

Banned
Don't have drunk sex with people you don't know.

Actually, don't have sex with people you don't know, period. Solves the majority of these worries.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
Linkstrikesback said:
I mean, presumably we'd have to conclude the number of cases thrown out by judges/found not guilty are the number of false accusations, and I'd be surprised if those numbers weren't fairly readily available?
Click to expand...

Ummm no.

We would not have to assume that like at all. Wtf.

Are you actually serious?

Not enough evidence for a trial or for a convinction does not correlate to the woman made it all up.
 
S

superbeau

Neo Member
HiredN00bs said:
Holy fucking shit.

How could it be considered rape?
Click to expand...

Hypothetical? You have someones dick or strap on in you and you decide "mmm no, nope not for me" you tell them to stop. They go "no no no, see we already decided this" and they continue until they've decided that they're finished no matter what you say. Your personal agency is irrelevant to them and they will use you as they see fit. Do you see how that is criminal behavior?

Edit: ah whoops, read your response wrong. My bad.
 
HarryKS

HarryKS

Member
RDreamer said:
Are... are you trying to dig in and say that there's "benign" sexual assault?

How about you just go ahead and tell me just what sexual assault is benign.
Click to expand...


You're seeing things you want to see at this point. I asked a question, you're trying to turn this into a petty discussion about my character, which is not surprising in these threads quite often. There is a tendency to see dubious intent everywhere, even when a question is asked out of curiosity but such is the nature of the beast.

When the word benign is used, it is of course to point out that there's a varying level of gravity attached to the act in itself. I fully concede that I was wrong about catcalling and that was unfortunate, even though I was not looking for a precise term, which people have pointed out.

Example: Groping is not the same as penetrating someone forcefully. It simply is not. But there is a tendency to conflate the two when you categorize it as sexual assault and pile it on.

Women have grabbed my ass out of the blue in clubs, I'm never gonna equate that to someone forcing me to engage into a sexual act.
 
G

God Dayumm

Banned
Zonar said:
Sweet one guy was helped.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-oklahoma-shooting-not-guilty-20170517-story.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39788679

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/...ice-video-sparks-outrage-170621051241173.html

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/raw-vi...atally-shooting-black-man-in-s-c-424583235524

I could go on and on you know....
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Baby steps. It used to be that false rape accusations lead to genocide of entire communities.
 
A

ahoyhoy

Unconfirmed Member
Vermillion said:
Don't have drunk sex with people you don't know.

Actually, don't have sex with people you don't know, period. Solves the majority of these worries.
Click to expand...

As someone with trust issues this has always been my opinion, but of course this won't fly for everyone.

We need a better solution for the sake of all parties involved in rape accusations. No idea what that would be.
 
M

Mesoian

Member
Geoff said:
Woman cannot rape a man by definition though, rape is the act of penetration (or at least it is in the UK) which is where all this stuff gets murky.
Click to expand...

Haha no. That line of thinking is what gets a lot of people in the states in a lot of trouble. Men can absolutely be raped.
 
A

Arrogant Bastard

Banned
superbeau said:
Hypothetical? You have someones dick or strap on in you and you decide "mmm no, nope not for me" you tell them to stop. They go "no no no, see we already decided this" and they continue until they've decided that they're finished no matter what you say. Your personal agency is irrelevant to them and they will use you as they see fit. Do you see how that is criminal behavior?
Click to expand...

You might want to re-read the conversation, because he is agreeing with you.
 
N

Nerazar

Member
Mesoian said:
He's actually quite correct.
Click to expand...

That twisted line of thought is the very reason people don't take die-hard "liberals" or "progressives" serious. And they definitely shouldn't.

Telling one person straight to the face that he is likely to murder someone is not nothing. I know it's a statistical ploy to make a point, a weak one, nonetheless, but come on. That's not how you have a discussion. And if you want to talk statistics, then bring credible statistics instead of insinuating stuff.

So basically, to sum the hard-core perspective up: Men could always be falsely accused of rape and if there is no video evidence, then they are guilty by default. And women who lie about that (that number is not around 0) cannot be punished for destroying someone's life permanentely. And that is okay, because males are males? Or is there another reason for that?
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Zonar said:
Sweet one guy was helped.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-oklahoma-shooting-not-guilty-20170517-story.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39788679

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/...ice-video-sparks-outrage-170621051241173.html

http://www.nbcnews.com/video/raw-vi...atally-shooting-black-man-in-s-c-424583235524

I could go on and on you know....
Click to expand...

Yes, the justice system needs a lot of work.

But why go into a thread about a POC actually getting justice and post something like that without clearly having read the story in the OP?
 
I

Instro

Member
KingV said:
I mean, she had better show receipts then. Because you gotta be pretty biased to believe that she's all over him at the bar, and in the Uber, and then gets back to her crib and is like "nah, now that nobody is around, i want to make a good decision". And think that there is enough evidence to prove her case.

Personally, I think neither person actually knows exactly what happened that night. They were both too drunk.
Click to expand...

This is a really sketchy thought process. Maybe she got him home and passed out, maybe he did or said something to offend her, maybe he was actually a psycho, or wanted to do something she didn't want, etc., etc. Just because you were into someone at the bar doesn't mean that will hold true by the time you get home. Maybe she sobered up a bit, and realized he was ugly. Any number of valid reasons wherein consent could be revoked or no longer possible. I don't mean to say that's what happened here, but it's certainly possible and is not uncommon in rape cases.
 
A

asagami_

Banned
Geoff said:
Woman cannot rape a man by definition though, rape is the act of penetration (or at least it is in the UK) which is where all this stuff gets murky. You can be drunk as hell in a bar and a woman approaches you, takes you home and fucks you and, if she's drunk as hell too (even if it didn't seem like it), you raped that woman. Yes you did. Doesn't have to be a stranger. You sit at home with your wife and you both get drunk off your arses and you go upstairs and have sex, that's rape potentially. She's too drunk to consent, therefore she didn't consent, therefore you raped her. Doesn't work the other way round unless she put something up your arse.

Now all that is pretty fucked up but really it doesn't happen like that very often and the concept of being too drunk to give consent is an important one that protects vulnerable women from predatory men. But you can't have the protection without having the fucked up situations in my first paragraph and so occasionally, stuff like this case happens.
Click to expand...

Rape is an act of power, for god sake.
 
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