Of course this is true, but how many games do you know of that actually benefit from worse graphics?
it may not be the end all be all, but it does improve any experience out there (hell, even tetris).
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Square Enix: PS4 & 720 Will Need Plenty Of RAM To Meet Our Standard (+Edge RAM Rumor)
- Thread starter Nibel
- Start date
Of course this is true, but how many games do you know of that actually benefit from worse graphics?
it may not be the end all be all, but it does improve any experience out there (hell, even tetris).
That would be pretty crappy. The 360 launched with a GPU more powerful than anything on the PC market at the time.
If we're looking at a generation starting next year, where the GPUs are even weaker than what is already currently available, then that would be pretty sad.
Even that is irrelevant. PC games were outputting HD visuals for over a decade by the time consoles caught up.
shinobi602
Member
PC development costs are different. Prime example being the most demanding PC game taking only around $10 million to develop.
I don't know, but that's irrelevant unless all game development moves to Poland/Eastern Europe and other places in the world with generally cheaper wages than in Japan or the western world.
Though, one of the aims of this engine is to help keep to costs of development at a reasonable level, isn't it?
FlutterPuffs
Member
mugurumakensei
Member
Excluding the cost of developing the witcher 2 engine of course. It's misleading in the same way Epic's development costs are misleading. The average developer is going to be making modifications to the engine and including that in their dev costs while those who make their own engines exclude it.
Compared to when the current-gen systems launched, GPUs on the PC side have dramatically increased power consumption, heat generated, and definitely cost. You can't fit these top-of-the-line GPUs in a console-sized box precisely due to these reasons. The tech-demo was ran on a GTX680 because it has the power. You're still going to get a noticeable jump. Good things are expected (hoped) for the next generation.
Lol no. You're getting a much bigger jump than [PS2/GC/Xbox --> Wii] even with Wii U. You're not getting close to the jump you'd expect due to the reasons I stated above. This gen we saw a roughly 20x increase in performance from last gen. Next gen we're looking at a 3-8x jump.
How long do you think they've been saying this? Recent stuff like the square demo are in public, so it feels like a last chance of influence - show us, tease us and we'll be expecting machines from Sony/MS that can deliver.nbut presumably they will have been lobbying for a while now - not sure whether major changes are possible this late in development, maybe a tweak here or there.
680 has an official TDP of 195W. Modern CPUs can be relatively low power depending how much horsepower you want. You could get a complete system using less than 300W.
I'm not saying they will, i'm just curious why people are putting a hard stop at whatever the wattage 360/PS3 were at launch.
Why is it so low? What if one 3rd party developer creates one game for only one console. Would it be enough to program a demanding game with $10 million?
I forgot that TDP rates have gotten lower with successive generation of GPUs (and that Sony and Microsoft aren't Nintendo when it comes to power consumption). When I think TDP of a PC GPU, I mix it up with the recommended power requirement of the GPU. I'll gladly take that back. The heat issue and cost are still there, though, and those are the bigger problems.
360 had the RROD but the PS3 had some great cooling and an internal PSU. Moving the PSU to external would give them less heat to disperse and if needed more space for additional cooling.
Cost - blah, you're licensing millions of chips, probably part funding development of their PC line which they make huge margins on, the cost difference is surmountable IMO. Especially if there is a clear path to size/cost reduction down the line (potentially thats a bigger issue as I think the 680 is already 28nm, so shrinks may take longer than the larger processes used on older chips)
What are exceptable levels of heat in a console? Heat is bigger issue than because cost of tech goes down year to year, while heat newer needs technology to develop.
Canis lupus
Member
How much more do the games cost to make compared to the previous gen?
The best looking RPG out right now cost $10 million to make. It also has HD towns, and is nonlinear.
To reign in costs, S-E needs to fix their development process for HD games, and everything they've said and done over the past year or two shows that they are actively working on it. Throwing your hands in the air and accepting stagnation while relying on old technology and methodologies, as some here seem to be proposing, is not a solution.
Wouldn't devoting equal attention to both ps4/720 from the very start be following that plan? I'm not talking about Silpheed sequels either. They're not banking on one platform I'm sure. They're designing a new engine that will be platform agnostic. They've scooped up western developers that can make AAA multiplatform releases which is what the Japanese branch will be doing the start of next gen. It's a very feasible plan. Just because Wii U may get half-ass, B-team, releases doesn't mean they aren't following it. Not following the plan would be another, platform-exclusive, AAA, money-sink, like FFversusXIII or a mainline FF that wasn't developed day one with multiplatform release in mind. The next Playstation and Xbox aren't the same console.
I have no idea what this has to do with my posts.
Sorry about that, I'm a dumbass lol
I read your post all the way through but didn't properly read what you were replying to. =p
It doesn't matter if you're a big company or small, you still have to make bets and invest early. You can't wait until the dust settles and it becomes apparent where each console sits within a generation.
Last gen SE placed most of their bets on Sony, while leaving the door open to MS and Nintendo. Next gen, it looks like they are betting on Sony and MS. It's doubtful but IF the 720 and PS4 bomb, that investment made for a next gen engine would be wasted.
DaSorcerer7
Member
To be fair, in the original article doesn't actually specify the systems they are targeting. At this point I think its too early to draw any conclusions.
The next Deus Ex will probably look kind of ugly for its time. Those kinds of games always look a bit ugly because all the work goes into the level design, as it should. There's a lot of non linearity and multiple paths to design.
Well I took this comment as a reference towards MS and Sony since there's no way the Wii-U is rendering that tech:
Wow if true.
I don't know, if that model is usable ingame(for ingame i mean when you actually control her running, fighting enemies etc) then i'm impressed, if that is a real time cut scene model then i'm not impressed, beyond two souls it's not that far
The agni's philosophy model is richer and better, but it's not a huge jump like these:
imo.
Found it, from the EGM: FF Versus XIII No Show at E3 thread.
Seems someone else added on and clarified that though.
Not sure which is worse, to be honest.
Seems someone else added on and clarified that though.
Not sure which is worse, to be honest.
shinobi602
Member
The agni's philosophy model is richer and better, but it's not a huge jump like these:
imo.
Nah, Agni's Philosophy character's complexion looks real. Eyes, skin color, hair and everything looks right.
In that Beyond pic, her sweat and blood look..."gamey". Like a piece of plastic.
AstroNut325
Member
Indeed... here's hoping SE brings their games to the PC. If the consoles aren't packing major muscle hardware then I'll be rocking SLI 680's or 7970s with 16GB of RAM.
I agree with you, but if a 2006 ps3 can do something like beyond two souls, from a 2013/2014 ps4 i expect something far better than that, at least i want that model ingame( when i control her ).
PIMPBYBLUD
Member
Would a RAM upgrade port like the N64 had be a bad idea for next gen? Atleast it would give the consumer an option. Or I may be totally clueless....
The thing is, Square never even mention the PS4 and 720 in this article, the writer said those, Square said "What we want for Next Generation consoles".
But that's exactly what's going to happen?
That's a drastic oversimplification of "development costs on PC". Especially when you're talking about games that are developed in countries that pay far lower wages. As mentioned, you might be saving a bit on licensing cost in comparison to consoles.
Isn't FFXIV running on the Crystal Tools engine? I wonder if they could port that over the Wii-U since the PC version would support DX10/11 features, right?
It's unlikely it would be used for any game unless it was specifically packaged with it.
There is this part:
That has to reference the 720 and PS4 since the Wii-U isn't running the tech.
Kung Fu Grip
Banned
I believe you.
Either way, i think people are taking this PC will be more powerful than consoles (which has always been the case) to seriously. Yes, when PS4720 is released there will be PC's thats x times better. But i still think we will be blown away at the improvement from these new consoles.
PC's being better never botherd me. It's the consoles thats mostly taken advantage of anyway.
Agreed?
lwilliams3
Member
I believe I read that their new engine will be scalable though.
Edit: it was stated that it would be scalable to all platforms according to this article:
http://www.gametrailers.com/side-mission/19712/square-enixs-luminous-engine-scalable-to-any-platform
The architecture will be much closer to that of modern PCs than previous consoles were (hence my statement there, making for an easier analogous statement), but the improvements over this generation will be great. The increase in memory alone should produce better results in every respect (not just visually). Higher end PCs will also benefit from a greater baseline with respect to multiplatform titles. There are some folks expecting too much, that's all.
bgassassin
Member
Exactly what I was getting at. It feels like one last push to get them to move the goal posts a little more.
Are you commenting on the first part of my post or second? =p
If first part, then great, they don't need to worry about Chrystal Tools and just use Luminous engine. I always question what developers mean when they say an engine is scalable. UE3 is on the iphone, but that engine isn't the same as what we see on the PS360.
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