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PoliGAF 2014 |OT| Kay Hagan and the Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad News

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B

bananas

Banned
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Previous PoliGAF Threads:

2013
PoliGAF 2013 |OT3| 1,000 Years of Darkness and Nuclear Fallout
PoliGAF 2013 |OT2| Worth 77% of OT1
PoliGAF 2013 |OT1| Never mind, Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

2012
PoliGaf 2012 |OT6| OBAMA
United States Election: Nov 6, 2012 |OT| - Barack Obama Re-elected
PolliGaf 2012 |OT5| Big Bird, Binders, Bayonets, Bad News and Benghazi
PoliGAF 2012 |OT4|: Your job is not to worry about 47% of these posts.
PoliGAF 2012 |OT3| If it's not a legitimate OT the mods have ways to shut it down
PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread |OT2| This thread title is now under military control
US PoliGAF 2012 | The Romney VeepStakes: Waiting for Chris Christie to Sing…
PoliGAF 2012 Community Thread

2011
PoliGAF 2011: Forum member gridlock causes inaction on thread title naming crisis
PoliGAF 2011: The 112th U.S. Congress is now in session: Want some graphs with that?

2010
Poligaf episode 2010: The Empire Strikes Back
PoliGAF 2010: On our way to November 2
PoliGAF 2010: Home Of "By The Time I Get To Arizona"

2009
PoliGAF Thread of PRESIDENT OBAMA Checkin' Off His List
PoliGAF Thread of PRESIDENT OBAMA's First 100 Out of the Way
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Awesome thread title. :lol

As a side note, I don't tweet all that much these days. My account is private now but I let followers in if I can identify them as GAFers.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
GhaleonEB said:
Awesome thread title. :lol

As a side note, I don't tweet all that much these days. My account is private now but I let followers in if I can identify them as GAFers.
Click to expand...

Is that why you ignored me when I messaged you months ago? :mad:
 
R

rocketknight

Member
Jeels said:
So, any guesses on what the big political moments are going to be this year?
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Conservatives will stage a Christmas in July church sit-in protest, launching a new conspiracy movement about the whereabouts of the first family on December 25th, 2013.
 
A

Aylinato

Member
Jeels said:
So, any guesses on what the big political moments are going to be this year?
Click to expand...


Benghazi. Obamacare "rollout." Republicans ignoring statistics and believing in what they "feel." Fox News gonna faux it up. No immigration reform. No jobs bills. Maybe another cut in the budget to social services. No student debt bills. Hopefully minimum wage increase. SCOTUS making awful decisions and Justice Roberts tryin to justify it by nonsensical reasoning because he has always aimed to get rid of certain legislation because he doesn't benefit directly from it(civil rights law comes to mind, citizens united is another). Scalia says more racist comments, which surprise no one. Texas gets busted for their voter surpression(hopefully). If NSA scandal gets to SCOTUS I have no idea how they'd rule. Senator Warren does awesome things. George W Bush makes paintings and people try to rebrand his image just like they tried with Nixon(but he did so great in Africa! GWB that is) lol. Michigan gets in news for being dumbest state and one of the worst governors ever(thanks PD for voting for him)(I didn't vote for the democrat either I wrote in my own candidate). Republicans get more radical.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
Speaking of rebranding, does anyone else find it ironic that despite labeling Obama as worst President ever, they still refuse to associate themselves with GWB?

KuGsj.gif
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
TacticalFox88 said:
Speaking of rebranding, does anyone else find it ironic that despite labeling Obama as worst President ever, they still refuse to associate themselves with GWB?

KuGsj.gif
Click to expand...

Rebranding can only go so far :lol

Sort of on that subject, deBlasio managed Hercules pretty well. My neighborhood usually has to wait a day or two to get plowed and we had it done almost first thing this morning. Such a nice change since Bloomberg sort of ignored everything that wasn't Manhattan/big money areas. Hopefully a sign of things to come.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Obamacare remains unpopular, administration doesn't reach the CBO's 7mil estimate, immigration reform fails, Obama's poll numbers don't recover, more NSA bombshells, a new White House scandal, another major shooting incident, dems lose 5 House seats but gain 5, republicans pick up NC, LA, and AR senate seats, Snyder is re-elected, Walker is re-elected, Crist beats Scott in Florida, Kaish holds on in Ohio, PA gets democrat governor, unemployment hovers aroun 6.7-7%.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
Put me on the Tweet list . . . . OK, I don't regularly tweet but I view that as a good thing.


Re: Minimum wage discussion.

People need to learn how to discuss the minimum wage issue with the proper framing. Bill Maher figure it out. Frame it as "Why do the rest of us have to subsidize Wal*Mart, KFC, and McDonalds?" They should pay a decent wage or go out of business. The tax-payers should not be subsidizing those businesses by paying for their employees food stamps and healthcare.

That is how you frame the issue. That is a slam dunk.
 
B

Black Mamba

Member
speculawyer said:
Put me on the Tweet list . . . . OK, I don't regularly tweet but I view that as a good thing.


Re: Minimum wage discussion.

People need to learn how to discuss the minimum wage issue with the proper framing. Bill Maher figure it out. Frame it as "Why do the rest of us have to subsidize Wal*Mart, KFC, and McDonalds?" They should pay a decent wage or go out of business. The tax-payers should not be subsidizing those businesses by paying for their employees food stamps and healthcare.

That is how you frame the issue. That is a slam dunk.
Click to expand...

But conservatives just want to remove food stamps and healthcare for those people. This is not a slam dunk.

Conservatives don't have a plan to help people. Their idea is to have poors fend for themselves and only have the gov't help the rich/elite.

If it was up to them, Walmart would pay them even less, offer no insurance, and the gov't wouldn't give food stamps.


They remind me of the Bill Hicks joke on pro-lifers. Only I believe you can replace "pro-lifers" with "conservatives" in general, now.

You know, and even amongst my friends - we're all highly intelligent - they're totally divided on the issue of abortion. Totally divided. Some of my friends think these pro-life people are just annoying idiots. Other of my friends think these pro-life people are evil fucks. How are we gonna have a consensus? I'm torn. I try and take the broad view and think of them as evil, annoying fucks.
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Sigh, if only he was still around.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
speculawyer said:
Put me on the Tweet list . . . . OK, I don't regularly tweet but I view that as a good thing.


Re: Minimum wage discussion.

People need to learn how to discuss the minimum wage issue with the proper framing. Bill Maher figure it out. Frame it as "Why do the rest of us have to subsidize Wal*Mart, KFC, and McDonalds?" They should pay a decent wage or go out of business. The tax-payers should not be subsidizing those businesses by paying for their employees food stamps and healthcare.

That is how you frame the issue. That is a slam dunk.
Click to expand...

GE paid no taxes in the middle of the worst part of the recession and hardly anyone cared. As a nation we tend to feel businesses can do no wrong. It's why Steve Jobs was a god and Bill Gates is just some guy who used to own Microsoft. If our priorities were in order it'd be the other way around.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
B-Dubs said:
GE paid no taxes in the middle of the worst part of the recession and hardly anyone cared. As a nation we tend to feel businesses can do no wrong. It's why Steve Jobs was a god and Bill Gates is just some guy who used to own Microsoft. If our priorities were in order it'd be the other way around.
Click to expand...

We can't tax the JOB CREATORS MAN!!!
 
R

RustyNails

Member
PhoenixDark said:
Obamacare remains unpopular, administration doesn't reach the CBO's 7mil estimate, immigration reform fails, Obama's poll numbers don't recover, more NSA bombshells, a new White House scandal, another major shooting incident, dems lose 5 House seats but gain 5, republicans pick up NC, LA, and AR senate seats, Snyder is re-elected, Walker is re-elected, Crist beats Scott in Florida, Kaish holds on in Ohio, PA gets democrat governor, unemployment hovers aroun 6.7-7%.
Click to expand...
and kay hagan?
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
RustyNails said:
and kay hagan?
Click to expand...
He said Republicans pick up NC.

Dunno why he clings onto it so dearly, it's like a fetish at this point.

Aaron Strife said:
Alright guys, some 2014 predictions.

- Nothing of huge importance is accomplished in Congress. Unemployment extension passes, while an increase to the minimum wage passes in the Senate but is DOA in the House (even though it would pass in the House if it were just brought up for a vote).

- House Republicans make a half-assed attempt at reviving immigration reform but ultimately kill it, and several of their members will make off-color comments about Hispanic people in the process.

- The debt ceiling becomes a clusterfuck that sinks the GOP's numbers owing to some tea party shenanigans.

- Obamacare enrollment hits its goal of 7 million on private insurance. While the law never becomes extraordinarily popular, it gains majority support in polls and is essentially neutralized as an issue in the midterm elections.

- Unemployment hits 6% before the end of the year, and the budget deficit close to halves owing to higher tax receipts.

- SCOTUS agrees to hear a gay marriage case but we won't get a ruling or anything until next year. Until then, four more states will legalize it: Oregon, Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. Oregon via ballot initiative, the other three through the courts. A coalition of states with legalized gay marriage would now be big enough to elect a U.S. president.

- Democrats win the House with a commanding 220-215 majority.

- The Senate stays at 55-45 Democrats. Democrats lose West Virginia and South Dakota while picking up Georgia and Kentucky.

- Democrats hit it big in governors' races - Michigan, Florida, Maine, Pennsylvania, and one more state will all turn blue. Democrats hold everywhere else.

- Mitch McConnell at some point after the election forgets he won't be a Senator anymore and tries to issue a bold threat to Harry Reid, which is subsequently laughed off by Senate Democrats and the press.

- To close out the year, Hillary Clinton announces her candidacy for President of the United States.
Click to expand...
.
 
B

bananas

Banned
I predict Obama will accidentally fall down and he will get up and try to play it cool, but he knows he just made himself look silly and can't stop thinking about it.

Also, he will get impeached for something nothing.
 
T

TacticalFox88

Banned
If, and it's a HUGE if, Dems keep their majority in Senate and take back House, I agree with Aaron, Hillary will announce that she's running for President a week later.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
bananas said:
I predict Obama will accidentally fall down and he will get up and try to play it cool, but he knows he just made himself look silly and can't stop thinking about it.

Also, he will get impeached for something nothing.
Click to expand...

He's going to trip over Bo and Sunny's leashes while walking them for a photo op. He will be impeached for that by the House. "How can we trust him to run the country when he can't even take his dogs for a walk!" FOX will have a 12-part series on how he did it wrong and how it ties into BENGHAZI.
 
S

speculawyer

Member
B-Dubs said:
GE paid no taxes in the middle of the worst part of the recession and hardly anyone cared. As a nation we tend to feel businesses can do no wrong. It's why Steve Jobs was a god and Bill Gates is just some guy who used to own Microsoft. If our priorities were in order it'd be the other way around.
Click to expand...

We didn't pay for food stamps and healthcare for most of GE's workers. We did for Wal*Mart, McD's, KFC, etc. It is one thing to not pay much taxes, it is another to be SUBSIDIZED by the tax-payers.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
speculawyer said:
We didn't pay for food stamps and healthcare for most of GE's workers. We did for Wal*Mart, McD's, KFC, etc. It is one thing to not pay much taxes, it is another to be SUBSIDIZED by the tax-payers.
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Oh I know, I was just pointing out the general apathy Americans have towards the wrong doings of businesses. Unless you majorly fuck up and break a million laws, we don't give a rat's ass.

I'm not saying it's right, or that I agree with it, but the fact is we let business get away with almost whatever the hell they want and cheer them on while they do it.
 
C

ClassyPenguin

Banned
Commodity crops subsidies are retracted in favor of diversification in 2014. Extended grants into GMO's that will reduce commonly used pesticides, even in organic farming.


I can dream can I?


Don't get me started on the FDA and USDA reform and expansion.


Edit: forgot public transport.
 
Z

zero shift

Banned
APKmetsfan said:
My major issue with marxist/socialist understanding of politics is their obession with class which they claim overcomes other divisions. I just fundamentally don't see that backed up it seems very much based in the European experience.
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History has very much proven this. Again look at Japan. Despite it being in many ways a Republican wetdream in terms of work ethic (students from all classes equally get very good grades), people do not have kids, often live with their parents. Having a real minimum wage only a bit less than America. And "regrettably" generous job benefits that pretty much act as a social service. Despite all of this Japan still has the second highest poverty rates amongst the first world (guess who's number one?) while one third of one's income is determined by what their father made. Above average social mobility, but still existent, and doesn't even measure today to see what mobility is like for those that entered the job market after the nation's great economic boom.

Despite people's complaints someone has to work as the fry cook at Mcdonald's. You can't have someone who is a regional manager without someone who is manager and you can't have a manager without a supervisor and you can't have a supervisor without gruntworkers. Now I'm not going to be obtuse, there are some factors that make this less "OMG horrific!" as age plays a role into this. Yes many gruntworkers tend to be very young while regional managers tend to be "old". However there aren't enough jobs for all adults forcing some to work positions as gruntworkers, quite a non-insignificant sum of the population as well. The other thing is that working up to supervisor or manager doesn't mean much if the pay is still shitty. Now again not to be obtuse the pay is still better than being a gruntworker. But moving from making $7.25 per hour to $11 per hour while raising a family doesn't sound too appealing. Sure you can scream "Life choices!" but the problem is that we have marginalized so many people in this country that the vacuum at the bottom is big enough to suck enough people in that a lot (most?) of people who took the right roads in life who have found themselves in a hell of a rut and are stuck.

It is no coincidence that the richest 1% are the only ones to see their incomes go up while the rest have had theirs go down, and why those that got hurt the most had the proportion of their blow from the least to greatest starting from the top quintile. Class exists. The less money and status one has the less power they have to voice their concerns in society. Minimizing divisions in class ensures that we all grow together and that we are all taken care of. It is no coincidence that countries with the least divisions of class (Scandinavia) always come out on top in terms of social mobility and poverty rates. If you fix the access and balance the quality of school, healthcare, and community supervision other divisions in society will largely disappear.

The problem with the reds isn't the obsession over class but that they often get so obsessed with punishing those that benefit capitalism instead of addressing inequalities. They often turn a blind eye to shady practices such as nations nationalizing industries that aren't benefiting the populace as much as it should and the lack of focus on giving the population control over these industries, as long as its for an anti-capitalist rhetoric. Its similar how the far right will excuse things such as having half a dozen or so banks or healthcare providers own a majority of an industry because its of "the markets will" even if it doesn't align with some basic tenets in capitalism.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
Long time no post.

I missed the discussion of the GOP civil war narrative, but from what little I lurked it seemed that a lot of people took it as a ploy by the GOP itself. I don't think so, I'd say that the establishment people see the end of the benefit of catering to the crazies. That's the way they lost safe seats last election, I'm thinking they don't want to lose more.

In any case I find it very entertaining.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
bananas said:
I predict Obama will accidentally fall down and he will get up and try to play it cool, but he knows he just made himself look silly and can't stop thinking about it.

Also, he will get impeached for something nothing.
Click to expand...
I thought you were gonna say he will get impeached for accidentally falling down, and it would've made total sense.
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Sen. Paul says he's suing Obama Administration over NSA policies
WASHINGTON (AP) — Republican Sen. Rand Paul says he is filing suit against the Obama administration over the data-collection policies of the National Security Agency. On his website, he's urging Americans to join the lawsuit, in his words, "to stop Barack Obama's NSA from snooping on the American people."

In an interview Friday night on the Fox News show "Hannity," the Kentucky Republican tells host Eric Bolling he believes everyone in the U.S. with a cellphone would be eligible to join the suit as a class action.

Paul says that people who want to join the suit are telling the government that it can't have access to emails and phone records without permission or without a specific warrant.

Paul says the lead lawyer in the suit is Virginia's former attorney general, Ken Cuccinelli.
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Can you even sue the federal government? Also, good luck Cooch.
 
N

NYCmetsfan

Banned
empty vessel said:
I'm surprised that's your major issue when that seems the least objectionable and most obviously true. There are employers and employees whose interests are diametrically opposed in capitalism. Hence, class division. It's the fundamental division of capitalist society.
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That's not my major personal issue. Its my major academic problem and why I think it's wrong and Marx didn't get it right when he said history is just class struggles. I don't think history shows it to be true.

Other divides are more important than class differences and its not just the upper classes distracting the lower classes to prevent some hypothetical revolution. Marxist theory asserts this but I don't think has any evidence of it. It also isn't exclusive to capitalism as non capitalist countries have used divides to further cement their power.

Cultural, racial, religious, gender differences all are often far more important than your 'class'. Marxism disagrees with that. If you start from a faulty premise your gonna come to faulty conclusions. Like I said I think Marx's observations about class are set and founded in the European experience.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
kingkitty said:
I predict that more gay marriages will be legalized. Heterosexuality will plummet to an all time low.
Click to expand...

Has the divorce rate spiked in Utah yet? I figure marriages are imploding left and right by now. Probably not enough time for good data but there's gotta be some anecdotal reports at this point.
 
empty vessel

empty vessel

Member
APKmetsfan said:
Cultural, racial, religious, gender differences all are often far more important than your 'class'. Marxism disagrees with that.
Click to expand...

I disagree with that as well. Those divisions exist and are real but they are exploited for class reasons. For example, I agree with you that race is a big reason why the US looks the way it does in terms of its weak social services and conception of the public good relative to Western European nations, but the only reason social services and conceptions of the public good are in fact weak is because it is desirable to the ruling employing class. Race divisions are useful to (and therefore exacerbated by) class war, i.e., keeping labor bargaining power and political power low. The entire Republican base has effectively been rendered useful idiots for the employing class by their xenophobia. It's not that their xenophobia is not real, but that it is encouraged, played upon, and ultimately parlayed into political power by the ruling employing (corporate) class, or at least the more extreme faction of it.

This is what makes progress for the working class so difficult in capitalism. Not only do responsible members of society have to advocate for the class interests of the exploited worker, he or she also has to fight on all of the other egregious fronts that the employing class exploits (race, religion, sex, orientation etc.). It would be entirely too easy if the only fight was over class (99.9% of the population against 0.1%).
 
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