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How does Nintendo justify canceling the revolution?

Thrakier

Member
Did the revolution fail? Obviously it didn't at least sales wise. Although from a gamers perspective, the Wii as a console kinda failed, but I don't think motion controls are the primary reason for that.

I keep asking this myself, because I'm left with the impression so far that Nintendo doesn't touch this topic at all (they have their reasons I guess) and nintendo fans kinda ignore this, most hardcore gamers are happy about it anway I guess.

So we had this big thing in 2006 with "revolution" and all that and how motion based gaming will change gaming forever and Microsoft and Sony were urged to do the same thing and ultimately released Kinect and Move. All the Nintendo Fans were like "well that's the only way to play games now" and now it seems like they are happily going back to just Dual stick controls (watching the feedback in the ZombiU thread f.e.).

Now I'm fully aware that you can potentially use the Wii Controller with the WiiU, however that brings several problems with it. There is no way you can combine WiiU and Wii Control in a way that it isn't getting in the way of the overall gameplay experience. Switching the controller every few minutes would be just too inconvient. So maybe you can choose to play ZombieU only with the WiiMote, essentially that would make the WiiU something like a WiiHD, the console most hardcore gamers expected 6 years ago and from a technically perspective it's six years old again. So as a WiiU owner you would be more or less in the same situation as with Wii in 2006, however as a bonus you would also miss out on the "WiiU" experience because of choosing the Wiimote as primay controller.

Or you go back to traditional controls and cancel the Wii revolution.

My personal opinion is that I don't get the Nintendo strategy at all. They build that new huge market. Motion controls appealed to the casuals because it seemd intuitive. All what Nintendo said and did back then was right and it worked for them. Now they are cancelling that whole new trend by building something which is even *more* complicated than what they had with the Gamecube. But while the Gamecube was technically great for its time, the WiiU hardware again doesn't appeal to hardcore games too much, because in 2 or 3 years from now on (max) it'll be the Wii-situation all over again.

I fully expected Nintendo to innovate on the motion controls. I don't think they are doomed or anything, they'll still sell their mario stuff. But I do think they won't be able to replicate the Wii success with WiiU, not in the slightest. And I do not see the strategy and the clear thought behind WiiU, which was so impressive with the Wii. Back then I thought the Wii was the very result of sharp minds and good thinking. Considering the WiiU concept I do think that it was just luck.
 
Most non-gamer gamers who started with the Wii migrated over to iPhones and iPads etc. and Nintendo probably thinks they're not coming back.
 

ASIS

Member
oh please, stop it with the hyperbole. I agree that doing a next gen Wiimote would have been amazing. But the Wii U seems to have a handful of games supporting that controller anyway. What's the big deal?

The Wii U, in a way, is an extension of the original Wii plan. Nintendo didn't abandon their strategy, they just went to the second phase.
 

Thrakier

Member
Most non-gamer gamers who started with the Wii migrated over to iPhones and iPads etc. and Nintendo probably thinks they're not coming back.

I do think they added a touchscreen to their controller because maybe they think they can get them back this way?
 

Tenki

Member
Bv6Xw.jpg
 

Thrakier

Member
oh please, stop it with the hyperbole. I agree that doing a next gen Wiimote would have been amazing. But the Wii U seems to have a handful of games supporting that controller anyway. What's the big deal?

The Wii U, in a way, is an extension of the original Wii plan. Nintendo didn't abandon their strategy, they just went to the second phase.

How is choosing a completly different control scheme, which is basically the opposite of what was before (MORE buttons, no motion, huge and "complicated" for non gamers) considered a "second phase"? That would be like building a space rocket and in the second phase trying to change it so that it goes to the middle of the earth instead. :D

Isn't the Wii u wiimote compatible ?

You didn't read the whole first post, did you? ;)
 
The Wii U, in a way, is an extension of the original Wii plan. Nintendo didn't abandon their strategy, they just went to the second phase.

This.

See the thing about motion control is, not every game needs it. That was one of the Wii's major problems. So many developers felt forced to included motion controls which led to some really mediocre titles. Now, they have a much wider range of options. No problem here. Now games can be tailored according to the developer, rather than the controller.
 

PetrCobra

Member
The Revolution was about doing something nobody else is doing, something that changes the gameplay experience. That was achieved with a reasonable price of the hardware by keeping the graphics at levels lower than expected at the time of launch.

I do think they still believe in this direction.
 
So maybe you can choose to play ZombieU only with the WiiMote, essentially that would make the WiiU something like a WiiHD, the console most hardcore gamers expected 6 years ago and from a technically perspective it's six years old again. So as a WiiU owner you would be more or less in the same situation as with Wii in 2006.

wat.
 

Thrakier

Member
This.

Several titles are still using motion controls via the wii remote. Pikmin 3, one of the 'core titles', is using it as it's primary control.

Then you'll miss out the WiiU controller experience which is the main selling point of the WiiU, accroding to Nintendos marketing and PR.
 
Justify it? lol..WiiU still has the Wii name so its the revolution U..the revolution is still ongoing and will not be televised. That is all.

Then you'll miss out the WiiU controller experience which is the main selling point of the WiiU, accroding to Nintendos marketing and PR.
Pretty sure someone could replay it with yhe controller that comes in the box if they wanted to. Stop playing dumb.
 

Pineconn

Member
The revolution did not fail, because everyone I know who played an FPS on the Wii realizes that Wiimote controls trump the Classic Controller. Nobody disagrees.
 

ASIS

Member
How is choosing a completly different control scheme, which is basically the opposite of what was before (MORE buttons, no motion, huge and "complicated" for non gamers) considered a "second phase"? That would be like building a space rocket and in the second phase trying to change it so that it goes to the middle of the earth instead. :D

Check out Nintendo's disruption theory. Plus the touch controls are very intiutive as well. Probably not better than the Wiimote, but still good enough.

BTW. the pad does have motion plus, and as far as complex looks go... *looks at DS* ... yeeaaahhh.
 
Then you'll miss out the WiiU controller experience which is the main selling point of the WiiU, accroding to Nintendos marketing and PR.

No you won't. In Pikmins case, you can still choose to use the Upad if you want.

For other games that are motion required, you still won't miss out on the experience. There will be other games, games that are much better suited for that style of control.
 

PetrCobra

Member
Then you'll miss out the WiiU controller experience which is the main selling point of the WiiU, accroding to Nintendos marketing and PR.

Just as you are missing on the "selling point" of 3DS when you turn off the 3D. Which is something that many people are doing most of the time.
 

jwhit28

Member
Wii remotes already received a significant upgrade. As for Wii remotes causing people to miss out on the Wii U experience, does using a controller instead of mouse and keyboard make me miss out on the PC experience?

Its just another screen. If your game uses the Wii remote throw a map on the WiiU pad and provide a stand to prop it up.
 
You can't just use motion control for all types of games. This time around Nintendo is giving the option to developers to use traditional controls or motion controls. Just Dance 4 and Wii Fit U are good examples.
 
Then you'll miss out the WiiU controller experience which is the main selling point of the WiiU, accroding to Nintendos marketing and PR.

As some statements of the OP this argument is flawed as well. Where is the problem in adding another new experience to the system? Imagine the shitstorm, if the thing would be nothing more than a Wii HD instead. I really don't see the problem here...

Do you also have a problem with MS's smartglass approach?
 

pants

Member
The Nintendo revolution was and is going to be flip flopping between whatever they think will be unique, disruptive and make them money.
 

C.T.

Member
But the Wii U still got wii mote+ in the box so.........

Pure speculation. We don't know if a wii mote is included. I personally doubt that. There are so many wiimotes already out there and including one for free would cost Nintendo money.
 

Oxirane

Member
Everyone should go and stock up on WiiRemote+ before Nintendo pulls them off store shelves.

I'm sure there will still be games that benefit from the Wii controls.

There's also the asymmetric gameplay stuff.

With regards to games using dual analogue:
Hopefully pointer controls are still implemented in all suitable games for people who want to use them. If the touch screen is required, it's good that the nunchuck and WiiRemote are split so you can reach down and hit the screen. Also the new Zapper may have some interesting uses to incorporate wiimote and gamepad.
 

JordanN

Banned
But while the Gamecube was technically great for its time, the WiiU hardware again doesn't appeal to hardcore games too much, because in 2 or 3 years from now on (max) it'll be the Wii-situation all over again.
So... the Wii U is going to stop being HD and will rely on unconventional architecture (i.e TEV over Opengl)?

Sorry man but I cringe at when people bring up the Wii ordeal without doing research as to why it was and how no other console will ever compare.

And the Wii U gamepad has motion controls so it didn't go anywhere.
 

AOC83

Banned
Well the "this is new and exciting" factor of the WiiMote disappeared after a few years and it also failed as an alternative to the classic controls for core games. So Nintendo basically tries to catch the casuals with another gimmick .
 

NeonZ

Member
My personal opinion is that I don't get the Nintendo strategy at all. They build that new huge market. Motion controls appealed to the casuals because it seemd intuitive. All what Nintendo said and did back then was right and it worked for them. Now they are cancelling that whole new trend by building something which is even *more* complicated than what they had with the Gamecube. But while the Gamecube was technically great for its time, the WiiU hardware again doesn't appeal to hardcore games too much, because in 2 or 3 years from now on (max) it'll be the Wii-situation all over again.

The main issue is that for most things besides some basic actions, Motion controls are actually more complex than standard ones. So, most of their "big" casual motion games for a Wii U that kept the Wiimote in the center would be just repeats of their big Wii titles. If they just released a Wii with better graphics and Motion Plus or something slightly better than it, it'd never replicate the Wii's success either. I think they saw the limits of the Wii's "accessibility" pretty clearly with some of their core titles. Making something like Skyward Sword more based on motion sensing than Twilight Princess made it less accessible, not more. Even for FPS controls, there was clearly a huge resistance from core gamers, and even then players who liked them often had to rely on tweaking settings for each game, something that isn't good for an "accessible" mainstream console.

Now, the Wii U's launch line up as it is doesn't seem innovative at all, and that's where they might have made a misstep if they're attempting to go for an innovative hook again, but in some ways the WiiMote was a dead end and they made the correct (business) choice by sidelining it.
 

Currygan

at last, for christ's sake
the WiiU is compatible with the 'mote...if anything, they're evolving the revolution

why blame them if devs don't want to develop for it?


P.S. the new controller is WAY more appealing than the wiimote to me. I just love it
 

Thrakier

Member
No you won't. In Pikmins case, you can still choose to use the Upad if you want.

For other games that are motion required, you still won't miss out on the experience. There will be other games, games that are much better suited for that style of control.

That's what I'm saying though. You need to decide on one and then you are missing out on the other.

The revolution did not fail, because everyone I know who played an FPS on the Wii realizes that Wiimote controls trump the Classic Controller. Nobody disagrees.

That's exactly my point. If it's the superior control scheme, why is Nintendo not sticking to it but instead is going back to the inferior control scheme?

"It also supports Wiimote" isn't a valid argument. We won't be playing WiiU with a Wiimote/or the WiiU Pad for the next coming years. I don't think there is any chance that this will happen, only one of the both control schemes will survive and since the WiiU Gamepad is what Nintendo is focusing on, it'll be the Gamepad. Developers (even Nintendo themselves) will focus on the gamepad and try to develop innovative game concepts for it first and foremost.

Yes, the Wiimote still works but it's nothing more than a peripheral and it'll go the same way like other peripherals, see Kinect or Move. Some people will still use it, but the focus is on the gamepad. This is enough for me to say that Nintendo at least canceled the motion based gaming "revolution" and goes back to a more traditional style.
 
The Nintendo revolution was and is going to be flip flopping between whatever they think will be unique, disruptive and make them money.

between the 3ds & the wiiu, yes, this sums it up just about perfectly. we've entered the age of 'gimmick gaming' :) ...
 
oh please, stop it with the hyperbole. I agree that doing a next gen Wiimote would have been amazing. But the Wii U seems to have a handful of games supporting that controller anyway. What's the big deal?

The Wii U, in a way, is an extension of the original Wii plan. Nintendo didn't abandon their strategy, they just went to the second phase.
This could be a negative. If it's seen as a brand new system that focuses on dual stick layout and touch screen, then it could alienate the people who know the Wii for its motion gaming and simplicity. If it's an 'extension' of the Wii's plan, then some people will see it as a Wii 'add-on' like the Balance Board, and will not be impressed when they find out they have to buy a whole new console.
 

Thrakier

Member
So... the Wii U is going to stop being HD and will rely on unconventional architecture (i.e TEV over Opengl)?

Sorry man but I cringe at when people bring up the Wii ordeal without doing research as to why it was and how no other console will ever compare.

And the Wii U gamepad has motion controls so it didn't go anywhere.

It'll look outdated compared to newer technology. What we are seeing now is like 2007/2008 stuff. In 2015 this will be just old. If the arcitecture is unconvential or not doesn't matter here.

Motion controls in a gamepad...yeah, thats gerat. Just like the SixAxxis. Come on now.
 
Saying stuff like it still supports the wiimote is a bit unfair really. It's like saying well the wii still supported the gamecube controller.

To be perfectly honest, the whole "motion control revolution" stuff was most likely just marketing and hype speech and nintendo never really thought that it was going to take over the entire industry or anything. It was about being innovative and reaching a new market which is the same thing they are attempting with WiiU. Whether lightning will strike twice is yet to be seen.
 

NeoRausch

Member
Doesn't "Revolution" mean to do something new? Proof that you can change something?

Doing the same thing again and again wouldn't really be revolutionary, wouldn't it?
 

JordanN

Banned
It'll look outdated compared to newer technology. What we are seeing now is like 2007/2008 stuff. In 2015 this will be just old. If the arcitecture is unconvential or not doesn't matter here.

Motion controls in a gamepad...yeah, thats gerat. Just like the SixAxxis. Come on now.
By your logic, all consoles are the Wii since what they show will eventually be outdated to new tech. Although this statement is true, saying it's specific to Wii or Wii like is incorrect.
 

Thrakier

Member
/facepalm

*leaves trainwreck*

lol, what's your problem? When Sony introduced the SixAxxis everyone was like "lol motion controls in a gamepad how should that work, it's shit, a gimped version of the wiimote" (and they were right) and now, few years later it is "oh but motion control isn't gone, it's in the gamepad now"? That's double standards.
 
It'll look outdated compared to newer technology. What we are seeing now is like 2007/2008 stuff. In 2015 this will be just old. If the arcitecture is unconvential or not doesn't matter here.

Motion controls in a gamepad...yeah, thats gerat. Just like the SixAxxis. Come on now.
Ohhhhh shit lol..you are so out of it man.
 
lol, what's your problem? When Sony introduced the SixAxxis everyone was like "lol motion controls in a gamepad how should that work, it's shit, a gimped version of the wiimote" (and they were right) and now, few years later it is "oh but motion control isn't gone, it's in the gamepad now"? That's double standards.

Ever used gyro aiming in 3DS or Vita? No? No.
 
By your logic, all consoles are the Wii since what they show will eventually be outdated to new tech.

Tha'ts a bit of a stretch, consoles not looking like other stuff from newer generations isn't really anything new, but being that far behind your current gen direct competition is something we hadn't really seen to this extent before the wii and now the wiiu more then likely once we have more details on sony and MS next gen offerings.

Really though I don't think its going to be a big deal either way. Nintendo fans will still buy the WiiU as well as anyone else that is interested enough in the WiiU exclusive game library just like any other generation. The weird resurgence in console war mentality is something I had hoped wouldn't show back up with this coming gen.
 

Massa

Member
The Wii Remote was merely a tool, not the core of Nintendo's strategy. While it enabled software like Wii Sports, it wasn't essential to the design of Mario Kart, NSMB, Wii Fit, Guitar Hero and the rest of the Wii's software line-up that made it a popular system in the first place.

Just because they now have a controller with dual analog sticks doesn't mean they're chasing the 15-year-old male teen CoD playing market.
 

Thrakier

Member
Ever used gyro aiming in 3DS or Vita? No? No.

Yes I did, actually I don't think it's a proper replacement for pointer based aiming like Move/Wiimote. Also I think gyro based aiming would've been a possibility with sixaxxis also, so my comparison is perfectly valid.
 
"It also supports Wiimote" isn't a valid argument. We won't be playing WiiU with a Wiimote/or the WiiU Pad for the next coming years.

So it isn't a valid argument... because you can see into the future?

Didn't Miyamoto say that the Zelda: SS controls would be the controls for the future console Zeldas? I imagine some people on GAF will be playing those games...
 

Pixel_boy

Banned
Pure speculation. We don't know if a wii mote is included. I personally doubt that. There are so many wiimotes already out there and including one for free would cost Nintendo money.

It would be stupid to use the name Wii and not have a Wii mote in the box, and that would put up a wall that owners will have to get over. As well as making Wii mote a add on, I can't see Sony giving away Moves with PS4's but they should, unless they are dropping support.

Nintendo not dropping support for Wii motes
 

gogogow

Member
It'll look outdated compared to newer technology. What we are seeing now is like 2007/2008 stuff. In 2015 this will be just old. If the arcitecture is unconvential or not doesn't matter here.

It matters A LOT. BF3, I only have the PC version, but from what i've seen, it looks quite good on the PS3/360. Witchter 2 on the 360, Crysis 2? If it wasn't for the conventional GPU, none of this games would come close to the PC versions. Try to port BF3 to the Wii or PS2 and see how it's gonna look like and how much effort it's gonna cost to make it look not completely ugly. With the Wii U having a conventional GPU it's gonna be easier to downscale, the question is, are the devs gonna be interested to do it, once the PS4/NextBox hits.
 
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