Well, obviously it's just an assumption based on how that things worked out in the past. Either way, you'll always miss out on either the "WiiU" or the "WiiM+" experience, based on your decision. Also develpers will probably just focus on one control method. Can you really imagine that a lot of developers will release wiimote centric games on a console where the marketing is completly focused on a gamepad? Sorry, I just don't see that. So even if the revolution is not completly canceld out (that would be "we don't support the WM+ anymore") it's massively watered down to a point where it'll become redundant at some point in the future. Yeah, I'm pretty sure about that.
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How does Nintendo justify canceling the revolution?
- Thread starter Thrakier
- Start date
Well, obviously it's just an assumption based on how that things worked out in the past. Either way, you'll always miss out on either the "WiiU" or the "WiiM+" experience, based on your decision. Also develpers will probably just focus on one control method. Can you really imagine that a lot of developers will release wiimote centric games on a console where the marketing is completly focused on a gamepad? Sorry, I just don't see that. So even if the revolution is not completly canceld out (that would be "we don't support the WM+ anymore") it's massively watered down to a point where it'll become redundant at some point in the future. Yeah, I'm pretty sure about that.
What?
So getting all sorts of different games on a console a la PS2 including one of the best RPGs minus HD is fail? So you mean graphic whores, not gamers. Or maybe you meant shooter gamers. idk.
What?
You know that Wii U supports and uses Wii Motion+ controllers as well?
Having options is a bad thing? I mean that's what many people wanted: "give us traditional inaccurate controls, we are teh hardcore and we don't want anything new - give us the same each console generation - we don't like new". Now Nintendo gives that option in the standard Wii U controller and people complain again.
You don't make sense. The Wii already supported traditional controllers. Especially for VC releases. Of course for some games they were not supported. And I guess the same will be true on Wii U. Some gameplay is best played using Wiimotes for example Pikmin. In the Wii U case, I guess it will even be a hybrid of Wiimote + Wii U pad.
Also the Wii U pad has motion sensing and pointer controls as well.
Ah, you mean graphic whores, so actually just HD support? The market has proven that Nintendo was right. And the current-gen "HD" consoles have proven that as well, because most games are not even 720p native. And most of the games are 30fps at best and most of the time not even stable 30fps. Which actual "hardcore" gamers should actually despise.
But I guess I'm in a Wii U bashing thread.
abstract alien
Member
During an interview with someone from Nintendo back a few years ago(maybe Iwata), I remember him saying something to the extent of, "By the time our competitors have copied us, we will have moved in a completely different direction." I suppose it makes sense now, but I guess it would, hindsight and all.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
For motion or just because A + B + directional?
Also, where's the link for this thread? It has to be a meltdown of epic proportions.
You really believe that there will be Wiimotes AND a WiiU Gamepad in every box? Well...that'll be a rude awakening I guess.
It matters a lot to devs probably. But, as you already state, it's still downscaled. Graphics from 2008 in 2015 won't look more impressive just because the arcitecture of the console is conventional. I don't get the point you are trying to make. The graphics do look like the graphics look, no matter the architecture.
Motion in Zelda, and we only know 5 of the 12 mini games.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
I'm disappointed they aren't evolving the Wiimote design as much as anyone who saw its benefits for many existing genres is, but to say they're cancelling the revolution as if they went back to the GameCube controller is silly. They still have motion controls, they've added touch controls which can also be considered a form of motion too, and even still will support the Wiimote where appropriate. Not to mention giving a home console dual screens out of the box. If anything it's another revolution over just iterating on what they already had with the Wii. I do hope that in the future we'll see more Wiimote-like designs though. All they really need is better and slightly more numerous button placement and a more ergonomic design. Like, a dual Nunchuck Motion Plus setup instead of Wiimote + Nunchuck. Perfect for every traditional conventional game, yet more comfortable with the split design, and still just as workable with the Wiimote introduced benefits of pointer aiming and motion controls etc where desired.
The other consoles will also be downscaled compared to PCs a couple years down the line past their launch. All that matters is if it can actually have the games in decent form. Wii couldn't as things like the botched Dead Rising demake show. It had to be a completely different game (unlike say, the COD ports, which while clearly downgraded visually at least retained most of the gameplay). It just wasn't portable. If WiiU is more like 360 vs recent PC has been than Wii vs PS360 then of course it won't be considered the most powerful or as powerful but it will still compete just fine if it manages to have actual developer support, and who knows, maybe even hold back the others further reducing the difference, like the HD consoles have held PCs back.
Lol, yeah, if you think about it, that's really true.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Sooooo any ideas of what sony and microsoft will do with their next consoles?
This.
It's similar to the 3DS approach, which has 2 screens, a stylus, gyroscope and 3D, none of which are essential, but any of which can be utilised in a game if the developer feels like it.
A much more rounded idea than developers bolting motion controls into games that just don't need them, or splitting a traditional controller set up over the nunchuck and remote, which again felt forced die to not having as many buttons at your fingertips, forcing the use of gesture controls for stuff where a button would have been better.
I'm not saying motion controls were bad, just not necessary for all games, and actively made some of them worse.
What bearing does that have on this thread.
Anyways, they'll makes some kick ass consoles, and stick with the same controller.
abstract alien
Member
Except it does streaming of full console games and has NFC. Things the ds couldn't do, even with an update.
You can move one screen independantly from the other, it's more than a DS set up.
Of course they expanded on it.
The basic idea is a dual screen console that supports WiiMotes.
I'm breaking it down to the very basics.
Both the DS and WiiU are an extension of the GBA/GC connection that Nintendo did last gen anyways.
Eh....how are we gonna get games without devs? Not "probably", it matters A LOT.
So you are saying the PS3 without the conventional nVidia RSX and 360 withouth the AMD GPU would have zero problems getting games like BF3 ported and looking quite close to the PC version?
That was just some examples of games being downscaled from superior hardware to "inferior" hardware, PC with a GTX580 to a PS3/360 with BF3 etc.
But you know, there are also gonna be games made for the Wii U, not ports etc. which will/can look great once they start pushing the console. No matter how "old" the tech is. PS4/720 won't be using the latest GPU or whatever. If you think the PS4/720 are gonna use 2013 tech, you are just setting yourself up for dissapointment.
game with 2006 HW in 2006:
game with 2006 HW in 2011:
Snowden's Secret
Banned
OP is a blockhead.
Yes, the main focus of the Wii U is not the OG Wii controller, but the option is provided for devs who still want to use it in the Wii U. The hi-lariously impotent dismissal that it would be cumbersome to switch between the pad and controller is really missing the point. Most games won't have you going between both schemes at all. You'll probably be able to decide from the get-go (or in a menu) which scheme you'd use.
In fact, not all Wii U games will use both screens at once (because that would negate the point of being able to play the game portably), so why are you so adamant that you'd need to use the second screen at all while you're using the pointer?
As for "not using the pad just makes this a WiiHD", you crasy. You've created a scenario where Nintendo can do no right. If they drop the pointer they're somehow "abandoning the revolution! :O", if they keep it "it's only a WiiHD, hehehe" -_-
Sure, you can question the focus of their new console, which is undoubtedly on the pad instead of the pointer, but a similar thing happened with the 3DS. The 3D took precedence over the touch screen and stylus, but both options are still available (and work harmoniously).
A new gen needs a new focus, or else people think it's the same old thing.
Yes, the main focus of the Wii U is not the OG Wii controller, but the option is provided for devs who still want to use it in the Wii U. The hi-lariously impotent dismissal that it would be cumbersome to switch between the pad and controller is really missing the point. Most games won't have you going between both schemes at all. You'll probably be able to decide from the get-go (or in a menu) which scheme you'd use.
In fact, not all Wii U games will use both screens at once (because that would negate the point of being able to play the game portably), so why are you so adamant that you'd need to use the second screen at all while you're using the pointer?
As for "not using the pad just makes this a WiiHD", you crasy. You've created a scenario where Nintendo can do no right. If they drop the pointer they're somehow "abandoning the revolution! :O", if they keep it "it's only a WiiHD, hehehe" -_-
Sure, you can question the focus of their new console, which is undoubtedly on the pad instead of the pointer, but a similar thing happened with the 3DS. The 3D took precedence over the touch screen and stylus, but both options are still available (and work harmoniously).
A new gen needs a new focus, or else people think it's the same old thing.
evilromero
Member
I hope FPS games still use the wiimote and nunchuck. It's the best method in my opinion.
Well...that's not the point I'm trying to make. I'm saying that WiiU probably will look old compared to PC, XBOX and PS next. If I get you right you are saying that this won't happen because great architecutre automaitcally brings the WiiU on par with platfomrs which do have a (probably) generic arcitecture as well but also a lot more power. How does that work?
Thanks junior. Could we now go on without insults? There really is no need for that.
Well, but that's *exactly* my point. *Because* it would be too cumbersome to change the controls, devs will go the "just one control" way more often that not and try to center the experience around the WiiU Gamepad, not the Wiimote. Therefore, the Wiimote is a thing of the past. That's exactly what I'm talking about.
Well, I stated in the opener what would be a "do it right" secnario for me. Stick to your superior control scheme and try to innovate on this. There is still a lot of potential left. Instead they went for a very different route which is more back to the roots than anything.
That's the whole point of the OP, that's what I said. That's why I questioned if Nintendo got rid of their own "revolution" (e.b. motion based gaming) which was supposedly to change gaming once and for all. That's what they said six years ago. And now they relase the WiiU with a heavy focus on a gamepad.
WEird thing is that we are probably agreeing in all thing, but you still call me a blockhead.
To the best of my knowledge it does.
Otherwise that golf demo couldn't work the way it was shown.
Silly comparison. Every 3DS system comes with the tools included for touch+stylus+3D at the same time (to say nothing of the fact that the 3D is a visual effect, not a controller option). Unless the Wii U comes packed with a wiimote AND a wiipad both, only one is going to get used in any significant fashion.
We always have this same discussion when peripherals are released for systems. People go "oh man such and such is really supporting the peripheral, therefore it's bound to be used!" But, the answer is that never happens. It didn't happen with the Wii Fit Pad, it didn't happen with the Motion+ add-on, it didn't happen with the Move, and the only reason it even happened a little with Kinect is because Microsoft spent 5 trillion dollars marketing the shitty thing. And even then, the games being developed for it remain third tier shit that most developers don't bother with. If the peripheral of discussion is not packed in, nobody gives a shit.
Unless the wiimote is packed in, any nod to the fact that the system uses it is pointless. Most developers will not end up utilizing it. And no, it doesn't matter how many wiimotes are out in the ether - developers are not going to significantly make games for a controller that their userbase may only hypothetically have.
Now, if Nintendo decides to pack in the wiimote, that's a different story. As it is, like every non-central controller, the wiimote will be a fourth fiddle device by the end of the Wii U generation. That is to say, it's probably easy to have the controller be used as a secondary controller device option, but games designed around it specifically (in other words, where the gameplay would only function with the wiimote properly) will be gone altogether by the end of the first or second year of Wii U.
Obviously, Nintendo is taking a step backwards. I blame 3rd party developers for moving from the radically different Remote&NunChuk design back to a more traditional approach that includes motion controls and a screen. Sadly, the best part of the Wii Remote, the pointer, fails to be part of the system's main control device. But it looks like Nintendo is already 'emulating' the pointer with the help of motion controls, they've already done this in Skyward Sword ... and well, it was inferior to the 'real pointer'. Pikmin 3 is also using this Motion+ pointing.
Yes, otherwise the Wii Golf demo wouldn't be possible.
I actually wonder how they will deal with motion drift. Are they using more advanced technology than Motion+, which needed constant re-calibration/re-centering?
Yes, otherwise the Wii Golf demo wouldn't be possible.
I actually wonder how they will deal with motion drift. Are they using more advanced technology than Motion+, which needed constant re-calibration/re-centering?
TheGreatDivide
Banned
Because the public has rejected Wiimote controls in retrospect. They're up there with plastic guitars and 3D.
Snowden's Secret
Banned
Agreed. I haven't seen a game that uses/supports any of these peripherals (Balance Board, Classic Controller, Kinect, Move, Motion+, etc) released in years.
The thing is, you don't quite know what you are talking about. All launch Nintendo games use the wiimote in some form. Pikmin 3 uses the pointer, as well as Game & Wario. Nintendo Land uses the motion. Mario uses the wiimotes on the side.
Wiimotes everywhere, in all kinds of set ups.
SirIgbyCeaser
Banned
Wii motion plus+ is the standard controller now and I think it could work that way.
On par? No idea where you are getting that from. I've been using words like "downscaling", "coming quite close" etc. But yet you took it as "on par"? Really? In your own words: How does that work, indeed.
Good point on the whole 3DS comparison. It's not the same situation, but I mentioned it because this conversation echoes several of those that occurred early on in the 3DS' lifetime regarding the stylus and touch screen.
And it is undeniable that the lessened emphasis on touch screen controls for the 3DS represents a shift in focus comparable to that of the WiiU, even if it manifests in software on one and in hardware on the other.
As for the prevalence of the Wii Remote in the Wii U, it is true that the relative unpopularity of the WM+, as well as the presence of newer control options could serve to lessen or eliminate the usage of pointer controls into the WiiU's lifetime, however, Nintendo seems determined- at least for now, to make it seem like a really viable option. They have pointer capabilities in several of their launch titles and are actually demoing them alongside the pad (when they could use that opportunity to show off the pad's capabilities alone).
It seems like they're not ready to drop the pointer just yet, but only time can tell if they succeed. You can't really say for sure how it will turn out
Edit: My blockhead comment wasn't serious XD
So there is a sensor bar. GamePad is made to work with wiimotes.
As I understand, his problem is that we cannot use both control devices at the same time. Thus you either have the Wii U gamepad, which is a step back to a more traditional design, or you have the Wii Remote Plus, but then you cannot experience the second screen.
(Don't some games like Pikmin allow you to use the Wii Remote and still have a look at a map on the Wii U gamepad?)
Btw, Pikmin 3 uses the pointer only for re-centering. Thus motion drift should be minimised. As the Wii U gamepad has no pointer, some people who tried this control method encountered the issue of motion drift.
Pikmin 3 uses the wiimote + the GamePad as a 2nd screen indeed.
And you actually have to use the GamePad for more than just looking at it?
That was rhetorical. I didn't get the point you were trying to make. I think the tech difference will be pretty big. The difference between Wii and 360/PS3 would've been also pretty big if the Wii would've had a better architecture. Maybe not as big (obviously), but still.
You got it wrong with your OP, as you saw in this thread wiimotes are not a thing of the past. Lots of Wii U games use it or even require it.
This new question you ask is whether offering a display of the full map on the GamePad is useful or not. I think it's a nice option to have in a RTS game (if Pikmin can be labelled this way).
Exactly - Nintendo went blue ocean on Microsoft and Sony. Their trying to repeat this once more.
TheGreatDivide
Banned
Which Wii U games require a Wiimote
At this point, wheren isn't even such a thing as "lots of WiiU" games. We'll see what the future bringts but as Amirox already stated in much better english than I'm capable of: Two devices is one too much. It won't work and the market will get rid of WM+ and motion gaming (if Sony and MS don't go that way).
Just Dance 4, as I said above. This one can't be played without a wiimote.
You could play 2 of the 5 minigames with the GamePad alone, but the 3 best ones (and most important ones to show what Wii U asymmetric gameplay is about) require wiimotes indeed.
Wii U Sports, Nintendoland
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
Some people still don't understand what the revolution was about.
It was not about motion controls, it was about bringing an underserved market to gaming, and it was a complete success.
Thanks to the revolution, gaming in general is viewed with other eyes, it's now socially accepted that you spend some time gaming, you can have gaming parties with normal people now (you know what I mean), some people claimed the wii helped them get laid, etc.
The motion controls were an instrument so normal people were not afraid of the complicated traditional dual analog gamepad.
It was not about motion controls, it was about bringing an underserved market to gaming, and it was a complete success.
Thanks to the revolution, gaming in general is viewed with other eyes, it's now socially accepted that you spend some time gaming, you can have gaming parties with normal people now (you know what I mean), some people claimed the wii helped them get laid, etc.
The motion controls were an instrument so normal people were not afraid of the complicated traditional dual analog gamepad.
TheGreatDivide
Banned
First thing I could find on Google
"The player uses the Wii U controller or the Wiimote to mimic the movements of the on-screen character, in an effort to achieve a perfect score"
You sure? Releasing a game for Wii U that requires the Wiimote would be suicide.
Both REQUIRE a Wiimote? As in, are unplayable without one?
Right. And what are those normal people playing with in the future? WiiU? I don't believe it.
You are missing out on different game modes, but technically both can be used with the Wii U Gamepad only.