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Hillary to sidestep democratic process by claiming phantom delagates

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Zenith

Banned
Despite saying herself last year that Michigan & Florida votes shouldn't count for anything she's now trying to claim the delegates there, even though Obama wasn't even on the Michigan ballot so no one could vote for him.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...n-vows-to-claim-phantom-delegates-782564.html

Worried Clinton vows to claim 'phantom' delegates

Friday, 15 February 2008

The Hillary Clinton campaign has served notice that it expects to claim delegates theoretically garnered in primary votes in Michigan and Florida even though the contests in both states were declared void by the Democratic leadership long before they were held.

The highly controversial gambit reflects growing concern in the Clinton camp that her rival for the nomination, Barack Obama, may be pulling far enough ahead to be beyond her reach. Yesterday, David Plouffe, Mr Obama's campaign manager, said it had become "highly unlikely" that Mrs Clinton could now prevail.

But reclaiming the "phantom" delegates from Michigan and Florida could potentially tilt the race back in her favour. Last September, both candidates pledged not to campaign in either state after they defied party rules by leapfrogging their primary votes into January.

Democrat voters went to the polls in both states anyway, in very large numbers in Florida especially, where Mrs Clinton won by a 50 per cent to 33 per cent margin. In Michigan, she also came out on top, but was the only candidate with her name on the ballot. The other choice was "uncommitted".

Since the coast-to-coast contests of Super Tuesday on 5 February, Mr Obama has won eight states to Mrs Clinton's zero. According to latest estimates, he now has about 50 more delegates than her bound for the party's August convention in Denver, if you include so-called "super-delegates" – members of Congress, governors and party grandees – who have so far endorsed him.

Mr Obama is expected to win votes next Tuesday in Hawaii (where he was partly raised) and Wisconsin. On 4 March come two key states, Texas and Ohio, which have become Mrs Clinton's firewall against final disaster. A Quinnipiac University poll last night showed her still retaining double-digit leads in the two states. Mrs Clinton campaigned in Ohio yesterday.

There remains the strong risk, indeed, that come the summer convention, neither candidate will have assembled the necessary 2,025 delegates to claim the nomination. Hence the furious lobbying of the nearly 800 super-delegates headed to the convention.

But now Florida and Michigan become crucial. The national party continues to insist that no delegates from either state will be welcome in Denver. Keeping them out of the hall will project an image of party division, however. Democrats in both states say they are being unfairly disenfranchised.

"We believe those should be counted at the convention," Mrs Clinton's field director, Guy Cecil, said in a conference call with reporters. "The issue of the votes in Florida and Michigan – that has to be resolved." This is a clear reversal of positions Mrs Clinton took earlier and the Obama team is crying foul.

"Now, when they believe it serves their political interests, they're trying to rewrite the rules," said Mr Plouffe. "Now, at the 11th hour, the Clinton campaign is trying to rewrite rules that were firmly established, and I don't think there's a lot of appetite for that."

In fact, it is an argument that is already splitting the party. Julian Bond, the leader of the National Association for the Advancement of Coloured People (NAACP), told the Democrat Party chairman Howard Dean that ignoring Florida's votes would be reminiscent of the "sordid history of racially discriminatory primaries" in the state.

But Al Sharpton, a former presidential candidate, wrote to Mr Dean saying that changing the rules of the game now would constitute a "grave injustice".

Ultimately, the decision on whether or not to seat the delegates from the two states will rest not with Mr Dean, but with the party's convention credentialing committee. Its members will only be spared an agonising decision if one of the candidates manages in the final stages of the primary-caucus season decisively to break free. If Mr Obama's winning streak continues, then the arguments over Florida and Michigan could become moot.

Michigan and Florida: a mighty mess

Is Hillary Clinton right to lay claim to the Michigan and Florida delegates?

She is on extremely thin ice. In Michigan, Mr Obama was not on the ballot. Speaking last October about Michigan, Mrs Clinton said: "It's clear, this election that they're having is not going to count for anything". Has she forgotten?

How many delegates are we talking about?

Based on Mrs Clinton's winning margins, she could theoretically be entitled to 73 delegates from Michigan and an additional 105 from Florida. Mr Obama could claim 67 from Florida, but in Michigan 55 delegates would be awarded to the "uncommitted" vote. (Remember John Edwards was still around back then.) It is possible that Mrs Clinton could gain a net 100 delegates. In this race, that's huge.

What will the Democrats do?

The party desperately wants to avoid a scene in Denver with delegates from Florida and Michigan locked out. But it can't easily back down, particularly if to do so ends up making all the difference in favour of Mrs Clinton. Some party officials are discussing asking both states to start all over again with party caucuses. Yes, it's a mighty mess.

Wow, she's so morally upstanding. I can't wait to have her running the most powerful country in the world.
 

Alien Bob

taken advantage of my ass
Xisiqomelir said:
I want to see Hillary supporters explain why we can't use "bitch" and "cunt" to describe her after today.


Because even though she doesn't really look or smell like a woman, she still is one.
 

Triumph

Banned
She can claim them until she's blue in the mouth and it won't matter. The decision to seat them will be made by a committee of the DNC that doesn't even exist yet. The make-up of said committee will be determined by who has the most pledged delegates outside of FL and MI.

So basically, if Obama has the lead he gets to decide the make-up of the committee and they won't seat FL and MI unless it wouldn't matter to the results. If Hillary does, then she gets to decide the make-up and she'd seat them anyway. Either way, won't matter. This is just a naked attempt to put off the inevitable.

Finally, as I showed here even if the FL and MI delegations were seated, all it would do would be to knock Obama's lead in pledged delegates from 134 to 78. She still wouldn't take the lead as it stands now and would have to win big the rest of the way just to barely catch him.
 

Xisiqomelir

Member
Alien Bob said:
Because even though she doesn't really look or smell like a woman, she still is one.

Eyah. When I read about historical murderesses, lunatic queens and the like, I have no problem using those words.
 
Seriously... this is truly fucked up. You can tell her motivation to become president has nothing to do with what will be best for this country but with what will be best for herself.

She is power hungry. And deserves to be ridiculed by the media for her attempts to undermine the democratic process.
 

mrmyth

Member
This is a great way to win the election, because Michigan and Florida outweigh the entire rest of the country.
 

killakiz

Member
kkkHillaryObama.jpg
 
Before all this I had considered voting for her had she somehow gotten the nomination, but over the course of the last 2 months I've been embarrassed for the Clintons and their behavior.

Those folks who say she will do anything for power, no matter the damage caused to the party or the country, were absolutely right.

Obama or abstaining (and back to being done with politics in general... again) come November.
 

Bulla564

Banned
As a disenfranchised voter in FL, let me star off by saying FUCK YOU to the Democratic leadership.

With that said, the only right thing to do is for the dems to pay out of pocket for new primaries in FL and Michigan, so that our votes can count (even if it doesn't change a thing).
 

Kusagari

Member
What a bitch. You know, I can handle her wanting the Florida delegates. But acting like the Michigan delegates are hers when Obama wasn't even on the BALLOT is fucking disgusting.
 

Xisiqomelir

Member
Bulla564 said:
As a disenfranchised voter in FL, let me star off by saying FUCK YOU to the Democratic leadership.

Surely you should be saying that to your state party leaders? The rules (and penalties) were pretty clear.
 

KRS7

Member
I'm really not liking the hypocrisy coming out of the Clinton campaign recently. Today I saw a Clinton strategist claim that having the super delegates go with whoever has the most pledged delegates would be unfair because it would be changing the rules mid-game. Yet at the same time they are saying that FL and MI should be seated. How is that not changing the rules? I was thinking I could still vote for Hillary if she won the nomination, but it is getting less and less likely by the day.
 

Triumph

Banned
Bulla564 said:
As a disenfranchised voter in FL, let me star off by saying FUCK YOU to the Democratic leadership.

With that said, the only right thing to do is for the dems to pay out of pocket for new primaries in FL and Michigan, so that our votes can count (even if it doesn't change a thing).
First, you should be saying FUCK YOU to your state's democratic leadership since they're the ones who decided to move their primary up knowing full well that this is what would happen.

I do agree that the DNC should cut this little brouhaha off at the head by offering to fund primaries in MI and FL, maybe in April or May. And sure, make it primaries since otherwise Clinton would cry over it.
 

AstroLad

Hail to the KING baby
Triumph said:
She can claim them until she's blue in the mouth and it won't matter. The decision to seat them will be made by a committee of the DNC that doesn't even exist yet. The make-up of said committee will be determined by who has the most pledged delegates outside of FL and MI.

So basically, if Obama has the lead he gets to decide the make-up of the committee and they won't seat FL and MI unless it wouldn't matter to the results. If Hillary does, then she gets to decide the make-up and she'd seat them anyway. Either way, won't matter. This is just a naked attempt to put off the inevitable.

Finally, as I showed here even if the FL and MI delegations were seated, all it would do would be to knock Obama's lead in pledged delegates from 124 to 78. She still wouldn't take the lead as it stands now and would have to win big the rest of the way just to barely catch him.

Right, this is basically a non-issue but it gives Hillary's underlings more bullets to shoot herself in the foot with so I guess at least it's funny. Also CNN can now dedicate an entire channel to superdelegate stories. FWIW, I think even suggesting do-overs in MI and FL is a terrible idea; this thing will never fucking end if people can legitimately cry for do-overs and that losing person will make it ugly.
 

gkryhewy

Member
Even Wolf Blitzer thinks this is bullshit. He ripped into a Hillary surrogate last Tuesday for making this suggestion. This is going to play very, very badly.
 
This is why I despise that woman. She holds nothing sacred she has no class or morals.

Seeing things like this is exactly why I believe she wont keep her promises in the White House because look how many she has broken thus far?
 

Triumph

Banned
gkrykewy said:
Even Wolf Blitzer thinks this is bullshit. He ripped into a Hillary surrogate last Tuesday for making this suggestion. This is going to play very, very badly.
Yeah, this is the beginning of the end for her. I could see undecided superdelegates flocking to Obama over this, and public opinion will be pretty fucking low on this one.
 

Mike M

Nick N
Phoenix said:
LOL, is that a real undoctored photo?
I would think so, but then my friend at work told me that the KKK had donated money to Obama's campaign. Don't know if he saw this picture, or what.
 

Phoenix

Member
v1cious said:
ufortunately

Mike M said:
I would think so, but then my friend at work told me that the KKK had donated money to Obama's campaign. Don't know if he saw this picture, or what.

Wow. When some KKK members (and apparently the KKK organization) would more readily endorse a black man than a white woman, you KNOW she will have some SERIOUS issues actually getting elected.
 
It's hard to believe that these people are members of the same party. Which is just incredible as the real, practical differences between the two actual parties are in most ways fairly marginal. Coming from a nation and political structure that has a true multi-party system, this whole situation seems more than a little bit absurd.
 

ToxicAdam

Member
gkrykewy said:
It would certainly hand McCain the election


Well, that depends on how bitter Obama supporters are. If they choose to stay home in November, it could help out McCain.

But, I argue that Obama will have an equally tough road to hoe with moderates in both parties as they will favor McCain because of his vast Senate experience, war experience and bipartisan tendencies. Things that play very favorably to the voting bloc that ends up deciding national elections.

You can't win, unless you win the middle.
 

gkryhewy

Member
Joe said:
any video of the wolf blitzer bit mentioned above?

No luck with Youtube.

ToxicAdam said:
Well, that depends on how bitter Obama supporters are. If they choose to stay home in November, it could help out McCain.

But, I argue that Obama will have an equally tough road to hoe with moderates in both parties as they will favor McCain because of his vast Senate experience, war experience and bipartisan tendencies. Things that play very favorably to the voting bloc that ends up deciding national elections.

You can't win, unless you win the middle.

I generally agree, but I think this will be an election where middle-left is far more energized than middle-right. Assuming this manipulative toad doesn't steal it.
 
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