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GAF Book Club (Sep 2011) - "The Master and Margarita" by Mikhail Bulgakov

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C

Cyan

Banned
wRAub.jpg


Speak of the Devil!


The Master and Margarita, by Mikhail Bulgakov

The devil descends upon Moscow in the 1930s with his riotous band, which includes an expert assassin and a demonic, gun-toting tomcat.

Disappearances, destruction and death spread through the city like wildfire and Margarita discovers that her lover has vanished in the chaos. Making a bargain with the devil, she decides to try a little black magic of her own to save the man she loves...

“Bulgakov’s The Master and Margarita is a soaring, dazzling novel; an extraordinary fusion of wildly disparate elements. It is a concerto played simultaneously on the organ, the bagpipes, and a pennywhistle, while someone sets off fireworks between the players’ feet.”
—NEW YORK TIMES


Recommended translation (Amazon Paperback)
Alternate translation for Kindle users
Probably available at your local library (look for the Burgin/O'Connor translation!).

Let's read!


Guidelines:
-Read at your own pace, and comment whenever you feel like it. If you want to discuss specifics, please use spoiler tags! [spoiler]text goes here[/spoiler]
-When using spoiler tags, please mark where you are--a chapter number is fine.
-Suggestions for the next book club selection are welcome at any time. We'll vote on the next book sometime near the end of the month.


Future Book Club Possibilities:
The Shadow of the Wind by Carlos Ruiz Zafón
Dubliners by James Joyce
Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy
The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco
Don Quixote by Pierre Menard
[your recommendation here!]


Previous Book Club Threads:
The Count of Monte Cristo, by Alexandre Dumas (Aug 2011)
Master and Commander, by Patrick O'Brian (July 2011)
The Happiness Project, by Gretchen Rubin (June 2011)
A Visit from the Goon Squad, by Jennifer Egan (May 2011)
The Afghan Campaign, by Steven Pressfield (Apr 2011)
Stranger in a Strange Land, by Robert A. Heinlein (Mar 2011)
Flashman, by George MacDonald Fraser (Feb 2011)
 
S

Screaming_Gremlin

My QB is a Dick and my coach is a Nutt
I don't know how I have missed these threads, but I will definitely participate. I am finishing up The Princess Bride tonight, but I'll start on The Master and Margarita later this week.
 
P

Prez

Member
I'll start reading this book this week.

A bit early for discussing the next book, but would everyone be okay with another French classic? I missed the topic about The Count of Monte Cristo and I'd like to read another book in French. I'm not very motivated to read and these topics help me get back into reading.

Other than that there's still Italian and Spanish literature. I've always wanted to read The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco and Don Quixote.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Wow, glad to hear the strong recs!

Stabbie said:
I'll start reading this book this week.

A bit early for discussing the next book, but would everyone be okay with another French classic? I missed the topic about The Count of Monte Cristo and I'd like to read another book in French. I'm not very motivated to read and these topics help me get back into reading.

Other than that there's still Italian and Spanish literature. I've always wanted to read The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco and Don Quixote.
Click to expand...
Never too early. Got any suggestions for a French book?
 
P

Piecake

Member
Cyan said:
Wow, glad to hear the strong recs!


Never too early. Got any suggestions for a French book?
Click to expand...

Les Miserables?

As for any old book, I recommend Hopscotch by Julio Cortazar. I doubt itll get voted since I dont think its very well known, but it really is a fantastic novel.
 
J

Jaladinozozo

Banned
oh yea i added the book you recommended to my favorites, it looks really interesting. i just need to get through the current 23 books i have to read for this semester first
 
P

Prez

Member
Cyan said:
Never too early. Got any suggestions for a French book?
Click to expand...

I was thinking of one of these:

- Victor Hugo - The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Les Misérables
- Gustave Flaubert - Madame Bovary
- Honoré de Balzac - Père Goriot
- Stendhal - The Red and the Black

If next month's book is not French, I could still think of so many classic French short stories and plays (30-100 pages) which could be considered an extra for readers who want more.

Btw Don Quixote is by Miguel de Cervantes ;)
 
A

AlternativeUlster

Absolutely pathetic part deux
Man, I wish I would be able to join you guys. I am doing set work from Friday until the 20th and then will have Fantastic Fest from the 22nd on to the 29th. My girlfriend got me this book as a gift (I got her Wise Blood) but still haven't had time to read it.
 
K

Keen

Aliens ate my babysitter
One of my favorite books ever! Will see if I can find my copy at my parents and I'll try to participate. Otherwise I can probably discuss a bit from memory, even if it was probably 5 years since I last read it.

First read it in college in a class called Deals with the Devil (awesome class btw), which was kinda surprising since it was a catholic university (not the reason I went there, not the least bit religious).
 
S

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
it's the book I grew up with. Read it two times per year until the age 14. Then one time a year until the age of 20. May be it's time to do it again?

photo6u3b.jpg


photocuwp.jpg


photo1u8g.jpg


photo3u9l.jpg
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
subversus said:
it's the book I grew up with. Read it two times per year until the age 14. Then one time a year until the age of 20. May be it's time to do it again?

photocuwp.jpg
Click to expand...
That's probably the ugliest (hence best) depiction of
Behemoth
, I've come across.
 
S

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
Edmond Dantès said:
That's probably the ugliest (hence best) depiction of
Behemoth
, I've come across.
Click to expand...

I can't think of a single good one. Somehow this cat looks good in imagination only. He's being in motion is a sight to behold (and laugh).

photo2bud8.jpg
 
E

Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
subversus said:
I can't think of a single good one. Somehow this cat looks good in imagination only. He's being in motion is a sight to behold (and laugh).

http://www.abload.de/img/photo2bud8.jpg[/IM][/QUOTE]

I like this slightly comical attempt by Nathan Clair for the Wordsworth Classics edition.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/XBn72.jpg
Click to expand...
 
A

arglebargle

Member
i had no idea gaf had a book club. ive read this one recently though, so ill sit it out. ill keep an eye open to see what the next on is though, as i may need a break from westeros after a song of swords. i started the series in early august and havent been able to put it down. the good news is there are thousands of pages published in the series.
 
P

Pau

Member
Went to the bookstore, and they didn't have the recommended translation so I'll just have to order it. It's times like these when I wish I could read more languages so I could read the original prose. :(
 
Guileless

Guileless

Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
I have never heard of this. Sounds intriguing. Downloaded the kindle sample to check out.

I would like to suggest ray Bradbury for next month. Two possibilities are The October Country, which is a short story collection, and the novel Something Wicked This Way Comes. Unfortunately there aren't Kindle versions, which is a major strike. But they should be widely available in libraries.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Man, kind of hard for me to remember to keep up without the milestones. Maybe we should go back to those next time...

I'm remembering now why I hate endnotes compared to footnotes. It'd be great to have in-line language explanations and such. As is, I have to flip to the back to even know there are explanations for particular lines.

Also, is it just me, or is "trust me, this makes sense in Russian and is really funny!" just not very satisfying?
 
J

John Dunbar

correct about everything
I read this book a few months back. I enjoyed it, and it had several wonderful moments (the Pilate parts were my favourite), but overall something felt kinda off, which I think is explained by how the book was written, assuming the introduction of my edition is to be trusted. It kinda felt too short for its scope, there being something missing to really make me feel it working as a whole (and I admit I have no idea why
they needed a witch called Margarita, seemed totally random to me. I remember a lot of the novel appearing to be that way. I don't mean to say being random is automatically a fault, but I guess attempting to read it as a satire of the Soviet Union made me look for things that weren't there, or went unnoticed by me
).

It really is a great book, but I would not call it one of the Russian masterpieces, like Tolstoy's 2 big ones, Dostoyevsky's best etc., which is how many seem to view it.
 
P

Pau

Member
Cyan said:
I'm remembering now why I hate endnotes compared to footnotes. It'd be great to have in-line language explanations and such. As is, I have to flip to the back to even know there are explanations for particular lines.

Also, is it just me, or is "trust me, this makes sense in Russian and is really funny!" just not very satisfying?
Click to expand...
There are endnotes? Fuck.

I'm about eighty pages in. I'm enjoying it, but I feel like the story still hasn't "started" if that makes any sense. So far the best chapter has been the Pontius Pilate flashback and
Ivan's interview in the mental clinic. Very funny.
It's much more absurd than I expected it to be, but really all I knew about it going in was that it was about the devil and written by a Russian author.
 
D

Dresden

Member
I've just gotten to the part in the asylum, haven't had much time to read because of, uh, other books. :<

I do think that the flashback or history lesson or whatever it was with Pilate is the highlight so far.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Still progressing slowly through. "Enter the Hero", 1/3 of the way in? Heh.

And no doubt it'll still seem random and all over the place after his entrance.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Cyan said:
And no doubt it'll still seem random and all over the place after his entrance.
Click to expand...
Yup!

Now I'm about halfway through (I think...), and have reached the Margarita section. Will it become even remotely like a standard narrative at this point?
 
A

alex chilton

Member
I've finally finished it today. It took me forever for some reason. I can say that I went into it expecting to love it, but I found it just sorta okay. The first half I loved but then it seemed like none of the plot was coming together and things just felt more confusing and unresolved as it went on.
 
M

MotionBlue

Member
Howdy, just popping into the thread after having it pointed out to me. Avid reader.

For next month, may I recommend:

'Lolita' by Vladimir Nabokov, a classic (controversial) book.

or

'I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream' by Harlan Ellison
 
S

Screaming_Gremlin

My QB is a Dick and my coach is a Nutt
Cyan said:
Still progressing slowly through. "Enter the Hero", 1/3 of the way in? Heh.

And no doubt it'll still seem random and all over the place after his entrance.
Click to expand...

I just got to this point. This has been a really tough month for reading, since a project I am on at work is about to go live and I have been putting in crazy hours. I should be able to catch up next soon, since I have a two week business trip. Between the flight and nights in the hotel I will have plenty of reading time.

As far as the book goes, it has been really strange so far. I honestly don't know what I think about it yet. I'm going to have to get a bit farther in the book.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
I'm now most of the way through, having just finished the ball sequence and returned to Pontius Pilate.

Well... yeah. Honestly, I think I would've enjoyed this a lot more if I'd known what I was getting into. I wasn't expecting this disjointed magical realism type thing. From the descriptions, I was thinking Catch-22 in Russia with Satan. Yeah, not really.

It was interesting how (Margarita bits through whatever chapter brings us back to Pilate)
Margarita was treated well by Woland and his crew, for really no reason at all except that her name was Margarita (Faust reference, I guess). I mean, she stands around at the ball and welcomes the guests, and her knee hurts. That's about all she does. Her decisions have no bearing on anything, she doesn't really have any power, she only gets the Master back because Woland likes her and randomly decides to help her instead of fucking up her life like he's done to everyone else. The only character who's done anything at all, really, is Woland. Or his cronies. Everyone who sins in his general vicinity gets fucked. Everyone who tries to stop him or involve the authorities gets sent to the cornfield.
Meh.

And it was so promising in the beginning.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Final review (spoilers, of course):

Given how widely praised this book is, I feel like there must be something in it that I've simply missed. It didn't do it for me.

The writing was solid, the backdrop interesting, the meta-fictional stuff was neat--but the whole thing just felt all over the place, random (it didn't help that there were fifty billion characters and they each had a Shakespearean plethora of names--the epilogue where we find out what happened to each of them only serves to drive this home). As I said in my previous post, I expected something like Catch-22 in Russia with Satan.

If only.

Neither the Master nor Margarita really does much of anything. The Master sits around and mopes about how no one likes his book, barely even being present for most of the novel. Margarita just does whatever Satan tells her to, hosting a ball for him and being nice to everyone. Her one moment of triumph is the compassion she shows for Frieda; other than that, it's all standing around obeying other people.

The bright spot in the book is the Pilate chapters. It's a fascinating take on the Resurrection story, which removes all the fantastic elements and says, "what would this story look like if it happened in real life, to ordinary humans?" Turning one of histories most vilified men into a sympathetic hero is no easy task, but Bulgakov accomplishes it.

The meta-fictional aspect of the story is also quite good. The Master created the headache-ridden, moon-obsessed procurator of Judea, the knight Pontius Pilate, but that Pilate is also real in some sense--he's still hanging around being tormented 2000 years later, waiting for release.

There's also a well-executed meta-fictional mind screw in the epilogue. As Bulgakov is recounting what happened to each of the characters from earlier in the book, he reels off a list of the people who were in the bizarre "hand in your foreign currency" theater. What happened to those people? Nothing, they never existed! Oh right, that all happened in a dream within the story...

On the whole, while I can see that Bulgakov is an excellent writer, I just didn't connect with the book. This may be in part my own fault due to having certain expectations that were entirely wrong, and it may be one of those books that I change my opinion of over time. Whatever the cause, this one didn't meet the hype.

Bring on the next book. This time, hopefully not a translated foreign work. :p
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Right, folks. Time to vote for our next selection! (feel free to keep talking about the current book if you have anything to say :) )

You'll note we've got a whole bunch of possibilities this time around, which makes it really hard to choose only one. So here's the deal. You can vote for either two or three books. If you vote for three, each vote is worth one point. If you vote for two, you can designate one as your first choice, which is worth two points. (if you only vote for one, I'll count it as two points as well.)

Please get your vote in by midnight Tuesday, PST. That's two days from now!


The choices:


The Shadow of the Wind by Carlos Ruiz Zafón


Blood Meridian: Or the Evening Redness in the West by Cormac McCarthy


The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco


Hopscotch by Julio Cortázar


Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury


Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov


Dubliners by James Joyce


Don Quixote by Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra


The Hunchback of Notre-Dame by Victor Hugo


Les Misérables by Victor Hugo
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Looking at that list, I'm pretty sure I'd be ok with any of these. It's good stuff all the way down.

That said, I don't really feel like reading another translation at the moment, which cuts out the last three. I don't really feel like something as... hrm... upscale as Nabokov or Joyce. Which leaves the first five. Bradbury... hmm, maybe not for the book club. I'd never heard of Hopscotch, but it sounds cool. I'll have to mark that down. And McCarthy, of course. Been meaning to read something of his for ages. But maybe not right now. ;)

So, my votes:
1. The Shadow of the Wind by Carlos Ruiz Zafón
2. The Name of the Rose by Umberto Eco
 
S

slider

Member
I don't post in these threads regularly (i.e. at all!) but, being a dumb-dumb, I have to say Eco's book was a bit of a slog. Just my opinion of course!

Also, as I'm here, I loved The Master and Margarita but it is a difficult book to connect with. If you've been to Moscow (which I haven't) some of the locales may mean something to you apparently.
 
F

faridmon

Member
Read it just 6 month ago. Wouldn't mind reading it again. I have to say the first half is way better than the 2nd half.

I missed the last one, because I was busy, I'll try to join in this one, as I actually own the copy of this book.
 
A

alex chilton

Member
I'm surprised many of you guys ended up not really liking the book much. I thought I would be the odd one out considering the high praise in the first few posts.

Anyway, I vote for The Shadow of the Wind. Been meaning to read that.
 
N

nakedsushi

Member
I already read Shadow of the Wind and Lolita (2 or 3 times!) so I vote for The Name of the Rose. I've been meaning to read that for a while but never really got a push to do it, so maybe this is it.
 
M

Mumei

Member
I would be interested in:

The Shadow of the Wind
The Name of the Rose
Lolita
The Hunchback of Notre Dame
Les Mis

Though the only one I'm actively disinterested in is Don Quixote, though, as I read that over the summer. And I'm not actually opposed to any of the others; I just don't know enough about them to know.
 
D

Dresden

Member
choice a. Blood Meridian or choice b. Hopscotch for me. I've read almost all the others and I'm not in the mood to start Hunchback.
 
C

Cyan

Banned
Mumei said:
I would be interested in:

The Shadow of the Wind
The Name of the Rose
Lolita
The Hunchback of Notre Dame
Les Mis

Though the only one I'm actively disinterested in is Don Quixote, though, as I read that over the summer. And I'm not actually opposed to any of the others; I just don't know enough about them to know.
Click to expand...
Pick 2 or 3, por favor.

If you pick 2, you can designate one as your first choice.
 
G

GusBus

Member
Started it this morning and really digging it. Great call on the Penguin edition as well; this thing is chock full of allusions that the footnotes clarified.
 
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