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[Mononoke]

Anti-IGN GAF League at work. Nevermind that the majority of that podcast was clearly finger wagging at MS for having a severe PR issue that they are unwilling to address (and shitting on the Kinect). Nope the real takeaway is some throwaway comment at the end of the videocast about one of the most misunderstood things in gaming.

I agree that there was more to the podcast than just that statement. But I think people are sick and tired of being told it doesn't matter. That the media has been lackluster in reporting on this sort of thing, or even acknowledging it. IGN is easily the biggest gaming site in this industry, and to hear some of their top editors casually saying it doesn't matter, it's just disheartening.

 

[EmptySpace]

you've all fallen into the trap. they got the clicks they needed to reach their target this month.

 

[KINGofCRA5H]

I hope this becomes a thing

but I really don't care.

This is exactly how memes are born.

It shall now spread like wildfire

I agree that there was more to the podcast than just that statement. But I think people are sick and tired of being told it doesn't matter. That the media has been lackluster in reporting on this sort of thing, or even acknowledging it. IGN is easily the biggest gaming site in this industry, and to hear some of their top editors casually saying it doesn't matter, it's just disheartening.

Boom.

 

[leadbelly]

It doesn't need to be stated because it is has been common knowledge for years that at normal viewing distances you need a TV around 46-50" + to see a noticeable difference between 720p and 1080p. This was back when people were debating if you should buy a 1080p TV and AV sites did tests to determine where you see the benefits of 1080p, and at 10 feet it was shown that a 50" TV is needed to see a noticeable difference between the two.

Just from being in enough living rooms over the years you can make a pretty good deduction on what a typical living room viewing distance is.

I knew as soon as I read the '1080p doesn't matter unless you have a 50" TV' that it was just a simplified version of what has been common knowledge for years. Yeah, the guy did not fully explain the point, it is just an average that should work as a good baseline for most setups, not a scientific rule.

Of course you can pick it apart, find plenty of cases where it is not true etc... etc... NeoGAF is not the target audience of this super simple statement as almost everyone here has more technical knowledge and experience with these things that this advice is useless for us and should not have even been commented on.

Real-time graphics isn't quite the same thing as blu-ray movies though. Sharper, crisper graphics with less aliasing would be noticeable from further away than resolution differences in movies. The typical problems you have with real-time graphics aren't really present in movies.

To get the most benefit from that resolution, the general viewing distances relative to screen size are still probably relevant though. The benefit of having higher resolution movies is that more detail is present. In that sense, whether it be movies or real-time graphics, more subtle detail will be less visible from further away. More subtle detail would probably be harder to pick up than the overall sharpness of the game's graphics.

 

[RazielCuts]

Hi, we are your customers, not the fucking enemy.

This. A thousand times this. I really don't get why the games journalism folk seem to have such animosity to the people they make content for. Yes there are some fuckwits out there who give you constant shit (deservedly at times) but don't paint us all with the same bloody brush!

 

[The Faceless Master]

Let's be honest -- this is no worse than any of the embarassing pro-PS3 nonsense that Shane "Sony" Bettenhausen tried to sling back in the 1Up Yours days. And he's still quite beloved.

People go on podcasts and say dumb things, get the facts wrong, don't remember stuff right, and/or state things disingenuously in the heat of an argument. I'm not sure if it's really that fair to say this is exemplary of game journalism any way - and if it is, that low was hit probably 7 years ago.

at least we only had one Shane last gen... this gen everyone wants to be Shane.

 

[Toki767]

I feel like it's a much bigger issue too. As someone that owns an Xbox One and actually enjoys it, it was a struggle just to discuss the crushed blacks and the sharpening filter. When you can't even talk about issues to "improve" the system you own, we have a problem.

That's the bigger issue. Any small critique of actual problems get called non issues or something only a vocal minority care about. Then when things are fixed it's okay to talk about how bad things were before.

 

[Chobel]

Now that's a slogan!

lol, this is perfect.

 

[shinobi602]

Resolution don't real. I am knowings it because science.

Can't be...

 

[Deleted member 80556]

Now that's a slogan!

God damn, this is better than "Have you seen Titanfall".

 

[Kosma]

Resolution don't real. I am knowings it because science.

#dead

 

[PaulExcellent]

And the gaming media continues to bail out their corporate masters.
I seriously can't wait for IGN's Titanfall review :lol

I don't think it'll be as bad as this shit.

I mean, it'll DEFINITELY be 9.5/10. For sure.
It'll be an amazing review full of "It's too good", but I feel like this might be a title where they'll actually provide a decent amount of information and insight to the score.

Titanfall is a huge game. Huge. Even with how biased they might be sometimes, I hope that IGN will review this game with a different approach than we might expect them to in terms of AAA games. They might not be the best review site, but IGN's influence is something to note.

Or I could be wrong and GTA5 again.

 

[CambriaRising]

Resolution don't real. I am knowings it because science.

Jesus Christ. Games Media is a fucking joke, now more than ever.

 

[Elginer]

IGN should tell their Xbox audience that you need a 50' TV to see the difference between the XBO and 360 versions of a game.

Cold blooded

 

[Logash]

But don't you know the feeling when you for example sit close to some guys in the cafeteria and they basically tell each other what they want to hear to feel good about they're poor buying decisions or lack of money or something like that, misinterpretating science facts and making up new ones in the process? Don't you want to go over to them, scream at them some, tell them that they are idiots while setting up your chalkboard and then giving them a lecture for that they can't have any stupid defenses against before finishing with the words "I'd rather be an honest sinner than a lying hypocrite!" and bow your thanks?

The point to be made here: It's ok not to give a shit about resolution, but if you DO then don't defend your crappy tech just to feel better about it - and most of all don't hand out a good portion of vicarious embarrassment to your listeners by doing it.

I get what you're saying and I get that feeling. In fact, I got that feeling watching this video when he said that too but man, talk about blowing it out of proportion. How do you know he was just saying it to defend his crappy machine? Maybe he legit thought it was true. Doesn't make him a shill and doesn't make IGN a bad site. If he put this thing up in an article then all this would certainly be called for but this is just a podcast. Say your point of view sure. Prove him wrong, hell yeah. But talk shit like he just killed your mother, that's just crazy.

 

[Averon]

I haven't been following this thread, but I guess that the press got something grossly wrong, refuse to admit their mistake, talked down to their readers, and are now patting each other on the back on Twitter?

 

[ItIsOkBro]

Reeks of Xbox apologism

 

[jambo]

My reaction to this whole article and all the stupid tweets afterwards

 

[hohoXD123]

I haven't been following this thread, but I guess that the press got something grossly wrong, refuse to admit their mistake, talk down to their readers, and are now patting each other on the back on Twitter?

Pretty much, though this time the person who made the mistake simply said that they don't care. Progress I guess.

 

[jaded_up_]

Anti-IGN GAF League at work. Nevermind that the majority of that podcast was clearly finger wagging at MS for having a severe PR issue that they are unwilling to address (and shitting on the Kinect). Nope the real takeaway is some throwaway comment at the end of the videocast about one of the most misunderstood things in gaming.

And what would be one of the most misunderstood things in gaming, then?

 

[The Faceless Master]

What I really dislike is seeing people, when they're called out on their bullshit, go on Twitter and say "Everyone relax lol, just repeating something I was told". You should do some basic research if you represent a respectable publication, the public have a right to expect that at least.

research? if you want Journalism, you need to quit reading about Videogames.

 

[Dr.Acula]

For the flip side of the coin, I'd also point out that Alex Albrecht used to say some ridiculously ignorant and ill-informed pro-Microsoft/anti-Sony nonsense on Totally Rad Show and Diggnation (and rarely got called out). But we didn't have to have a 20-page thread about it every time it happened. I just don't understand the insane, extreme ire over some dumb offhand comment.

But yes, part of the problem is that now instead of shutting up or clarifying an ill-advised comment, the person that makes it now often decides to go on Twitter and be snarky, condescending, or dismissive to any critics. Which is dumb, stupid, and terrible and makes me not want to even bother defending the silly thing they said. Gies-Syndrome is really messing up the community.

I don't know what Alex said, but two things.

One, GAF has gotten noticeably bigger over the last year. When you see someone bump an old thread, the old thread might have lasted a couple of days and gone to a few pages. This thread gained 4 pages in the time I ran out to buy milk.

Two, Dyer is commenting on a technological issue. If he said Kinect was a better experience than sixaxis who cares? He's arguing that resolution itself isn't that big a deal, which is objectively problematic.

 

[Zabant]

Big shout out to the GAF mods for allowing threads like this, where we hold people in the media accountable for their mistakes.

If you see anyone in the games press that has a beef with GAF, anyone that tries to write us off as a bunch of "dorks and crazies" 90% of the time you'll often find it's because we called them out on their bullshit in the past and they didn't like it.

 

[Qassim]

Anti-IGN GAF League at work. Nevermind that the majority of that podcast was clearly finger wagging at MS for having a severe PR issue that they are unwilling to address (and shitting on the Kinect). Nope the real takeaway is some throwaway comment at the end of the videocast about one of the most misunderstood things in gaming.

Yeah because it totally wasn't IGN that put out 3 minute video about these "throw away" comments.

It was IGN that put out this little snippet and titled it as so, not us.

 

[Yawnier]

Resolution don't real. I am knowings it because science.

Kyousuke Kousaka, you tried bro.

 

[alr1ght]

I haven't been following this thread, but I guess that the press got something grossly wrong, refuse to admit their mistake, talked down to their readers, and are now patting each other on the back on Twitter?

That's exactly right.

 

[Nokterian]

Resolution don't real. I am knowings it because science.

And another reason i don't visit websites like that. Because to me NeoGaf has provided me more information that is true but also honest instead of this.

 

[Alienous]

Yep, it looks like time to blacklist IGN.

They share too much of their idiocy with us.

 

[Portugeezer]

Exactly. Also, how else would Ryan score a gig with MS on the big show??

I talked about this in another thread.

They have little reputability, many of them would leave IGN to work for these game companies. IGN is just for putting their bullshit on a shop window.

 

[VeryGooster]

I continue to re-learn that gaming journalists can be very sensitive people.

 

[symmetrical]

There was an article about this subject back when 4k TVs started to be promoted that went into way more detail. Basically when sitting 10 feet away from a 50-inch TV, an average eye can't resolve an image the size of a 720p pixel. If you moved a bit closer and sat 8 feet away, the TV would have to be over 60 inches before you could tell the difference between 720p and 1080p.

That would be assuming it is about films.

Games are a different story.

 

[Brazil]

what resolution is this

This is the original:

This is the same image, resized to the equivalent of 720p and then upscaled:

You probably can't see the difference 6 inches away from your monitor!

 

[IAmRandom31]

Alright, fine, let's do some optics calculations.

• A 50" screen with a 16:9 aspect ratio is about 43.579 inches (1.112m) wide by 24.513 (0.623m) tall.
• At 1920x1080, the pixels would be 0.0227 inches (0.579mm) wide and tall. At 1280x720, they're 0.034 inches. (0.864mm)
• The typical resolution for a human eye with 20/20 vision is about 2 arcminutes per line pair.
• This means a feature is no longer resolvable when it's 10,801 times further away from the eye than it is tall/wide. (2 arcminutes / 360 degrees = 10801.08)
• On a 50" display with a 1080p resolution, individual pixels can no longer be resolved if the viewer is 20.432 feet (6.228m) away from the screen. For the same display at 720p, it's 30.603 feet (9.328m).

I'm sorry, IGN, but you'll need to retake this class. I'll be giving the lectures, and I'm requiring you to sit an additional 10.171 feet away from the whiteboard.

Flawless Victory.

 

[Kadin]

Step away to take care of some business and now I can't keep up...

I just find it really funny that you can state something so matter-of-fact and then when called on it, say you don't care. You don't care that you're wrong or that you got called on it? Or both?

 

[KojiKnight]

I get what you're saying and I get that feeling. In fact, I got that feeling watching this video when he said that too but man, talk about blowing it out of proportion. How do you know he was just saying it to defend his crappy machine? Maybe he legit thought it was true. Doesn't make him a shill and doesn't make IGN a bad site. If he put this thing up in an article then all this would certainly be called for but this is just a podcast. Say you're point of view sure. Prove him wrong, hell yeah. But talk shit like he just killed your mother, that's just crazy.

It didn't get really blown out of proportion till he went off on twitter... You may get stung by a wasp if you get too close to the nest, but you get stung a lot more when you throw a rock at it instead.

 

[OniBarubary]

With responses like the ones they post on twitter and the constant talking down to people, dismissal of issues due to the audience and refusal to address the actual concerns people have, instead making up an argument to attack and then dismissing it with a hand wave and snide comment what are they expecting exactly from people?

Hell, I'm pretty much all about the vitriol at this point considering that putting forth sound and researched arguments, addressing concerns and issues and trying to tell them that they're handling of these topics is both dangerous, hostile and misinformed all receive the exact same reaction.

Why wouldn't people feel such hate for them? They kinda earned it. (note that I am talking about reasonable hate, not death threats, tracking down home information or anything of that ridiculous nature).

 

[SirNinja]

what resolution is this

1080p after upscaling!

 

[gogosox8]

Love how Gies got dragged into this

"I was told a thing. Relax"

Seriously? Its like this guy never heard of this thing called google so that he could check and see if the "thing" was correct or not. SMH

 

[jond76]

I agree that there was more to the podcast than just that statement. But I think people are sick and tired of being told it doesn't matter. That the media has been lackluster in reporting on this sort of thing, or even acknowledging it. IGN is easily the biggest gaming site in this industry, and to hear some of their top editors casually saying it doesn't matter, it's just disheartening.

But if it really doesn't matter to them, are they supposed to feign outrage and create an issue where they don't really see one?

It doesn't matter to me either, and that will likely never change. If that makes you mad, its your problem, not mine. *shrug

 

[Luft Vanship]

Exactly. Also, how else would Ryan score a gig with MS on the big show??

OMG this can't be real and if so how the hell is this guy still employed as a journalist.

 

[TyrantII]

This is the original:

This is the same image, resized to the equivalent of 720p and then upscaled:

You probably can't see the difference 6 inches away from your monitor!

720 need a sharpening filter.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

I endorse a URL ban for Polygon and IGN.

 

[Atone13]

lol this is why I love GAF. Here I am enjoying some free time on a lovely Saturday afternoon watching a movie on my computer (obviously 6 whole inches away from the screen as to fully appreciate the HDe'ness of it). When I casually pop over to my second screen and load up GAF. Having so much fun reading this thread I missed the end of my movie...

 

[KnaveX]

Mitch Dyer: "a thing I was told" proceeds to state as a fact. You'd think they'd be careful with their jobs on the INTERNET. But i guess if GAF shits on you cause of your irresponsabilities you can always LOLGAF

 

[Uno Venova]

I haven't been following this thread, but I guess that the press got something grossly wrong, refuse to admit their mistake, talked down to their readers, and are now patting each other on the back on Twitter?

It's the DRM fiasco Reloaded.

 

[GeoramA]

This is the original:

http://i.imgur.com/Z1IED8W.png

This is the same image, resized to the equivalent of 720p and then upscaled:

http://i.imgur.com/6AVuHmN.png

You probably can't see the difference 6 inches away from your monitor!

I can see the difference.

But I really don't care.

 

[JDSN]

I forgot Ben Kuchera is working on Polygon now, its such a natural fit that it seems like a fantasy catastrophic line up of shitty writers from the far dark depths of Gamefaqs.

 

[Stop It]

Why do games journalist constantly go out of their way to prove they know very little about the industry they report about?

And why in the blue hells do we keep supporting these asshats?

Most of them are shills or idiots, or both. It's embarrassing.

I swear, in terms of entertainment journalism this industry must be scraping the barrel.

In film, we have people who scour films for flaws so hard it isn't even funny (Kermode in the UK, sure every country has a film critic who is well regarded and tough as nails), and they're generally more subjective than games. In the specialist music area you see people getting respect for being again very critical and calling out big names for slipping etc.

In games journalism? This shit flies, somehow. And don't get me started on the Twitter circle jerk. It just shows how many "journalists" have an us and them attitude, and only care about their paymasters and keeping friendly with the guys at big studios and publishers. Specifically for Polygon and IGN competing for the title of having the most anti consumer, reality denying people in the history of gaming? I have no words.

 

[nOoblet16]

I don't agree with the article at all however one thing you need to keep in mind is that when you run a game below the TV's native resolution, it will cause a blur due to upscale. A game running at 720p on a native 720p 22" screen will look much more crisp compared to the same game on a native 1080p 22" screen. Distance and native resolution of the screen matter quite a bit to be honest.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

Liar liar, pants on fire.