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Watch_Dogs downgradeaton confirmed

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GlamFM

GlamFM

Banned
Mlatador said:
People are upset and rightly so! This shitty practise of "Target Renders", in other words, "fabricated visuals to trick your customers into believing your game looks a certain way that's not representative of the final product" is pretty outrageous. EVEN MORE SO if companies have the nerve to sell those target renders as actual gameplay. This is deception at its finest!

Target Renders should be banned from previews/from the E3 stage once and for all.

OR they need to be labeled as such: "This is not real gameplay footage", "These are not the final graphics", "This is not running on target hardware" etc. Publishers should stop demoing those fake "target renders" with real console controllers, only to make it look like they are playing the game on target hardware. This is some borderline deceptive bullshit!

Do they think gamers are stupid and will never find out or be ok with it? Ubisoft deserve all the flak they get and hopefully serve as an example for other publishers, which clearly are to blame as well.

#SayNoToTargetRenders
#StopFalseAdvertisement
Click to expand...

^ Everything he said.
 
H

Havel

Member
Mlatador said:
People are upset and rightly so! This shitty practise of "Target Renders", in other words, "fabricated visuals to trick your customers into believing your game looks a certain way that's not representative of the final product" is pretty outrageous. EVEN MORE SO if companies have the nerve to sell those target renders as actual gameplay. This is deception at its finest!

Target Renders should be banned from previews/from the E3 stage once and for all.

OR they need to be labeled as such: "This is not real gameplay footage", "These are not the final graphics", "This is not running on target hardware" etc. Publishers should stop demoing those fake "target renders" with real console controllers, only to make it look like they are playing the game on target hardware. This is some borderline deceptive bullshit!

Do they think gamers are stupid and will never find out or be ok with it? Ubisoft deserve all the flak they get and hopefully serve as an example for other publishers, which clearly are to blame as well.

#SayNoToTargetRenders
#StopFalseAdvertisement
Click to expand...

This should be its own thread.

I want this fucking trend to stop.
 
S

Saint Gregory

Member
chadskin said:
History of Ubisoft Game Reveals: Watch Dogs Is Not The Only Game To Receive Downgrade In Visual

If that's the narrative going forward, then Ubisoft has a problem.
Click to expand...
Ugh, I never really followed the Far Cry series so that's the first time that I've seen that comparison video. It's pretty much on par with the differences between WD now and then in that the end result still looked good just nowhere nearly as good as the previous footage. I still don't understand why they do stuff like this since it's not like their games aren't impressive looking when they release.
Boogybro said:
This thread reminds me of ubisofts bullshit with Red Steel too.
Click to expand...
I think people cut them a break because they may not have had final Wii specs when they released the original bullshots. But, like everyone's been saying throughout the thread, this is a cumulative effect of Ubi's shenanigans that's causing so much outrage with WD.
 
K

knerlington

Banned
For fuck sake. How can anyone not realize that there are a lot of versions of this game. If it looks bad it's the Wii U, PS3 or 360 version of the game. If it doesn't. Current-gen or PC.
 
S

Shadownet

Banned
EatinOlives said:
Didn't someone at Ubi claim with 100% certainty that there was zero downgrade from the 2012 demo? I don't see how it's an overreaction if the preview you linked to says it's certainly a downgrade from 2012.
Click to expand...

Yeah a PR woman for Ubisoft made that claim.

Complete bullshit. She didn't even pick her words to give you a vague answer that she can backtrack later on if she need to.

She just give you a straight answer, which no PR person will ever do because they know the moment they say it, there's no going back.

"No downgrade whatsoever"

I can't believe this crap.
 
T

The Lamp

Member
Mlatador said:
People are upset and rightly so! This shitty practise of "Target Renders", in other words, "fabricated visuals to trick your customers into believing your game looks a certain way that's not representative of the final product" is pretty outrageous. EVEN MORE SO if companies have the nerve to sell those target renders as actual gameplay. This is deception at its finest!

Target Renders should be banned from previews/from the E3 stage once and for all.

OR they need to be labeled as such: "This is not real gameplay footage", "These are not the final graphics", "This is not running on target hardware" etc. Publishers should stop demoing those fake "target renders" with real console controllers, only to make it look like they are playing the game on target hardware. This is some borderline deceptive bullshit!

Do they think gamers are stupid and will never find out or be ok with it? Ubisoft deserve all the flak they get and hopefully serve as an example for other publishers, which clearly are to blame as well.

#SayNoToTargetRenders
#StopFalseAdvertisement
Click to expand...

Great post. I'm tired of this shit. It's actually amazing seeing posts in the Dark Souls downgradeton thread try to excuse this kind of behavior. This kind of deception is very misleading to customers. I'm not okay with it.
 
C

Cave Johnson

Member
Mlatador said:
People are upset and rightly so! This shitty practise of "Target Renders", in other words, "fabricated visuals to trick your customers into believing your game looks a certain way that's not representative of the final product" is pretty outrageous. EVEN MORE SO if companies have the nerve to sell those target renders as actual gameplay. This is deception at its finest!

Target Renders should be banned from previews/from the E3 stage once and for all.

OR they need to be labeled as such: "This is not real gameplay footage", "These are not the final graphics", "This is not running on target hardware" etc. Publishers should stop demoing those fake "target renders" with real console controllers, only to make it look like they are playing the game on target hardware. This is some borderline deceptive bullshit!

Do they think gamers are stupid and will never find out or be ok with it? Ubisoft deserve all the flak they get and hopefully serve as an example for other publishers, which clearly are to blame as well.

#SayNoToTargetRenders
#StopFalseAdvertisement
Click to expand...

Down with the BullPlay promotion!
 
S

SystemBug

Member
but they weren't target renders.........

the 2012 E3 Demo wasn't targeted towards next-gen consoles, they never said it was for next gen consoles at the time.

A lot of people here still think that game dev is just a set process. things change, complications can rise. its iterative, things can look better, or things can look worse.
 
C

Cave Johnson

Member
SystemBug said:
but they weren't target renders.........

the 2012 E3 Demo wasn't targeted towards next-gen consoles, they never said it was for next gen consoles at the time.

A lot of people here still think that game dev is just a set process. things change, complications can rise. its iterative, things can look better, or things can look worse.
Click to expand...

Dev time + Budget = Better Visuals. Who throws away money to downgrade?
 
K

KingFire

Banned
Somebody has to sue at this point. This is false advirsment. Simple.

I personally cancelled my pre-order. Not because the game does not look as impressive, but because Ubisoft deceived us all, and I refuse to support such a company.

I am not asking you to do the same, but if you are here bitching about it yet you are still going to get this brand new, then you are a part of the problem.
 
K

KingFire

Banned
Cave Johnson said:
Dev time + Budget = Better Visuals. Who throws away money to downgrade?
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. They probably were trying to maintain a high fps with that level of image quality. They couldn't. So a downgrade was the only option.

Also, the game is coming out on so many platforms, which always complicates things vs. releasing on one console.

Still, that doesn't change the fact that Ubisoft deceived us all.
 
C

Cave Johnson

Member
KingFire said:
Not necessarily. They probably were trying to maintain a high fps with that level of image quality. They couldn't. So a downgrade was the only option.
[/LIST]
Also, the game is coming out on so many platforms, which always complicates things vs. releasing on one console.

Still, that doesn't change the fact that Ubisoft deceived us all.
Click to expand...

SystemBug said:
That's really simplifying the process.
Click to expand...

It is. Even if the consoles can't handle it (ironically for a cross-gen game), then I don't understand why they do not advertise it in the best possible light which is the PC. Not to mention the hardware went significantly higher in the past 2 years in development so there's no more room for "compromises" or "iterative" process.
 
S

SystemBug

Member
Cave Johnson said:
It is. Even if the consoles can't handle it (ironically for a cross-gen game), then I don't understand why they do not advertise it in the best possible light which is the PC. Not to mention the hardware went significantly higher in the past 2 years in development so there's no more room for "compromises" or "iterative" process.
Click to expand...
The fact that you said it is really shows that you barely know what your talking about.
 
C

CloakedPuppet

Member
Mlatador said:
People are upset and rightly so! This shitty practise of "Target Renders", in other words, "fabricated visuals to trick your customers into believing your game looks a certain way that's not representative of the final product" is pretty outrageous. EVEN MORE SO if companies have the nerve to sell those target renders as actual gameplay. This is deception at its finest!

Target Renders should be banned from previews/from the E3 stage once and for all.

OR they need to be labeled as such: "This is not real gameplay footage", "These are not the final graphics", "This is not running on target hardware" etc. Publishers should stop demoing those fake "target renders" with real console controllers, only to make it look like they are playing the game on target hardware. This is some borderline deceptive bullshit!

Do they think gamers are stupid and will never find out or be ok with it? Ubisoft deserve all the flak they get and hopefully serve as an example for other publishers, which clearly are to blame as well.

#SayNoToTargetRenders
#StopFalseAdvertisement
Click to expand...

This cannot be quoted enough. Well said.

No gaming enthusiast should be surprised or blindsided by downgrading when it comes to previews and such (hopefully, no GAF'er would). Still, many people out there are not privy to changes in development and sleazy publisher tactics. This practice does indeed need to stop once and for all. I would have hoped that the Colonial Marines debacle would have sparked that well enough. Sadly, no.
 
Q

Qassim

Member
KingFire said:
Somebody has to sue at this point. This is false advirsment. Simple.
Click to expand...

lol

What exactly have people lost at this point? It's not as if it was released and Ubisoft never released any trailers representative of the final game - this is what they're doing now and the game isn't out yet, if they're doing it at this point then I suspect we'll only see more trailers with the closer to release build coming out.

It's a bit of a cock-up, but let's not be silly. Suing someone for false advertisement after they've corrected it and BEFORE anyone could buy the product being "falsely advertised" is kind of ridiculous. I'm not defending Ubisoft here, it's a shitty practice regardless, but don't get carried away.
 
C

Cave Johnson

Member
SystemBug said:
The fact that you said it is really shows that you barely know what your talking about.
Click to expand...

Then please explain rather than press the "ignorant" sentiment. Those assets back then were available back then. We have HARDWARE that ran said assets. Hardware has increased exponentially during the initial reveal to the final trailer. So how on earth could they downgrade? Where did the extra features disappear? Did the PC that was running at that time malfunction? We have bloody texture packs from Crysis, Sleeping Dogs post-release so this makes no sense whatsover.
 
M

mechphree

Member
Dali said:
Yeah the guy's aim with the controller was flawless. There was no signs of getting oriented to targets. It was always first shot right where it should be. When the enemy ducked behind the police car the shooting still looked too perfect when he sprayed across the vehicle.
Click to expand...

You do realize though they have probably played that same mission internally hundreds if not thousands of times, I don't think it was an elaborate script like some people claim. I think it was playable on a really good PC ( which btw would be two years old gpu's) . I think it just got down graded instead.
 
T

The Bookerman

Member
Hey, for anybody bitching moaning, everything you hear is true. NOBODY KNEW what the specs for the PS4 and Xbox were in 2012. My Studio director also wasn't even allowed to speak about the damn thing. I wish people would stop bitching and moaning like they were deliberately lied to.
 
F

fasTRapid

Banned
iMax said:
It's only a matter of time. They already have to in the EU for TV commercials, at least.
Click to expand...
I didn't know and have never noticed this. It should however be the norm to have a disclaimer on anything that is not actual gameplay wherever or whenever it is shown. That would put an end to Ubisofts deceiving way of showing of what are likely pre-rendered gameplay walkthroughs with people acting as if they were controlling the game with an obviously shown controller.

Symax said:
The demo from 2012 wasn not an official PS4 demo. High-end PC.
Click to expand...
So... what?
 
C

Camp Lo

Banned
The Bookerman said:
Hey, for anybody bitching moaning, everything you hear is true. NOBODY KNEW what the specs for the PS4 and Xbox were in 2012. My Studio director also wasn't even allowed to speak about the damn thing. I wish people would stop bitching and moaning like they were deliberately lied to.
Click to expand...

I don't think you know what people are bitching and moaning about, tbqh.
 
Y

Yasae

Banned
Mlatador said:
People are upset and rightly so! This shitty practise of "Target Renders", in other words, "fabricated visuals to trick your customers into believing your game looks a certain way that's not representative of the final product" is pretty outrageous. EVEN MORE SO if companies have the nerve to sell those target renders as actual gameplay. This is deception at its finest!

Target Renders should be banned from previews/from the E3 stage once and for all.

OR they need to be labeled as such: "This is not real gameplay footage", "These are not the final graphics", "This is not running on target hardware" etc. Publishers should stop demoing those fake "target renders" with real console controllers, only to make it look like they are playing the game on target hardware. This is some borderline deceptive bullshit!

Do they think gamers are stupid and will never find out or be ok with it? Ubisoft deserve all the flak they get and hopefully serve as an example for other publishers, which clearly are to blame as well.

#SayNoToTargetRenders
#StopFalseAdvertisement
Click to expand...
Pretty much. Full disclosure or the game should not be shown.
 
F

fasTRapid

Banned
The Bookerman said:
Hey, for anybody bitching moaning, everything you hear is true. NOBODY KNEW what the specs for the PS4 and Xbox were in 2012. My Studio director also wasn't even allowed to speak about the damn thing. I wish people would stop bitching and moaning like they were deliberately lied to.
Click to expand...
What are you even trying to say?

We were deliberately lied to though. Ubisoft did show The Division obviously being played with a DualShock 4 controller and Ubisoft did say Watch Dogs graphics haven't been downgraded but if anything upgraded since the E3 2012 reveal.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
The Bookerman said:
Hey, for anybody bitching moaning, everything you hear is true. NOBODY KNEW what the specs for the PS4 and Xbox were in 2012. My Studio director also wasn't even allowed to speak about the damn thing. I wish people would stop bitching and moaning like they were deliberately lied to.
Click to expand...

There are always select studios that are in the loop, and considering the huge push that Sony has done for Watch Dogs, I'm pretty sure Ubi Montreal knew at least something about it.

Unless you work at that studio and want to say more about it. EDIT: Although you don't have to say nothing either!
 
Y

Yasae

Banned
The Bookerman said:
Hey, for anybody bitching moaning, everything you hear is true. NOBODY KNEW what the specs for the PS4 and Xbox were in 2012. My Studio director also wasn't even allowed to speak about the damn thing. I wish people would stop bitching and moaning like they were deliberately lied to.
Click to expand...
Ok, but did you pass off target renders as if they were representative of the final look of your game via a big E3 stage showing? Because when you're in that kind of line-up, there is no "this is obviously a beta" disclaimer attached.

What seems to keep getting lost is the magnitude of the initial demonstration. Tell me, would there be such an uproar if Ubisoft had showed this demo behind closed doors and said it was an early build etc? Probably not. But then, the buzz would've been minimal.

On that note, even the tumultuous, 8+ year development of FF XV has generally been more truthful than Watch Dogs at E3 2012. Ultimately we'll see if the former has gotten a downgrade too, but it's at least kept beta footage away from too many eyes (for better or worse).
 
Mr. PlayStation

Mr. PlayStation

Member
Mlatador said:
People are upset and rightly so! This shitty practise of "Target Renders", in other words, "fabricated visuals to trick your customers into believing your game looks a certain way that's not representative of the final product" is pretty outrageous. EVEN MORE SO if companies have the nerve to sell those target renders as actual gameplay. This is deception at its finest!

Target Renders should be banned from previews/from the E3 stage once and for all.

OR they need to be labeled as such: "This is not real gameplay footage", "These are not the final graphics", "This is not running on target hardware" etc. Publishers should stop demoing those fake "target renders" with real console controllers, only to make it look like they are playing the game on target hardware. This is some borderline deceptive bullshit!

Do they think gamers are stupid and will never find out or be ok with it? Ubisoft deserve all the flak they get and hopefully serve as an example for other publishers, which clearly are to blame as well.

#SayNoToTargetRenders
#StopFalseAdvertisement
Click to expand...

This quote deserves it's own thread. Do it!
 
Symax

Symax

Member
fasTRapid said:
So... what?
Click to expand...
Do we really want to have this discussion again? Why cant anyone just stop comparing apples with oranges? PC was the lead platform at E3 2012. Next gen was still in development back then. It was clearly normal to discover a change in the E3 2013 demo running on the official PS4 devkit. 2013 is the official PS4 version not 2012.
 
C

chadskin

Member
Symax said:
Do we really want to have this discussion again? Why cant anyone just stop comparing apples with oranges? PC was the lead platform at E3 2012. Next gen was still in development back then. It was clearly normal to discover a change in the E3 2013 demo running on the official PS4 devkit. 2013 is the official PS4 version not 2012.
Click to expand...

Indeed, it improved over the E3 2012 demo!

Watch Dogs' visuals have not been scaled down since the game's reveal at E3 2012, creative director Jonathan Morin has told VideoGamer.com, claiming that if anything, they've actually improved.
Click to expand...

http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/watch...wn_since_reveal_creative_director_claims.html
 
D

DragonSworne

Banned
J

JohnnySasaki86

Member
I saw this game played extensively at PAX 2013 on a PS4 with a DS4. Saw the actual system turned on. He actually had to reboot the system once. He basically was just driving around get caught by the poillice and trying to escape, with the other person on the tablet trying to stop him. The game looked great, and exactly like the E3 2013 demo.

Edit: now I admit this was a slight downgrade from E3 2012, which we all noticed at E3 2013. But it still looked great and "next gen". A downgrade from PAX/E3 2013 makes no sense. Unless they were trying to get closer parity between all systems. Maybe its Xbone that would cause the downgrade, cause trying to get it closer to the last gen versions makes no sense at all.
 
W

wifininja

Neo Member
I saw this in person at E3 2013 and it looked amazing as well as they did a live demo for us too, it was what made me preorder
 
B

Buckethead

Banned
Mlatador said:
OR they need to be labeled as such: "This is not real gameplay footage", "These are not the final graphics", "This is not running on target hardware" etc. Publishers should stop demoing those fake "target renders" with real console controllers, only to make it look like they are playing the game on target hardware. This is some borderline deceptive bullshit!

Do they think gamers are stupid and will never find out or be ok with it? Ubisoft deserve all the flak they get and hopefully serve as an example for other publishers, which clearly are to blame as well.

#SayNoToTargetRenders
#StopFalseAdvertisement
Click to expand...
I agree with everything in your post except the top part here.

If you give them an out, you're just giving them license to use legalese to weasel their way out of it just like TV commercials do all the time.
 
F

Faith

Member
Mlatador said:
People are upset and rightly so! This shitty practise of "Target Renders", in other words, "fabricated visuals to trick your customers into believing your game looks a certain way that's not representative of the final product" is pretty outrageous. EVEN MORE SO if companies have the nerve to sell those target renders as actual gameplay. This is deception at its finest!

Target Renders should be banned from previews/from the E3 stage once and for all.

OR they need to be labeled as such: "This is not real gameplay footage", "These are not the final graphics", "This is not running on target hardware" etc. Publishers should stop demoing those fake "target renders" with real console controllers, only to make it look like they are playing the game on target hardware. This is some borderline deceptive bullshit!

Do they think gamers are stupid and will never find out or be ok with it? Ubisoft deserve all the flak they get and hopefully serve as an example for other publishers, which clearly are to blame as well.

#SayNoToTargetRenders
#StopFalseAdvertisement
Click to expand...
I have to quote this because I didn't quote it by now. Quoting this should become a movement!
 
C

chadskin

Member
JohnnySasaki86 said:
I saw this game played extensively at PAX 2013 on a PS4 with a DS4. Saw the actual system turned on. He actually had to reboot the system once. He basically was just driving around get caught by the poillice and trying to escape, with the other person on the tablet trying to stop him. The game looked great, and exactly like the E3 2013 demo.
Click to expand...

Having seen the game in action, what's your take on the new story trailer and b-roll footage?
 
Wishmaster92

Wishmaster92

Member
Mlatador said:
People are upset and rightly so! This shitty practise of "Target Renders", in other words, "fabricated visuals to trick your customers into believing your game looks a certain way that's not representative of the final product" is pretty outrageous. EVEN MORE SO if companies have the nerve to sell those target renders as actual gameplay. This is deception at its finest!

Target Renders should be banned from previews/from the E3 stage once and for all.

OR they need to be labeled as such: "This is not real gameplay footage", "These are not the final graphics", "This is not running on target hardware" etc. Publishers should stop demoing those fake "target renders" with real console controllers, only to make it look like they are playing the game on target hardware. This is some borderline deceptive bullshit!

Do they think gamers are stupid and will never find out or be ok with it? Ubisoft deserve all the flak they get and hopefully serve as an example for other publishers, which clearly are to blame as well.

#SayNoToTargetRenders
#StopFalseAdvertisement
Click to expand...
As someone who was also fooled by Deep Down, i love this post.
 
W

WARP10CK

Banned
Ubisoft really need to show actual ps4 and xbone gameplay from this now if they really have not downgraded anything or if the gif comparison graphics is what ps4 and xbone is getting then atleast at this point be honest about it ....
 
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