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Dark Souls 2 Lighting changes/Downgrade

RyudBoy

Member
I hope it doesn't happen (and I doubt it will), but how pissed would PC gamers be if the version they're getting is based on current gen assets, kinda like how NBA2K14 and Tomb Raider was? Then, they could release the *DEFINITIVE EDITION* on next gen consoles with all the graphical bells and whistles later.

Would you double dip ?
 
c'mon, it looks pretty much the same with 10x ao and 3x saturation

http://i.imgur.com/p5hefcM.jpg?1

like seriously look a that big black stain on the back

it looks hideous

Yep, totally the same.

OGdHC7hh.png

kY5M6nZh.jpg


The lighting was put IN because of gameplay reasons. Areas were supposed to be pitch black until you took a torch out using your right hand, forgoing shield use in the process. You were meant to pick your ability to fight vs. visibility.

People now are claiming that the area looks gray but completely visible without a torch, and with a torch it just looks orange but still the same amount of visibility. It effectively removed that entire mechanic.

It's possible that the lighting system just wasn't feasible through the entire game, but for From to remove it knowing that the torch mechanic was going to be nixed in the process, despite them making a big deal out of it, is what's bothering people.
Excellent point. This downgrade directly affects gameplay, not just the visuals.
 

Regulus

Neo Member
The "good lighting" wasn't really in the beta either. There were only a few light sources that had dynamic lighting even then, and it looks like at least some of those are still present in the final game (the Executioner's Chariot still looks pretty awesome when it careens around the Undead Purgatory). The major change between the network test and the final build is that the player character emits light, just like in the previous game... and it looks awful.

I hope that the PC version fully utilizes their new lighting engine, but the new 1080p screens on the steam store page aren't very encouraging.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
I played the beta on PS3 hardware, so it can't be a hardware based choice - they've done it for a reason...I have a few ideas behind it!

A beta version that is minimal in scope compared to the rest of the game is your reason as to why it's not a hardware based choice? Sorry. I disagree.
 

Paracelsus

Member
- Niche low budget game that for all intents and purposes wasn't gonna be a success became a cult hit
- Due to a twist of fate, the series turns multiplatform, so the series can reach out to as many people as possible
- Suddenly, everyone expects The Witcher 3 out of it

I feel like only blaming Namco. Boost the budget rather than pour cash into false advertisement.
 

Curious_George

Neo Member
I hope it doesn't happen (and I doubt it will), but how pissed would PC gamers be if the version they're getting is based on current gen assets, kinda like how NBA2K14 and Tomb Raider was? Then, they could release the *DEFINITIVE EDITION* on next gen consoles with all the graphical bells and whistles later.

Would you double dip ?

After DS PC release and all they've said about not repeating that troubled port? Let's just say it's unlikely PC gamers will be creating many petitions for From to release PC ports from then on.

Also, I would never buy another PC version just for a graphics upgrade that might amount to turning on some extra lighting effects. Those type of changes are for patches not an entirely new game purchase (and I assume that'll be the sentiment of most PC gamers).
 
I think the PC version will be fine. They designed the game with the PC version in mind(next gen engine in mind). This led to a relatively high quality lighting solution. Unfortunately, they couldn't get the solution implemented on consoles.

Flip side is they could have designed for consoles and then jacked up the goodies for the PC version. This approach would probably have led to a more consistent world/level design, but the PC version might not reach the same graphical heights.

The lighting seems to have played a decent role in the design of the world so I'm not sure either design side approach is ideal. It's not like you would want to target console level lighting in the world design and then just through a dynamic lighting system over it on the PC. Details that were intended to be seen (or not) are now obscured (or visible).
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
From were really showing off and bragging about their new lighting engine. I highly doubt they would scrap it completely, it must be just a PC exclusive.

I am convinced this is the case.
Doesn't take them out of the wrong if they didn't qualify this in the first place and marketed to the primarily platforms using something that makes as drastic of a difference to the visuals as we see here, and to gameplay as well considering how much these games rely on atmosphere.
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
I don't care as long as there isn't another blighttown in terms of framerate.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
You think it looks better now? Cool, I'm okay with that. But I cannot understand how you can deny that there's been a pretty significant downgrade lighting-wise, specially if you compare those Mirror Knight shots.
because it's the same. less ao and less orange isn't a huge downgrade, it's a stylistic choice

it's not like that watch dogs gif in which a) it looks like shit and b) you can tell there's a lower polycount, worse textures, etc.

like in this picture this fine gentleman/lady's found for me...
Yep, totally the same.

OGdHC7hh.png

kY5M6nZh.jpg
the wall textures look much better in the second picture. look at the bottom of the wall thingie, you can tell they actually did the normal mapping work in that and smoothed out the edge and whatnot.

i don't really see the technological downgrade, the ao is still there, the polycount and texture res is still there, the post processing is less hurtful for the eyes which I can appreciate

i'd like to see if the mirror knight pictures are a fair comparison. the first one looks like a shot when lighting is what's "lighting" (ugh) the scene. if they were to remove that then yea, but it doesn't seem like the fairest of comparisons. it does look worse tho, as far as coolness is concerned, but again dunno about that.

and like there not being any video of that i cannot confirm. the videos on the ot for me show mostly an stylistic choice

edit: not gonna say there's no downgrade, because there's always downgrades in everything about videogames. half the game gets cut, etc. but it's no watch dogs
edit2: particles do look worse now that i look at em. won't really watch the videos too hard because i care too much about spoiling myself but i'll give you that :)
 

Feindflug

Member
Yeah the 360 version looks a bit sharper.

Well at least the IQ looks like an improvement when compared to the first game, I'd still get a sub-HD resolution like the first game (1024*720) though if that meant including the better lighting engine or having a steady 30fps frame-rate.

Either way those shots look good IMO.
 
- Niche low budget game that for all intents and purposes wasn't gonna be a success became a cult hit
- Due to a twist of fate, the series turns multiplatform, so the series can reach out to as many people as possible
- Suddenly, everyone expects The Witcher 3 out of it

I feel like only blaming Namco. Boost the budget rather than pour cash into false advertisement.

Dat strawman.

Tell me one person in this or the OT who's legit pissed that it doesn't look cutting edge enough to rival The Witcher 3.

People are pissed because From's lighting that they themselves bragged about doesn't seem to be present in the final game.

People like you need to stop trying to push this "omg ppl hav unrealistic expectashuns" narrative. It makes absolutely no sense. These are the expectations that From set up for themselves.
 

Wolfe

Member
because it's the same. less ao and less orange isn't a huge downgrade, it's a stylistic choice

it's not like that watch dogs gif in which a) it looks like shit and b) you can tell there's a lower polycount, worse textures, etc.

like in this picture this fine gentleman/lady's found for me...

the wall textures look much better in the second picture. look at the bottom of the wall thingie, you can tell they actually did the normal mapping work in that and smoothed out the edge and whatnot.

i don't really see the technological downgrade, the ao is still there, the polycount and texture res is still there, the post processing is less hurtful for the eyes which I can appreciate

i'd like to see if the mirror knight pictures are a fair comparison. the first one looks like a shot when lighting is what's "lighting" (ugh) the scene. if they were to remove that then yea, but it doesn't seem like the fairest of comparisons. it does look worse tho, as far as coolness is concerned, but again dunno about that.

and like there not being any video of that i cannot confirm. the videos on the ot for me show mostly an stylistic choice

edit: not gonna say there's no downgrade, because there's always downgrades in everything about videogames. half the game gets cut, etc. but it's no watch dogs

Yeah the second screen definitely looks better to me texture wise but I do agree that the first one looks cooler in regards to lighting. Curiously though the first screen it doesn't appear that the character is producing any light himself which has always been a thing in Demons and Dark souls, although the second screenshot appears to retain this feature yet is obviously lacking in the level lighting department compared to the first screen.
 

Soma

Member

Sure is looking pretty Dark Souls in there.

Which is probably weirder since they're using a new engine. Last-gen game looks like a last-gen game and I would've found it really hard to believe the entire game would hold up that well on PS360 with how massive the game is (going by streams). It's still really scummy of them to release demos and previews making it seem as if the final game will look like that on those consoles.
 

RyudBoy

Member
After DS PC release and all they've said about not repeating that troubled port? Let's just say it's unlikely PC gamers will be creating many petitions for From to release PC ports from then on.

Also, I would never buy another PC version just for a graphics upgrade that might amount to turning on some extra lighting effects. Those type of changes are for patches not an entirely new game purchase (and I assume that'll be the sentiment of most PC gamers).

That's reassuring, but I've been lied to before. I trust FROM will deliver with the PC version, though.

I asked the double dip question in regards to the recent re-release of Tomb Raider. The visual upgrades are only available on the next gen consoles, and it wouldn't be made available through patching on PC through the old game. So, the only way anyone would be able to get the new graphics (assuming they want it) is from double dipping. Seems a lot of people did with Tomb Raider.
 
Look at the shadow on the ground. That tree should most definitely be in the shadow and not lit lol

lol yea I guess, but that's probably just another bug =P

But what's more interesting imo, is that the character in the PS3 version looks properly lit from the left side, whereas the 360 version looks almost non existent.
 
Hey don't underestimate what can be done with SweetFX. :p

Of course you wont be adding lighting that isn't there, but you can definitely change the saturation and make it look more vibrant.

the sweetfx one is oversharpened and has the blacks crushed, otherwise it looks exactly the same

the only thing sweetfx does is be a post process color/sharpening filter
 

zkylon

zkylewd
Yeah the second screen definitely looks better to me texture wise but I do agree that the first one looks cooler in regards to lighting. Curiously though the first screen it doesn't appear that the character is producing any light himself which has always been a thing in Demons and Dark souls, although the second screenshot appears to retain this feature yet is obviously lacking in the level lighting department compared to the first screen.
it does look a lot more flat but i'm not a fan of the old overprocessed look either
 

Ghazi

Member
lol yea I guess, but that's probably just another bug =P

But what's more interesting imo, is that the character in the PS3 version looks properly lit from the left side, whereas the 360 version looks almost non existent.

The PS3 character appears to be standing further down the stairs, and in turn, be more illuminated. That's what I see, at least.
 

UnrealEck

Member
I hope it doesn't happen (and I doubt it will), but how pissed would PC gamers be if the version they're getting is based on current gen assets, kinda like how NBA2K14 and Tomb Raider was? Then, they could release the *DEFINITIVE EDITION* on next gen consoles with all the graphical bells and whistles later.

Would you double dip ?

One of the reasons why I'm not buying the game full price is because I want to see how it turns out. I am sure there will be proper resolution scaling (and not some crap half-arsed upscaler again) and at least 60 FPS cap (though possibly no cap) but I'm not sure how the game will look. If they've downgraded all versions, I will be very dissapointed. But there's also the fact that the game is not coming out until over 6 weeks after the console versions and I'm not sure there will be a good reason to justify it.

Oh and additionally, if they release a PS4 and Xbox One version with graphical enhancements, I would expect them to patch them into the PC version too. If they don't, it'll simply be a cash grab double/triple dip.
 

Grief.exe

Member
One of the reasons why I'm not buying the game full price is because I want to see how it turns out. I am sure there will be proper resolution scaling (and not some crap half-arsed upscaler again) and at least 60 FPS cap (though possibly no cap) but I'm not sure how the game will look. If they've downgraded all versions, I will be very dissapointed. But there's also the fact that the game is not coming out until over 6 weeks after the console versions and I'm not sure there will be a good reason to justify it.

Oh and additionally, if they release a PS4 and Xbox One version with graphical enhancements, I would expect them to patch them into the PC version too. If they don't, it'll simply be a cash grab double/triple dip.

I would certainly hope that any work on the PS4/XBO versions would be translated to the PC version as well.

Keeping them on the same development build helps for other reasons as well.

Best-case scenario, From is taking the extra six weeks to implement graphical features missing from the console versions.
 
I would certainly hope that any work on the PS4/XBO versions would be translated to the PC version as well.

Keeping them on the same development build helps for other reasons as well.

Best-case scenario, From is taking the extra six weeks to implement graphical features missing from the console versions.

I don't know. If the torch mechanic was removed because of the lighting issues, I don't see them adding them back into the PC version, because that actually changes how the game plays significantly.

If they indeed remove the torch mechanic I'm pretty certain they'll remove it for all versions, even if the reason for the removal doesn't make a difference to the PC hardware.
 

Grief.exe

Member
I don't know. If the torch mechanic was removed because of the lighting issues, I don't see them adding them back into the PC version, because that actually changes how the game plays significantly.

If they indeed remove the torch mechanic I'm pretty certain they'll remove it for all versions, even if the reason for the removal doesn't make a difference to the PC hardware.

What makes you think they removed the torch mechanic? I have been on a media blackout, but I did see the developers discussing the mechanics at length while scanning through IGN's 'DS2 AMA.'

Even then, this thread is referring to dynamic lighting, and so was I.
 

Wolfe

Member
Wrong. Sun is shining from the left. Tree is lit on left.

He's not arguing the direction of the sun, more that whatever is casting the shadow on the ground in front of the tree (and in turn also casting shadow on the pillar further down the path) is not casting a shadow on the tree itself on the 360 version yet it is on the PS3 one.

The PS3 character appears to be standing further down the stairs, and in turn, be more illuminated. That's what I see, at least.

I disagree, he appears to be standing in the same location, the real telling thing to me though is the fact that the stairs themselves are lit up on the 360 version yet the character doesn't appear to be affected by the same lighting.

That's how I see it after checking them out again.
 
Yep, totally the same.

OGdHC7hh.png

kY5M6nZh.jpg



Excellent point. This downgrade directly affects gameplay, not just the visuals.

It doesn't. You spend about 1 minute in that room tops. No mans warf is a level that uses the lighting engine greatly and is unaffected by the limits of the engine.

From my experience it can only handle casing shadows from only a few lightsources at a time.

I have played it for a good bit and it's quite obvious the ps3 can barely handle the game at all even with only a few light sources. FPS is quite bad when more lights are in view, it's a good thing they toned it down or it would be running in the teens.
 
I'm so hyped for the PC version, I don't care about the graphics much, just that I want to play with my PS4 controller. I just hope most of the podcasts I listen to wait for the PC version as well.
 

RyudBoy

Member
One of the reasons why I'm not buying the game full price is because I want to see how it turns out. I am sure there will be proper resolution scaling (and not some crap half-arsed upscaler again) and at least 60 FPS cap (though possibly no cap) but I'm not sure how the game will look. If they've downgraded all versions, I will be very dissapointed. But there's also the fact that the game is not coming out until over 6 weeks after the console versions and I'm not sure there will be a good reason to justify it.

Oh and additionally, if they release a PS4 and Xbox One version with graphical enhancements, I would expect them to patch them into the PC version too. If they don't, it'll simply be a cash grab double/triple dip.

I just don't have the patience to wait for a superior version, and I doubt I would double dip on this game (unless super cheap!).
 

Grief.exe

Member
I just don't have the patience to wait for a superior version, and I doubt I would double dip on this game (unless super cheap!).

Having a massive backlog makes the wait super easy.

I also really don't want to tarnish my initial experience with the last-gen version.
 
Wrong. Sun is shining from the left. Tree is lit on left.
Lol no.

Sun is shining from left, which is casting shadows all the way across the screen. Look at the pillar RIGHT next to it (which is correctly shadowed in both versions), as well as the rest of the scene, it isn't hard to notice.

Like I said to the other guy, look at the shadows on the ground. Or the other trees in both versions that are also under shadows (which aren't being lit from the left on either version). Or the dead body laying right under the tree, which is also shadowed.
 

Arttemis

Member
I can't afford any games this month, so I'm using this as a reason to wait in eager anticipation for a PS4 version that brings back the crazy detailed lighting and shadows. I'd go ape shit if they ported the first Dark Souls over too using an improved PC version (since PC to PS4 is supposed to be a cinch).
 

RK9039

Member
I also really don't want to tarnish my initial experience with the last-gen version.

Agreed.

It also makes the wait more easier, plus everyone is upset with how the console versions turned out so I don't mind playing Path of Exile until April 25th.
 

Ghazi

Member
I disagree, he appears to be standing in the same location, the real telling thing to me though is the fact that the stairs themselves are lit up on the 360 version yet the character doesn't appear to be affected by the same lighting.

That's how I see it after checking them out again.

I'm probably wrong, but I was judging the distance based on the pillar/stump thin on the bottom left that looks closer to the screen in the PS3 shot. Either way, the tree not being shadowed is messed up on the 360 so it probably is a bug on the 360, or the lighting is just worse than the PS3 version.
 
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