海外の連中はフロムを知らないのか？
この会社は何時もこんな感じだ。トレーラー>デモ>製品なんだよ、そういう悪習のある会社なんだ。PC版もPS3と全く同じグラになると思う。なぜならコンソー ルで走らないモデリングをPCで金かけてやる会社なんて存在しないから。
Don't those foreigners know anything about From? It's always the same with this company. The same bad habit from Trailer -> Demo -> Release. The PC version will probably have exactly the same graphics, because no company would spend money on modeling for PC when it didn't work on consoles.
Sure, but is From just going throw away all the work they've already invested in the previous iterations just to reduce the disparity when it's released for PC?
Unless they reached some significant fork in the road recently which required redesigning the game in such a way for consoles that voids the previous work for the PC version I don't see why they couldn't include such graphical options that were clearly there before.
But that would mean they're literally freeze framed, because that's the only way it'd be worse. *Reads* oh fuck. Yeah that better be gone for PC release, or at the very least be easily moddable in an .ini, since it's just a LoD setting.
Looking at the Giantbomb Quickplay they said a few times how much better the final game runs compared to the demo they played before. The TGS demo I believe. It's obvious that the current gen consoles just couldn't handle it and they chose to put gameplay above graphics. I don't think they actively tried to mislead people as much as having to make a tough decision. It seems even with the simpler lighting the game still chugs at times.
As someone who has been looking forward to this game ever since I beat Demon Souls and Dark Souls in 2013, I am extremely disheartened right now. Not like this, FROM, not like this....
Let me preface the rest of this post by saying I am not some random who came in here to talk shit about a game they really had no intentions of buying any way. I was hyped for this game, I couldn't wait. With all that all said, I am not buying this game.
Let me elaborate as to why in a few points:
1. As a consumer, I do not like to be fucking lied to and deceived. Period. The idea that a company thinks they can try and sell me one thing and then give me something else and I'll buy it any way is a complete slap in the face. I will not abide that shit.
2. I don't give a fuck about dark Souls having sub-par graphics or just being graphically mid-tier like DS1. I genuinely don't care. But don't try and sell me one thing and then give me something else. If DSII looked the way it does now at all those E3 events and media promotions I would still be ready and willing to drop dollars on this bad boy, no questions asked. But... if you're selling me a steak with a side of cut fries through your advertising, and I order that off the menu, then I expect to receive steak and fries. Don't come out of that kitchen with a ham sandwich on wheat-bread and a fun size bag of chips. I LIKE ham on wheat and a bag of chips. I'm totally content with that as a meal. However, that isn't what you advertised to me on that menu and it isn't what I was ready and willing to pay for.
3. I don't like having my fandom being taken advantage of. Through Demon/darksouls1 I have become a genuine fan. Every time I get a chance to talk about Dark Souls in any video game related conversation in my personal life it's always a great feeling. The more people know about this series the better is how I see it. It's especially great when you meet a fellow DS fan and geek out together.
What FROM has done here is take advantage of people who they know will buy their shit no matter what they do (just look at this thread) because they love this series so much, such as pretending their game looks a certain way for a very long time and then revealing to people at the last minute that it was all horseshit, knowing full well it will sell regardless because of the good will and word of mouth they have garnered over the years. That's just fucked.
4. Giving FROM a pass or purchasing this game means you're OK with companies stringing you along with bullshit false advertising. You're living proof that this type of tactic is an affective marketing strategy. It's your money, sure, but supporting it only gives companies more incentive to do it again.
I want to make this crystal fucking clear to the people who will defend FROM and this series to the death no matter what they do, this is NOT about graphical quality, this is about me as a consumer being lied to and a company trying to take advantage of my fandom. It's wrong. I will not stand for it.
There, I said my peace on the matter.
Don't bring up the PC version. My comp can't run it and I'm not upgrading.
Sure, but is From just going throw away all the work they've already invested in the previous iterations just to reduce the disparity when it's released for PC?
Unless they reached some significant fork in the road recently which required redesigning the game in such a way for consoles that voids the previous work for the PC version I don't see why they couldn't include such graphical options that were clearly there before.
It sucks, but I don't believe From was trying to deceive people. As other people have said, all this seems more like a tough decision on their part to downscale the lightning and certain models to ensure a reasonably consistent framerate.
... Hang on, concerning the PC screenshots from the PC release date announcement, did they have the original lighting?
What the fuck are you talking about? You can tell within the first hour how the combat feels, especially if you have any experience from the first two games. I'm not criticizing difficulty, I'm talking about the impact of the weapons. It doesn't exist so far. Whoever was in charge of the sound needs to be fired too, because it's pretty bad. Most of the weapon impact sounds sound like you're hitting a wet log wrapped in aluminum. Walking around in general doesn't produce the correct sounds either on different surfaces.
This really feels like a Souls game by the B tier team, or an entirely different developer trying to copy the Souls series. And they supposedly had twice the manpower for this game. Did most of the time go into creating the new engine--that's actually worse on last gen than the previous engine--and half of the time (it took to make the first game) go into actually creating the world and its inhabitants? So far it's still able to hold my interest to want to continue, but it's rather depressing playing this coming down from the first two.
And they supposedly had twice the manpower for this game. Did most of the time go into creating the new engine--that's actually worse on last gen than the previous engine--and half of the time (it took to make the first game) go into actually creating the world and its inhabitants?
It sucks, but I don't believe From was trying to deceive people. As other people have said, all this seems more like a tough decision on their part to downscale the lightning and certain models to ensure a reasonably consistent framerate.
... Hang on, concerning the PC screenshots from the PC release date announcement, did they have the original lighting?
Pulled the trigger on the PS3 version, I'll be the only idiot running around with a torch, doing my best to brighten up the dull grey areas and pretending that I can't see shit without it in the magically lit caves.
What the fuck are you talking about? You can tell within the first hour how the combat feels, especially if you have any experience from the first two games. I'm not criticizing difficulty, I'm talking about the impact of the weapons. It doesn't exist so far. Whoever was in charge of the sound needs to be fired too, because it's pretty bad. Most of the weapon impact sounds sound like you're hitting a wet log wrapped in aluminum. Walking around in general doesn't produce the correct sounds either on different surfaces.
This really feels like a Souls game by the B tier team, or an entirely different developer trying to copy the Souls series. And they supposedly had twice the manpower for this game. Did most of the time go into creating the new engine--that's actually worse on last gen than the previous engine--and half of the time (it took to make the first game) go into actually creating the world and its inhabitants? So far it's still able to hold my interest to want to continue, but it's rather depressing playing this coming down from the first two.
This is exactly what I've been saying for weeks now. A lot of people assume the PC version is just going to fix everything regarding the graphics, and it's not going to. Enhancing the resolution of low polygons isn't really going to do much for the aesthetics. They might actually include some high res textures like they claimed, but it's still not going to change that much of the way it (so far) looks really flat.
But if the beta showed higher detailed modelling of environments, then those assets already exist. It isn't something they'd need to create for the PC, they are already there.
The confusing thing for me is the timing of the change. It seems to have come very late on. Was the beta performance acceptable? If so then I don't know why they would reduce the lighting so much. Maybe it worked in a limited area but required too much memory so affected the streaming world? Strange
What the fuck are you talking about? You can tell within the first hour how the combat feels, especially if you have any experience from the first two games. I'm not criticizing difficulty, I'm talking about the impact of the weapons. It doesn't exist so far. Whoever was in charge of the sound needs to be fired too, because it's pretty bad. Most of the weapon impact sounds sound like you're hitting a wet log wrapped in aluminum. Walking around in general doesn't produce the correct sounds either on different surfaces.
This really feels like a Souls game by the B tier team, or an entirely different developer trying to copy the Souls series. And they supposedly had twice the manpower for this game. Did most of the time go into creating the new engine--that's actually worse on last gen than the previous engine--and half of the time (it took to make the first game) go into actually creating the world and its inhabitants? So far it's still able to hold my interest to want to continue, but it's rather depressing playing this coming down from the first two.
This. Once a company is happy enough with something to be willing to reveal it and show it to the public, it's rare that it's gonna go through any kind of massive transformation. It's crazy how often defenders of a game will say 'It's a beta/demo! It's not done yet!' when release might only be a month and a half away and there's no chance of any development being done other than bug and crash fixes.
And yes, the animation and art design of this game have looked really, really poor since the first gameplay video we saw. I've been worried about it since then. Looks like a lot of those worries came true, but I'll have to play it for myself to say for sure.
But if the beta showed higher detailed modelling of environments, then those assets already exist. It isn't something they'd need to create for the PC, they are already there.
Speaking of which, if someone could extract the assets from the beta files, couldn't they theoretically mod those assets into the PC version? As long as the modifications don't affect gameplay, I don't think anyone minds.
As someone who has been looking forward to this game ever since I beat Demon Souls and Dark Souls in 2013, I am extremely disheartened right now. Not like this, FROM, not like this....[snip]
Buddy, I love geeking out over Souls as much as the next guy, but before we get our pants in a bunch about this, please remember that as publisher (in the west), Bandai Namco is responsible for all footage of the game shown to the public. From is responsible for developing the game, making it fun, and getting it into our hands on the target release date. I wouldn't be surprised if in all pre-release footage and particularly the Network Beta Test, there was some fineprint reading that the content you were seeing did not indicate the final product.
You can complain and make it "crystal fucking clear" to everyone on this message board, but I guarantee you that the vast majority of people holding onto their pre-orders and supporting the game regardless are not buying into anyone's lies and deceipt, but rather keeping their faith in the game as a whole and wanting to experience the next Souls experience first-hand. How do you intend to get your message to the publisher, developer or whoever when you are a small negative minority who refuse to buy the game for what is ultimately a very superficial reason?
What the fuck are you talking about? You can tell within the first hour how the combat feels, especially if you have any experience from the first two games. I'm not criticizing difficulty, I'm talking about the impact of the weapons. It doesn't exist so far. Whoever was in charge of the sound needs to be fired too, because it's pretty bad. Most of the weapon impact sounds sound like you're hitting a wet log wrapped in aluminum. Walking around in general doesn't produce the correct sounds either on different surfaces.
The amount of fan backlash against Vaati lately is saddening. The dude just makes Soul videos, he's not suited to the role of being dev/community middle ground personality which some people seem to treat him as.
Yeah it's odd. It also seems as if some of the reviews went with screenshots that show the previous not downgraded versions of some of the locations and lighting.
The amount of fan backlash against Vaati lately is saddening. The dude just makes Soul videos, he's not suited to the role of being dev/community middle ground personality which some people seem to treat him as.
Yeah I understand that.
I'm just assuming that he knew. I still like him and his videos.
There's something going behind the scenes of this and I wish we could all find out what sooner rather than later.
And the torch is still needed in at least one part of the game from what I've heard. It apparently can be used to intimidate enemies, so maybe that's what Vaati means?
And the torch is still needed in at least one part of the game from what I've heard. It apparently can be used to intimidate enemies, so maybe that's what Vaati means?
Ah well; just cancelled my pre-order - I had been on media blackout on this one, but after reading some of these posts I decided to break it, and I'm glad I did. I'm watching some videos atm & I'm not liking the direction they've taken, it seems too many corners have been cut. I'll wait till the first round of patches and see how it's looking then.
Edit: Okay, I say this and literally just as I posted it, I got a Dark Souls 2 metal plaque through the post - Limited edition, 2475 of 2500. Not part of the pre-order I'd made, or any pre-order bonus that I can see. Now feel slightly bad for cancelling the pre-order :/
Edit Edit: Pre-order re-instated. I'm such a pushover
Reviewers especially, seeing that they usually don't have the time to dedicate to single games like most of the hardcore communities do, are obviously going to have a different perspective on what they enjoy out of games.
Also, again, subjectiveness and all that. "Weight" and "feel" especially are such nebulous terms, and even in the game it'll differ greatly from weapon to weapon.
Reviewers especially, seeing that they usually don't have the time to dedicate to single games like most of the hardcore communities do, are obviously going to have a different perspective on what they enjoy out of games.
Also, again, subjectiveness and all that. "Weight" and "feel" especially are such nebulous terms, and even in the game it'll differ greatly from weapon to weapon.
No kidding. I got the game and didn't notice any particular lightness in, for example, the halberd, or the heavier Gyrm high str weapons or the hammer I use on my str character. There
is a new 'drake sword' type of effective sword at the start which has fast, kinda light moves so I guess people would have used that on streams at least.
You do realize how utterly ridiculous that sounds, right? This is nowhere near the A:CM affair. This is a case of a developer basically being forced to cut down visual content due to hardware limitations in order to achieve a satisfactory framerate. A:CM had far more than have inferior visuals compared to its own vertical slice, because Gearbox were fucking lazy and outsourced it without even bothering to supervise the project.
Sure, it kinda sucks, but this case is likely due to technical limits that From had to compensate for - they tried to have the game running at that level of visual fidelity, but likely figured out that they had to cut stuff down a bit to make the game run at playable speeds. DS2 is still likely gonna be a fantastic game, otherwise. It's not a 'scam', it's just an unfortunate downgrade, and I bet From are frustrated about that, themselves.
Here's hoping the PC version can deliver. I'm not getting my hopes up, but I don't see why they shouldn't have that content in the PC version.
Amid concerns that Watch_Dogs has been visually "downgraded" after an overpromising reveal trailer, Jimquisition tackles the wider problem of publishers constantly being lying little bastards.
1. Combat. It's still definitely Souls combat, but it actually makes you think that this is what the prototype for Demon's was when they were still trying to flesh it out. So much about it feels similar, yet horribly off at the same time.
2. Aesthetics are really awful in some areas. While so far (six hours) the game feels like Demon's/Dark, it often feels again like some kind of first or second pass before they really got down to polishing those areas. Souls was never about graphics, but they did wonders with the aesthetics. Some of the areas look really nice, while others just feel like they were completely rushed. Hate to say it, but "Shit Mountain" really comes to mind.
3. Maybe the difficulty ramps up significantly later on, but for the first couple hours at least, it's laughably easier than the previous two games; and that's not factoring in any previous experience you might have. People were saying that the Estus was super slow now and that it takes forever to drink? No it doesn't. It's a little slower initially, but not enough to really make a significant difference. Life gems drop about every 5th enemy or so, so if you had previous Souls experience, you're going to have plenty of them. And in many ways, they are actually better than the Estus. The Estus it seems is just for out of combat healing now since you can replenish them at bonfires, and you can't do that with the gems.
4. Sound, it's just really off in many places. It's not the entire game that sounds wrong, but much of it just doesn't sound right anymore. It's not a matter of them just using new sounds either, they just don't fit quite often.
All that being said, you're still not going to find another game that gives this kind of experience. It still has the tension that the series is known for, as well as the WTF moments.
So my impression from the Beta is still in the full game: it's too easy.
In the beta almost every enemy drop a healing items, and I defeated the boss with 40 of those items plus full Estus flasks.
Yeah, and people also said Dark was harder than Demon's. It wasn't if you played them in order.
Regardless, the only consolation I can really give is that if you're a fan of the series, this game is definitely still worth the price of admission. All of the negativity stems from the fact that they took so many steps backwards when there was no valid reason to. The first two games were close to perfect in their own ways.
What I don't understand really is the complaint about heal gems being too frequent. If anything it seems like they severely nerfed both the grass system and flask system and put them both in the game. Doesn't seem like it'll make the game that much easier compared to demon's souls where you can get a ton of grass even if you don't really try to farm them. In fact life gems should be harder because you can't just pop them in the middle of combat and get your health up instantly. You have to wait for it to finish it healing you fully.
Yeah so it's not easier. You're just used to the series. the games have never been that hard to begin with. I found Demon's souls "hard" becaus eit was a new play style. Dark souls was a cakewalk.
I'm not too bothered, it's never been clear whether Dark Souls is harder or easier than Demon's and I expect that's more to do with the huge amount of variables in each game than anything.
There's been enough opinions from all over the place to make me think this will be the same deal.
I'm playing Dark Souls for the 3rd time. For the first time ever I'm stuck at the Capra Demon, and I suspect it's because of the type of build I'm using. It is a lot harder to take out those dogs now.
I wonder if there is a difference in difficulty between, say, shield users and dual wielders.
What I don't understand really is the complaint about heal gems being too frequent. If anything it seems like they severely nerfed both the grass system and flask system and put them both in the game. Doesn't seem like it'll make the game that much easier compared to demon's souls where you can get a ton of grass even if you don't really try to farm them. In fact life gems should be harder because you can't just pop them in the middle of combat and get your health up instantly. You have to wait for it to finish it healing you fully.
Life gems take a long, looooong while to heal and are limited - albeit generous - in number since vendors have a stock system now. The animation is also somewhat long and locks you from moving fast until it ends.
If anything, they're not grasses but more like equipping Regenerator's Ring + Adjudicator's Shield in a safe location and waiting it out.
