zephervack
Member
We dont know if the PC version will look like the Demo, most likely not.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Dark Souls 2 Lighting changes/Downgrade
- Thread starter Moral Panic
- Start date
We dont know if the PC version will look like the Demo, most likely not.
Brerlappin
Member
Da FUQ?? How the hell do you completely change the game in 2 months?? That video looks absolutely fucking majestic, how did it go from that to the retail release in 2 damn months?
gamerforever
Banned
Some valid points, but there must be a reason why the game was downgraded and it is still pretty good in its current state.
If it was indeed downgraded to make the current gen versions look better then I would boycott it, but I doubt this would be the case!
If it was indeed downgraded to make the current gen versions look better then I would boycott it, but I doubt this would be the case!
I keep asking this - is the area used in the beta (specifically that cave with the skeletons), different now in the full game? Because that cave was pitch black in the beta, you needed the torch.
zephervack
Member
2 months is not enough to make that many changes, the beta was a completely different build, and most likely not a "beta", just a demo.
I wouldn't be surprised. I can't imagine they would have just dumped all that code in the recycle bin, never to be used again. The question now is just when we get the current gen versions.
They even removed the wind physics on your character's clothes? What the hell went on with the development of this game?
zephervack
Member
What if, the only area that was ever coded to have that lightning and attention to detail was the demo, what if they never made the rest of the game that pretty.
Thats my biggest fear.
We're not stupid, we know that but they obviously knew they were going to have performance issues a lot sooner than just 2 months ago in late january when they again showed off that ps3 build with all of the lighting etc. They should not have still been showing that build of the game to us so close to launch, we had hardly any media with what we eventually got so many of us were hoping that it would look like what we were expecting of the game and not those shitty screenshots etc.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
That's a bogus argument. Their job is to produce the best version they can within the allocated schedule. If at some point compromises need to be made, that decision is on them. Maybe they figured that having blighttown-esque frame-rates all over the place was worse than cutting down on the lighting, maybe the feedback from test was that the dark-room mechanic was simply un-fun.
Do you expect them to ignore stuff like that? What would you have them do, cancel the project because they underestimated peak-load conditions on aging hardware?
The bottom line is that they've delivered a 90+ Metacritic game, and whatever you think of the accuracy of your average review, that's as bona-fide a recognition that they made the right creative choices as it gets.
Its also why this "rage" is so misplaced and, frankly, just ingracious and despicably pedantic. FROM have produced a game that has reviewed exceptionally and judging by the comments on the OT thread, is extremely well liked by its players.
Meanwhile in this thread we have people metaphorically spitting in FROM's face because they feel "misled"...
jimmypython
Member
ENB's playthrough is up.
he talked about the torch thing very briely, starting from 18:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GartaU-2-2c
he talked about the torch thing very briely, starting from 18:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GartaU-2-2c
butman
Member
Dwight Schrute
Member
WHAT THE HECK ????? That was A MONTH ago ?!
Future PhaZe
Member
i feel the pain for ps3/360 users...this is unacceptable
as a pc player I'm waiting for the deep downgrade to be confirmed for that platform before I drop bombs
zephervack
Member
lol, all he says is that the torch gameplay is unnecessary now, and thats it doesnt mention the graphics, nothing.
It sounds to me like maybe the torch didn't work out mechanically? You remove things from a game for a few reasons: no time to finish it, it doesn't work mechanically, it doesn't work story/theme wise, or you can't execute on it with adequate performance.
They had the dynamic lighting performing, visually, on PS3, and took it out. So, in all likelihood, they ran out of time, OR the torch mechanic turned out to be a dud.
If it's the former, then Namco has some share of the blame for pushing the game out the door. If it's the latter, we're better off.
This is a much simpler theory than a conspiracy to double-sell current gen versions.
They had the dynamic lighting performing, visually, on PS3, and took it out. So, in all likelihood, they ran out of time, OR the torch mechanic turned out to be a dud.
If it's the former, then Namco has some share of the blame for pushing the game out the door. If it's the latter, we're better off.
This is a much simpler theory than a conspiracy to double-sell current gen versions.
Ridiculous. Namco were advertising the dragon section with the dynamic lightning in one of the later trailers. Not one reviewer has mentioned the downgrade. The beta which was only a few months ago showing the dynamic lighting! They had players test out the game. I thought people learnt from the last journalism gate that the industry needs a complete revamp because it isn't working. I don't care that the game is 90+ from a gaming publication. It seems these days we have to wait until it's in the hands of the public to get the true review.
Candescence
Member
I think you went rather overboard with that, mate.
For God's sake, people, I understand why everyone's upset, but if From couldn't make the game as it originally was run at playable framerates and they had to cut things down to make it playable, well, that's an unfortunate but reasonable sacrifice. It sucks, but I'd rather have game that plays really well and runs at a reasonable framerate than one that has all the bells and whistles but an abysmal framerate a good chunk of the time.
Stone Ocean
Member
The lack of the torch mechanic doesn't justify the visual downgrade. They could've done that without it.
But the frame rate is still supposedly poor :/
If that were the case I'd think that we would have heard something by now.
zephervack
Member
Even if the torch mechanic was boring or out of place or whatever, why also remove all the nice lightning, as well as change textures for the worse, the game looks completely different.
Polioliolio
Member
That area was probably intended to be much much darker then... but they left in the torch mechanic... for what reason??
He confirms it right there. You don't have to do it. I was waiting for him to say there was another point to lighting those "way points" but there isn't.
I encourage the original post to be updated with responses from people like Epicnamebro, vaatividya, From Software, Namco, etc, and anyone else who we can get a response out of. Clearly this is a big issue, and whether it was because of technical limitations, or some other reason, getting answers and publicizing it all is the way to go.
Wow I played a little before going to sleep and the graphics and fps are really rough. Having played Dragons Dogma on ps3, the iq seems to be better on ds2 but the fps is even worse, Dark Souls 1 also seems much smoother for me.
I've only played the first area, with only like 3 dogs besides my character and the framerate seemed pretty bad, even inside that hut the framerate seemed to be lower than 30). That's awful, I was very hyped for this game and the beta being better doesn't make any sense to me, very shady stuff :/.
I've only played the first area, with only like 3 dogs besides my character and the framerate seemed pretty bad, even inside that hut the framerate seemed to be lower than 30). That's awful, I was very hyped for this game and the beta being better doesn't make any sense to me, very shady stuff :/.
Dark Souls 2 on PS3 hovers around 20 FPS, the 360 version runs around 30 FPS with tons of screen tearing I believe.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Know I'm sure. That demo never ran on a PS3. Impossible that big a difference is almost next-gen vs old gen.
Is hard to know I'll play something that is not supossed to look as the old demo. If that demo never existed it would have been so much better, but is not just the graphics, the ambientation has been totally destroyed...
My only hope is the PC version.
The thing is, they should have been upfront about it instead of letting people find out after they purchased the game.
This'd be a fuckup of epic proportions. Somehow I doubt it.
But that drawbridge comparison shot breaks my heart.
IT BREAKS MY HEART FROM
Coreda
Member
Maybe, but the latest speculation in this thread is now whether there were two separate games - the demo and the retail.
The demo being a glorified version of a few areas for the press made by one team, while the retail being worked on by the core devs.
Candescence
Member
On PS3. Apparently the framerate is a rock-solid 30fps on 360.
Of course, that's irrelevant to me, since I'm getting the inevitably superior PC version.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Because their job is reviewing the game, not its promotional materials perhaps.
Hire me, FROM. I can adjust contrast levels.
pls
This is ridiculous, what a total downgrade.
If I were you I'd keep my expectations in check.
No it isn't.
Okay, after being corrected about the ps3 footage and this whole downgrade debacle, I admit I screwed up. However, after watching that I instantly said to myself that there's no way a ps3 could ever run that. It's shitty the devs said this is actual ingame footage, but anyone with a brain should've had doubts from the get go.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I know, but is basically the only hope right now.
zephervack
Member
So Steam lists the game at 14 GB, while the PS3 Download is only 5.2 GB, dont want to give anyone false hope, as lightning would never account for such a big difference in file size but weird none the less.
So.... uh
how comfortable are you with coding a lighting engine, Durante?
It will be sad if the PC version ends up coming out and looks no better than PS3/360.
Here's the thing, you say "Their job is to produce the best version they can within the allocated schedule" as if you actually believe From/Namco did that job. To me it's clear From has been making misfortunately bad creative choices right from the beginning and should have thought through production better. It's clear the game was unfinished, botched towards the end of development and desperately needed a delay. I'm glad the game isn't blight town level broken, but what we ended up with, given the context of the marketing, is still not really acceptable and in ways it's even worse than blight town given the gameplay mechanics and atmosphere that were gutted. From could have avoided this if they were smarter during their 3 year development cycle, hence it's their fault. They didn't "do" their job - they hardly scraped through.
I don't care what the reviewers said, nor do I think the score system would even be able to treat this situation fairly (how do you score a great game which is obviously still unfit for release in the context of development cycle/goals?) And, as a video floating around on here nicely puts it, those pretty "review scores" aren't even targeted at us.
I'm sure the game is good from a gameplay point, but it's still hugely disappointing because From/Namco broke promises to their fans, made some huge errors and hoped nobody would care.
Yes the timing of it all is very damning for them. So weird...
Pocky4Th3Win
Member
Meh, I think people are blowing it out of proportion. The game still looks better than the original and its fun as shit. I'm happy...
Now if I could ever learn the new timing, stun locks are a bitch in this game.
Now if I could ever learn the new timing, stun locks are a bitch in this game.
That's the explanation I really hope is true. Would love to see that their approach is consistent with most other devs - PC first and port down, stripping features as you need to in order to get it running smooth. That would bode well for the PC release next month.
Agreed with showing the best version but I'm also of the opinion that you should clearly label it as such. Showing PS3/Xbox controller prompts on PC versions during demos is very misleading and a practice done by a fair few at E3s gone by. As long as people know what they're looking at, I'm fine with showing the lead version first and foremost.
Here's another shot of the fire from the video I did, if anyone wants it.
Compare that to this:
zephervack
Member
So.... uh
how comfortable are you with reactivating a dynamic lighting engine buried in From's code, Durante?
I have bad news for you.
Earlier in the thread he said it would be hard and that he wouldnt want to be the one to do it.