Support NeoGAF

[gofreak]

I think if Facebook was serious about content investment, per Luckey's suggestion, it could create a lucrative scenario for developers. For a while anyway.

Devs working on VR content should hedge their bets between OR and Morpheus, and then let exclusivity battles commence. I'm not suggesting that Sony would put up a matching content fund, but if FB/Oculus wants a dev's content exclusively they'll have to pay something up in those circumstances, even if Sony isn't counter-offering anything.

It might pay devs not to 'gift' content exclusively to Oculus any more. Get a bit of that FB pie!

 

[itsgreen]

Have they announced how open they will remain?

Will I be able to use the Rift without Facebook account?
Will I be able to use the Rift for apps that aren't affiliated with Facebook in any way (i.e. not in their store)?
etc

 

[NemesisPrime]

There is a lot of squirming going on in those replies.

Like somebody said... FB is an ad company like Google. I do not want any of those companies to provide my hardware TBH.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

Have they announced how open they will remain?

Will I be able to use the Rift without Facebook account?
Will I be able to use the Rift for apps that aren't affiliated with Facebook in any way (i.e. not in their store)?
etc

Palmer says yes to both questions. He says yes because if he says anything other than yes, then he's fucked. Saying yes doesn't actually say anything as this product is still a year or two away and everything can change

Spoiler

for the worst

.

 

[SparkTR]

In light of the aversion against Facebook, which company would be a more acceptable investor? Google? Microsoft? Apple? They're all shareholder-driven monoliths with a desire to lock customers into their own ecosystems, engaging in patent warfare and general corporate bullying.

Gamer-oriented giants like EA or Valve likely don't have the cash on hand to match what Facebook is offering.

If we accept that huge investments are necessary to perfect this technology and turn it into a new mass medium, I really don't see why Facebook is worse than the alternatives.

Samsung would have been good.

 

[DrROBschiz]

I think that massive flow of cash is going to divide them and make them lose focus.

One of the benefits of being the self made company they were before was that they have the driving force of adversity.

Now that the shackles are off im not sure they can handle such a huge budget leap with a level head and he seems to over estimate the freedom he is being "promised".

Im typically not a cynic but this has a rough future ahead of it.

You cant just dump money on people and expect the same level of drive and creativity that brought this about in the first place.

I think he wanted a safety net considering how crazy risky betting on VR tech is.

 

[Turin Turambar]

I think Facebook detractors are really over-blowing this news.

That said, there is one thing where they are right. The real problem when you are bought is that now the "we promise" he repeat several times doesn't mean anything. He can't promise anything because when you are bought, the real decision makers are other people.

 

[Turin Turambar]

Have they announced how open they will remain?

Will I be able to use the Rift without Facebook account?
Will I be able to use the Rift for apps that aren't affiliated with Facebook in any way (i.e. not in their store)?
etc

Maybe you could try to read the OP.

 

[DrROBschiz]

I think Facebook detractors are really over-blowing this news.

That said, there is one thing where they are right. The real problem when you are bought is that now the "we promise" he repeat several times doesn't mean anything. He can't promise anything because when you are bought, the real decision makers are other people.

Yeah he seriously has no leverage

The community couldnt even bail him out if facebook decides to change focus/direction on a whim

He must have seen the writing on the wall with VR and decided he needed a retirement strategy.

 

[Chili]

A lot of the hate around this deal seems to be based around how the plucky independent developer is now owned by an evil megacorporation ("selling out", really? This isn't your favourite rock band going commercial). Being an independent hardware developer, no matter how visionary they may be, is a risky venture.

I am looking forward to the Oculus Rift as much as anyone, but there is no guarantee of success in this industry. CV1 might have launched with overpriced and/or subpar hardware thanks to having to use off-the-shelf parts, it might have launched with a lack of content thanks to developers being lured to Sony's Morpheus, it might fail because of advertising, maybe their development tools weren't up to scratch thanks to limited staff numbers - either way all this boils down to a lack of funding. This now won't be a problem going forward and gives CV1 the best chance to succeed.

The fact is the Facebook deal doesn't guarantee any of the above, but it allows them the best chance to be hugely successful (for gaming and beyond). Especially with increasing competition and how any established hardware company that cobble together something that matches the Rift, I'm not surprised Palmer Luckey wanted to sell to help secure the future of the company (and himself) in the face of rising uncertainty. It would have been foolish in hindsight had they gone up against competitors and failed with the knowledge that a deal with Facebook or whichever entity could have helped.

I don't use Facebook, I have no interest in using it but, if anything, I'm glad that Facebook is the one to buy them and not Apple or MS who are extremely aggressive with closing their systems and pushing their services.

 

[DieH@rd]

 

[Hellshy.]

I think that massive flow of cash is going to divide them and make them lose focus.

One of the benefits of being the self made company they were before was that they have the driving force of adversity.

Now that the shackles are off im not sure they can handle such a huge budget leap with a level head and he seems to over estimate the freedom he is being "promised".

Im typically not a cynic but this has a rough future ahead of it.

You cant just dump money on people and expect the same level of drive and creativity that brought this about in the first place.

I think he wanted a safety net considering how crazy risky betting on VR tech is.

I can't help but think Sony releasing morpheus put pressure on OR. I guess they weren't so happy about that news as they were claiming. Just speculation ofcourse .

 

[Dorsal Axe]

Personally I think that regardless of whether the public reaction to Oculus and Facebook is warranted or not, the damage has been done. It probably won't kill it outright, but now there is real room for competition.

Anyway, as for Palmer Luckey... the more this guy opens this mouth, the more foolish and naïve he seems.

We promise we won't change. If anything, our hardware and software will get even more open, and Facebook is onboard with that.

Because this is about the best possible outcome for the future of virtual reality, not my wallet.

Just promise me there will be no specific Facebook tech tie-ins.

I promise.

Why would we want to sell to someone like MS or Apple? So they can tear the company apart and use the pieces to build out their own vision of virtual reality, one that fits whatever current strategy they have? Not a chance.

I understand the reaction. He repeatedly promised that he wouldn't sell out, that he valued "the dream" more than money. Then he goes and does the exact opposite. I suppose it's a betrayal of those who believed in him. Why should anyone trust a word that he says ever again? How is he even in a position now to guarantee these promises? Zuckerberg's contradicted him already.

It seems possible that he has either been duped big time or greatly overestimated his end of the bargain. But he could and should have kept his mouth shut. So now his stupid comments are getting the reaction they deserve.

At least John Carmack has the good sense to keep his head down, stay quiet and let it all blow over.

 

[MaLDo]

Zuckerberg's contradicted him already.

No.

 

[Seanspeed]

Personally I think that regardless of whether the public reaction to Oculus and Facebook is warranted or not, the damage has been done. It probably won't kill it outright, but now there is real room for competition.

Anyway, as for Palmer Luckey... the more this guy opens this mouth, the more foolish and naïve he seems.

I think a lot of the people complaining weren't VR enthusiasts in the first place. But of course a good chance to jump in and outrage over something is too much to pass over.

Most of the people *properly* interested in VR seem to be being far more reasonable about all of this.

Oculus just need to show that they're still about the games. Which I'm sure they will do. It will shut a lot of people up. I remember when Microsoft revealed the Xbox One, everybody thought they'd completely given up on gaming and whatnot, yet proved everybody wrong later at E3.

As for Palmer being stupid or naïve or whatever, lets just wait and see. I think he has the chance to prove a lot of people very wrong.

 

[diaspora]

I don't know why people keep bringing up morpheus. Sony's current HMDs are shit, why would a new one be any different?

 

[Metallix87]

They've opened up a perfect opportunity for, say, Valve to become the definitive VR company on PCs.

 

[PoweredBySoy]

Dude's 21. He wanted the money.

Yeeeup. Any interest I had in Oculus is now gone, but good for him, I would have done the same thing.

 

[Jhriad]

Q Just promise me there will be no specific Facebook tech tie-ins.

A I promise.
Why would we want to sell to someone like MS or Apple? So they can tear the company apart and use the pieces to build out their own vision of virtual reality, one that fits whatever current strategy they have? Not a chance.

Because he's going to have complete say over whether or not there is Facebook technology integration until the end of time. /sarcasm

They took donations to get off the ground and then sold out for billions of dollars. Sorry, that's not going to engender positive feelings about you or your product.

 

[Dorsal Axe]

As for Palmer being stupid or naïve or whatever, lets just wait and see. I think he has the chance to prove a lot of people very wrong.

I hope so, but I'm not reassured by what I see today. Slamming other companies (hypocritically too) to justify an acquisition is not a great start. Nor is making promises over something he no longer fully controls. I wish he had just stayed well out of those comments.

 

[DrROBschiz]

Yeeeup. Any interest I had in Oculus is now gone, but good for him, I would have done the same thing.

It was honestly the best move for him personally. Im surprised he is staying onboard to say the least.

The big competition is closing in like sharks. It made sense to sell in any perspective outside of the ideal independent creed (which we love)

Indie VR is pretty much dead until it falls out of the mainstream again. Which it will.

 

[Triple U]

Why would that happen?

Facebook wouldn't want a return on their investment?

They didn't just decide to globally subsidize VR, I am certain.

Nope.

The claim they barely even know how they plan to monetize OR, only that they're sure it won't be hardware. No way they are planning to handicap themselves any further.

I don't know why people keep bringing up morpheus. Sony's current HMDs are shit, why would a new one be any different?

So you missed all of GDC then?

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Because he's going to have complete say over whether or not there is Facebook technology integration until the end of time. /sarcasm

They took donations to get off the ground and then sold out for billions of dollars. Sorry, that's not going to engender positive feelings about you or your product.

When did they take donations?

 

[demosthenes]

I don't know why people keep bringing up morpheus. Sony's current HMDs are shit, why would a new one be any different?

Because feedback was good so far? And people want to hope.

 

[nephilimdj]

People on here and reddit confuse me, ocolus was pretty much had the destiny to be a dud, they didn't have the money to launch worldwide (90million raised in total).

Facebook can put demo stations in 50,000 stores worldwide, advertise the hell out of it, pay morning tv shows to show it off ect.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Perfect.

 

[Triple U]

People on here and reddit confuse me, ocolus was pretty much had the destiny to be a dud, they didn't have the money to launch worldwide (90million raised in total).

Facebook can put demo stations in 50,000 stores worldwide, advertise the hell out of it, pay morning tv shows to show it off ect.

They could've gotten picked up by any major company. Its the fact that they chose facebook of everybody that makes this significant. This argument doesn't really hold much weight.

 

[Ithil]

They could've gotten picked up by any major company. Its the fact that they chose facebook of everybody that makes this significant. This argument doesn't really hold much weight.

What makes Facebook any different as a major company to the rest?

 

[Seanspeed]

I hope so, but I'm not reassured by what I see today. Slamming other companies (hypocritically too) to justify an acquisition is not a great start. Nor is making promises over something he no longer fully controls. I wish he had just stayed well out of those comments.

Where is he slamming other companies?

And really, I think Palmer has proven enough of a straightforward guy that I can trust that he wouldn't say these things if there was no truth to them. Its true he doesn't actually have complete control, but I'm sure that they've got something worked out that he can reassure people like this with some confidence.

 

[ZehDon]

Pure quality.

 

[DrROBschiz]

People on here and reddit confuse me, ocolus was pretty much had the destiny to be a dud, they didn't have the money to launch worldwide (90million raised in total).

Facebook can put demo stations in 50,000 stores worldwide, advertise the hell out of it, pay morning tv shows to show it off ect.

Its a stunning achievement honestly

To raise 90 million independently, deliver a solid and hyped product(for what it is) and then get bought for 2 Billion.

Great stuff. I feel bad for those heavily and emotionally invested in the dream though.

Luckily I never bought into the idea. Just too big an upfront cost but they certainly brought it back fron the grave.

VR gaming will be a supported reality going forward it seems. Just not sure it will ever get out of its Niche space

 

[diaspora]

So you missed all of GDC then?

No.

Because feedback was good so far? And people want to hope.

Feedback wasn't bad on their HMDs but I hadn't learned how bad they are until I used it.

 

[w1ck3dn1nj4]

Have they announced how open they will remain?

Will I be able to use the Rift without Facebook account?
Will I be able to use the Rift for apps that aren't affiliated with Facebook in any way (i.e. not in their store)?
etc

There’s only one way they will announce this to be honest.

Early years phase 1: Announce OR will still be open and FB’s backing of such ideals. This will help steady ship and dissuade fears. Deployment of shills will be helpful during this stage.

Later years growth 2: Extend reach and embracement of OR but ever so slowly, start adding “FB elements” in the background under the guise of “added value”. Patience and craftiness is key to success here.

End game stage 3: Once adoption is entrenched, or lock in momentum becomes difficult to reverse, then increase use of more “FB elements” as it’s no longer a commercial danger to do so. Welcome to the all new Oculus Rift, “where you get to experience what it’s like to be in a room of targeted ads based on your Facebook profile.”

 

[Calabi]

I'm wondering if this wont have the same problem as Microsoft has with the Xbox One and Kinect.

The product trying to be advertised and sold to the wrong audience and failing to sell to that audience. I cant really see how they sell something like this to the mainstream. Maybe they will have it better on the price but then it will require a decent expensive PC. A few gimmick things where you can walk around places will be interesting but they wont sell it. And if its under cooked with not many decent games but has elements of intrusive facebook elements it wont sell many to the hardcore.

I think it would have been better if they had the slow cook valve method. I can see Facebook pushing it hard until it breaks.

 

[Nzyme32]

Short term is still looking good. Long term is where things get convoluted.

For the sake of gaming, if anyone does choose to have an Oculus Rift, make sure your purchases of games are from a platform agnostic source, if there even is one available.

The worst case scenario is that 10 years from now, facebook does the google+ youtube switch and all access to the platform is integrated with the service. Worse still is the possibility purchased games being tied to facebook use.

As long as you make sure the purchases you make are platform agnostic where possible, competitors should be around at a later stage when the inevitable facebook milking occurs

 

[EVIL]

No.



Feedback wasn't bad on their HMDs but I hadn't learned how bad they are until I used it.

Sony's VR solution is on almost the same level as the Devkit 2 from oculus.

you need to forget those old sony HMD's exist. They have no dialogue in VR discussions.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

They want to own the VR medium in the long term. In the short term, the best way to do that is making the most appealing hardware/software platform they can. Which involves not overpricing it, and not sabotaging it early on by mandatory Facebook integration or ads.

In the long term you are opening that spot to be taken. They aren't gonna sit with VR tech for years and do nothing. Dosn't make sense.

Is not like they own patents and shit to protect that market for years.

 

[20cent]

I don't know why people keep bringing up morpheus. Sony's current HMDs are shit, why would a new one be any different?

HMD...means Head Mounted Display, not Virtual Reality headset. They are personal video viewer. How is that even related to VR? It's like comparing a digital photo frame and a tablet.

 

[WarMacheen]

Doesn't matter what Palmer promises. The OC will probably launch with minimal FB elements, though down the line FB will become more integrated.

Update: We're on the call now, and Mark Zuckerberg is already pointing out Facebook's acquisition of Instagram as an example of how the company is getting experience buying properties and allowing them to continue to operate independently. Zuckerberg called out virtual reality as one of the computing platforms of the future -- following desktops and mobile -- and yes, talked about building Facebook's advertising into it. Specifically, he talked about the potential of a virtual communication network, buying virtual goods, and down the line, advertising.

engadget

 

[Dolor]

I am certainly glad I hadn't gotten myself invested in OR at this point.

My chief concern is that they tie their hardware to proprietary software somehow. It already sounds like they want a piece of Steam's business by opening their own store etc. This in no way will improve by adding Facebook to the mix.

And anyone who thinks that Palmer Luckey now actually makes decisions at the company has never worked at a Fortune 500 company. He will make suggestions and proposals, but people above him (real gamers I am sure! /sarcasm) will have the final say.

 

[Boken]

There is a lot of squirming going on in those replies.

Like somebody said... FB is an ad company like Google. I do not want any of those companies to provide my hardware TBH.

how about those companies providing your operating systems?
do you see ad's everywhere?

"talked about it"
he could've said it was a bad idea and that would be "talking about it"

like google ads on andriod, itll be an app by app basis. its absolutely moronic to ad-ify hardware, as hardware companies traditionally make money off licensing - which requires them to sell as much hardware as they can. its pointless to put ads on a hardware level to turn off a large majority of buyers.

 

[Azih]

Facebook is a public company and a 2 billion dollar acquisition is a huge news maker. Zuckerberg will have to justify to his investors why he's throwing so much money at risky new tech. Especially since it's bleeding edge VR hardware which doesn't have any obvious relation to a online social networking service. It's gotta be monetized in a way that relates to Facebook's core competency. It's not a Valve like situation where Newell is the owner and gets to do whatever he wants without answering to anybody as long as the business is sustaining itself.

 

[Boken]

Facebook is a public company and a 2 billion dollar acquisition is a huge news maker. Zuckerberg will have to justify to his investors why he's throwing so much money at risky new tech. Especially since it's bleeding edge VR hardware which doesn't have any obvious relation to a online social networking service. It's gotta be monetized in a way that relates to Facebook's core competency. It's not a Valve like situation where Newell is the owner and gets to do whatever he wants without answering to anybody as long as the business is sustaining itself.

its almost like.... theyre expanding into a new market!

:O

 

[ab.aeterno]

Samsung would have been good.

The same company that's artificially enforcing a walled-garden ecosystem on it's wearable tech? I wouldn't trust them at all. Their priorities are antithesis to what Oculus would want.

 

[Nibiru]

Dude's 21. He wanted the money.

This. It would be better if he just said this instead of all the BS.

 

[LogicStep]

At first I was worried but after reading the op I can see that this is good news. Hopefully we get an amazing product by the end of the year or during 2015. Can't wait to see all the applications and games that will be created for this platform. The future is really looking promising.

 

[thehypocrite]

I wish the best for OR VR and this young man on his latest challenges. However I get this naivete emitting from his answers that give me no confidence in him.

 

[Son of Cervantes]

Meh, I mostly feel sorry for the Kickstarter investors. A friend of mine donated to their KS campaign. Not sure how much, but enough to get one of the first prototype units. Anywhere else, he would've gotten some return on what was essentially an investment in VR tech. With KS, all he got was a piece of hardware which is technically already obsolete.

I'm interested in VR as an experience. The idea of being able to do virtual tourism, for example, is very appealing to me. Or using the headset to communicate with someone like they're actually on the room with you. And I think the Facebook acquisition will make OR lean in those directions. But I'm also interested in VR as a gaming device, and I don't think I'm going to like what FB will do with the technology in that respect.

And as for Palmer Luckey...if I were 21 years old and someone offered me two billion dollars for my little startup, there is no way I would turn that money down, no matter how much I believed in my VR 'dream.'

 

[Boken]

I'm interested in VR as an experience. The idea of being able to do virtual tourism, for example, is very appealing to me. Or using the headset to communicate with someone like they're actually on the room with you. And I think the Facebook acquisition will make OR lean in those directions. But I'm also interested in VR as a gaming device, and I don't think I'm going to like what FB will do with the technology in that respect.
'

OR is a DISPLAY DEVICE. anything inherently beneficial to VR (low lat, high refresh, high res) is beneficial to gaming

nothing facebook will do will affect your ability to play games

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Meh, I mostly feel sorry for the Kickstarter investors. A friend of mine donated to their KS campaign. Not sure how much, but enough to get one of the first prototype units. Anywhere else, he would've gotten some return on what was essentially an investment in VR tech. With KS, all he got was a piece of hardware which is technically already obsolete.

Kickstarter backers got what they bought, and they were told specifically it would be obsolete.