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GBA VC on Wii U starting April 3rd

J

JoeM86

Member
RiggyRob said:
Ah ok, I was wondering if it had something to do with the brightness changes.
Click to expand...

Na, you can see there's still deep blacks elsewhere in the picture

JasonMCG said:
I wonder (if Nintendo ever comes around to universal account) if we'll be able to play GBA games on our 3DS'...
LIKE WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO ANYWAY
Click to expand...

3DS? No. It's not possible (please let's not get into this again). The next handheld, however? Highly likely. Hell, I'm doubting we'll have to pay again with the next home console & handheld Virtual Consoles thanks to the NNID and their plans with it.
 
K

Kai Dracon

Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
JoeM86 said:
3DS? No. It's not possible (please let's not get into this again). The next handheld, however? Highly likely. Hell, I'm doubting we'll have to pay again with the next home console & handheld Virtual Consoles thanks to the NNID and their plans with it.
Click to expand...

A lot of people are going to say "ha ha Nintendo wants 2 sell u same game over and over"
even though Wii U is the only backwards compatible console and 3DS plays DS games

But I seem to recall someone from Nintendo did actually mention using the ID system to avoid repurchases in the future. Can't recall which talking head said that at the moment.
 
JaseMath

JaseMath

Member
JoeM86 said:
3DS? No. It's not possible (please let's not get into this again). The next handheld, however? Highly likely. Hell, I'm doubting we'll have to pay again with the next home console & handheld Virtual Consoles thanks to the NNID and their plans with it.
Click to expand...

Not trying to argue, but I have to ask: why is is "not possible" considering there's already ambassador GBA titles?
 
R

Ridley327

Member
JasonMCG said:
Not trying to argue, but I have to ask: why is is "not possible" considering there's already ambassador GBA titles?
Click to expand...

They're not being fully emulated on the 3DS. It's a kind of Frankenstein solution that involves the DS mode being tricked into running in GBA mode, so you won't get the advantages of the normal VC emulation benefits like custom controller mapping and save states. On top of that, the solution they did go with for the ambassador games hit some of the games with a nasty blurring effect that makes it tough to play the games.

A full-on emulator for the 3DS would fix all that, of course, but there's a good chance that the 3DS isn't powerful enough to pull it off at a level that Nintendo feels comfortable with, which is why we're not seeing these games on there.
 
J

JoeM86

Member
JasonMCG said:
Not trying to argue, but I have to ask: why is is "not possible" considering there's already ambassador GBA titles?
Click to expand...

Ok, you generally don't know so I'll answer.

The way the Ambassador titles work is by running the 3DS in DS mode in GBA mode. This is very taxing on the processors (it uses both apparently rather than just one) and thus locks out every bit of 3DS tech, including sleep mode. The games also have emulation issues due to this

For accuracy reasons, and the fact that they can't resell something so gimped, Nintendo can't sell it.

When you do software emulation on a device with a different architecture to the original, in order to get it close to accurate (with no game breaking glitches), then you need a lot of power and creative coding. People have built rigs of up to 3ghz processors to try and get accurate SNES emulation, for example
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/...-3ghz-quest-to-build-a-perfect-snes-emulator/

It's not as simple as releasing a ROM file for people to download.
 
L

Linkstrikesback

Member
JasonMCG said:
Not trying to argue, but I have to ask: why is is "not possible" considering there's already ambassador GBA titles?
Click to expand...

It is possible, Joe just believes everything that comes out of PR's mouth even if it's clearly a (stupid) business tactic and at the very best massively bending the truth. There really was nothing wrong with the GBA games and Nintendo has no problem selling DSiware on the eShop which share all the same issues (barring sleep mode being automatic on closing the system. Sleep mode, of course is still included in some GBA games as a menu option, but you have to activate it manually).

edit: oh god that article
So what’s a Virtual Console title worth without a sleep mode, save states, customisable controls, a digital manual and possibly even multiplayer? Well, nothing,
Click to expand...

Confirmed: Wii VC games worthless without some of those things. Also confirmed: The ambassador GBA games digital manuals were all a massive shared hallucination. I also can't wait to hear how the multiplayer that it would be worthless without is going to work on wii u.
 
O

Outtrigger888

Member
Exile20 said:
Was this posted?

- GBA releases were artificially brightened due to the GBA's lack of a backlit screen
- Wii U GBA VC releases have been corrected for brightness
- screen-smoothing option available via menu or pushing in the right joystick
- games are upscaled to take up a 1620×1080 block on your TV
- option to play with Original Resolution is available
- this option upscales to the largest whole factor it can on the screen: 1440×960
- navigate the instruction booklet on the GamePad while the game continues on TV
Click to expand...

I posted in a previous thread, about the gba manuals, hoping for this feature.

All these features sold me on picking up some of the games.

How does Metroid Fusion compare to Super Metroid?
 
R

Ridley327

Member
Outtrigger888 said:
I posted in a previous thread, about the gba manuals, hoping for this fearure.

All these features sold me on picking up some of the games.

How does Metroid Fusion compare to Super Metroid?
Click to expand...

I think that you'll find the consensus is that Fusion is the lesser of the two games, but it's still a damn good game that has a pretty unique feel, thanks to the presence of SA-X.
 
L

LegendofLex

Member
JasonMCG said:
I wonder (if Nintendo ever comes around to universal account) if we'll be able to play GBA games on our 3DS'...
LIKE WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO ANYWAY
Click to expand...

Nintendo has stated in the past that Wii U is going to be absorbed into their future architecture, which will be shared across handhelds and consoles. (Rather than fragmented as under their current development strategy.)

So all the games they're putting on Wii U will be leveraged on all their future hardware (whereas 3DS VC catalogs will be largely deadweight from a development standpoint).
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
JoeM86 said:
Ok, you generally don't know so I'll answer.

The way the Ambassador titles work is by running the 3DS in DS mode in GBA mode. This is very taxing on the processors (it uses both apparently rather than just one) and thus locks out every bit of 3DS tech, including sleep mode. The games also have emulation issues due to this

For accuracy reasons, and the fact that they can't resell something so gimped, Nintendo can't sell it.

When you do software emulation on a device with a different architecture to the original, in order to get it close to accurate (with no game breaking glitches), then you need a lot of power and creative coding. People have built rigs of up to 3ghz processors to try and get accurate SNES emulation, for example
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/...-3ghz-quest-to-build-a-perfect-snes-emulator/

It's not as simple as releasing a ROM file for people to download.
Click to expand...

Ambassador GBA on 3DS is running natively, it's not emulated. The biggest reason not to sell it is like this probably the total lack of sleep mode, which is kind of a huge bummer.

Emulating GBA on 3DS would likely be possible but not without significant work and some undesirable hacks for performance. You wouldn't need bsnes level of accuracy, but even getting close enough might be hard on the 3DS CPU.
 
R

RiggyRob

Member
JasonMCG said:
Not trying to argue, but I have to ask: why is is "not possible" considering there's already ambassador GBA titles?
Click to expand...

The Ambassador games were a rushed hackjob in comparison to how Nintendo usually operates, and they'd ideally not like to do it again with the whole GBA game catalogue. While the Ambassador games show it is possible for GBA games to be on 3DS, in reality it just isn't practical, especially if the emulation is not 100% issue-free.
 
J

JoeM86

Member
Linkstrikesback said:
It is possible, Joe just believes everything that comes out of PR's mouth even if it's clearly a (stupid) business tactic and at the very best massively bending the truth. There really was nothing wrong with the GBA games and Nintendo has no problem selling DSiware on the eShop which share all the same issues (barring sleep mode being automatic on closing the system. Sleep mode, of course is still included in some GBA games as a menu option, but you have to activate it manually).
Click to expand...

DSiWare is different to claiming something as a Virtual Console game and then locking out other features for it. Also, I don't believe everything that comes out of PR's mouth, especially as they have said nothing on this.
 
R

Ridley327

Member
Crispy said:
Thanks for this article, I was having trouble believing it couldn't be done on the 3DS.

Still I wonder: GBA emulation works very well on the PSP, which, I can imagine, is quite a bit less powerful than the 3DS. So shouldn't it be easy for Nintendo to develop an emulator with their knowledge of the GBA and 3DS hardware?
Click to expand...

Nintendo is kinda super anal about accuracy for the performance in VC games. They even went as far to patch Star Fox 64 on the Wii to run like it did originally, as the original VC release ran smoother than how it was on the N64.

They're somewhat insane.
 
J

jimi_dini

Member
Crispy said:
Still I wonder: GBA emulation works very well on the PSP, which, I can imagine, is quite a bit less powerful than the 3DS. So shouldn't it be easy for Nintendo to develop an emulator with their knowledge of the GBA and 3DS hardware?
Click to expand...

"works very well" as in perfectly without any framedrops nor any performance issues what-so-ever and also with perfect audio quality?

Or "works very well" as in "at least I get 2 digit frames per second most of the time and it was free, so I won't complain".
 
C

Crispy

Member
jimi_dini said:
"works very well" as in perfectly without any framedrops nor any performance issues what-so-ever and also with perfect audio quality?

Or "works very well" as in "at least I get 2 digit frames per second most of the time and it was free, so I won't complain".
Click to expand...

See my remark about HW power.
 
J

jimi_dini

Member
Crispy said:
See my remark about HW power.
Click to expand...

The knowledge about the actual hardware makes it easier to write emulation for it. It doesn't take away hardware requirements for accurate emulation.

Nintendo could have added a few more chips inside the 3DS, so that those could have been used to run GBA code natively. They didn't, because that would have increased the price per unit. Which is understandable. Maybe they even regret that now, GBA games in the 3DS eShop would surely get them tons of money.

In my opinion Nintendo already tried their best and the result was the ambassador give-away. It just wasn't good enough, which is okay. I prefer that approach over hacking something together so that it "works somewhat", then calling it a day and asking money for it.
 
B

Berordn

Member
Ridley327 said:
Nintendo is kinda super anal about accuracy for the performance in VC games. They even went as far to patch Star Fox 64 on the Wii to run like it did originally, as the original VC release ran smoother than how it was on the N64.

They're somewhat insane.
Click to expand...

Considering the recent trend of enhanced ports, it kind of makes sense to keep VC distinct as "the game as you remember it."

I'm not saying it's great for consumers or anything, but SF64 3D would be a hard sell if they were selling SF64 with unlocked framerate and hi-res textures.
 
A

AdanVC

Member
I have a question hope it's ok to ask here. I want to buy a Nintendo eShop prepaid card but I was wondering if I can use the same code to buy either for both consoles (Wii U/3DS)? Or do I have to get a card to buy Wii U stuff and another for 3DS? Thanks :)
 
R

Ridley327

Member
AdanVC said:
I have a question hope it's ok to ask here. I want to buy a Nintendo eShop prepaid card but I was wondering if I can use the same code to buy either for both consoles (Wii U/3DS)? Or do I have to get one card to buy Wii U stuff and another for 3DS? Thanks :)
Click to expand...
The wallets for both systems were merged in December.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
I don't know about the facts. All I know is that it's very disappointing that in this day and age, I still have to carry around my DS if I want to switch from Pokemon X to Pokemon Emerald.

At least I don't have it as bad as Europe with their 50Hz Super Metroid though.

Outtrigger888 said:
How does Metroid Fusion compare to Super Metroid?
Click to expand...
Not nearly as good, but still enjoyable. It's more of an action game, so there's much less exploration but the bosses are fun.
 
M

Mr-Joker

Banned
Crispy said:
Thanks for this article, I was having trouble believing it couldn't be done on the 3DS.

Still I wonder: GBA emulation works very well on the PSP, which, I can imagine, is quite a bit less powerful than the 3DS. So shouldn't it be easy for Nintendo to develop an emulator with their knowledge of the GBA and 3DS hardware?
Click to expand...

Nintendo probably could sink money and time into creating a working emulator for the 3DS, but it would be pointless if they plan to use the Wii U architecture as the bases for all future Nintendo consoles

jres80 said:
While I think VC prices are about 33% too high,
Click to expand...

I think they are fine, they are cheaper than buying a physical copy and offer more value than cheap mobile games.

jres80 said:
I can't get enough Castleroid.
Click to expand...

You go and see the doctor for that, since that isn't normal. ;)

Toxi said:
I don't know about the facts. All I know is that it's very disappointing that in this day and age, I still have to carry around my DS if I want to switch from Pokemon X to Pokemon Emerald.
Click to expand...

Even if the GBA games were on the 3DS you still would have to carry your DS if you wanted to from Pokémon X to Pokémon Emerald, as none of the main series Pokémon games are ever getting a virtual console release.
 
F

fredrancour

Member
Mr-Joker said:
Nintendo probably could sink money and time into creating a working emulator for the 3DS, but it would be pointless if they plan to use the Wii U architecture as the bases for all future Nintendo consoles
Click to expand...

What a horrifying thought... seems like something more standard would be more beneficial long-term.
 
C

Crispy

Member
jimi_dini said:
The knowledge about the actual hardware makes it easier to write emulation for it. It doesn't take away hardware requirements for accurate emulation. Nintendo could have added a few more chips inside the 3DS, so that those could have been used to run GBA code natively.
Click to expand...

But surely there are no native GBA chips in the Wii U? So I guess the Wii U is powerful enough to negate the need for native chips whereas the 3DS is not?


jimi_dini said:
In my opinion Nintendo already tried their best and the result was the ambassador give-away. It just wasn't good enough, which is okay. I prefer that approach over hacking something together so that it "works somewhat", then calling it a day and asking money for it.
Click to expand...

Yes I agree. I only bought a 2DS a few months ago, so I have no experience with the ambassador games and their shortcomings.
 
T

tuffy

Member
Crispy said:
But surely there are no native GBA chips in the Wii U? So I guess the Wii U is powerful enough to negate the need for native chips whereas the 3DS is not?
Click to expand...
That's the gist of it. The Wii U is emulating the GBA in software whereas the 3DS is using DS mode hardware features to power the Ambassador GBA titles. But we have no way of knowing whether Nintendo is unable to emulate GBA titles on the 3DS in software like other Virtual Console titles or if they're unwilling to do so.
 
R

Rich!

Member
Crispy said:
But surely there are no native GBA chips in the Wii U? So I guess the Wii U is powerful enough to negate the need for native chips whereas the 3DS is not?
Click to expand...

Well yeah, even the standard Wii can emulate GBA just fine. I played through Minish Cap on it a few weeks back.
 
R

Ridley327

Member
tuffy said:
That's the gist of it. The Wii U is emulating the GBA in software whereas the 3DS is using DS mode hardware features to power the Ambassador GBA titles. But we have no way of knowing whether Nintendo is unable to emulate GBA titles on the 3DS in software like other Virtual Console titles or if they're unwilling to do so.
Click to expand...

I can't imagine that they haven't tried to get an emulated solution to work on the 3DS for GBA. It's not like such a project would need to have a great deal of research being done for it to determine how worthwhile going down that route would be.
 
S

Scooter155

Member
Ridley327 said:
I can't imagine that they haven't tried to get an emulated solution to work on the 3DS for GBA. It's not like such a project would need to have a great deal of research being done for it to determine how worthwhile going down that route would be.
Click to expand...

This exactly. They've probably (possibly) looked into it and found it impossible or prohibitively difficult/expensive and decided against it. It's kind of silly when people post on here about how Nintendo just doesn't want to put GBA games on 3DS because they're stupid and hate money.

Sure, maybe, oooooor maybe they're telling the truth and aren't a company full of complete morons...
 
L

LegendofLex

Member
Scooter155 said:
This exactly. They've probably (possibly) looked into it and found it impossible or prohibitively difficult/expensive and decided against it. It's kind of silly when people post on here about how Nintendo just doesn't want to put GBA games on 3DS because they're stupid and hate money.

Sure, maybe, oooooor maybe they're telling the truth and aren't a company full of complete morons...
Click to expand...

The reality is probably more like this:

- Nintendo has heard complaints that they don't have a truly unified digital contents/account system on 3DS and Wii U.
- Since 3DS and Wii U use dramatically different architectures, implementing such a system across their current hardware offerings would be incredibly cost-inefficient.
- However, because their future devices will be built on the Wii U framework, Nintendo is unifying their key digital offerings on Wii U to make it easy/cost-effective to carry digital offerings over to the new architecture when it launches.

Unfortunately, the reality is also this:
- Tons of people complain that Nintendo hasn't implemented a truly unified digital contents/account system.
- These same tons of people want Nintendo to implement this unified digital contents/account system on devices that were not designed to support it (even if it means sunk development costs for 3DS, since none of that stuff will get carried over to future platforms by design).
 
S

Scooter155

Member
@Lex

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I'd be so incredibly jazzed if the Wii U is the start of VC purchases carrying forward to new consoles.
 
B

Bill Rizer

Member
KHlover said:
http://www.nintendo-insider.com/2014/04/02/smoothing-resolution-manuals-guide-gba-virtual-console/

Interesting. Original GBA manuals are godlike. Being able to enable/disable smoothing also is great.
Click to expand...

I'm quite amazed. Nintendo actually putting an effort in VC and doing what thay should have done since start?
Video options? Great.
Manual scans in full colour are also a definite selling point for me.

Question is, will/when Nintendo update nes/snes VC to be on par with this?
 
L

LegendofLex

Member
Scooter155 said:
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I'd be so incredibly jazzed if the Wii U is the start of VC purchases carrying forward to new consoles.
Click to expand...

It really does seem like it. I wish I was as confident in other (non-VC) digital purchases carrying forward. Then it'd be really, really easy to make the switch to digital.
 
R

rjc571

Banned
Ridley327 said:
They're not being fully emulated on the 3DS. It's a kind of Frankenstein solution that involves the DS mode being tricked into running in GBA mode, so you won't get the advantages of the normal VC emulation benefits like custom controller mapping and save states. On top of that, the solution they did go with for the ambassador games hit some of the games with a nasty blurring effect that makes it tough to play the games.
Click to expand...

How exactly is this a valid excuse not to sell them? The ambassador games still look great and play perfectly. I guarantee that a lot more people would prefer to play GBA games on a portable rather than on a console, even if the portable versions were missing some unnecessary features from the console versions.
 
solomon

solomon

Member
Can we use other controls besides the game pad? Would love to play with the games on my monitor and a classic controller pro.
 
R

Ridley327

Member
rjc571 said:
How exactly is this a valid excuse not to sell them? The ambassador games still look great and play perfectly. I guarantee that a lot more people would prefer to play GBA games on a portable rather than on a console, even if the portable versions were missing some unnecessary features from the console versions.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of people would disagree with them looking great (the motion blur that their method takes on is pretty nasty), but aside from that, I imagine that Nintendo would prefer to have a level of consistency to VC that the method that the ambassador games does not provide. I mean, consider what they can't do with the existing setup:

-they can't enter sleep mode when you close the screen, which requires you to do a manual sleep mode in the game itself, provided it supports the feature (which even amongst the games that Nintendo did release for the ambassadors was not a feature in every game, like Wario Land 4)

-they can't suspend play and access the 3DS home screen, which means no access to Miiverse for screenshot uploading

-you're at the mercy of the game's internal save feature, unlike the save states that a proper emulator provides

They're almost all "unnecessary," but they're features supported across the board in all of their other VC releases on the system, so why should GBA be exempt from that?
 
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