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Spring 2014 Tokyo MX, er, Anime |OT1.5| ORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORAORA
- Thread starter Mandoric
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PshycoNinja
Member
Well from what I have seen of The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, Kyon seems to just be more of the eyes and ears for the audience then being a vocal point of the show. And also the cynical narrator. When fight scenes happen he stands off to the side observing. When supporting characters tell him to just make Haruhi happy, he merely listens. When Haruhi wants to do something, Kyon's descending opinion falls on deaf ears. He feels more like a vehicle for the audience in order to experience all the crazy, then someone who is an integral part of the plot.
And I believe the story is exactly what every synopsis says:
KirbYuuYuu
Member
Anime Thursdays: Revenge
Midori Days
His hand has tits.....
Right hand jokes etc.
Hanamaru Kindergarten RE: 1
We liked it. Unfortunately, this suggested them to watch Kodomo no Jikan. Fuck my life.
Pilot Candidate 1
This is totally DTL the show. AND GOD DAMN IT TAI! GO BACK TO DIGIMON
Powerpuff Girls Z 1
Fuck my life. God fucking damn it Toei. I can't believe they liked this enough to make me suffer this via democracy
Mermaid Melody 1
The awfulness of PPGZ had me shitting for like... several minutes. I somewhat enjoyed it.
Mew Mew Power 1
*Not actually episode one of Tokyo Mew Mew*
Midori Days
His hand has tits.....
Right hand jokes etc.
Hanamaru Kindergarten RE: 1
We liked it. Unfortunately, this suggested them to watch Kodomo no Jikan. Fuck my life.
Pilot Candidate 1
This is totally DTL the show. AND GOD DAMN IT TAI! GO BACK TO DIGIMON
Powerpuff Girls Z 1
Fuck my life. God fucking damn it Toei. I can't believe they liked this enough to make me suffer this via democracy
Mermaid Melody 1
The awfulness of PPGZ had me shitting for like... several minutes. I somewhat enjoyed it.
Mew Mew Power 1
*Not actually episode one of Tokyo Mew Mew*
That has never stopped me before!
Anime getting saved.
PshycoNinja
Member
I hope I am presenting fair points and not coming across as just stubborn. That's not my intent.
Look, Melancholy has faded somewhat from my eyes in the last few years in terms of how good I think it is and all that stuff, but it's very difficult for me to believe that you could even possibly view it in such a way without realising that Kyon is the main protagonist and that it's him and his choices that largely drive the plot. Certainly he doesn't view himself as the protagonist, and he attempts to live his life as though he wasn't one, but he really can't escape it.
Admiral Woofington
Member
I think your definiton of protagonist greatly differs from what is established. Going by your way of thinking, Tidus was not the protagonist of FFX but a follower of what's her face. Importance to the universe=/= protagonist. You're not being stubborn, it's just weird to see somebody who views the show so differently. It feels almost like one of those blog posts discussing how all these recent disney movies are connected in the disneyverse, or how X story which clearly starred and followed a character as the protagonist is not what matters.
But it is what matter. She does w/e the fuck she wants because nobody allows him to call her out on her bullshit or have a negative effect. If a story follows the story of a knight who follows the orders of a king, as unhappy as he is, does it not make him the main character because ultimately he isn't affecting anything by his own will?
But it is what matter. She does w/e the fuck she wants because nobody allows him to call her out on her bullshit or have a negative effect. If a story follows the story of a knight who follows the orders of a king, as unhappy as he is, does it not make him the main character because ultimately he isn't affecting anything by his own will?
Save 'N Quit
Banned
Nanana's Buried Treasure 2
Oh god, what is happening.
I'm supposed to be thinking either sexy Manager-san or Nanana is best girl in the show.
But now comes in Ms. Detective and her Fino-like laugh and now I'm considering her to be the superior girl.
It's not supposed to be this way for me.
But the "things happening" aren't the story, how those things affect Kyon is the story. The whole point is what happens to Kyon and what he does in response to that. And he definitely takes an active role at times, that's the whole reason the other characters talk to him so that he doesn't let Haruhi go completely crazy and destroy everything.
Mockingbird
Member
Nanana's Buried Treasure 2
This show is great. Love the characters thus far. The treasure room challenge at the end is pretty cool too.
Black Bullet 2
Good ep. Didn't expect that kind of conflict this early. This and Nanana are my favorite shows this season thus far.
This show is great. Love the characters thus far. The treasure room challenge at the end is pretty cool too.
Black Bullet 2
Good ep. Didn't expect that kind of conflict this early. This and Nanana are my favorite shows this season thus far.
Yoda was an antagonist.
PshycoNinja
Member
I didn't say he's not the protagonist. That's not what I've been arguing. My two main points I've been arguing is his importance to the overall story and what he does besides just complaining about Haruhi. I don't think anyone can argue he's not the protagonist as he's literally the character we follow around the entire time and he's the narrator. Much like Titus as you've explained Woofington. Difference being that Titus was a more mild Haruhi and actually affected outcomes and fought mosters. Kyon mostly sits on the sidelines and observes (being that he's the eyes of the audience).
Arguably all the jedi were antagonists
...from a certain point of view.
(that point of view being anakin)
He is the story. That's his importance to it; it's his story. It's not, despite the title, Haruhi's story. It's not Itsuki's story, it's not Mikuru's story, it's not Yuki's story. It's Kyon's story. It's how the events affect him, and how he affects the events.
I don't think you're too far along so thus far much the story is events happening to Kyon and his reaction to them (i.e. non-reacting), but arguably the whole point of the Haruhi story is what it does to the kind of person that Kyon is.
...from a certain point of view.
(that point of view being anakin)
He is the story. That's his importance to it; it's his story. It's not, despite the title, Haruhi's story. It's not Itsuki's story, it's not Mikuru's story, it's not Yuki's story. It's Kyon's story. It's how the events affect him, and how he affects the events.
I don't think you're too far along so thus far much the story is events happening to Kyon and his reaction to them (i.e. non-reacting), but arguably the whole point of the Haruhi story is what it does to the kind of person that Kyon is.
I guess I'm still confused by what you think the "overall story" is, because I don't understand how you can separate the protagonist from the story. The definition of a protagonist is the character who plays the primary role in a narrative.
It is possible for the narrator of a story to not be the protagonist, and that seems to be how you're describing Kyon, except you also say that "I don't think anyone can argue he's not the protagonist." So I'm not sure which it is. If you think Kyon does nothing but sit on the sidelines and observe than he cannot possibly be the protagonist.
PshycoNinja
Member
We will have to agree to disagree on this for now (at least until The Disappearance). The story and world literally revolve around Haruhi Suzumiya. Despite the show focusing on Kyon, it's about Haruhi at the end of the day. She's the title character. At the end of the day it doesn't change the fact that I think, so far, he affects very little in the plot and that he's a jerk to pretty much everyone except Mikuru.
Edit:
I think your confusing yourself. I never removed Kyon from the equation. The show pushes him to be the protagonist but all he does is observe, for the most part, and complain about Haruhi. Blame the writing staff for pushing Kyon as we could've just as easily followed any number of characters in this show.
Admiral Woofington
Member
But Kyon does affect the outcome. His role is to question the bullshit when nobody else does, and act against Haruhi when it's necessary. His importance is that he's the only one Haruhi listens to outright. We're going around in circles at this point, I genuinely don't know what you've been watching if you don't realize this is his story and his effect to the plot is secondary to nobody. Haruhi affects the world, he deals with it as the 'leader' of the followers, outside of the episodes dealing with the group as a whole, such as the island episode where it's more about him teaming up with the titular character to do shit. Haruhi is the plot device, that does not mean it's her story. She's the leader of the group and says "today we're doing this bullshit follow me" that doesn't make her the most important character to this story the show is telling. That makes her important to the universe the world is set in, not the story.
I think this is my last contribution to the discussion though, we don't seem to understand what you're trying to say and it seems everybody is in agreement that it's obvious enough what his role and importance is. The only thing we could do from here is list the reasons he progressed the plot, but that'd be spoilers and you haven't finished the show nor the movie for that matter.
I think this is my last contribution to the discussion though, we don't seem to understand what you're trying to say and it seems everybody is in agreement that it's obvious enough what his role and importance is. The only thing we could do from here is list the reasons he progressed the plot, but that'd be spoilers and you haven't finished the show nor the movie for that matter.
Well, I don't know if agreeing to disagree matters(how do you disagree to disagree?), but this isn't really an opinion thing. Kyon is demonstrably the protagonist of the story, it's fact.
This is like saying Harry Potter is about Dumbledore, or LOTR is about Gandalf, or any other show where someone materially affects the world over the heads of the actual protagonist.
Or rather about Sauron because he's the title character.
Admiral Woofington
Member
To be even more recent, that's like saying Bilbo Baggins isn't the protagonist of the Hobbit because he's following everybody else and their journey and he's just part of the crew. Sounds to me like you want the story to be about something else, dislike Kyon, and somehow you're subconsciously lowering his importance because you like everybody else more and you're therefore convincing yourself he's not important but an asshole. Which is fine, but it really discussing his importance to this story is not an opinion.
Importance to the show:
1. Kyon
2. Haruhi
3-5. Everybody else.
Importance to the universe:
1. Haruhi.
2-4. Everybody else in the crew and those with some quirk to them.
5. Kyon.
Importance to the show:
1. Kyon
2. Haruhi
3-5. Everybody else.
Importance to the universe:
1. Haruhi.
2-4. Everybody else in the crew and those with some quirk to them.
5. Kyon.
PshycoNinja
Member
But Harry actually does shit.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
This is dumb. New topic pls
So you're saying PshycoNinja is actually Peter Jackson?
PshycoNinja
Member
I can just as easily say that most just have a blind love for Kyon and make him out to be more important then he actually is.
You could, but that would be a stupid comment which indicates you're only interested in confirmation bias rather than critical analysis.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Ok I'm done. Agreed, new topic.
god damn
his last visit here had him claiming there was no love for brown elves in his heart.
dead to me
did we exile him? D:
He knows how to strike where it hurts. Masterclass trolling continues.
Let me see kill it with fire and yea don't hold your breath.
Very unlikely.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
I'm already experiencing stomach problems from PPGZ, I don't want more problems.
PshycoNinja
Member
I agree. Let's move on.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
And KirbYayoi/KirbYuuYuu saves the day!
Admiral Woofington
Member
I didn't even bother with Watamote based on what everybody told me about it and what I saw from video reviews and discussions. I cringe with awkward shit. Watamote sounds like the Dinner with Schmucks of anime.
I would love to, but the first season isn't getting enough success its seem.
Appropriate, I guess.
Sometimes the universe is a just place after all.
it's not it's fault it's not popular
It's funny until something hits close to home. Seemed like there was a bit of a divide with some older viewers that could take it at face value vs younger people who saw themselves in that show.
This is when I finally knew the pain!
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