If you made a thread on that then I'd defend LKS to the death like all these lovely people in here are doing with W101, haha.
There's no accounting for taste.
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LTTP: The Wonderful 101 - This utterly incredible game... isn't very good
- Thread starter Griss
- Start date
If you made a thread on that then I'd defend LKS to the death like all these lovely people in here are doing with W101, haha.
There's no accounting for taste.
Waylon Drums
Member
I didn't really like it either. It just wasn't as good as people said it was...
I'm right there with ya. That game is amazing. The personality transcends any flaws.
It doesn't take hours and hours to learn the mechanics though and it certainly doesn't take hours upon hours to read what's going on. You also don't have all the skills and blocks unlocked once you start the game so it doesn't jsut drop everything on you at all.
I mostly got silvers and golds on my first playthrough on normal and while I do love character action games I don't consider myself crazy good at them. Some of the boss fights took me a while before I understood how the patterns look and how I am supposed to counter the attacks and I did end up with two or three consolidation medals as a result but I think that the game is very fair overall. If you want to get really good and do well on the higher difficulties then yes, you have to learn the intricacies of the systems but on the normal difficulty? Not at all. The basic stuff is all you need.
Bad design is just about the opposite of what I'd describe W101 with.
Edit: Except the shooter parts. Fuck those, they're terrible.
grandwizard
Member
Game is amazing imo, and I think it is probably the 2nd best Platinum game after Bayonetta. It's also the hardest to get into, there is literally nothing out there that plays like W101. And once you wrap your head around it and learn the controls, it clicks and you realize just how many options the game gives you at all times and the sort of 'resource management' gameplay that it adds to the character action genre. Your 100 guys aren't just there for show.
It's a damn shame it has a high barrier to entry that keeps a lot of people away, because it is something special.
It's a damn shame it has a high barrier to entry that keeps a lot of people away, because it is something special.
Really good review so far.
I really like where he talks about unlocking all the various moves, both the unite morphs as well as the combo moves like the stinger and he says 'The small sense of progression this provides isn't worth the amount of restriction it places on the player in their first play through.' Exactly how I'm feeling.
Prevolition
Member
To each his own, but I suggest practicing more. A real mediocre game is always mediocre, this game gets better and better the more skilled you become.
Ugh I honestly hated those. Way to make me lose all hype for a boss.
Like why does this game seem to just ignore its battle system so much? And for fucking boss battles of all things? I wouldn't mind it if the Punch-Out sections were just minibosses, but no they're actual bosses.
Compare that to say Metal Gear Rising, where every boss is essentially a test to see how much you've improved at the game's mechanics. It just seems weird to me.
AdmiralMikey
Member
I agree with everything this OP says. The Wonderful 101 was a game I was prepared to love from the very first trailer, and ended up despising almost every moment of actually playing it. Some people have found a way to enjoy a broken game. I am not one of those people.
Coffee Dog
Banned
haha, mind expounding upon this?
Buddha Beam
Banned
I didn't like it either, OP. I wanted to, but the style of gameplay has never been up my alley anyway. The problem with telling you to "get better" at it, is that the gameplay itself is a chaotic, un-fun mess. If there were enough redeeming factors to the gameplay, I would have been able to keep going. But it's just a throughly frustrating, unclear experience.
I don't know why I'm going to buy Bayonetta 2 next month. Same complaints apply to that.
I don't know why I'm going to buy Bayonetta 2 next month. Same complaints apply to that.
I appreciate that you actually gave time to the game and made a long and detailed write-up of your opinion on the game's flaws.
However I just feel like your primary complain falls flat to me. The game color codes everything for you, your current leader is always surrounded by a bright circle, so it's really hard to miss. The game punishes you by getting hit in the way of all your characters getting spread around, so it emphasizes defense as well as offense.
I never really had a problem with telling what was going in the game, and I played the entire thing with Off-TV screen. Those (admittedly annoying) sections where you have to watch both screens at the same time, I had to do this with an even tinier screen on the bottom left of the gamepad screen, but I didn't really have any issue telling what was happening, one just simple has to pay attention.
I also disagree with the battery mechanic complains, I think it actually complements the battle system really well, as it adds a layer of resource management that shines better in the higher difficulties.
That said I do agree with the mini game complains, I really didn't have much fun with any of them except the glorious
and that one high-speed section on Operation 2. I like that they diversify the game, and add some nice pace to it, but I don't think they are all that really well made, it's specially annoying that they are taken into account for your rankings.
I also agree somewhat with the story, I love how silly and over the top the whole thing is, and how it doesn't take itself too seriously, but I do agree with how some of the portrayals of the characters got annoying, like Wonder Pink, and Wonder Green (and by extension, Blue's interactions with Green)
That said I still really love the game, it's my favorite game of the past year and possibly one of my top 10 games ever, I can understand why the game is so divisive, but I just don't really think some of the criticism the game gets regarding it's gameplay are fair, but different strokes for different folks, I guess.
However I just feel like your primary complain falls flat to me. The game color codes everything for you, your current leader is always surrounded by a bright circle, so it's really hard to miss. The game punishes you by getting hit in the way of all your characters getting spread around, so it emphasizes defense as well as offense.
I never really had a problem with telling what was going in the game, and I played the entire thing with Off-TV screen. Those (admittedly annoying) sections where you have to watch both screens at the same time, I had to do this with an even tinier screen on the bottom left of the gamepad screen, but I didn't really have any issue telling what was happening, one just simple has to pay attention.
I also disagree with the battery mechanic complains, I think it actually complements the battle system really well, as it adds a layer of resource management that shines better in the higher difficulties.
That said I do agree with the mini game complains, I really didn't have much fun with any of them except the glorious
Punch-Out fight
I also agree somewhat with the story, I love how silly and over the top the whole thing is, and how it doesn't take itself too seriously, but I do agree with how some of the portrayals of the characters got annoying, like Wonder Pink, and Wonder Green (and by extension, Blue's interactions with Green)
That said I still really love the game, it's my favorite game of the past year and possibly one of my top 10 games ever, I can understand why the game is so divisive, but I just don't really think some of the criticism the game gets regarding it's gameplay are fair, but different strokes for different folks, I guess.
That's how I feel. I fully recognize that the game does not explain itself well, and the learning curve is immense, but once you do get it... lawdy. It's such a blast.
crabhammer
Member
Maybe, just maybe, the game isn't broken and you just haven't grasped the mechanics yet.
I would like to hear what you think is broken though.
To go back to this review, there's a great part at 7:25 where he says:
"There's been a lot of attention to detail here to ensure that a perceptive player has enough information to make an appropriate decision at any given time."
While he is saying this the video on the screen is completely unreadable to me. Where the player is, where the enemies are, what is going on - he's saying one thing while the screen itself is completely backing my points.
When he says "It is a bit much to pick up on such signs immediately once they start a battle..." I feel like that's the understatement of the century. How you'd know that the circle that appears with an enemy is the wondershape required to steal their weapon is just beyond me.
Anyway, spoilers are starting in the vid so I'll leave it for now.
So I'm not the only one who encountered this glitch? I tried to finish this boss for about two hours, but there is always one guy who doesn't want in. Stopped playing at that point and now have too many other games in the pipeline.
Sorry W101, I suppose you'll get your chance another day.
I had that glitch too, the game got patched, but I don't know if that was one of the glitches it fixed. either I way I remembering getting around it by just extending the remaining dude/dudette to the opposite direction, and then just pushing them towards the eye again.
omegashockwave
Member
I'm on operation 4 in the game, and I'm absolutely loving so far. I think the fighting mechanics are flawless albeit fairly punishing. Also the story and style is amazing. That said, I can see why it's not for everyone. And, ya you're right, the platforming parts suck.
I pick weapons based on enemy color, and it works fine for me. There are a lot of subtle things going on in the game, and only through multiple plays will you begin to grasp them all. And please make sure you're using the grouping/sprint button, once my eyes got acclimated to the game, it was pretty easy to keep track of the leader, and I play only on OFF-TV.
Platinum tries to be a jack-of-all-trades while somehow being a master of a few. I remember getting a real kick out of the shmup section of Bayonetta but after so many Platinum games the winking retro game homages-turned-minigames starts to wear a little thin. When they're too much and too often they make me long for the regular gameplay I bought the game for in the first place.
I do really love Punch-Out!! though.
yiepekaiyei
Banned
It's funny how defensive people are about this game. "Don't ever say something negative about my favorite game! Instead, force yourself into liking it and get better at it, even if you're not enjoying the process."
What? pfff..
Well, I agree with OP 100%.
Good to know that I'll be able to properly finish the boss fight once I return to the game at least.
I finished the game recently as well, though I don't agree with everything you said, but I do agree that it is a severely flawed game.
On my first playthrough, in normal difficulty, I got mostly Gold and Platinum with some Silver trophies.
I didn't like most of the genre switches and I agree that it is hard to perceive the depth.
The game is filled with glitches, this is one:
And in that same level, I couldn't progress at all. The statue I got disappeared and I couldn't do anything about it.
At times Wonder Build would just be finicky and not work properly. I couldn't get people in the Wonder Toilet.
The combat is ace and mechanics are ace, but everything around it is very flawed.
And then the loading screens...lol...I feel truly sorry for those who decided to replay this game and go for Pure Platinum.
On my first playthrough, in normal difficulty, I got mostly Gold and Platinum with some Silver trophies.
I didn't like most of the genre switches and I agree that it is hard to perceive the depth.
The game is filled with glitches, this is one:
And in that same level, I couldn't progress at all. The statue I got disappeared and I couldn't do anything about it.
At times Wonder Build would just be finicky and not work properly. I couldn't get people in the Wonder Toilet.
The combat is ace and mechanics are ace, but everything around it is very flawed.
And then the loading screens...lol...I feel truly sorry for those who decided to replay this game and go for Pure Platinum.
You need to have 100 people and then you will have to keep trying to get 100 people in it. The last person will sometimes be an idiot and not go in properly.
Man, I wish it were that simple, but it's just too much for me as well. I feel exactly the same as the OP.
I've had little trouble adapting to and playing through many notoriously difficult games but the type of challenge here is not fun to learn. In the best "difficult" games you want to keep pushing forward and learning the game but here it just feels frustrating and rage inducing. Getting good requires a ton of patience and the way it punishes you is not fun. I'm just not compatible with this type of challenge, I guess. Other Platinum games are my kind of challenge but not this one.
I love aspects of the game but ultimately hate it.
At the very least, if the frame-rate weren't so damn bad it might be more manageable, but the crazier the situation the slower it gets and that makes it way harder to keep track of everything. A smooth 60 fps and a higher resolution would make it a lot easier to read the action.
If they simply eliminated the fact that your guys are scattered upon taking a hit I think it would be infinitely more fun to learn.
I've loved just about everything else Platinum has put out but W101 is just not for me. It's the one game they've made that I actively dislike most of the time.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
I've yet to finish 101 but I have the same issues with the OP. Visibility is horrible and the general sense of knowing what is going on a basic level is really lacking.
PS I finished the original DMC 3 and MGS rising on hard.
PS I finished the original DMC 3 and MGS rising on hard.
This so much.
OP, may I recommend you play on the easy setting the first play through. I've noticed that with most, if not all, PlatinumGames the first play through is a lot like a tutorial. It gives you a chance to experiment with different play styles and discover what stradegy works best in a particular situation.
omegashockwave
Member
That's not a bug. You need to have 100 in your party. Any less and nothing happens. If you have less you have to hit the other head to make him vomit more people out. I can see why you didn't know that since I don't think the game ever tells you that. I had to look that part up to get passed it.
That video sums up the game perfectly.
I think it's an alright game, it's probably much more fun to play the second time when you have most of the stuff figured out but by the end of the game I didn't want to play more of it. OP has a lot of valid points, shouldn't need to a beat a game to truly enjoy it.
I think it's an alright game, it's probably much more fun to play the second time when you have most of the stuff figured out but by the end of the game I didn't want to play more of it. OP has a lot of valid points, shouldn't need to a beat a game to truly enjoy it.
Coffee Dog
Banned
I'm sure it would be. Any game would be easier to learn if you took out the primary motivator for not getting hit.
Goldenmoney
Member
Um, this was literally in the OP: "There's only one problem: The game is fucking terrible."
So yea, you're going to have some defensive posts. If the OP had said it's a deeply flawed game rather than it's fucking terrible, we wouldn't have as many reactionary posts.
It is a glitch though, sometimes only 99 people will go in, but the last one will refuse to enter. Like I said though, its not that hard to go around.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Pretty sure he was taking the piss out of people who defend hardcore games that require you to play it for tens of hours before it all becomes clear or opens up and becomes enjoyable.
I haven't played the game, but the OP's comments do tally with quite a few things I've read about the game doing a very bad job of explaining its systems. Kind of insulting that so many people are replying by simply saying "you've got to get better at it".
I'm not sure about that.
I loved Viewtiful Joe, Bayonetta and MGS: Rising from the start. Yes you get better at all of them and they have depth, but they're good from the start, and playing them isn't just some tutorial.
I disliked Okami, MadWorld and Vanquish pretty quickly, and never got into any of them (though I only made a real effort with Okami). I'm not willing to not enjoy myself for hours just for some promised future fun. Made that mistake with FF13 and other games - it's never worth it.
After all, sometimes you just don't like a game, and that's all there is to it.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
I'd give the game a 9.5 out of 10.
It has some issues(the non-core gameplay segments are hit and miss, some are "just there" and don't play terribly but aren't fun) but the core gameplay is some of the best I have ever played(the fighting engine is so, so deep and satisfying) and the game has a decent story and very good voiceacting.
I have yet to play a Bayonetta yet but from seeing what that game entails, it's still going to be an uphill battle to top this game for me.
I'm finally at the point where I don't look forward to playing The Wonderful 101 every day and it took me an absurd amount of hours(beating every difficulty and then some) to get there.
This is a game I will remember and replay 10 years from now.
It has some issues(the non-core gameplay segments are hit and miss, some are "just there" and don't play terribly but aren't fun) but the core gameplay is some of the best I have ever played(the fighting engine is so, so deep and satisfying) and the game has a decent story and very good voiceacting.
I have yet to play a Bayonetta yet but from seeing what that game entails, it's still going to be an uphill battle to top this game for me.
I'm finally at the point where I don't look forward to playing The Wonderful 101 every day and it took me an absurd amount of hours(beating every difficulty and then some) to get there.
This is a game I will remember and replay 10 years from now.
Coffee Dog
Banned
It's not insulting if that's the reality of the situation. Some games require the player to pay a little bit more attention or invest a little more time than others do. And sometimes people don't have the patience for that and want something that's more instantly gratifying. There's nothing insulting about that, it's just the game isn't to that person's tastes.
It's not a glitch though, you walk towards the toilet and the last guy goes through. the 100 people you need for certain toilets includes you, same as using unite build during bosses. You have to approach the target.
And because you don't like a game does not make it "fucking awful" OP.
Riposte
Member
To me, this reads like this:
-Posts that disagree with me are defensive.
-The people who have a better understanding of a game I gave up on are wrong.
omegashockwave
Member
Ya part when the last person won't go in is weird too. I worked around that by moving around both sticks to move the leader in. I wasn't talking about that though, I was talking about if you try with less than 100 party members.
And that front point is the only point that matters, which is why I don't understand the platforming complaints. It doesn't matter if the other 99 members fall off or get hit as the highlighted point is the only thing that matters.
It just got to the point where I was dashing 100% of the time.
If I remember correctly, you cannot move once you initiate the unite morph into the eye at the boss battle, unlike with the toilets.
No I definitely had 100 guys with me. Can't count how often I just stood there and waited until the hydra barfed my members out. Last guy just stands in front of the eye like an idiot.
I gave my reasons in the OP. If you haven't read it, do so. If you have, you know my problems with it.
Always be dashing!
You totally can. I remember because It took me a while to figure it out too. Now I get it every time.
Magnet_Man
Member
The main issue is that vast majority of the criticisms stated in the OP are not objective problems with the game itself but rather the OP's problems adapting. I'm terrible at Street Fighter and cannot stand playing it or other 2D fighters, but that doesn't mean they are bad games for that.
Criticism about the camera in small spaces, alternate play modes disrupting the gameflow and making players learn an entirely new control scheme for a 2 minute segment that honestly adds nothing to the game other than to be a "ooh, I get the reference" moment, and the various glitches are legitimate problems with the game. The player blaming the game because they wasted all their resource energy on excessive and unnecessary actions for example, is not.