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[Antiwhippy]

I seriously could care less about the 3D part of the 3DS.

In fact I wish that they would sacrifice the 3D for a higher res screen.

 

[SoulUnison]

I seriously could care less about the 3D part of the 3DS.

In fact I wish that they would sacrifice the 3D for a higher res screen.

Well I wish they would sacrifice you to Trinitus, Lord of the Third Dimension. So there.

*pouty face*

Spoiler

3D is really cool and I like and and don't fuck this up for me, guys.

 

[Foffy]

Let's be honest here, the models aren't really all that detailed even by 3DS standards. They're fairly mediocre on poly count and utilize very flat cel shading with little to no detail in the textures. And that's with the game cheating by never having to render many characters simultaneously, nor a complex environment around them during battles.

Really can't stand the shading to it. Makes it look like an upscaled DS game, which fits with the trope of Game Freak being a generation behind in development. .

 

[pikablu]

If you got a problem with framerate play the first robopon sun for gbc.

 

[RandyBobandy]

Fair play to them, tbh. They can do the absolute bare minimum and it won't matter at all because it will sell millions anyway

And any negativity will be erased by the following game with people having hopes they might've fixed their shit

They remind me of Yukes

 

[Mecha]

I would be surprised if Yokai Watch is as big as it is in 2+ years.
It still has yet to prove if it can withstand the Level 5 curse!

There isn't a Level 5 "curse", you can count on one hand how many Japanese children video game franchises have lasted over the years. People seem to expect Level 5 to create lasting hits with their kids franchises and if they don't they somehow failed, that's ridiculous. There have been countless attempts to make children's video game series, and barely any become as popular as Level 5's have. I know the marketing experts of NeoGaf have strategies Level 5 have never thought of before so their series can become long lasting, but it isn't realistic.

 

[JoeM86]

We all know, that GameFreak loves to punish everybody for something, that went wrong somewhere. Just like the later release date for OR/AS in EU, because some people got Pokemon X and Y early. It's beyond stupid and there are other ways to stop that.

Spoiler

Other companies are suing those shops with a 50.000€ fee and it works.

Game Freak doesn't decide release dates in each region. They also don't decide the events for each region.

 

[strata8]

I was considering making a thread for this a week or so ago, but didn't think it was worth it.

Pokémon's art seems a little bit - I dunno - bland?

I mean, it was fair game during the GB and GBA era where hardware limitations forced a certain kind of art style.

But then we start moving into more powerful systems like the DS. An opportunity to add some variety to that strict tile-based overworld, right?

Hold on, what's this?

Is that the exact same thing, just in 2.5D?

Maybe with the 3DS...

Of course not. Because what do you expect by this point?

With games like Rayman and Rune Factory pushing the boundaries of 2D with gorgeous hand-painted art, it kills me to see Game Freak - for the most part - doing the same thing artistically that they were doing 15 years ago, and using an added dimension (or half) as an excuse for it.

 

[thelastcrusader]

I was considering making a thread for this a week or so ago, but didn't think it was worth it.

Pokémon's art seems a little bit - I dunno - bland?

I mean, it was fair game during the GB and GBA era where hardware limitations forced a certain kind of art style.

But then we start moving into more powerful systems like the DS. An opportunity to add some variety to that strict tile-based overworld, right?

Hold on, what's this?

Is that the exact same thing, just in 2.5D?

Maybe with the 3DS...

Of course not. Because what do you expect by this point?

With games like Rayman and Rune Factory pushing the boundaries of 2D with gorgeous hand-painted art, it kills me to see Game Freak - for the most part - doing the same thing artistically that they were doing 15 years ago, and using an added dimension (or half) as an excuse for it.

But weren't all of those games amazing at the time? Day 1.

 

[SoulUnison]

But weren't all of those games amazing at the time? Day 1.

Maybe up to Ruby/Sapphire.

The DS games felt really "safe" and XY was a jump forward for the battle presentation but nothing about it is particularly impressive, which is what makes its noticeably poor performance so baffling and frustrating.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

If I can put out the same basic gameplay w/minor graphical improvements for 15 years and make that much money, call me "incompetent"

Bought every one tho

 

[Foshy]

I was considering making a thread for this a week or so ago, but didn't think it was worth it.

Pokémon's art seems a little bit - I dunno - bland?

I mean, it was fair game during the GB and GBA era where hardware limitations forced a certain kind of art style.
But then we start moving into more powerful systems like the DS. An opportunity to add some variety to that strict tile-based overworld, right?With games like Rayman and Rune Factory pushing the boundaries of 2D with gorgeous hand-painted art, it kills me to see Game Freak - for the most part - doing the same thing artistically that they were doing 15 years ago, and using an added dimension (or half) as an excuse for it.

X/Y really is between the ugliest 3DS games around in my opinion. The 3D models in fights look good, yeah, but the overworld...not only from a technical perspective, the art-style is just off. It feels like nothing fits together.

i mean, feel free to disagree, but i'm not sure what they were going for.

 

[LiK]

Doesn't Gamefreak run a skeleton crew? Low budget and all?

Additionally, they were using sprites up until the DS, which is a bit crazy when you think about it.

Is this true? With all the money they make, you'd think they have better resources.

 

[LeleSocho]

I've done 15 "adventures" in the demo completely in 2D and haven't gotten a single noticeable drop in framerate.

Then you are simply blind because neither your game nor your hardware is different than everyone else's and the game drops frames in battles well under 25fps.
Don't take it badly but the fact that you can't see it means little to nothing.

 

[wmlk]

I was considering making a thread for this a week or so ago, but didn't think it was worth it.

Pokémon's art seems a little bit - I dunno - bland?

I mean, it was fair game during the GB and GBA era where hardware limitations forced a certain kind of art style.

But then we start moving into more powerful systems like the DS. An opportunity to add some variety to that strict tile-based overworld, right?

Hold on, what's this?

Is that the exact same thing, just in 2.5D?

Maybe with the 3DS...

Of course not. Because what do you expect by this point?

With games like Rayman and Rune Factory pushing the boundaries of 2D with gorgeous hand-painted art, it kills me to see Game Freak - for the most part - doing the same thing artistically that they were doing 15 years ago, and using an added dimension (or half) as an excuse for it.

HECK no. I wouldn't change that style at all.

Pokémon Emerald's spritework still holds well today. It even runs in 60 fps.

You're leaving BW2 out entirely. That clash of 2D and 3D was something really unique.

This gives the series its identity. There are some things that you simply don't change because of its established roots.

The problem with XY was that there was a departure from that view, and the tile-based structure became redundant. You see the same problem with ORAS now with it being too close to RSE's map layout. But the stuff in the past was just fine and it's part of Pokémon's charm.

 

[Akai__]

Game Freak doesn't decide release dates in each region. They also don't decide the events for each region.

It's their game, so they are responsible. I really don't care, who I have to blame.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

I've done 15 "adventures" in the demo completely in 2D and haven't gotten a single noticeable drop in framerate.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. I've seen it as well, and 3D is horrendous.

All that said, I don't really care. I like Pokemon's style and gameplay, and the technical limitations are barely a thing to me. I don't think Game Freak is incompetent, they probably just don't have the budget or manpower. What they put out in spite of that is really impressive.

That said, I won't be buying ORAS because I don't have time for another timesink Pokemon game right now, not because I wouldn't love to play it.

 

[Molemitts]

That's basically the reason I'm skipping out on OR/AS. That and GameFreak doing the "one step forward, two steps back" in terms of features.

I pretty much had to force myself to finish X/Y since I had completed the previous games in the series (and had fun doing so). X/Y felt empty to me.

Yep. "One step forwards and two steps back", really sums up Game Freaks design philosophy.

But weren't all of those games amazing at the time? Day 1.

The only "amazing" Pokemon games, in my opinion, are HG/SS and Black and White. Most the other ones don't stand out for me. Which is why I think it's time for a change.

X/Y really is between the ugliest 3DS games around in my opinion. The 3D models in fights look good, yeah, but the overworld...not only from a technical perspective, the art-style is just off. It feels like nothing fits together.

[snip]

i mean, feel free to disagree, but i'm not sure what they were going for.

Agreed, the artstyle seems like they didn't really have a focus. Probably because they didn't drop the tile based movement, everything looks blocky.

 

[kraspkibble]

I really don't like the style they've gone with for X/Y and OR/AS.

I'd prefer it if they kept it like HG/SS style with 3D at all times.

 

[wmlk]

I just feel like "excuse" is the worst way to criticize something. It basically negates all freedom in game design if you describe something as an excuse.

 

[Ol No Bones]

Yeah.

 

[Kid Ska]

They just don't need to do anything other than the bare minimum. Hell, I'm surprised at the leaps they've taken into 3D space.

 

[bennywhatever]

I found X/Y to be really good games and never really noticed a frame rate drop that impacted the gameplay. I'm pretty sure OP is in the minority - most people play pokemon for gameplay, not graphics.

 

[SerTapTap]

They should have just straight-up disabled 3D, and performance could be better, but I really can't get too worked up about it. I don't agree that XY are "ugly by 3DS" standards either. Yoshi's New Island, now that is an unattractive game (except for anything purely 2D--gee, I wonder why Yoshi's' artstyle might lend itself to 2D?). I think Pokemon made the 3D transition fairly well considering they have a completely insane number of models to make and animate, and the art style, love it or hate it, is a pretty good translation of the Ruby/Sapphire style into proper 3D this time around.

 

[Tetranet]

I was considering making a thread for this a week or so ago, but didn't think it was worth it.

Pokémon's art seems a little bit - I dunno - bland?

I mean, it was fair game during the GB and GBA era where hardware limitations forced a certain kind of art style.

But then we start moving into more powerful systems like the DS. An opportunity to add some variety to that strict tile-based overworld, right?

Hold on, what's this?

Is that the exact same thing, just in 2.5D?

Maybe with the 3DS...

Of course not. Because what do you expect by this point?

With games like Rayman and Rune Factory pushing the boundaries of 2D with gorgeous hand-painted art, it kills me to see Game Freak - for the most part - doing the same thing artistically that they were doing 15 years ago, and using an added dimension (or half) as an excuse for it.

As far as I'm concerned those are amazing. It isn't doing the "same thing", it's doing Pokemon, all this is part of what makes Pokemon games. How would it be if the next game came out with Uncharted-style graphics? From what I've seen, they've done a pretty good job stylistically adapting to the new capabilities of the hardware, without sacrificing their established style. Now if only performance was better.

A higher framerate would be nice, but it doesn't actually improve the gameplay the way it does in a platformer or action game. The framerate in 3D can make the game pretty unplayable but 3D isn't needed in Pokemon, nor does it improve the gameplay like it does with a platformer.

Is it about improving gameplay really? So a smoother game isn't a more enjoyable experience overall? Even if framerate issues are IRRELEVANT to the mechanical portion of the game, they are still a massively detrimental factor for a lot of people.

I'm pretty sure OP is in the minority - most people play pokemon for gameplay, not graphics.

Huh? What? So you're claiming that for most people all that work in the designs and the art style is inconsequential and irrelevant to the experience? Graphics, the entire visual department, are paramount in Pokemon. Where would Pokemon be without the colorful creatures themselves, so expertly designed from day 1 by Sugimori & Game Freak in general? It's completely inane to suggest that Pokemon graphics have nothing to do with their success.

 

[Hubbl3]

As far as I'm concerned those are amazing. It isn't doing the "same thing", it's doing Pokemon, all this is part of what makes Pokemon games.

I wish Square Enix would've understood that when it comes to their mainline Final Fantasy games.

 

[Professor Beef]

Well I wish they would sacrifice you to Trinitus, Lord of the Third Dimension. So there.

*pouty face*

Spoiler

3D is really cool and I like and and don't fuck this up for me, guys.

Would it help if I told that I haven't had 3d on since I got my system last year and tell Nintendo in those CN surveys to remove it?

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

Really can't stand the shading to it. Makes it look like an upscaled DS game, which fits with the trope of Game Freak being a generation behind in development. .

LOL, seriously show me ANY DS game that has anything approaching this. Saying this looks like an upscaled DS game is a joke. You guys can complain about the overworld, because that's bullshit, but the in battle models are fairly high polygon compared to anything else on the system and let's not get into when we do horde battles or 2v2 matches

 

[Maintenance]

LOL, seriously show me ANY DS game that has anything approaching this. Saying this looks like an upscaled DS game is a joke. You guys can complain about the overworld, because that's bullshit, but the in battle models are fairly high polygon compared to anything else on the system and let's not get into when we do horde battles or 2v2 matches

What? Kid Icarus Uprising, Snake Eater 3D (this one even has a shitty framerate like X/Y/ORAS), Kindgom Hearts 3D all look better than the battle models.

I'm not going to be like OP and say that they are incompetent, but they just don't care about performance, it will sell like hotcakes anyway.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

Well, I would think that animating movesets for 700+ Pokemon would take a lot of work and resources.

Also I don't understand the comparisons to the graphics of other 3DS games. They're different games with different features.

 

[Illucio]

After playing the Pokémon ORAS demo, I have decided not to buy the game.

It runs at like 15 fps and you can't play in 3D for most part of the game. Pokémon XY suffered the same fate one year ago, why haven't they sorted all these performance problems out? It's embarrassing.

3DS is capable of running Monster Hunter and Youkai Watch in 3D, at almost 60fps.

Pokémon is a multi million franchise, and Game Freak should treat it as one.

1. It's a demo, the actual game will run much better when it's release.
2. You can't play in 3D in most parts of the game because of hardware limitations rather then developer incompetence. (I believe this is more to do with that the game is rendering more of the world's areas at once, rather then just one contained area at a time like Monster Hunter.)
3. Frraaaaame raaate loooossst? (Played the demo 10 times and have no experienced this yet. Anywhos, there is a New 3DS coming out stateside soon, and out in Japan and Australia now, and the better hardware will run games even more smoothly. So... Yeah.)

So... Your argument is Nintendo's incompetence of not having a stronger handheld system? (In which they trying to remedy with the release of the New 3DS.)

 

[Maintenance]

1. It's a demo, the actual game will run much better when it's release.

If I got one dollar for each time I heard this excuse, and I'm not even talking about GameFreak or Pokemon only, I hear this everywhere.

Spolier alert: It almost never gets better.

 

[SummitAve]

I have no idea. Pokemon is the top most series in need of a complete and total shake up. Game Freak makes the changes in an annualized Madden game seem impressive.

 

[Glitchesarecool]

1. It's a demo, the actual game will run much better when it's release.

It's not like they have an infinite amount of time to fix the problem, assuming they can even identify what the issue is. It's a month away.

3. Frraaaaame raaate loooossst? (Played the demo 10 times and have no experienced this yet. Anywhos, there is a New 3DS coming out stateside soon, and out in Japan and Australia now, and the better hardware will run games even more smoothly. So... Yeah.)

Soon(TM). I've only seen it'll be out some point at 2015. Regardless, they're not making the game for the N3DS, they're making it for the 3DS.

 

[JoeM86]

What? Kid Icarus Uprising, Snake Eater 3D (this one even has a shitty framerate like X/Y/ORAS), Kindgom Hearts 3D all look better than the battle models.

I'm not going to be like OP and say that they are incompetent, but they just don't care about performance, it will sell like hotcakes anyway.

The models in those games are nowhere near as detailed as these ones.

Seriously, you're mistaking the artwork aesthetic they've adopted to be low poly.

 

[Jarmel]

Good lord, 15? Really?

 

[JoeM86]

Good lord, 15? Really?

No. It's hyperbole. It's never that bad.

 

[Aaronrules380]

Aside from this being hugely exaggerated, I don't care that much in this case because honestly, it doesn't affect gameplay at all. It's one thing to have bad frame rate in a game like smash where timing is crucial and it has a huge effect on how the game plays. But Pokemon has no major timing based gameplay elements (I guess a few minigames, but fps tends to only be bad in battles with 3d on anyways) so it doesn't affect the core gameplay at all. Also, personally think pokemon x and y looked great animated without 3d on. That said, Gamefreak has never been the most technically competent developer, but that's nothing new and they're still way better than they were in red and blue (And those were improvements over the original japanese red and green in the first place)

 

[nephilimdj]

LOL, seriously show me ANY DS game that has anything approaching this. Saying this looks like an upscaled DS game is a joke. You guys can complain about the overworld, because that's bullshit, but the in battle models are fairly high polygon compared to anything else on the system and let's not get into when we do horde battles or 2v2 matches

Naruto probably is the most impressive 3d game on DS

I think Pokemon does need some engine wizardry

 

[QueenOfThorns]

I don't know if they're incompetent, but they're certainly lazy. Taking away features every game instead of adding them is some sims bullshit. I don't know why they work so hard to have these cool features (pokemon following you, trainer customization, clothes shops) just to take them away for the next game. These should not be a one game only feature to make each game distinct.

If "You can change your outfits in this game" is the best thing they can do to make a region unique then maybe they are incompetent.

Definitely skipping out on the Ruby/Sapphire remakes. I thought XY were a nice step forward...but as Gamefreak always does they stop there and probably won't do anything drastically new for generations. I still don't like how zoomed out the camera is. The 3D was nice, a transition the series needed to make, but now it's time to take away the tile based movement. It's 2014 and I'm sure they could find something else to determine random pokemon battles.

Also, this applies to a lot of games from Nintendo that aren't Mario, but is anyone else really tired of the music in Pokemon games? I'd really like a lot more orchestrated tracks, or at least the electronic style XY had at times. The awful midi sound they started using since the GBA games and hasn't changed that much since really annoys me. I'm not even going to play the remakes because I know the second I hear those fake horns I'll kill myself.

 

[udivision]

I was considering making a thread for this a week or so ago, but didn't think it was worth it.

Pokémon's art seems a little bit - I dunno - bland?

I mean, it was fair game during the GB and GBA era where hardware limitations forced a certain kind of art style.

But then we start moving into more powerful systems like the DS. An opportunity to add some variety to that strict tile-based overworld, right?

Hold on, what's this?

Is that the exact same thing, just in 2.5D?

Maybe with the 3DS...

Of course not. Because what do you expect by this point?

With games like Rayman and Rune Factory pushing the boundaries of 2D with gorgeous hand-painted art, it kills me to see Game Freak - for the most part - doing the same thing artistically that they were doing 15 years ago, and using an added dimension (or half) as an excuse for it.

that's the truth, but there's nothing that's gonna change it.

 

[wmlk]

that's the truth, but there's nothing that's gonna change it.

What's the truth? That the visual identity is an "excuse"?

 

[WrenchNinja]

No. It's hyperbole. It's never that bad.

Wow, that's exactly what I think whenever you say the GBA 3DS games run poorly.

 

[Jotamide]

X/Y really is between the ugliest 3DS games around in my opinion. The 3D models in fights look good, yeah, but the overworld...not only from a technical perspective, the art-style is just off. It feels like nothing fits together.

*Imgaes*

i mean, feel free to disagree, but i'm not sure what they were going for.

At this point I can see those screens randomly somewhere else and I'd still guess that they belong in a Pokemon games. While their tech is shit, artstyle-wise Pokemon games feel great.

 

[EMT0]

My biggest complaint with the transition from the GBA games to the DS and 3DS games is that the colors are a lot less saturated; the overworld just looks more drab, even though I actually think the DS games were a good balance in the end. But XY just looked bad artistically to me(again, overworld, pokemon models were fine, although I hated the trainer design and the battle terrain), and seemed to lose even more saturation in the process. Combine that with the 3DS low-res screen and the result is a really poor-looking game.

 

[Sou Da]

So, what exactly is the reasoning behind no difficulty selection?

 

[Keyouta]

So, what exactly is the reasoning behind no difficulty selection?

There's no real reasoning. I'm not sure whether Game Freak has said why the games don't have one. They added in a difficulty selection in Black 2 and White 2, but it was horribly implemented. Instead of improving on it, it seems like they've removed it altogether. Hopefully we'll see one in ORAS.

 

[Carl7]

Pokemon can be resumed by 3 words: Battle, trade, collect. In my opnion they should keep focusing on it.

 

[LeleSocho]

Good lord, 15? Really?

15 never but low 20 yes

The models in those games are nowhere near as detailed as these ones.

Seriously, you're mistaking the artwork aesthetic they've adopted to be low poly.

Dude you really need to stop defending your treasured franchise this much, i understand that you own one of the biggest websites dedicated for it and you can't let people talk bad about the franchise because you got to keep the clicks coming but you need to moderate yourself.

1) The games mentioned looks miles better than X&Y
2) When you say that the models are not as detailed as XY you "forget" to mention that those are only when you battle but in reality outside battles everything looks like crap
3) Snake's model on MGS3 (the original on ps2) has 3800 polygons and the 3ds version has better models than the original, to add to that they are better textured than pokémon and that can be up to (if memory serves me right) 5 of these models with roughly the same quality on screen, rounded for the worse that's 15000 polygons at once now i don't know how many poly the pokemons have but i doubt that every one of them has 7000 polys and even if it was they always "live" in a 2d arenas opposed to mgs3d and with worse textures.

Seriously i understand and all but do not try to defend what can't be defended.

 

[Small Mailman]

Who the fuck cares about frame rate in a Pokemon game? Also, I thought the light use of 3D in X&Y was well done. Only for key events and nice set pieces and whatnot.