tim_pkmn89
Member
The engine team is too busy working on the Gen 7 engine so that gen can ship out on time.
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Why is Game Freak so incompetent?
- Thread starter Sammy Samusu
- Start date
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
The opinions that intimate knowledge of game development creates
killatopak
Member
Pokémon as a franchise is developed to be portable. It is part of the design philosophy. The idea is for you to take it out with you to battle and trade with friends. Game Freak have been saying this from the very beginning. While people our age may not get it as much, the young fans still do.
At first, there were actual legitimate reasons for a home console Pokémon such as 3D graphics, online etc., but as of now, there's very little a home console can bring to Pokémon due to the 3DS being powerful enough for 3D graphics and having online.
It'd end up denting sales while having a bigger budget. It would remove one of the most fundamental aspects of Pokémon. It just wouldn't work.
Game Freak have been on record as saying it will never happen, and it will never happen. Some may say "Then Nintendo should give it to a different developer", but they can't do that. It's not Nintendo's decision.
GhostTrick
Banned
To be honest, I don't think they'll change engine with the next handheld. In fact, the current engine is already great and would show more potential with a more powerful handheld. In fact, I'd say that Pokémon XY would look a ton better with proper texture filtering and higher res.
WrenchNinja
Member
I mean it in the nicest way possible. I'm a sucker too, I keep buying these games, third versions included. Chill out.
So is the game going to be bloated by including the ability to change your damn skin tone too? I mean you agree with their region exclusive feature argument apparently?
They are essentially 15+ years behind in terms of graphics. With Diamond/Pearl they were still doing 2D sprites with a crude Super FX-ish overworld and that was 2006.
They just aren't a very good technical developer, even Pokemon Trozei doesn't support 3D. If the 3DS can run Kid Icarus Uprising then it should be able to run Pokemon in full 3D.
They just aren't a very good technical developer, even Pokemon Trozei doesn't support 3D. If the 3DS can run Kid Icarus Uprising then it should be able to run Pokemon in full 3D.
Soodanim
Member
"Hi, Nintendo? Yeah, it's Game Freak. You know that biggest franchise you've ever had for portable we make? Yeah, that's the one. Well, over here we're not that experienced with 3D yet and we could use a bit of help getting this running at a half decent speed."
"Sure, we'll send some guys over."
Why not?
"Sure, we'll send some guys over."
Why not?
FunkyMunkey
Banned
I thought it was just 3ds limitations, but after seeing smash 3ds and some other games, it's fairly apparent that they're just not excellent at utilizing 3D yet. The framerate especially :/
Na, I think removing customisation is a mistake. I'm talking about the other features.
Pretty sure that happened.
Pokémon Battle Trozei was developed by Genius Sonority, not Game Freak. Genius Sonority have made 3D 3DS games. It was not 3D because it would have been jarring seeing as most of the gameplay is on the bottom screen.
It's exaggerated somewhat. The frame rate is an issue in Stereoscopic 3D and when you're against a Yanma horde, but otherwise it's solid.
Gipsy Danger
Member
Hey, that's me!
I downloaded but haven't played the demo yet however if the issues are still there I'm severely disappointed. It was super irritating in XY but it's Pokémon so I'll still end up buying it regardless. I am weak. Hopefully the retail version is better.
PensivePen
Member
It's unfortunate that the game doesn't run well, but a turn-based RPG is probably the genre where that is least important to me.
They are pretty incompetent though. There are DS titles that look just as good as the 3DS entries in the Pokemon franchise. Take Dragon Quest Joker for example:
They totally dropped the ball
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
The juxtaposition of GameFreak making as much money as feasibly possible and then just really half-assing every release with tech and a technical development level from 10 years ago is so grody that its kinda amazing it ever gets defended.
Just what is the excuse for the world exploration segments to not be in 3D? I don't understand at all.
Just what is the excuse for the world exploration segments to not be in 3D? I don't understand at all.
chicagocubsfan
Member
Lol I don't care how "advanced" the models look. They still ran like shit on X and Y and that hampered my enjoyment of it. GF are incompetent if they can't get the framerate fixed over a year.
airmangataosenai
Member
Let's be honest here, the models aren't really all that detailed even by 3DS standards. They're fairly mediocre on poly count and utilize very flat cel shading with little to no detail in the textures. And that's with the game cheating by never having to render many characters simultaneously, nor a complex environment around them during battles.
Let's be honest here, the models aren't really all that detailed even by 3DS standards. They're fairly mediocre on poly count and utilize very flat cel shading with little to no detail in the textures. And that's with the game cheating by never having to render many characters simultaneously, nor a complex environment around them during battles.
I dunno what you're trying to prove with your example, because that's more detailed than any model I can remember from any other game on the 3DS.
Still, game is badly optimized.
Well it's way worse than the cartridge version (own both). When 2 Pokémon are on screen it dips to around 15-25 fps (more movement slows it down further). This is on a really fast class 10 SD card too.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Monster Hunter 3, Street Fighter 4, Resident Evil Revelations, all have detailed 3d models being displayed at the same time as actual full 3D environments. Go even further and you now have ruddy Smash Bros on the thing with 4 characters at once.
Now, perhaps because GameFreak are so new to 3d modelling here in 201X, they failed to optimise their models in ways other devs have been familiar with for the last 20 years, but theres just no excuse.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
I don't think it's gonna break the bank to get the games to run at a competent frame rate. Let's be serious for a second. No one's asking them to do anything more than fix their games performance.
EDIT: As Pie and Beans says above me, Smash Bros plays at a buttery 60fps with 4 players on screen and much more detailed character models...in stereoscopic 3D. How can Pokemon not run at a competent 30fps in and OUT of stereoscopic 3D?
ArchedThunder
Banned
Textures are lowres, but the poly counts are ridiculously high.
Let's be honest here, the models aren't really all that detailed even by 3DS standards. They're fairly mediocre on poly count and utilize very flat cel shading with little to no detail in the textures. And that's with the game cheating by never having to render many characters simultaneously, nor a complex environment around them during battles.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
I can't believe so many people are giving GF a pass on such a shoddy engine. Are these the same fans that praise WiiU titles for aiming for 60fps?
I hate that greedy mindset.
I mean you're right that it's most likely the case, but seriously why is money always the end goal here? How about "hey, let's make the best pokemon game as possible! Let's make sure we give everyone the best Pokemon experience fans of all ages deserve!"
Wouldn't that be great? A company that just wants to make the best games as possible instead of giving little effort and cost for biggest profit margins? I know I think so.
I mean, all Gamefreak does is make Pokemon games, surely they would pour their hearts and souls into it right? Surely they are given quite a high budget to make a nice, well polished and competent technical level Pokemon game right?....right?
Let's be honest here, the models aren't really all that detailed even by 3DS standards. They're fairly mediocre on poly count and utilize very flat cel shading with little to no detail in the textures. And that's with the game cheating by never having to render many characters simultaneously, nor a complex environment around them during battles.
You're mistaking the Ken Sugimori style textures for poor quality. People have got into the code and the models are incredibly high in polygon count.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Yeah the production values are absolutely shocking. I've cancelled my preorder.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
This does not explain the lack of 3D while exploring, nor does it explain the game shoddy frame rate while in battle sometimes. While the Pokemon models are impressive, it's not as if you're controlling the Pokemon in real time, and their animation sets are limited. There's no way the game should run the way it does, even on 3DS.
I just came in here to say the primary audience, 8-14 isn't even going to notice. I've never heard either of my sons (8 and 11) complain and both have hundreds of hours on X and Y. They want the new one in a bad way and won't care.
On the other hand it would be interesting to know if it's a hardware limit, tight development cycle or other factors. How do spending decisions get made on a game this is guaranteed to sell triple A volumes no matter the quality? I think Game Freak and Nintendo both have a vested interest in keeping some standard of quality even if the target audience has very little voice and isn't as discerning.
On the other hand it would be interesting to know if it's a hardware limit, tight development cycle or other factors. How do spending decisions get made on a game this is guaranteed to sell triple A volumes no matter the quality? I think Game Freak and Nintendo both have a vested interest in keeping some standard of quality even if the target audience has very little voice and isn't as discerning.
It's true if you turn on 3D effect during Pokemon battle.
ArchedThunder
Banned
The difference is that Pokemon doesn't need a high framerate because it requires little to no timed inputs or coordination to play. A higher framerate would be nice, but it doesn't actually improve the gameplay the way it does in a platformer or action game. The framerate in 3D can make the game pretty unplayable but 3D isn't needed in Pokemon, nor does it improve the gameplay like it does with a platformer. When cutting out the hyperbole the game's framerate runs at an acceptable level for the kind of game it is when in 2D. Frame dips in XY in the overworld were short and far between, while in battles (in 2D) the framerate typically only dropped in battles with 6 Pokemon, though it could drop under certain circumstances with fewer Pokemon such as an odd drop when the camera goes split screen.
That being said the performance issues do bother me and I would love a more stable framerate, but considering the type of game that Pokemon is some frame dips hardly ruin the game and it is more of an annoyance than anything. I think it's silly for someone to say that they won't buy a Pokemon RPG because of some performance issues and it's insulting to call GameFreak incompetent or lazy because of those issues. I would say GameFreak isn't very technically proficient, but they are far from incompetent or lazy.
Starwolf_UK
Member
I remember hearing some games in the PS1 era Fifa had cheats to turn off the crowd and/or pitch which gave massive performance improvements. Shame the same thing can't be done for Pokemon here as you did see an improvement in battle environments which were just black screens (some indoor areas).
Given how much worse the game tanks during some Mega evolutions I like to think they had a poly limit in mind at one point of design but overstepped the marks a bit.
Given how much worse the game tanks during some Mega evolutions I like to think they had a poly limit in mind at one point of design but overstepped the marks a bit.
I think that can be explained by how they load multiple maps at once; routes, towns etc. so that they don't necessarily have to use gates as faux loading. As such, that much load means that the 3DS's processor may struggle when loading it twice. That's why most 3D capable areas in the overworld are small caves, buildings etc.
As for battles, the high polygon count does actually factor in. The only time the game stutters outside of stereoscopic 3D is typically with multiple winged Pokémon in battle. Their animations, using models with such high polygon counts, seems to be too much for the 3DS again
For battling whether or not you have direct control of the Pokémon or their animation sets are irrelevant to the performance.
X and Y was amazing? I can't believe i bought a 3ds for that game. Not that it's bad but it was disappointing to me. From an online front it's spectacular, main game is probably worst i've played. Couple it with very little post game.
Technical performances and graphcs aside, there's nothing really enticing me to get this game. I don't really care for the megas and I still have my emerald version. If post game is as much as X and Y, i won't buy this at all.
I would never call gamefreak devs lazy or incompotent, but to me it's as though they aren't trying to much. They don't really have to try anyways
60 FPS sure, but you're giving them a pass on 3D because "Pokemon doesn't need it"? An unstable framerate is okay because "it hardly ruins the game"? Come on dude.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
So you're telling me that complexity of character movement and control has nothing to do with frame rate? Honest question.
So it sounds as if the problem will be partially fixed, in theory, on the new 3DS. Going forward that is, with newer Pokemon games.
Let's be honest here, the models aren't really all that detailed even by 3DS standards. They're fairly mediocre on poly count and utilize very flat cel shading with little to no detail in the textures. And that's with the game cheating by never having to render many characters simultaneously, nor a complex environment around them during battles.
Those models are of really high quality
I'm telling you it doesn't.
Glass Rebel
Member
They had to fire some engine programmers to make room for all the money they've been making for the last two decades.
I really don't care about 3D in Pokemon. I still prefer the 2D from the old games, than the 3D from Pokemon X and Y. It looks nice, but that's about it.
My main complaint about Game Freak is, how they treat us with the distribution of Event Pokemon. Would be much easier, if those events were globally and over the internet, instead of having to go to a shop and pick up a serial code. It's only leading to people cheating those Pokemon and that's pretty dumb.
My main complaint about Game Freak is, how they treat us with the distribution of Event Pokemon. Would be much easier, if those events were globally and over the internet, instead of having to go to a shop and pick up a serial code. It's only leading to people cheating those Pokemon and that's pretty dumb.
ArchedThunder
Banned
3D is entirely superfluous for Pokemon and frame dips don't ruin the game because it's turn based, that and outside of 3D the frame dips aren't as bad or common as the hyperbole makes it seem.
The idea of event Pokémon is for them to be held at an event where people go and battle & trade, the lynchpins of Pokémon in general. Doing it online removes such a thing.
We get online distributions of them later, most of the time, but the initial should always be some big event.
They're only serial codes now because stores in the west kept jacking the distribution cards and selling them on eBay.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
So if the Pokemon models in XY/ORAS were completely static, the game would still perform the same way it does now? Simply due to poly count? That doesn't sound right at all to me.
Sounds like tales from my ass, but I'd love someone to chime in on this because I'm genuinely intrigued by the science behind it.
King Gilga
Member
They are but why should they care? People will gobble that shit up by the millions anyways.
We all know, that GameFreak loves to punish everybody for something, that went wrong somewhere. Just like the later release date for OR/AS in EU, because some people got Pokemon X and Y early. It's beyond stupid and there are other ways to stop that.
Other companies are suing those shops with a 50.000 fee and it works.
"3D" is literally in the name of the system Pokemon is currently exclusive to. I don't think it's a good excuse when the majority of developers haven't had issues with it. Framerate consistency, especially at 30 FPS, is something to be expected from every game.