Funny how the one movie where DC was actively trying to set up their cinematic universe is the one that gets dismissed as a boo-boo... ah well, I'm sure they've learned their lesson, right?
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Forbes: Marvel & DC Fans: Stop Rooting Against Each Other's Films
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Funny how the one movie where DC was actively trying to set up their cinematic universe is the one that gets dismissed as a boo-boo... ah well, I'm sure they've learned their lesson, right?
My question regarding these "wars" has always been the same: what are the win conditions? The only ones I can imagine is that one side stops making movies, and then...why would you want that? Cause either side bowing out ultimately means less cool comic movies for you to enjoy. You're the only one who loses out here.
Criticism of either side is fine, but the whole sports team aspect mainly serves to obstruct conversation. The "us" vs "them" mentality doesn't allow a lot of room for nuance, and means we just end up talking in circles.
Criticism of either side is fine, but the whole sports team aspect mainly serves to obstruct conversation. The "us" vs "them" mentality doesn't allow a lot of room for nuance, and means we just end up talking in circles.
Yeah. It's weird to me that people honestly think every DC movie will have the same tone when their TV strategy shows they're willing to make adjustments based on the character.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
I don't freakin' know. It has SOME precedent in terms of games (console A sells better, thus more and better games devoted to console A) but is still very silly.
In terms of movies, I guess it's just bragging rights for your favourite characters? The only thing anyone should want is for both of them to make awesome movies.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
I would love to enjoy DC's movies, they just keep making that very difficult for me to do.
As Ninja Scooter says, it makes sense in games. If you buy an Xbox One and only an Xbox One, the PS4 and Wii U failing means more developers making games for your system. You gain something from that loss.
DC vs Marvel though? Eh. Bragging rights and ribbing are cool and all, but there are definitely folks who want to see one side or the other fail and it boggles the mind because fans gain nothing there. And like I said, it just makes it impossible to actually have an enjoyable conversation when folks are constantly trying to tear one side down or hype one side to the moon.
Yes DC's track record isn't perfect, but every decision they make isn't automatically the wrong one. Yes, Marvel's riding high right now, but their movies and practices aren't perfect; people are entitled to dislike or even hate them and still participate in the conversation. I just wish conversation about both could be a little more measured instead of instant hate/love parades.
BadAss2961
Member
DC's willing to attempt smart and emotional cinema as well as entertaining popcorn fun. Just quality from every aspect, hitting more than just one note... So are other Marvel movies outside of the cookie-cutter Marvel productions.
Days of Future Past was trying to be more than just dumb fun, and it succeeded at that in my opinion. It was solid.
I'd say so. They finally have a good Superman reboot, which has finally gotten a Batman/Superman movie off the ground.
Father_Brain
Banned
I won't name names, but I will say that at least a few of the more ardent MoS defenders around here seem to praise it as much out of contempt for Marvel Studios and its fans as out of genuine affection for the film itself.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Yep. The money blockbusters make helps finance smaller films. It's also helps the company take more risks. Without blockbusters there is no way movies like Gravity or Interstaller could get funding in this day and age.
BadAss2961
Member
Ha, I imagine i'm on your list.
Even if that were true, no one shits on other brands as much as MCU fans. They even bring the same negativity to Marvel products outside the MCU. They've just about reached console war status, and they're the majority around these parts. So to call out others before them is showing colors.
TheKaeptain
Banned
If I didn't have a kid I wouldn't watch most of these movies.
Father_Brain
Banned
I don't think MoS itself was the primary factor in getting BvS or Justice League off the ground, somehow.
Father_Brain
Banned
Well, if nothing else, I'll agree that the fixation on the idea of Marvel getting all its IP back (as opposed to hoping for Fox and Sony to make better films) is pretty inane.
Schweinehund
Member
I don't think they're true fans out of appreciation for everything marvel, rather they're just bandwagoners. It happens with everything that is super popular.
BadAss2961
Member
Marvel might be the primary reason we're getting BvS, but Man of Steel's success is what made it possible in 2016. Having a good Superman that people like goes a long way. DC wanted to build off Green Lantern and Superman Returns as well, but people weren't feeling those movies, or Routh's Superman who may as well never existed.
Metallix87
Member
Agreed. "Man of Steel", despite some critics, ended up being fairly popular and doing well at the box office. It's a good jumping off point for a cinematic universe. If BvS is equally well received, it should be smooth sailing into Justice League.
Father_Brain
Banned
I'm not convinced that MoS was really that popular with the general public.
I'm not convinced it wasn't, mind you, but I don't think CinemaScore tells the full story (and lord knows the box office doesn't, seeing as how ASM2, a film almost no one praises, performed slightly better).
not psycho
Member
Eh, not really. More like there are tons of people who love DC properties, love DCAU, and feel like they are getting sucker punched in the gut by Zack Snyder. I feel like if they even took a tiny bit of inspiration from the DCAU they could make some great films, but from what is being announced it's Zack Snyders all the way down. And down. And down.
yep
You know what, keep Fantastic Four. Let Marvel use the villains. I don't want Reed Richards anyway, fuck that guy
DC should put 100% focus on their TV shows, this is where they excel currently. And then use that bridge to make movies from there.
All these movies that DC is "announcing" is crap.
The ONLY reason they are doing these movies is because of Marvel. If Marvel haven't been chucking out these films in the past 2-3 years, you think Warner Bros. gives a shit about fucking Aquaman?
My problem with DCAU is that they give Batman this awesome portrayal, epic voice.....while the rest of the characters don't get the same treatment.
Why do you think people say that "DC is Batman but no one else".
And now these movies come out and there's very little excitement it seems for Flash or whoever....
I'll say the most annoying recent trend here on Gaf as far as this "war" goes is fans of both sides acting like they're being victimized by the other. Not going to call anyone out, but I read and participate in enough of these threads to know there's people acting like dicks and shitting up threads all along on the superhero movie fan spectrum.
It's like what happened with The Flash and Arrow. When The Flash's costume was first revealed, people were saying the show was going to be all "dark and grits" based on the fact that it tied into Arrow and - get this - Barry's costume wasn't the right shade of red. Lo and behold, the show comes out with a completely different feel and flavor from its sister program. And that show has the same damn creative team as Arrow, whereas the movies will all be helmed by different writers, directors, etc. My point here being that WB's DC strategy is largely an unknown at this point, and trying to make definite statements about what they will or won't do at this point is a fool's game.
Personally, I find "prepare for the worse but hope for the best" to be a far more effective way of managing expectations than "hype to heaven or trash to hell," but that's me.
But Zack Synder isn't making every movie. He's making BvS, Justice League, and Man of Steel 2 (whenever that happens). They've said nothing about him being in control of or having a say in every property (beyond casting the JLA, I suppose). And yet, people are acting like he's in charge of each one, and have declared the whole thing dead on arrival based on that.
It's like what happened with The Flash and Arrow. When The Flash's costume was first revealed, people were saying the show was going to be all "dark and grits" based on the fact that it tied into Arrow and - get this - Barry's costume wasn't the right shade of red. Lo and behold, the show comes out with a completely different feel and flavor from its sister program. And that show has the same damn creative team as Arrow, whereas the movies will all be helmed by different writers, directors, etc. My point here being that WB's DC strategy is largely an unknown at this point, and trying to make definite statements about what they will or won't do at this point is a fool's game.
Personally, I find "prepare for the worse but hope for the best" to be a far more effective way of managing expectations than "hype to heaven or trash to hell," but that's me.
And why exactly is that a bad thing? The alternative is that they don't make any movies, and there's less to potentially watch. That doesn't really seem like the best outcome if you're a fan of DC who enjoys superhero movies.
I don't know why you would have such an irrational hatred for dc announcing movies to many of their properties. How does this hurt you?
Manmademan
Member
Man of Steel is fine. Not winning any oscars but it's fine.
Now, if you had thrown out "Catwoman" and "Jonah Hex" you might have had something there.
Don't forget Steel!
Manmademan
Member
Steel and Supergirl (which is no bullshit the WORST movie I've ever sat through, superhero or not) are so ancient I'm willing to give them a pass.
Supergirl literally made no sense.
Thank you! All I needed to know, saves me a bit of typing.
Face it Tiger..
Banned
Sorry Forbes,
Nerd infighting is like my bloodsport/ Fight Club.
you can't take it away from me
Nerd infighting is like my bloodsport/ Fight Club.
you can't take it away from me
Father_Brain
Banned
Is it really that unreasonable to think (or fear, or hope) that BvS and Justice League are intended to set the tone for the entire shared universe?
It's not unreasonable, but stating "This is what they're going to do" when we only have 10% of the information in front of us is. Like I said, we look at what they're doing in TV and we see they're willing to course correct and go a different route based on the character. Why assume they're not going to do that for films as well?
Of course, the obvious counter is "why assume they are?" which is really my point. We don't really know much of anything at this point. I get being nervous for BvS and even Justice League - really I do - but I can't get extrapolating that to the other 9 or so films in their pipeline when most have no creative talent we know of attached.
Father_Brain
Banned
Because to the best of my knowledge, the "they" on the film side has very little overlap with the "they" on the TV side. And Arrow is still much closer tonally to Flash than to MoS, I'd say.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Is that even a thing?
Generally Marvel puts out a passable film that fans of the comic will like. (To be fair they also made Iron Man 3...)
DC has managed *one* decent property which is vastly overrated. They usually give us stuff like Green Lantern.
There's a reason things shake out the way they do.
Generally Marvel puts out a passable film that fans of the comic will like. (To be fair they also made Iron Man 3...)
DC has managed *one* decent property which is vastly overrated. They usually give us stuff like Green Lantern.
There's a reason things shake out the way they do.
But it's still ultimately the same family of products, same IP house, with the same people at the top overlooking everything. And like I said, we still don't know who they're looking at to write and/or direct these things. The last rumors about Shazam suggested they were looking for people known for children's movies to helm the project. If true, that's at least one property that's likely to be very different from MoS and BvS tonally.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I've heard it said before, but it bears repeating:
If Zack Snyder had the common sense to not work out, grow a beard, wear glasses and sweater - people would cut him way more slack.
But instead he lifts weights and he's not the most articulate man, and so he's seen as some sort of troglodytic interloper who is somehow unfit to adapt superhero stories.
If Zack Snyder had the common sense to not work out, grow a beard, wear glasses and sweater - people would cut him way more slack.
But instead he lifts weights and he's not the most articulate man, and so he's seen as some sort of troglodytic interloper who is somehow unfit to adapt superhero stories.
TheKaeptain
Banned
Sometimes I do think a lot of nerds resent him for being good looking and kind of buff. The whole "he isn't one of us" mentality.
Or maybe because he's not very good? Just a thought.
Nah, we've just seen his adaptions.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
or, maybe because he made Sucker Punch
Discotheque
Banned
Zack Snyder's alright, he's not great but he's not awful either. Fantastic eye for visuals but the performances he gets usually are bland
He's decent for the genre. We're never gonna get an ang Lee or something tackling the genre again huh?
He's decent for the genre. We're never gonna get an ang Lee or something tackling the genre again huh?
As long as we're on the subject of the war, I want WB to scoop up Edgar Wright for something. Namely "The Flash."
Sucker Punch really is the moment everyone decided he was the ABSOLUTE WORST. I don't recall people hating on him all that much, up to and including the Michael Bay comparisons, until that movie.
he's the Michael Bay of comic book movies. Take it as you wish
Discotheque
Banned
Yeah I hope dc picks wright up for sure.
And sony gets the 21 jump street dudes for spiderman
And sony gets the 21 jump street dudes for spiderman
lmao, no it doesn't, come on man. People can't criticize his weaknesses as a filmmaker or feel skeptical about his turn on BvS or Justice League based on the 10-year track record he's accrued so far without it being rooted in insecurity over how often he lifts? That sounds more like projecting than any hypothetical nerd resentment does. I like Zack Snyder, so I must be one of the beautiful ones!
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