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[IrishNinja]

DC is perfectly capable of fucking up its movies on its own, despite dominating forever in animation & doing really well lately in TV, Gotham aside

...their books, though

he's the Michael Bay of comic book movies. Take it as you wish

ehhh but he did Watchmen fairly well

 

[rude]

he's the Michael Bay of comic book movies. Take it as you wish

But Snyder can direct coherent action sequences/frame a shot beautifully. So.

 

[DarkFlow]

But Snyder can direct coherent action sequences/frame a shot beautifully. So.

That's about the only thing Bay CAN do.

 

[rude]

That's about the only thing Bay CAN do.

I disagree.

 

[DarkFlow]

I disagree.

Okay.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

lmao, no it doesn't, come on man. People can't criticize his weaknesses as a filmmaker or feel skeptical about his turn on BvS or Justice League based on the 10-year track record he's accrued so far without it being rooted in insecurity over how often he lifts?

Sure they can

You gonna tell me that his appearance has NOTHING to do with it for some people, though? Especially considering the kind of passes that get handed out for motherfuckers like, say, Kevin Smith?

Christ, I'm not saying EVERY complaint against the guy is rooted in some sort of jealousy. But it's also pretty obvious that the guy is talked about by certain segments of the comics community as some sort of butt-chinned interloper who doesn't DESERVE to be working on these films because he fucking showers.

You really think I'm actually suggesting (as a person who has very clearly criticized his lacking aspects as a director and a storyteller multiple times) that ANYONE who has a problem with Zack Snyder is weak girlyman with noodle arms juuuust strong enough to lift stained a fedora to settle on their pointy head before hitting the internet?

That shoe doesn't fit me. It apparently doesn't fit you.

That doesn't mean it's not snug as a bug in a rug on some of these little brats.

 

[DarkFlow]

Sure they can

You gonna tell me that his appearance has NOTHING to do with it for some people, though? Especially considering the kind of passes that get handed out for motherfuckers like, say, Kevin Smith?

Christ, I'm not saying EVERY complaint against the guy is rooted in some sort of jealously. But it's also pretty obvious that the guy is talked about by certain segments of the comics community as some sort of butt-chinned interloper who doesn't DESERVE to be working on these films because he fucking showers.

You really think I'm actually suggesting (as a person who has very clearly criticized his lacking aspects as a director and a storyteller multiple times) that ANYONE who has a problem with Zack Snyder is weak girlyman with noodle arms juuuust strong enough to lift stained a fedora to settle on their pointy head before hitting the internet?

Why yes, I'm going to tell you that.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Why yes, I'm going to tell you that.

You're wrong, unfortunately.

 

[DarkFlow]

You're wrong, unfortunately.

I would think if anyone feels this way it's maybe 0.00000578% of people. Hell I couldn't pick him out of a line up myself, I don't really know what he looks like.

 

[Dead]

Zack Snyder should have cast himself as Batman clearly

Snyder's cred as a geek is definitely questioned a lot for some reason, ive noticed it. Dunno why. Only a through and through nerd could come up with something like Sucker Punch. Dude's got more geek cred than almost any other director in hollywood imo.

 

[Byakuya769]

Fans should keep doing what fans are prone to do.

Writing a thought piece on such an unimportant issue seems like an immense waste of time.

Only people handwringing over whether or not Joe Dude shits on Marvel cause he's DC 4 life or Jane Gal "knows" that DC will fail are fans embarrassed by other fans.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I would think if anyone feels this way it's maybe 0.00000578% of people.

Again, you're wrong.

 

[DarkFlow]

Again, you're wrong.

Do you have ANYTHING to back this up? I'm going to need a little more then "I got a feeling".

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Do you have ANYTHING to back this up? I'm going to need a little more then "I got a feeling".

Basic observation.

Your counterargument is "i've never seen it, and I don't even know what he looks like" so you're pretty openly admitting you don't know what you're talking about in this instance. For all you know I could be lying about the fact he does pushups, based on your previous post.

 

[DarkFlow]

Basic observation.

Your counterargument is "i've never seen it, and I don't even know what he looks like" so you're pretty openly admitting you don't know what you're talking about in this instance. For all you know I could be lying about the fact he does pushups, based on your previous post.

Come on Bobby, you're better than this.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Come on Bobby, you're better than this.

Better than what?

This is like, the third time I've heard something along these lines in the past couple weeks. What fucking esteem were you people holding me in before now, and how the fuck did that even happen?

Your entire rebuttal to my position hinges on you not paying attention to what's going on around you, and somehow that's a transgression against the picture of me you have in your mind?

I don't even know what's going on right now.

 

[DarkFlow]

Better than what?

What fucking esteem are you people holding me in?

Your entire rebuttal to my position hinges on you not paying attention to what's going on around you, and somehow that's a transgression against the picture of me you have in your mind?

I don't even know what's going on right now.

My "rebuttal" was pointing out the fact that most people likely have no fucking clue what he looks like, like most directors. I can still know a lot about a director without having any idea what he looks like.

Also, I was trying to be nice to you. I could go with what most people likely think and that's you're a try hard who thinks he's the smartest man in the room, but I don't want to be a jerk.

 

[TheKaeptain]

or, maybe because he made Sucker Punch

A lot of decent artist make shit art from time to time. 300, Dead Remake, and Watchman show that he has some talent. MoS showed he understands composition better than most other comic book directors.

Zack Snyder's alright, he's not great but he's not awful either. Fantastic eye for visuals but the performances he gets usually are bland

He's decent for the genre. We're never gonna get an ang Lee or something tackling the genre again huh?

He has a really good eye.


and Lee needs to make The Nao of Brown into a film.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

My "rebuttal" was pointing out the fact that most people likely have no fucking clue what he looks like, like most directors.

Why are you putting "rebuttal" in quotation marks?

And most people don't get in online discussions about superhero movie directors, either, So obviously I'm not talking about those people.

edit - the number of people who have complained about me being "the smartest man in the room" are on average, kind of fuckin' dumb. So it was a good call not joining their ranks. Congrats on that.

"I was trying to be nice to you by throwing a half-assed guilt trip in the general direction of your lap" isn't being "nice," either.

 

[ReiGun]

Man of Steel, I think, was the best case for Synder being only as strong as the material he's given. When the script gave him something good to work with (Martha and Clark in the school, the first flight, the fight with the World Engine) he made it sing. When the material wasn't there (much of the Krypton stuff, the build up to the first flight, the fucking tornado), the movie fell flat on its face.

It'll be interesting to see what Terrio (and Affleck, if he has any input on the script) gives him in BvS and Justice League.

 

[BadAss2961]

or, maybe because he made Sucker Punch

The Sucker Punch hate is something i'll never understand. What exactly were people expecting when they heard about this movie and saw the trailers? I expected a fun, anime inspired romp with hot young chicks and gaudy spectacle. I got that and a bit more, as SP does have meaning beneath the surface that people completely missed or just didn't care to notice.

 

[inky]

I've heard it said before, but it bears repeating:

If Zack Snyder had the common sense to not work out, grow a beard, wear glasses and sweater - people would cut him way more slack.

What a load of bullshit.

 

[TheKaeptain]

What a load of bullshit.

If you don't believe him just wait until the next DC event and watch the twitterverse nerds comment on the way he speaks and looks. It's pretty fucking sad.



EDIT: DarkFlow, Ad hominem isn't a good look.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

What a load of bullshit.

It really isn't.

There is definitely a subsection of superhero fans who think they know shit about movies the making thereof who cut Snyder way less slack than they otherwise would because they consider him a musclehead bro who doesn't really GET their beloved characters.

That YOU aren't one of those people doesn't mean those people don't exist.

 

[BLACKLAC]

It really isn't.

There is definitely a subsection of superhero fans who think they know shit about movies the making thereof who cut Snyder way less slack than they otherwise would because they consider him a musclehead bro who doesn't really GET their beloved characters.

That YOU aren't one of those people doesn't mean those people don't exist.

Any examples?

 

[KalBalboa]

Great piece. I got a bit bummed out at all the DC lashing that emerged from the new Marvel announcements the other day rather than positivity.

 

[olympia]

Spoken like a true DC fan.

Ha, word.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Any examples?

No, I pulled this theory entirely out of my ass based on minimal anecdotal evidence hurriedly googled for less than 2 minutes after hearing someone else suggest the notion and deciding it sounded good enough to repeat on a forum so I could feel like I was the smartest person in the room.

C'mon.

 

[KalBalboa]

No, I pulled this theory entirely out of my ass based on minimal anecdotal evidence hurriedly googled for less than 2 minutes after hearing someone else suggest the notion and deciding it sounded good enough to repeat on a forum so I could feel like I was the smartest person in the room.

C'mon.

Bobby, you devil.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

#NotAllFanboys

 

[ReiGun]

I can't say I've seen people criticizing Synder's appearance, but then the poeple I follow on Twitter don't get down like that and I never seen it on Gaf. Have seen people take him to task for not being the most articulate guy. The word "dudebro" has been thrown around, which is funny to me, because again, dude looks like a giant nerd.

I mean, this is the guy whose whole filmography just looks like a love letter to things nerds grew up loving like comics and anime. Who, when it came time to make his version of Batman for film, ripped the design right off the page of one of the most famous Batman stories of all time and let it rock. This is the guy who fought for Superman to actually keep his red trunks.

Actually, Synder makes the kinds of comic book movies most comic fans would make were they given the chance, I think. Ones that revere the source material to a ridiculous degree.

 

[inky]

If you don't believe him just wait until the next DC event and watch the twitterverse nerds comment on the way he speaks and looks. It's pretty fucking sad.

It's not that I don't believe some people could say that. People are prejudiced against the silliest things. I can get examples of people on twitter saying stupid shit about any topic. I'm pretty sure closet racists will trash movies like Black Panther on that basis alone, pretending it's about the quality of the movie.

It's that I don't see them being such a strong and large contingent that somehow colors public opinion to a large degree. And certainly that "twitterverse" is not the spearhead of all Snyder criticism, who as a director has strengths and also many weaknesses. Saying that "stupid people have stupid opinions" so "it bears repeating it" because other people without said opinions don't cut a guy a certain amount of slack doesn't help any conversation.

That is what I'm calling bullshit.

 

[Father_Brain]

Yes, yes, Bobby, we get it, you're the smartest person on Film-GAF and are above all these petty fanboy debates, and we lowly nerds are mere silhouettes before the blazing sun that is your intellect.

You know better than us. You always do. You are never wrong.

EDIT: Oh, I see, you think people who don't like your Internet persona and see you as suffering from rampant smartest-person-in-the-room syndrome are "kind of dumb." Well, that totally shows them!

 

[BadAss2961]

I can't say I've seen people criticizing Synder's appearance, but then the poeple I follow on Twitter don't get down like that and I never seen it on Gaf. Have seen people take him to task for not being the most articulate guy. The word "dudebro" has been thrown around, which is funny to me, because again, dude looks like a giant nerd.

I mean, this is the guy whose whole filmography just looks like a love letter to things nerds grew up loving like comics and anime. Who, when it came time to make his version of Batman for film, ripped the design right off the page of one of the most famous Batman stories of all time and let it rock. This is the guy who fought for Superman to actually keep his red trunks.

Actually, Synder makes the kinds of comic book movies most comic fans would make were they given the chance, I think. Ones that revere the source material to a ridiculous degree.

And yet he's the most hated director on the scene.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

It's not that I don't believe some people could say that.

So I don't understand why you're calling bullshit then.

It's that I don't see them being such a strong and large contingent that somehow colors public opinion to a large degree.

Where did I say him being percieved as a "bro" was the main reason people crack on the guy, and that said reasoning was the main reasoning they used when judging his filmography?

What I said was "people would cut him way more slack."

I don't know what's bullshit about that.

 

[Father_Brain]

Man of Steel is the kind of adaptation most comic fans would make if given the chance? Maybe in the 90s.

 

[Team Filler]

I've always found the hate for Snyder pretty funny. This is a guy who made a name for himself with a Dawn of the Dead remake and bringing Frank fucking Miller's 300 to the big screen. I suppose that's not enough nerd cred for him, though.

I bet you he'd have more fans here if he had a couple failed tv shows under his belt where all of his main characters were either overbearingly clever or ironic.

 

[ReiGun]

Man of Steel is the kind of adaptation most comic fans would make if given the chance? Maybe in the 90s.

There are a lot of Superman fans that loved Man of Steel. Given the chance, they probably would have made a movie very similar.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

There are a lot of Superman fans that loved Man of Steel. Given the chance, they probably would have made a movie very similar.

If Man of Steel had come out in 2008, people would have considered it the ultimate apology for Superman Returns and praised it as such.

 

[Krogan]

If Man of Steel had come out in 2008, people would have considered it the ultimate apology for Superman Returns and praised it as such.

A mediocre film in 2013 is still mediocre even if it came out in 2008.

 

[inky]

What I said was "people would cut him way more slack."

I don't know what's bullshit about that.

Yeah, you said "people". As in, people in general would cut him more slack if he wasn't some way or another like it was some common idea floating about people just have.

I imagine you feel the need to bring this up because you think he's unfairly judged, and that unfairness comes from some psychological trauma "people" have. We are still talking about his movies, right?

Well, I mean, yea. It's still bullshit.

 

[Team Filler]

If Man of Steel had come out in 2008, people would have considered it the ultimate apology for Superman Returns and praised it as such.

To be fair, if Man of Steel had come out with The Dark Knight also coming out that same year, I could easily see many DC fans being just as insufferable then as MCU fans can be now, with all the "can do no wrong" bullshit spouted back and forth.

 

[TheKaeptain]

Yes, yes, Bobby, we get it, you're the smartest person on Film-GAF and are above all these petty fanboy debates, and we lowly nerds are mere silhouettes before the blazing sun that is your intellect.

You know better than us. You always do. You are never wrong.

EDIT: Oh, I see, you think people who don't like your Internet persona and see you as suffering from rampant smartest-person-in-the-room syndrome are "kind of dumb." Well, that totally shows them!

I'm going to take up for Bobby but he doesn't ever act like the smartest person in the room. He, like a lot of us that are a part of film-gaf, have more knowledge of film than most. This can lead to a tone that can be considered condescending but I don't believe it is ever meant to be.

Second, This attack on him has nothing to do with the subject at hand. It's irrelevant and just shows you and darkflow have nothing to really say on the subject.

 

[ReiGun]

A mediocre film in 2013 is still mediocre even if it came out in 2008.

There's no objective standard for what a mediocre film is and audience taste changes all the time. Look at the Spider-Man and X-Men films; considered great when they came out, and nowadays you got people coming out of the woodwork to declare them bad or talk about how in hindsight they weren't that great.

To be fair, if Man of Steel had come out with The Dark Knight also coming out that same year, I could easily see many DC fans being just as insufferable then as MCU fans can be now, with all the "can do no wrong" bullshit spouted back and forth.

Yup. It's all just sports fan bullshit at the end of the day.

 

[HK-47]

If Man of Steel had come out in 2008, people would have considered it the ultimate apology for Superman Returns and praised it as such.

I think many of the problems people have with Man of Steel would still exist if we sent it back in time.

 

[texhnolyze]

Do superhero movies ever win the Oscar besides for Visual Effects?
Maybe both fans should probably root for something more important first.

 

[TheKaeptain]

Do superhero movies ever win the Oscar besides for Visual Effects?
Maybe both fans should probably root for something more important first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrt2xoy5UHo

 

[evilromero]

Way to miss the point of the entire column.

Lol.

 

[BLACKLAC]

No, I pulled this theory entirely out of my ass based on minimal anecdotal evidence hurriedly googled for less than 2 minutes after hearing someone else suggest the notion and deciding it sounded good enough to repeat on a forum so I could feel like I was the smartest person in the room.

C'mon.

So no examples....?

Your hypothesis is the first I've heard of it, never seen it...

 

[Bobby Roberts]

A mediocre film in 2013 is still mediocre even if it came out in 2008.

The point I was making is that the mindset about both superhero films AND movies about Superman specifically was pretty different in 2006-2008. I vividly remember a lot of people complaining about how boring Superman Returns was, and a lot of the filmmaking aspects fans were wishing had been incorporated into their movie actually showed up in Man of Steel.

Movies don't happen in a vaccuum. The cultural context that worked against Man of Steel in 2013 to a small degree would have probably helped it had the movie come out in 2008, because the landscape was different.

You're right in that the faults in the movie proper wouldn't be any different. The herky-jerky pacing, the bad flashback structure, the bad dialog, etc etc. All of it still would have been there. But I do think a lot of superhero fans back then would have been a lot more willing to handwave them or at least shrug them off.

Keep in mind, they were hungry enough for a Superman movie in 2006 that they were willing to shrug off Superbastard, the piano-throwing murderer son of Lifto, the StalkerMan, for months afterwards while pointing at the airplane scene and the opening credits.

Yeah, you said "people". As in, people in general would cut him more slack if he wasn't some way or another like it was some common idea floating about people just have.

You quoted the direct sentence earlier. I don't know why you're trying to rephrase it clumsily. There's no need. I essentially suggested people would cut him more slack if he didn't look like a "dudebro." Obviously I'm putting forward the idea there's a contingent of superhero film fans (and to be even more blatantly clear, we're talking about a subsection of a subsection of film fan, further subsected (is that a word?) into those who choose to discuss film at length on forums/facebook/twitter) who unfairly factor his appearance/diction into their judgments of him.

Your hypothesis is the first I've heard of it, never seen it...

There's at least three other posters in this thread since I've brought it up who have said they've seen it themselves.