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[Dice]

DOA5 was a bag of crap compared to 4, it went backwards in so many ways and demonstrated a lack of care that to me is stunning, Itagaki however maligned he almost always put out work that had soul and attention to detail.

It makes me wonder how Devil's Third will turn out. It looked pretty over-ambitious and sloppy, but he did say it was super early form. Hopefully he isn't so limited in resources that he'll feel pressured to drop the levels of polish. I don't see Nintendo pushing deadline on him so there is at least that.

 

[Griss]

Based on DOA4, Itagaki was content to let the series die on the worst note possible. Such stagnation, that game represented.

One area where he's 100% right, though, is that the Team Ninja of today has no clue what made the old games so stylistically appealing. The graceful animation, the lovingly crafted but completely incidental environmental details, the music - the series really lost that "vitality" he's talking about that made the fighting feel...alive. And yet ironically enough, it's the best it's been in years, when judged purely on its mechanics as a fighting game.

Doesn't feel like it has any love put into it anymore, though. Guess some bad has to come with the good.

That's a really good take on it. I enjoyed DoA4, but it was horribly flawed and barely pushed the series forward at all. I'm happy with DoA5 as it's by far the best DoA yet to play, even if it has lost a little bit of that special sauce.

Also, Itagaki obviously took the recipe for beautiful image quality with him when he left. As for characters, though, I do think they've done very well since DoA4. Most of the new characters are excellent.

It'll be interesting to see where they go with DoA6. If they were amitious it would have been announced already to compete with MK and Tekken 7 and the rest. Instead, they've been showing serious signs of complacency riding one game over three years with 4 versions and ludicrous amounts of DLC. I'm happy with the support for the game, but it has gone a bit too far at this stage, with really lazy fetish-wear etc. It also shouldn't have taken them over a year to port the game to next-gen. And with all that money they can't even improve some of the shocking ground textures or guarantee that there'll be AA? Man.

Oh well. Can't be perfect, I suppose. Just hope the netcode in Last Round is better.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

He's really quite insane....
DOA4 isbetter than DOA5..... as a fighting game, but he's hurt that they changed the direction of the story...but the story in DOA5 is so superior to any of the other games. DOA4 is really a hot mess in that regard, the new characters have no reason to be part of it and the older series vets are put into some weird scenarios...while others are just left hanging.
Dimensions reboot of 1-4 was great and really made for an enjoyable single player campaign.

 

[Pimpbaa]

I'm glad he ain't with Team Ninja anymore. They would probably be still using the same old basic models. I mean, the models looked outdated when DOA 3 came out. Still using them in DOA 4 was just embarrassing. DOA 5 is far from perfect however. The backgrounds are pretty bland and low quality. But the massive increase in quality of the models made it worth it. I really don't know why Itagaki was so hung up on keeping the models look the same throughout the years when like every other 3D fighting game developer tries to improve their models with each sequel.

Based on DOA4, Itagaki was content to let the series die on the worst note possible. Such stagnation, that game represented.

I agree with this. He said he cared about the series, but DOA4 made it feel like he really didn't. I really find it hard to believe that DOA5 lost more players than DOA4.

 

[Shinriji]

Same here. DOA4 is actually my least favorite in the series, in fact. I was much happier with DOA2 and DOA3. Itagaki leaving Team Ninja was great for DOA but awful for Ninja Gaiden.

DOA 4 and 3 was OK, but DOA2 Hardcore destroys both. Ninja Gaiden 2 was pretty inferior in every single way to Ninja Gaiden Black. Hope for the best with Devil's Third, but the E3 video was terrible.

 

[Vazra]

DOA 4 and 3 was OK, but DOA2 Hardcore destroys both. Ninja Gaiden 2 was pretty inferior in every single way to Ninja Gaiden Black. Hope for the best with Devil's Third, but the E3 video was terrible.

Ultimate 2 > Hardcore just because Hitomi. (and online I guess)

 

[R_thanatos]

i've bnought DOA5 twice ( vanilla and 2nd version ) and i plan to buy last round.
I honnestly disagree.

Just like you understood that you needed to go away, you must understand that with new blood comes new ideas ( that they tried with dimension even if i disagree with most of them )

DOA5 has many thing is disagree with , but the core gameplay is much much better than anything i've played with DOA3&4
And i say this as someone who doesn't even buy much dlc for this game.

 

[a Master Ninja]

Mechanically, DOA5 is better than DOA4. And the faces look way better. But look at the bullshit that came with it:

-annualized incremental releases like Street Fighter
-outrageously priced costume and creepy voyeur DLC
-a character that attempts to sexualize the body of a 10 year old girl

 

[ShinMaruku]

Um, pretty sure Capcom support more tournaments than Team Ninja. They're also at least as open to fans(read, actually asked fans for input when balancing the game).

Capcom this year is only looking at the capcom cup thing for support in DOA any major coming out they put it in the game announcement UI they always put money into the pot and they are at events where you can put in pointers. The reaosn why DOA5U was a better than vanillia was because of input people put in. They also would explain why they did things as they did. Team Ninja also released an alpha to their games for people to test I don't think you'd find much developers that would put out their stuff like that in a early state.


If they did what they did for DOA for Ninja Gaiden I'm sure Hayashi would set that game right. But Time will tell.

As to those who loved doa3 Itagaki did say that game was a mistake some of the things in that game he did not like. Which is why 4 came out the way it did.

 

[grap3fruitman]

DOA4 is better than DOA5..... as a fighting game

Disagree. Itagaki made it in DOA4 so that a player can escape basically any situation by literally mashing buttons. What's my incentive to attack if you can break everything? I'm just going to sit and hold everything. I don't hold DOA5 in much better regard as they didn't do enough to fix the issues but enough people seem content enough to play that game.

I remember the reaction to the DOA4 reveal at the Xbox 360 intro event being 'Huh, that's it?'

Yup. What a fun look back: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46919

Why does Itagaki sound so dramatic? He sounds like an anime character.

Because he is very dramatic.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Itagaki is a bell end.

We'll see how he's treated after devil's third comes out.

 

[leatherhat]

I think doa5 is better than, or at the very least as good as, the previous games. Now if new team ninja could get ng4 right we would be in the money.

 

[Emperor Bohe]

I dunno, DOA5 is way more balanced to play competitively than DOA4 was. I think he's more missed when it comes to Ninja Gaiden, because damn did that series fall off

 

[Skilletor]

Doa4 has the worst gameplay and stages in the series.

Itagaki is not missed.

 

[Castef]

I still think DOA4 is the best. Curious to try the new one for PS4/XB1.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I've played your DOA and NG games from the beginning Mr.Itagaki, and really, your just being bitter over not having your old status.

DOA5 is a very good game, and i play it daily. DOA5 might not have the best stages around or the best graphics of the time, but its still as polished gameplaywise as the rest of the series, infact, even more so IMO.

With you the series faced stagnation with the same basic doll character models over 7 years(1998 to 2005) and a completely unbalanced roster(alpha...) and spinoffs that made the game into a joke(volleyball..). If a shakeup in staff had to change the philosophy of DOA this much, so be it. As i said, Team Ninja as they are now aren't perfect, but your not the only one who can run a ship.

Yes NG3 was a critical and commercial failure and just an objectively bad game....but NG3RE does give me some hope for that franchise to make a comeback in the future at some point

 

[Skilletor]

Mechanically, DOA5 is better than DOA4. And the faces look way better. But look at the bullshit that came with it:

-annualized incremental releases like Street Fighter
-outrageously priced costume and creepy voyeur DLC
-a character that attempts to sexualize the body of a 10 year old girl

What's wrong with continued support?
Itagaki made doax

Got me on that last one. Hate marie Rose.

 

[GayForMaster]

Itagaki not being a dev on DOA5 is the best thing that could happen to that game. Probably the best DOA in the series since 2.

Definitely needed him still for NG3 tho.

Is this really true? DoA5 looks like its just pure fap material.

 

[Skilletor]

Is this really true? DoA5 looks like its just pure fap material.

Yeah, it's true. Maybe look up some tourney vids since it's been present at several majors the past few months .

 

[ShinMaruku]

Is this really true? DoA5 looks like its just pure fap material.

You should try the game rather than judging from how it looks. Because that name XD

 

[Inuhanyou]

Is this really true? DoA5 looks like its just pure fap material.

I hope we're not acting like DOA games were anything more than that. With DOA5, we actually get some man service too(not homosexual just appreciating the diversity), and an actual story that can be made sense of for once(even if it is pure nonsense and just reuse of the same locations over and over)

The loli character is only a concession to the fanbase of things Japan is now into. I have no doubt a Marie rose character would be in DOA with or without Itagaki there. Its no different from other forms of media

 

[grap3fruitman]

If the netcode is good on both next-gen versions of DOA5LR, can we come to a consensus on a platform to go for, GAF? I want to play with you guys. I might get annoyed with the game, but I'd like to give it a shot.

 

[Sayad]

Capcom this year is only looking at the capcom cup thing for support in DOA any major coming out they put it in the game announcement UI they always put money into the pot and they are at events where you can put in pointers. The reaosn why DOA5U was a better than vanillia was because of input people put in. They also would explain why they did things as they did. Team Ninja also released an alpha to their games for people to test I don't think you'd find much developers that would put out their stuff like that in a early state.

You make it sound like Capcom only supporting one event, Pro Tour include about 10 main events/majors, overall more than 40 events between ranking tournaments, exhibitions and online tournaments, and it ends with flying 16 players to the main event fully hosted by Capcom. It's bigger than what any other fighting games maker did for their community.
Also, almost every arcade first fighting game does arcade location tests, which is pretty much an alpha in all but name. But yea, console first FGs don't do it, and they usually suffer at launch because of that.

I agree with DOA5 being much better than Itagaki's DoAs. People criticizing post Itagaki DoA for perversion must be forgetting DoAX, lol.

 

[DR2K]

DOA5 had a ton more competition than DOA4 did releasing. It's also an infinitely better game than any other entry in the series. This Is A Team Ninja that listens and responds to all their fans and supports all its fans. You know that some of that string bikini DLC money goes? It goes to supporting local and tournament scenes.

I'm not sure why Ninja Gaiden 3 ended up so shit, but razors edge was in the right direction, hopefully NG4 follows the same path DOA5 did.

 

[ShinMaruku]

I was generally talking about sednign out a demo which is wider scope than a arcade test.

Capcom is hit and miss for me on one hand they got haunts and combofiend but on the other they say "We need more money" while always dropping and changing their plans when it blows up in their face without finding out why x failed (Oh DmC I will never forgive you capcom unless DMC is great again) They are better than SNK by far but that's because outside of making the game those dudes have no idea what the fuck they are doing (Another story)


As to people feeling put off by Marie Rose I think it's a Japanese thing and them trolling the fuck out of people. Because she's a great troll character.

If people really are syaing losing Itagaki made DOA more perverted, remember this man had a sexual harrassemnt suit where he was rumored to put his toungue in ladies mouths ( And my partial joke that Saya Iriee is his daughter who Misty is based on)

Spoiler

Misty is based off Mai Shiranui

 

[Dollar Yen]

- that's probably the first time I've ever heard Itagaki-sama not sound like a douche.

 

[Skilletor]

DOA5 had a ton more competition than DOA4 did releasing. It's also an infinitely better game than any other entry in the series. This Is A Team Ninja that listens and responds to all their fans and supports all its fans. You know that some of that string bikini DLC money goes? It goes to supporting local and tournament scenes.

I'm not sure why Ninja Gaiden 3 ended up so shit, but razors edge was in the right direction, hopefully NG4 follows the same path DOA5 did.

NR3RE's new characters feel a lot better than Hayabusa in the game. Kasumi is just so much fun. If they continue in the direction of RE, I think NG4 will be good.

I doubt they'll ever reach the heights of NGB, but that's not many action games do.

 

[eyeball_kid]

But let me be clear – there are a lot of things about DOA that only I know. To be honest I’m not sure if the current developers even understand the meaning behind the Team Ninja visual identity (the intro with the roaring sea rising into the clouds) that Matsui Hiroaki and I created.

That's a surprising statement. I would have assumed there was a Team Ninja "bible" that laid out the spirit and intent of the team. Certainly that something as core as the logo would be known to everyone there. Or at the least that Itagaki would have written such a document simply to make sure his legacy and the quality of Team Ninja was kept intact.

 

[Nintendojitsu]

Itagaki not being a dev on DOA5 is the best thing that could happen to that game. Probably the best DOA in the series since 2.

Blasphemy

 

[Skilletor]

Blasphemy

Truth.

DoA4 and his design decisions behind them make it one of the worst fighters I've ever played.

 

[ShinMaruku]

DOA5 had a ton more competition than DOA4 did releasing. It's also an infinitely better game than any other entry in the series. This Is A Team Ninja that listens and responds to all their fans and supports all its fans. You know that some of that string bikini DLC money goes? It goes to supporting local and tournament scenes.

I'm not sure why Ninja Gaiden 3 ended up so shit, but razors edge was in the right direction, hopefully NG4 follows the same path DOA5 did.

NR3RE's new characters feel a lot better than Hayabusa in the game. Kasumi is just so much fun. If they continue in the direction of RE, I think NG4 will be good.

I doubt they'll ever reach the heights of NGB, but that's not many action games do.

You guys should try the Hurricane pack. It was better than black.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

You guys should try the Hurricane pack. It was better than black.

we got some big Intercept fans here

 

[Skilletor]

You guys should try the Hurricane pack. It was better than black.

I thought intercept broke the game. I prefer NGB.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Loved intercept. It was me doing what I do with Momiji in DOA5u they attack is coming let them come at me and choose between life and death.

 

[Ninjimbo]

So is Razor's Edge worth playing? I can get it at a discount and I like the NG games a lot. I'm not an overly picky person so I can handle the occasional stupid thing as long as it has other good things going for it. I also want to play as those other characters.

 

[ShinMaruku]

I still play it. I got it on the cheap but I enjoy it. The new characters are great.

 

[Pachinko]

That's a surprising statement. I would have assumed there was a Team Ninja "bible" that laid out the spirit and intent of the team. Certainly that something as core as the logo would be known to everyone there. Or at the least that Itagaki would have written such a document simply to make sure his legacy and the quality of Team Ninja was kept intact.

You have to remember that he left on pretty bad terms and took about half the team with him. All that remained after he left really was some of the DOAX2 team and most the guys responsible for Ninja Gaiden Sigma on PS3. In other words, the yes men that just do whatever tecmo asks- porting their games over to platforms that can't even run them properly, monetizing the costumes in DOA, making a disgusting loli character in a game series known for titillation(so you literally can't even defend it at all).

For all the talk in this thread about DOA5 being the better game, why is it that it's not as fun to play then ? What made doa great in the past was it's exciting stages and ease of play, you could get into this game very quickly and any player could preform 90% of the moves and combos with minimal practice. It was intended for casual play.

Maybe DOA5 is a bit more capable as a tournament fighter but even that kind of goes against what the series was about. I'll admit , were it not for marie rose , I'd actually be very much ok with the entire roster, guest characters and even the new art direction (I've likened the current look to going from anime statues to real dolls)but the stage design in DOA5 is just awful. The addition of the "focus" attack to knock people down and through various levels slows the game down to much , it's not as spontaneous or as fun as simply getting knocked off a cliff like the older titles. In DOA2 you had an exciting fight in a blizzard with an ice cliff drop nearby to expand the stage. In DOA3 you got a snow covered tree filled forest with deforming snow under your feet ... doa5 ? uh let's have you fight on a boring ice flow somewhere and have some penguins in the background for some reason. I've ranted about DOA5's awful stages before, back when the game came out and the biggest problem is that half of them in the original version took place on a giant oil rig that was just a boring lump of steel. Even a stage that should be exciting - the fighting ring , is just flat out dull compared to the night club cage mage and wrestling ring stages in DOA3/4. Clearly the level designer is uninspired because they catered to that complaint by just adding back in stages from the old games rather than trying to make new ones again. Also, final gripe- how come the image quality and texture quality is so much worse than DOA4 ? The only reason I could think of is that DOA4 was a 360 game and DOA5 was a ps3 game ported to the 360. Ninja Gaiden 3 has similar issues.

 

[Sayad]

Razor's Edge isn't a masterpiece, but it's a fun game if you don't compare it to NG2 or Black, save for some brain dead boss designs.

 

[NeoGIF]

My only beef with the recent DOA games are the boring and square stages.

They need to go back to the awesome DOA2U type stages, as demonstrated in this video.

 

[Skilletor]

My only beef with the recent DOA games are the boring and square stages.

They need to go back to the awesome DOA2U type stages, as demonstrated in this video.

DoA2U has the best stages in the series.

 

[Degen]

wow... wow...

"all actors eventually age"

My only hope is that the door actually hit him in the ass on the way out

 

[SystemBug]

Yeah, some of the models look improved (more stylistically than anything), but I felt the graphics took a hit in DOA5 over DOA4.
Which is mind blowing considering how much older DOA4 was.

No. The characters model improved period.

 

[benzy]

You guys should try the Hurricane pack. It was better than black.

No, it made the game broken.

 

[ReBurn]

I've enjoyed 5 more than I enjoyed 4. I thought that the series needed a new perspective. I enjoyed the 3DS and Vita versions, too.

 

[cerulily]

Itagaki is perhaps the most pretentious and self-absorbed auteur of the japanese video game industry. Ninja Gaiden: Black feels like a fluke with how inconsistent a lot of sections in NG2 felt, and DOA just got worse after 2. Sans the update to better 3d movement in 3.

He has been dangling devil's third for the last 6 years and what i've seen of it seems really boring and derivative.

His entire fandom seems to stem purely from how good NG:black was.

my controversial opinion is, NGS:2 is better than NG2 simply because it removes a lot of crappy boss stuff and pointless busy work such as grinding karma for upgrades, kicking open doors, and charged bow shots. If it kept the blood and found a way to keep the enemy count up i am positive the reactions to it would have been better in general. I think the Oni twins is perhaps the most fun fight in the game.

 

[leroidys]

I was a huge Team Ninja fan when he was in charge, and now I think their name means nothing in particular... so I appreciate the loss of this guy. He also said opinionated shit that made everyone lose their shit. I loved that.



That was a very typically Itagaki comment. The very thought of touchscreen controls offends him.

I kind of appreciate that sentiment actually. Though I liked DOA Dimensions.

Well he made one of the best touch screen only games ever with Ninja Gaiden DS.

 

[Phoenix Fang]

DOA 5 is shit compared to DOA 4. I still play DOA 4 but have stopped playing DOA 5 two months after its release.

Itagaki and the other 30 members leaving Team Ninja is the worst thing that could have happen to Ninja Gaiden and DOA.

 

[è£ ç”²æ‚ªé¬¼æ‘æ­£]

His entire fandom seems to stem purely from how good NG:black was.

Yep. DOA4 was pure stagnation and NG2 came close to being unplayable garbage on higher difficulties due to the incredibly shitty encounter design.

Dude's legacy consists of one fucking game and he managed to tank said legacy rather efficiently.

 

[cerulily]

Well he made one of the best touch screen only games ever with Ninja Gaiden DS.

I believe Hayashi actually directed NGS

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1409600/

 

[ShinMaruku]

Hayashi also directed black but Itagaki was producer and was watching what he was doing.