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Ukraine/Russia conflict NEWS thread - Updates on the Ukrainian crisis.

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Man, Iceatcs almost literally said that one million of russian alcoholics can go to war to Ukraine for a bottle of vodka.

Yes, I deny it. And, yes, it is also not like that (as Iceatcs said) in Ukraine, where I've been a lot of times visiting my grandparents.

Did fascists try to kill you because you spoke Russian when you visited Ukraine?

Also it's disgusting that your grandparents are from Ukraine and you support a war in Ukraine. People who are dying right now in Ukraine are not different than your grandparents... :(
 

Outcome

Banned
Also it's disgusting that your grandparents are from Ukraine and you support a war in Ukraine. People who are dying right now in Ukraine are not different than your grandparents... :(

I never supported war. I said a few times in this thread that I wished it had never happened.
 
I never supported war. I said a few times in this thread that I wished it had never happened.

You also said repeatedly that you wanted separatists to take more territory. You were happy when they took airport. You posted videos of separatists shooting at Ukrainian soldiers. You implied that you didn't want Minsk talks to succeed. Where's your anti-war message? Saying that you wish it didn't start is not the same as wanting it to end.
 

Outcome

Banned
You also said repeatedly that you wanted separatists to take more territory. You were happy when they took airport. You posted videos of separatists shooting at Ukrainian soldiers. You implied that you didn't want Minsk talks to succeed. Where's your anti-war message? Saying that you wish it didn't start is not the same as wanting it to end.

Because I'm not relying onto miracles for this war to end. I'm talking about REAL possibilities for a piece. Putin changing his mind because dollar is too high for most russians to buy a new iPhone is a miracle. Seps settling down when all LNR and DNR territories are under their control - is a real possibility. Seps gettin all killed by UA or NATO becomes a miracle more and more. It is not my desire. It is facts which cannot be denied.
 

Mr Swine

Banned
I keep hearing more and more that if USA supports Ukraine with weapons then Russia will see it as an act of war. Does that hold any truth?
 
Because I'm not relying onto miracles for this war to end. I'm talking about REAL possibilities for a piece. Putin changing his mind because dollar is too high for most russians to buy a new iPhone is a miracle. Seps settling down when all LNR and DNR territories are under their control - is a real possibility. Seps gettin all killed by UA or NATO becomes a miracle more and more. It is not my desire. It is facts which cannot be denied.

What point are you making? Only Russia can stop this war. Separatist have no goal, you already sort of agreed with that. So you are supporting war because Putin is insane?
 

Engell

Member
I keep hearing more and more that if USA supports Ukraine with weapons then Russia will see it as an act of war. Does that hold any truth?

Can not imagine why/how they would see it as an act of war if they are not in Ukraine to start with...
 

Outcome

Banned
What point are you making? Only Russia can stop this war. Separatist have no goal, you already sort of agreed with that. So you are supporting war because Putin is insane?

Look at the history. Wars end when somebody wins.

Also, there is a saying, something like "better a horrible end that an endless horror".

I wish this war to end as soon as possible.

I do not consider scenario with seps taking all territory of DNR and LNR to be the worst. A possible US/NATO participating with further regular russian army invasion is a way worse and bloody. If you would like the NATOvsRU scenario, ok. But, I wish the fastest and the least bloody end. (expensive iPhones for russians cannot end this war).
 

chadskin

Member
Can not imagine why/how they would see it as an act of war if they are not in Ukraine to start with...

You know, these are all just concerned ethnic Russian citizens fighting against the oppressive fascist Kiev junta. Of course Russia must step in and help them out, they can't just let these fine folks in their tanks get murdered by the Obanazis.
 
Look at the history. Wars end when somebody wins.

Also, there is a saying, something like "better a horrible end that an endless horror".

I wish this war to end as soon as possible.

I do not consider scenario with seps taking all territory of DNR and LNR to be the worst. A possible US/NATO participating with further regular russian army invasion is a way worse and bloody. If you would like the NATOvsRU scenario, ok. But, I wish the fastest and bloodless end. (expensive iPhones for russians cannot end this war).

Russian people can end this war.

You know what the difference between dictatorship and not dictatorship? In a normal country you can love your country and not support you leader. There plenty of people in the US who are patriots but don't support Obama. There plenty of people in Ukraine who are patriots and don't support Poroshenko. There's almost no people in Russia who don't support Putin. And those there there are are not considered patriots.

Ukraine will take this hit for you guys today, but at some point Russians will have to stop supporting their corrupt government with Putin at it's helm. What's the downside of supporting Putin? Take a look at history. What was the last time the dictatorship ended up well? If you think Russia supported "civil" war in Ukraine is bad look at demographics in Russia...
 

kess

Member
Look at the history. Wars end when somebody wins.

Also, there is a saying, something like "better a horrible end that an endless horror".

I wish this war to end as soon as possible.

I do not consider scenario with seps taking all territory of DNR and LNR to be the worst. A possible US/NATO participating with further regular russian army invasion is a way worse and bloody. If you would like the NATOvsRU scenario, ok. But, I wish the fastest and the least bloody end. (expensive iPhones for russians cannot end this war).

Ukraine has been asking for UN peacekeepers in Eastern Ukraine since last April but any and all action has been continually blocked by Russia.
 

maharg

idspispopd
Look at the history. Wars end when somebody wins.

Also, there is a saying, something like "better a horrible end that an endless horror".

I wish this war to end as soon as possible.

This is always a convenient position to have when you're on the side with the biggest guns.
 

Nivash

Member
Look at the history. Wars end when somebody wins.

Also, there is a saying, something like "better a horrible end that an endless horror".

I wish this war to end as soon as possible.

I do not consider scenario with seps taking all territory of DNR and LNR to be the worst. A possible US/NATO participating with further regular russian army invasion is a way worse and bloody. If you would like the NATOvsRU scenario, ok. But, I wish the fastest and the least bloody end. (expensive iPhones for russians cannot end this war).

I think it's naive to assume that making "DNR" and "LNR" permanent would in any way lead to a lasting peace. Ukraine will never recognize them and neither will the rest of the world - they'll end up in the same situation as Abkhazia and South Ossetia: breakaway territories only recognized by each other and Russia, which they are completely dependent on. And I might remind you that despite Abkhazia and South Ossetia having been in this limbo since the early 90s their status still led to the 2008 Georgian War.

As for their recognition, this isn't even a case of "the west is not the world" or "what about the BRICs?". Breakout territories are not recognized by anyone, period. Recognizing them is considered anathema because it promotes unlawful separatism. Well, this is not completely true to be honest - apart from Russia, South Ossetia and Abkhazia were also recognized by Venezuela and Nicaragua in connection with the 2008 war (in diplomatic plays towards Russia, no doubt) and, for unclear reasons, by Naurau in 2009. But as far as the rest of the world goes, they don't exist and this is unlikely change anytime soon unless the rumors about Russia simply annexing them turn out to be true.
 

Kabouter

Member
Countries like Nauru are completely dependent on foreign aid economically, and their recognition of nations can thus simply be bought. A nation with 90% unemployment is not really going to be neutral when someone offers money :/.
 

kess

Member
Ukraine run by 'miserable' Jews: rebel chief

Ukraine's pro-Russian rebel chief on Monday branded the country's leaders "miserable" Jews in an apparent anti-Semitic jibe.

Alexander Zakharchenko, leader of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, claimed that Kiev's pro-Western leaders were "miserable representatives of the great Jewish people".

"I can't remember a time when Cossacks were led by people who have never held a sword in their hands," Zakharchenko told a press conference in the eastern rebel stronghold of Donetsk, in a reference to Ukraine's nationalist forebears, the Cossacks.
 

chadskin

Member
Tracking the Weapons Used to Fight Ukraine’s War
It is the central question of the continuing civil war in Ukraine: to what degree is Russia supplying the weapons that are helping antigovernment forces sustain their secessionist movement?

Nic R. Jenzen-Jones, the director of ARES, was able to positively identify 20 weapons systems in Ukraine that had never previously been exported from their country of origin. Nineteen of those came from Russia, and one was from Poland. He calls these “flag items” because they can be clearly tied to outside nations.

But the report also draws conclusions that counter the widely accepted narrative that the insurgents depend on Russian matériel.

By analyzing photographs of captured ordnance, ARES also determined that existing stockpiles of weapons were the single biggest source of military goods used by pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine.

http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/02/tracking-the-weapons-used-to-fight-ukraines-war/
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
Countries like Nauru are completely dependent on foreign aid economically, and their recognition of nations can thus simply be bought. A nation with 90% unemployment is not really going to be neutral when someone offers money :/.

Hence Palau's bizarre anti-Palestinian crusade.
 

antonz

Member
Im expecting Russia to launch a full scale offensive shortly. The "call up" of 100,000 people for the Rebel Army is clearly cover for a mass Russia incursion.

I mean even when Strelkov himself was leading the charge he constantly bitched about the fact they could not get the locals willing to join their side and fight. So suddenly they can muster a large army?

Its the same tactic they tried when they went after the Ukrainian Tank base that was filled with old broken down wrecks. They wanted the base to try and twist the narrative to explain where they suddenly got all these tanks. The attack failed and they never got the base but they used the Russian tanks anyways fooling no one.
 
Im expecting Russia to launch a full scale offensive shortly. The "call up" of 100,000 people for the Rebel Army is clearly cover for a mass Russia incursion.

I mean even when Strelkov himself was leading the charge he constantly bitched about the fact they could not get the locals willing to join their side and fight. So suddenly they can muster a large army?

Its the same tactic they tried when they went after the Ukrainian Tank base that was filled with old broken down wrecks. They wanted the base to try and twist the narrative to explain where they suddenly got all these tanks. The attack failed and they never got the base but they used the Russian tanks anyways fooling no one.
I wonder what would happen if Russia invaded full force and made it to Kiev.

That's where things would get REALLY testy for the West.
 

Fiktion

Banned
The EU would probably step in, Poland being the first to move. There's no love lost among the old Warsaw Pact vassals.

I doubt it, I think they'd just fortify their own borders. Poland is scared as fuck of Russia, they're not going to go to war just to save Ukraine.
 

antonz

Member
I wouldn't say Poland is scared really. They were the ones calling for military intervention from the get go. They wont act alone but you can bet if they get allies they will get the ball rolling. Poland has pretty much the largest Tank force in Europe and has been investing heavily in modernization and capability.

Clearly they would be overwhelmed by a massive Russian push but that alone would set off a ton of treaty issues and WWIII
 

Yamauchi

Banned
Regrettably, it appears the encirclement of Debaltsevo by the Novorossian Armed Forces is complete and that a blood-bath may now ensue.

This war is spiraling out of control. With 'mobilizations' on both sides, we could soon see hundreds of thousands of soldiers fighting a traditional land war (as far as casualties are concerned, the worst kind) in eastern Ukraine.
 

Doczu

Member
I wouldn't say Poland is scared really. They were the ones calling for military intervention from the get go. They wont act alone but you can bet if they get allies they will get the ball rolling. Poland has pretty much the largest Tank force in Europe and has been investing heavily in modernization and capability.

Clearly they would be overwhelmed by a massive Russian push but that alone would set off a ton of treaty issues and WWIII
Yes, Poland was calling for intervention from the start, but now when things became very, very delicate the politicians changed their reasoning. Quite propably the intervention would have spiraled into land war, as Russia would have just said "fuck it, land forces roll in".
Regrettably, it appears the encirclement of Debaltsevo by the Novorossian Armed Forces is complete and that a blood-bath may now ensue.

This war is spiraling out of control. With 'mobilizations' on both sides, we could soon see hundreds of thousands of soldiers fighting a traditional land war (as far as casualties are concerned, the worst kind) in eastern Ukraine.

Any sources? This info is being told daily, but never with a source to these claims.
 

demolitio

Member
Do you guys see much of this conflict being reported on the news anymore. I know the networks have short-attention spans and don't care really about anything other than getting their views, but it's amazing how much you can read on the internet yet most people I know thought this was pretty much over since they haven't heard about it again.

I don't watch network news, just find it depressing that it's not mentioned much. They should be reminding people that shit like this is going on and realize why you can't be complacent. I just hope Merkel was serious about gaining more independence for Germany when it comes to military operations because there's too much uncertainty in the world to just assume everything will work out peacefully when you're dealing with someone with a lot bigger aspirations than Ukraine.

Waging economic warfare can be effective, but can also make things escalate even more since war is sadly a good distraction from the issues at home and can get people working while forgetting WHY they're working and for what. With a good propaganda machine, you can make nationalism trump any other problem you're facing and we've seen it too often in the past and still can hear a bump in rhetoric when a country is facing big domestic issues.

Yes, Poland was calling for intervention from the start, but now when things became very, very delicate the politicians changed their reasoning. Quite propably the intervention would have spiraled into land war, as Russia would have just said "fuck it, land forces roll in".

I think Poland was wanting to show a strong hand and part of that was a bluff like what usually happened during the Cold War, but you can tell they remember the past and don't plan on going back down that road. They've been one of the happier stories in Eastern Europe and are spending more in defense than most NATO nations (which of course is another issue considering how much Europe relies on a few of the NATO nations militarily which is a bad idea) and they've been one of the most vocal nations when it comes to this conflict because they know what's at stake similar to previous wars.

I'm sure they were told by some of their allies to tone it down so they didn't give Russia an excuse to escalate the conflict but I'm sure they realized they didn't want to poke the bear too much. It says a lot that they were wanting a U.S. base in their country and a large NATO presence as an extra layer of protection from Russia, especially with how Putin views territory apparently...lol.

I hope their futuristic tank is the real deal since it looks like it's straight out of Starship Troopers but the fact that they're trying to develop their own says a lot. You gotta admire them and their determination to keep their independence.
 

Doczu

Member
Do you guys see much of this conflict being reported on the news anymore. I know the networks have short-attention spans and don't care really about anything other than getting their views, but it's amazing how much you can read on the internet yet most people I know thought this was pretty much over since they haven't heard about it again.
Yes, i've noticed the same. Nowadays the only news that gets airtime in Poland is when a bus with civilians gets attacked, or something really big happens. The daily fightings, situation of the civilians is almost never mentioned. News got old, people don't want to see war on their tv's (the sad truth).

I think Poland was wanting to show a strong hand and part of that was a bluff like what usually happened during the Cold War, but you can tell they remember the past and don't plan on going back down that road. They've been one of the happier stories in Eastern Europe and are spending more in defense than most NATO nations (which of course is another issue considering how much Europe relies on a few of the NATO nations militarily which is a bad idea) and they've been one of the most vocal nations when it comes to this conflict because they know what's at stake similar to previous wars.

I'm sure they were told by some of their allies to tone it down so they didn't give Russia an excuse to escalate the conflict but I'm sure they realized they didn't want to poke the bear too much. It says a lot that they were wanting a U.S. base in their country and a large NATO presence as an extra layer of protection from Russia, especially with how Putin views territory apparently...lol.

I hope their futuristic tank is the real deal since it looks like it's straight out of Starship Troopers but the fact that they're trying to develop their own says a lot. You gotta admire them and their determination to keep their independence.

Of course they were told to rethink what they were saying - being a part of NATO means that you just can't make decisions yourself or try to push the coalition into conflict, especially with Russia.
Yes, the sad history of our country shows that any significant movemenet in the east may be taken as a threat to our country (and rightfully so), so that is no surprise we spend quite a lot on our army.

And thanks for 'mirin.
 

Outcome

Banned
Stephen Cohen, the Professor emeritus of Russian studies and politics at New York University and Princeton University, in the interview to democracynow.org:
All right, back up. What has Kiev called since April its military operation in the east? An anti-terrorist operation. Literally, those are the words. If I declare that you are a terrorist—not a rebel, not a political opponent, but you are a terrorist—I don’t talk to you, I kill you. And that is what Kiev has been doing, with American support. It’s been destroying the civilian centers of eastern Ukraine. Have the rebels fought back? Have they killed Ukrainian army members? Absolutely. But what in the world are we doing supporting a government that’s bombing civilians? And, by the way, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, many other organizations have now said these are war crimes. And yet, the American government sees no evil.

What you guys think? Another Putin paid troll in the New York University and Princeton University?
 
Stephen Cohen, the Professor emeritus of Russian studies and politics at New York University and Princeton University, in the interview to democracynow.org:


What you guys think? Another Putin paid troll in the New York University and Princeton University?

Most likely.

He 'seems' not very well informed so his conclusions are misaligned as well.
The "rebels" came into existence because "there is a junta in Kiev so we must fight it with tanks". The "rebels" where the ones coming at the rest of the Ukrainians with violence, simply because they didn't like the people that seized power in Kiev.

The "rebels" didn't want talking or democratic elections, they wanted violence from the get go. Naming them 'terrorists' is not far from what they truly are in the first place.

Also, the comment about "bombardments killing civilians", he should at least mentioned that both sides have done that. In fact, OSCE reported on the "rebels" bombardments killing civilians several times.
 
Moscow (AFP) - A Russian mother of seven accused of treason for allegedly informing Ukraine about possible troop movements told AFP on Wednesday she felt as if she had "returned from hell" after two weeks in jail.

"Arrest, detention, the putting on of handcuffs...I was in shock," Svetlana Davydova, who was released from custody late Tuesday, told AFP by phone from her home in Vyazma, west of Moscow.

"I felt as if I returned from hell."

Davydova was accused of high treason after she called the Ukrainian embassy last April with information on possible Russian troop movements.

She was arrested on January 21 by a group of men in black uniform who burst into her apartment.

The 36-year-old, who was still breastfeeding a two-and-a-half-month-old daughter, was held in the high-security Lefortovo jail in Moscow.

The harsh treatment of the woman and her family sparked an outcry in Moscow, where rights activists said her prosecution marked a new low in a campaign to stifle dissent.

Davydova was released Tuesday night after more than 50,000 people, including Oscar-nominated director Andrei Zvyagintsev and Natalya Solzhenitsyna, widow of Nobel literature laureate Alexander Solzhenitsyn, petitioned President Vladimir Putin to let the woman return to her children.
http://news.yahoo.com/russian-mother-accused-treason-returns-prison-hell-113533200.html

I don't understand. Putin keeps telling me that Russia has nothing to do with what is going on in Ukraine. So how can this be treason? I'm so confused.
 

Nivash

Member
http://news.yahoo.com/russian-mother-accused-treason-returns-prison-hell-113533200.html

I don't understand. Putin keeps telling me that Russia has nothing to do with what is going on in Ukraine. So how can this be treason? I'm so confused.

While it's pretty obviously connected to what Russia's is up to in Ukraine, she did technically leak sensitive military information to a foreign power. She might be morally in the right but legally speaking, it's perfectly possible that what she did can actually be classified as high treason in Russia.
 

antonz

Member
Good article that pretty much concludes like I have that Russia will have a large scale invasion of Ukraine in days.
http://www.interpretermag.com/moscow-readying-a-massive-russian-invasion-of-ukraine-golts-says/

3,000 Russian troops being moved from Tajikistan to the Ukraine Border among many other troop movements.

Rebels stated they would have their 100,000 Man army within 10 days. So that might give a good window of when Russian troop movements across the border happen.
 

Guileless

Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
What you guys think? Another Putin paid troll in the New York University and Princeton University?

"Cohen is a septuagenarian, old-school leftist who has carried on the mental habits of decades of anti-anti-communism seamlessly into a new career of anti-anti-Putinism." http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/03/pathetic-lives-of-putins-american-dupes.html

By the way, it's not that hard to find tenured faculty at prestigious universities who criticize American policy. This is America, comrade. You can get rich doing that.
 

demolitio

Member
And thanks for 'mirin.

More of a deep respect since I lived by a big Polish immigrant neighborhood in Cleveland and had an adopted grandma of sorts that told us about the struggles and made me appreciate things a lot more.

Just one of the few nations out there that still remembers the past and actively tries to warn people of it happening again including their talks with the U.S. about it.

Well, that and I like the Polish restaurants here so there's that. :p
 

Outcome

Banned
No outcry, no "RIP" from even those in this thread, no nothing. Aren't civilians just civilians? really unfortunate.

As long as it is not proved that pro-russian rebels are responsible for that, pretty much nobody cares in this thread. Yesterday 8 more people get killed in Donetsk due to random shelling of this city from the side where Ukraine forces still are (rebels report).

Again, nobody cares since it is not proved that it is rebels who shelled themselves. If proved, then there will be a lot of fuck-putin stuff and RIP-for-putler's-victims stuff. All victims caused by Ukraine forces here are considered acceptable, no matter what Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch would say.

UPDATE ON NEWS:

(Reuters) - German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Francois Hollande will meet Ukraine's Petro Poroshenko in Kiev on Thursday and Vladimir Putin in Moscow on Friday to discuss how to stop the violence in eastern Ukraine.

(Reuters) - French President Francois Hollande and German Chancellor Angela Merkel will travel to Kiev on Thursday and Moscow on Friday for top level talks to make a new proposal to try to solve the Ukraine crisis, Hollande said on Thursday.
...
"Together with Angela Merkel we have decided to take a new initiative," Hollande told a news conference. "We will make a new proposal to solve the conflict which will be based on Ukraine's territorial integrity."
 
Good article that pretty much concludes like I have that Russia will have a large scale invasion of Ukraine in days.
http://www.interpretermag.com/moscow-readying-a-massive-russian-invasion-of-ukraine-golts-says/

3,000 Russian troops being moved from Tajikistan to the Ukraine Border among many other troop movements.

Rebels stated they would have their 100,000 Man army within 10 days. So that might give a good window of when Russian troop movements across the border happen.

What's the endgame, another big influx as in September, and a quick push to the provincial borders before withdrawing and leaving it (mostly) to the locals again?
 

antonz

Member
What's the endgame, another big influx as in September, and a quick push to the provincial borders before withdrawing and leaving it (mostly) to the locals again?

They need the entire regions for both Donetsk and Luhansk if they want to effectively breakaway. So it would likely be a massive offensive to push Ukraine out of the 2 regions then start the whole frozen conflict zone.

Putin just signed the Cooperation agreement with the region in Georgia that Russia broke off.

Hollande and Merkel rushing to Kyiv today which is at the sametime John Kerry just landed likely suggests a big attempt at trying to dissuade Russia before escalation on both sides. The call to arm Ukraine is getting loud from all circles. Even Obamas new candidate for defense secretary says he is in the arm Ukraine camp.

France and Germany likely trying to get something going to prevent arming of Ukraine.
 
As long as it is not proved that pro-russian rebels are responsible for that, pretty much nobody cares in this thread. Yesterday 8 more people get killed in Donetsk due to random shelling of this city from the side where Ukraine forces still are (rebels report).

Again, nobody cares since it is not proved that it is rebels who shelled themselves. If proved, then there will be a lot of fuck-putin stuff and RIP-for-putler's-victims stuff. All victims caused by Ukraine forces here are considered acceptable, no matter what Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch would say.

UPDATE ON NEWS:

When Russia sponsored rebels are guilty you are the only one jumping in saying that Ukraine did it. No matter how unlikely it is.

In this case it's really unclear what happened, so I'm not going to jump in and try to convince you of something. I'm not going to trust bullshit "rebel" report either.

And all victims can be blamed on Putin. If not for that piece of shit non of the conflict would be happening.
 

chadskin

Member
Interesting insight into the Russian position (bolded):

Poroshenko hosted the European leaders for dinner in Kiev, and said the meeting gave “hope for a cease-fire,” according to the presidential website. The contents of the Hollande-Merkel plan are being kept secret. A French official said that while new sanctions aren’t currently on the agenda, they can’t be ruled out. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because he’s not authorized to talk to the press.

The proposal follows a plan put forward by Putin, that, according to a Western diplomat who spoke on the condition of anonymity, advocates creating a territory similar to the frozen-conflict areas of Abkhazia or Transnistria -- breakaway provinces of Georgia and Moldova that enjoy Russian patronage.

The offer backs away from a pact agreed on Sept. 5 in Minsk, Belarus that calls for a cease-fire, creating a buffer zone between the adversaries, withdrawing heavy weapons from the front line, monitoring Ukraine’s border with Russia, and other actions, the diplomat said.

Following a meeting with Kerry, Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk said Russia must adhere to the agreement before a new truce can be forged and Ukraine insists on maintaining its territorial integrity.

At the same time, Putin and other officials are losing faith that their preferred outcome -- greater autonomy for the Donbass region within a federal Ukraine -- will come to pass, according to three people familiar with the matter who asked not to be identified because they aren’t allowed to speak publicly about the discussions. It’s increasingly likely the rebel-held regions will break away, according to three people familiar with the matter, they said.

“I don’t see a compromise,” Joerg Forbrig, senior program director for central and eastern Europe at the German Marshall Fund of the U.S. said by phone. “Ukraine will accept nothing less than the demilitarization and full administrative control over the east, and won’t accept the federalization that the Russians are demanding.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ande-to-visit-russia-ukraine-to-defuse-crisis
 
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