"how dare you charge for your work" isnt being pro consumer.
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Skyrim Workshop Now Supports Paid Mods
- Thread starter Sendou
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"how dare you charge for your work" isnt being pro consumer.
If you have a good argument to make for it, please do. Because all I've seen is how exploitative it is for naive users and sucker mod creators.
Something besides the lazy "vote with your wallet" tripe.
Well, at least you've learned that you don't have to tone down your intelligence around us embarrassing folk.
He already made plenty of good arguments. Go read them.
Fotheringay
Member
There are countless reasons provided in this thread that are legitimate cause for concern beyond "oh no, my mods wont be free no more". If Valve wanted to provide a marketplace for thoroughly vetted mods, that were guaranteed to provide update support and had zero questions over authorship, then you'd see far less vitriol. As it stands now, one single mod creator (SKSE) could wreak absolute havoc on their entire business plan. This feels like a rushed attempt to squeeze money out of an untapped revenue stream, not a positive shift towards creating a fair venue for mod developers to earn a living.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
valve making a bundle of shitty mods and having to pull one because it used someone else's code is embarassing
early acces paid mods are embarassing
25% cut for creators is embarassing
this thread is a normal reaction anyone would have that are suddenly faced with paying for something that has always been freely available
i have read this entire topic. dont give your doomsday conspiracy scenarios that much credit, they arent good points.
I mean, that's fine and all, but I'm not going to be happy that one of my favorite game franchises is going to go down the shitter because Valve and Bethesda/Zenimax wanted to profit off work they aren't doing.
Some of us care about this hobby beyond the amount of money we spend on it.
That's the genius of this whole thing. Valve and Bethesda are giving these modders a quarter on the dollar despite contributing nothing other than a platform and can spin it to people who don't understand the context as "supporting the modders". It's like the gaming version of Tidal.
only if that anyone lacked any actual experience at the profession at hand
superseohyun
Member
what if they already bought it?
His arguments are for charging for mods in general, which I'm down with if that floats your boat.
This system Valve has setup, on the other hand, is an exploitative scam.
in other words the vast majority of people you expect to pay you.
Mavromatis
Member
I'm not sure about the future of them since now they have to give bank and tax info to Steam. Maybe they'll find a way around but I assume that they'll move to Nexus and others where the entry barrier looks lower when possible.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Well, they do say ignorance is bliss.
then you should care about the ability of those who actually create to be compensated.
your hobby ceases to be without people like me.
So you're going to sell all that blood, sweat, and tears for $0.25 on the dollar? Sad.
Consumers are upset that a move is being made that benefits the end consumer in absolutely no way. And they're voicing their opinions on a message board dedicated to the discussion of the video game industry.
The fucking nerve of some people, right?
you mean the same majority that already isnt paying me and pretending their threat of continuing to not pay me holds any weight at all?
You act like this is the only way people who make mods can make money off them.
Like there aren't dozens of platforms for people to donate or contribute to projects.
Oh get over yourself, modders managed just fine without any compensation before - what's suddenly changed now? It's just a hobby for most, if you want to use modding as a foundation for a professional game dev career then that's great, but not everyone is in the same situation. And yes, the 25% is an insult and exploiting the modders.
nephilimdj
Member
Valve rolling in 100s of millions due to buying free mod IP (DOTA & Team Fortress) then now claiming mods are so undervalued that they only deserve 25%
Its crazy
Its crazy
...their benefit is that they get what they pay for.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
you'll have to pardon me for not really giving a shit about your personal stake in all this right now, i just don't like the precedent this is setting and the implications for the future of Steam here.
if you're happy with it, be happy with it. tossing around buzzwords like "entitled gamers" isn't really helping the thread.
Yes, but I don't know maybe going around calling those people names might just get them to change their mind and open their wallets to you. After all that must be why I see developers shouting "hey you entitled fucks pay me" all the time.
because we have been demanding this for years.
the irony of being told to "get over myself" because i want to be compensated for my work.
Probably because paying for something that is going to get broken with pretty much every update (and no guarantee of ever being fixed), can be broken by any other mod that is also paid for (can't wait to choose to between several mods i've paid for that suddenly become incompatible when they are updated especially since workshop automatically updates!), and can be abandoned at anytime (hope the mod creator doesn't get tired of the game / mod and stop working on it) seems to be a very bad deal for consumers.
Not to mention all of the legal problems that are going to arise since so many mods use parts of others.
And then you have the issue of the mod creator getting very little of the money.
Serious question, because I'm unfamiliar with your work. Have you made any attempts to monetize what you do?
Who's the "we"? Some modders' union I wasn't aware of? Bigger names than you have already spoken against this whole thing.
my mod is free. we have been talking about selling it for a long time now.
i do full time vr development. it is my career.
Why haven't you attempted to monetize it?
crazyrabbits
Banned
I like how you posted your response to me even though I pointed out several things afterwards (like the fact that Nexus already has buttons for people to donate directly to content creators) and blew off the statements I was trying to make.
I'm going to ask you again: what benefit does paid Steam Workshop mods have for consumers?
Ease of use? Not really. The Steam workshop is gimped insofar as interface/usability goes.
Earning revenue? You can already do the same on Nexus via donations (and all that money goes directly to you, not split with the publisher) or directly on a site you make. And that's not even getting into the shitty monthly payment schedule/minimum earnings debacle.
Constant updates? Wishful thinking, and nothing about this service has me convinced that creators will continue to update regularly or address broken mods, and Valve has thrown its hands up and shrugged.
Copyright issues/profiting off someone else's work? All over the place. I'm not going to rehash it further.
In the same vein as TF2/DOTA2? Not a chance. Far more variation outside of hats/items and a far greater potential for the system to be exploited.
At this point, you just need to stop posting. You're embarrassing yourself more than anything else.
Which heretofore they've gotten for free. So that's not a benefit. How are you not getting this? This is two major game corporations tapping into a revenue source that has previously existed outside the business model as a purely fan-driven community for the betterment of the game. This new venture is decidedly anti-consumer. So people are justifiably upset at the precedent this sets and the further implications of it.
How are you not getting this?
they get the item they pay for. there doesnt need to be any further justification.
So your first foray into monetizing your mod is one where you immediately sign off on saying goodbye to 75% of the profit?
well it isnt free any more. and whether or not something is free isnt up to the consumer.
crazyrabbits
Banned
Too bad. That's not good enough.
The fact that you're blindly parroting this and not even bothering to respond without resorting to canned lines is telling.
Fotheringay
Member
Your style of debating leaves much to be desired. I don't have a single problem paying for a mod that's of stand-out quality. I've donated money to several Minecraft mod pack creators over the years, and if something like Falskaar was 5-10 bucks I wouldn't have blinked to help support the creator. Your personal monetary struggles don't even apply to most of the qualms raised by people in this thread.
A
A More Normal Bird
Unconfirmed Member
How many mods have you published for Bethesda titles? One of the key points of divergence in this discussion seems to be between those who view this as simply an opportunity for mod creators to earn money (beyond donations), and those who are actually somewhat familiar/involved with the Bethesda modding scene and are both aware of how it is a wretched hive of scum and villianry than cannot be compared to many other mod scenes and are wary of the many complications that could emerge because of it (and some already have).
says the person selling the mod.
i cant believe you are so warped that goods in exchange for money isnt a proper values propositon. it is the basis of commerce.
Mavromatis
Member
What is sad is that he can't sell it even at that price. Since there is no paid items workshop for that game. But if there were I assume most of this thread won't be his customers.
Right, I don't think I would have been upset if this was introduced properly in the next iteration of an ES game. As it stands, it seems to me a blatant cash grab from Beth and Steam from a game that isn't making so much money on anymore, all for virtually no effort on their part.
Firstly, as others have said, there doesn't appear to be a solid system in place to hold content creators responsible for stuff they make through iterations of the game.
More importantly, there is a failure to provide a superior alternative modding experience. Using the Nexus client is generally preferable anyway to ensure mod compatibility, etc. Exclusivity becomes the main, and really, only selling point. Zero effort has been put into anything beyond the infrastructure to make more dollars.
Moreover, the amount that mod creators make is a pittance compared to the overall sum, further lending credence to the idea that it isn't so much about supporting content creators as it is lining Valve and Beth's pockets. I'm reading somewhere that you won't see a cent of it until the content you provide makes $400 (of which you would get $100). I would say it is more reflective of greed on their part more than anything.
If, for example, they had announced this system for the next ES game, with functions in place for inter-mod support, mod creator accountability, and a greater (i.e. more than 50%) share of the profits to the people who add value to the game that would otherwise not exist, I would be less hostile, and even welcoming to the idea.
Firstly, as others have said, there doesn't appear to be a solid system in place to hold content creators responsible for stuff they make through iterations of the game.
More importantly, there is a failure to provide a superior alternative modding experience. Using the Nexus client is generally preferable anyway to ensure mod compatibility, etc. Exclusivity becomes the main, and really, only selling point. Zero effort has been put into anything beyond the infrastructure to make more dollars.
Moreover, the amount that mod creators make is a pittance compared to the overall sum, further lending credence to the idea that it isn't so much about supporting content creators as it is lining Valve and Beth's pockets. I'm reading somewhere that you won't see a cent of it until the content you provide makes $400 (of which you would get $100). I would say it is more reflective of greed on their part more than anything.
If, for example, they had announced this system for the next ES game, with functions in place for inter-mod support, mod creator accountability, and a greater (i.e. more than 50%) share of the profits to the people who add value to the game that would otherwise not exist, I would be less hostile, and even welcoming to the idea.
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
krej has succesfully convinced me itt to never ever pay money for a mod
then dont buy it. you arent entitled to jack shit.
You can sell those goods for money right now, and have been able to for years. This is nothing new.
this extends beyond bethesda titles and no, several official tools used to prohibit monetization.
Clearly. But to act as though people have no right to voice their displeasure without being labeled as entitled is just condescending and antagonistic.
What if the government decided food stamps no longer cover soft drinks, snacks, sweets, or anything except for fruits, vegetables, bread, meat, and water. Should people have no right to complain? It's not covered anymore, them's the rules!
crazyrabbits
Banned
Let's be honest here. Neither are you.
You've come into this thread and continually whined about your lot in life, parroting nonsensical statements that boil down to "this is just the way it is - suck it up", you have an incredibly abrasive manner about you and you have no interest in debating or talking to people rationally. I've already pointed out to you previously that I have no problem supporting projects or products (free or otherwise) that I deem to be good uses of my time, and have done so multiple times previously.
At this point, this isn't crazyrabbits talking to you. It's Alex. You need to find a different career if it's causing you this much stress and anger, because it's just not worth it. Especially not over a lopsided argument on a message board. I would never get into a career like mod development if I knew I was setting myself up for continual disappointment.
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