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Polyphony needs to step up their game with GT7

Jibbed

Member
Note: I do use Forza for points of comparison in this thread as its GT's most direct competitor; that does not mean however that I think one franchise is hugely superior over the other, nor do I want this to turn in to a fanboy face-off focusing purely on visuals.

600px-Gran_turismo_series_logo.svg.png


Now, before we even think about GT's journey on the PS3, we need to acknowledge THE driving game of the generation prior... Gran Turismo 4. 700+ cars from 80 manufacturers, 51 tracks, road and rally racing, huge physics and graphical upgrades over its predecessor, innovations such as B-spec mode, etc. I think most people can agree that the series probably peaked here, and it still holds up great to this day.

So, Gran Turismo 5. And 6 for that matter. As someone who has played both extensively I've realised that 6 is essentially GT5 V2.0, but in my opinion it was all a bit too little, too late. Both titles - although 6 did right a lot of 5's wrongs - suffer from a distinct quantity over quality issue (why 1000+ cars seemed like a good idea when almost 800 were PS2 models is beyond me), and the same recurring shortcomings* which games such as Forza are excelling with are really starting to make Gran Turismo seem like a relic of a generation long passed.

*Speaking of, here's what we still find (or don't in a lot of cases) in Gran Turismo 6. A game released in December 2013 after 5 Forza titles, and countless competing racing games, simulators, etc...

- Cars that almost unanimously sound like vacuum cleaners
- Terrible AI, that can be conquered by ramming out of the way
- No form of livery editor / creator
- Lack of visual car modifications beyond wheels / wings
- Poor contact / crash physics
- Lack of significant damage modelling, visual and performance-based
- No car setup sharing
- Them bloody load times

Gran Turismo still does a lot of things right, don't get me wrong. The depth is insane. The driving 'feel' - which is a huge factor for those who take this seriously - is quite frankly unparalleled on consoles. You want all the cars in the world? It has most. Tracks? Tons! Thankfully the online communities in 5 and 6 have served the series well too.

However, even as a long-time fan who sat around doing nothing but playing the shit out of Gran Turismo back in the day on my OG PS1, I can't help but feel that the series has never really moved on from the heyday of GT4. And it feels a little complacent. A bit old and tedious, maybe. It's definitely refined, and beautiful even on hardware that's seen the best part of a decade, but it feels soulless. In my opinion, Polyphony Digital need to be a little bolder with GT7, quality over quantity perhaps, but maybe not so obsessive to the point where all we get is GT6 HD+, or 12 more Nissan Skylines that are micrometre-accurate.
Or 1200 Honda Jazz variants that have been pulled from GT2.
 
I don't think they'll bother with livery stuff. Sound and AI will hopefully be developed.

I disagree with the game being soulless, going between GT and DC I can understand complaints about DC lacking soul but GT is full of it.
 

Uhyve

Member
- No form of livery editor / creator
- Lack of significant damage modelling, visual and performance-based
These are the biggest for me. Plus I never thought that the tracks looked that hot in GT6, they seemed clean and accurate but lacking detail.

I don't know why but I am kind of pessimistic about GT7, I feel like there needs to be a fairly huge jump (especially with Project Cars stepping into the ring) and I'm not sure that Polyphony is capable of that.
 

EGOMON

Member
There is no way PD going through all the classic cars away it's like heritage to them and I agree.
GT is the only game were you can drive cars from 2 different centuries not to mention the variety yes the do have 30 skyline and another 30 mx5 but still you got all kind of different cars.
I remember Kaz once said that he want GT to be like virtual museum for cars.

Other problem I agree with GT is the sound and Kaz addressed that in his blog not to mention of the recent employment of a lead sound engineer.
 

Jibbed

Member
These are the biggest for me. Plus I never thought that the tracks looked that hot in GT6, they seemed clean and accurate but lacking detail.

I don't know why but I am kind of pessimistic about GT7, I feel like there needs to be a fairly huge jump (especially with Project Cars stepping into the ring) and I'm not sure that Polyphony is capable of that.

I hear you. pCARS is by no means a perfect game, but there's a richness to the sound design and environmental modelling which nothing comes close to at the moment.
 
never gave a shit about livery. it seriously is the most overrated "feature" of a racing game.


need to step their game up?

which games such as Forza are excelling with are really starting to make Gran Turismo seem like a relic of a generation long passed.

you mean the racer which, until this day, still does not have dynamic time of day, and does not have weather?


tickle us more, please.
 
There is no way PD going through all the classic cars away it's like heritage to them and I agree.
GT is the only game were you can drive cars from 2 different centuries not to mention the variety yes the do have 30 skyline and another 30 mx5 but still you got all kind of different cars.
I remember Kaz once said that he want GT to be like virtual museum for cars.

Other problem I agree with GT is the sound and Kaz addressed that in his blog not to mention of the recent employment of a lead sound engineer.

A car from 1999 and a car from 2001 would also be from two different centuries, just FYI. A shitload of games have pre-2000 cars.
 

ZoddGutts

Member
Lost interest in the series even though I loved it since GT1. It feels sterile now, not sure if that's the right word but something to that. The're way behind on the audio and A.I. department (too robotic), improving those two aspects would make me interested in the series again. Also good car damage modeling.
 

lem0n

Member
Just make the sounds better (working on that, seems like) and make the exterior view better. I just want to have a view that isn't a mile away and static to the car, I like the view to stay somewhat stable as the car turns, not the camera turning with the car, if that makes sense. Oh, and make it so not every car has a fully-build full sequential transmission and shifts like an F1 car.

I'd be happy if they just fixed those 3 problems.
 

maxte

Member
I completely agree. Its sad that it has taken the development time of two entries (gt 5 and 6) plus one year to finally add an online quick match option. On top of that it hardly works, but when it does its really fun.

I honestly don't beleive they can really change up the series with 7.
 

Shrennin

Didn't get the memo regarding the 14th Amendment
Not speaking purely on the quality of either series, and speaking as someone who is not a huge racing fan either way, this is more from the point of an outsider looking in -- Polyphony seems to be having the issue of extremely slow releases for Gran Turismo while Turn 10 is able to release Forza games in a reasonable time while also delivering on the quality expected. That seems to be the main issue of decline for GT as GT really needs to deliver with each game if they are not to get overshadowed by games like Forza that can deliver quality in a reasonable amount of time.
 

Spinoff90

Member
you mean the racer which, until this day, still does not have dynamic time of day, and does not have weather?

Was thinking this too. I prefer Forza but I am not blind to the many faults it has. So while I agree GT needs to evolve I feel the same way about Forza.
 

Oppo

Member
I would love it if someone in the know had a clue about how much asset data can be shared via Sony, w/r/t Driveclub car models and such.

I mean both Polyphony and Evolution are 1st party right? it's hard to say.
 

neojubei

Will drop pants for Sony.
Ive wonder why didnt Sony just call Drive Cub, Gran Turismo: Drive Club. just to have the gran turismo brand name on it.
 

nib95

Banned
I hear you. pCARS is by no means a perfect game, but there's a richness to the sound design and environmental modelling which nothing comes close to at the moment.

Really? I'm enjoying the game too, but environmental modelling is not something I'd necessarily commend it for, not graphically speaking anyway. It's full of poor environmental assets, low poly objects, 2D trees galore etc. Not too dissimilar to GT and Forza Motorsport, the vehicles look much better than the tracks.

The only racer I've played that has believable and somewhat natural looking environments is DriveClub. But it might be too much of an ask to expect a 60fps game to offer that level of environmental density, fidelity and richness.
 

paskowitz

Member
While not exactly an issue for most people, I would really like to see big improvements to the physics and FFB. Playing Assetto Corsa, Game Stockcar, and iRacing all make you realize just how far behind GT is in terms of physics and FFB.

While pCARS is not exactly perfect, I think GT could learn a lot from their game tweaking philosphy, which is easily the best "genera" design choice in the game (IMO worth it at the expense of those with little patience).
 
Ive wonder why didnt Sony just call Drive Cub, Gran Turismo: Drive Club. just to have the gran turismo brand name on it.

Because people would have expectations for the game and DC is an immensely different game. I can imagine how badly people would have lost their minds about the direction of the series.
 
After the disappointment of GT6, I started wondering if maybe there's nobody at Sony pushing PD to do better since they are such a highly respected studio and their games always sell well.
 

Alienous

Member
It'll have less cars and tracks and people will still buy it because it will be Gran Turismo VR.

I anticipate if they go that route that will afford them the opportunity to reinvent the franchise.
 
There is a giant checklist of things that need to be overhauled with Gran Turismo right now but I am still sceptical of PD will ever actually make the necessary changes.

They live in their own little bubble. GT6 fixed some things from GT5 for a lot of things both big and small didnt get touched.


Super duper curious what GT7 is.


My ideal changes are.

Revamped Single Player mode. More events and more replayability and variate of race classes.

Complete control overhaul for DS4. Right stick to control the camera for god sake!

Ditch the PS2 standard cars. The updated standards in GT6 seem ok but if its just a port up from GT4 or GTpsp it shouldnt be in GT7.

Ditch the PS2 tracks. Same as before. If its a port of a PS2 track it needs to be cut and redone to modern standards. Leguna Seca and Trail Mountain look terrible.

Complete Audio overhaul. Fix the cars (duh) and then do stuff to make races feel more alive. Crowd noises. Pit crew sounds. etc..

Also better gameplay camera angles since they are a mess.
 

Chabbles

Member
Gran Turismo 4 was the pinnacle of the series, after that it became a series of disappointments.

Says you. GT5 prologue was damn near on the level forward that ProjectCars delivered on, imo (for console sims) at the time. And GT5 was a brilliant game.
 

Salty Hippo

Member
never gave a shit about livery. it seriously is the most overrated "feature" of a racing game.


need to step their game up?



you mean the racer which, until this day, still does not have dynamic time of day, and does not have weather?


tickle us more, please.

Good job ignoring the countless things Forza has been doing better since 2009.
 
Hopefully they remember to build a satisfyingly structured video game around the driving this time. 5 was the last one I played and it was just soul-crushingly boring after a little while. If the overall presentation wasn't so violently bland at least it'd be easier to stick with.
 

ShamePain

Banned
I blame the shitty ps3 architecture. If they don't bring it with GT7, then I'll finally leave the franchise behind. The don't really need to copy Forza/PCars, but bring a polished/consistent release, drop the ps2 cars/tracks, redo the sounds, innovate in both career/multiplayer and we're good to go.
 
You know, in the PS1 days, even PS2 days it was excusable to not have collisions and whatnot, but I've stopped buying GT after the 4th one because i'm getting really sick of controlling a bumper car. I know this has been discussed a lot and some won't agree with me but come on, it's a simulation... Why can't they have that right aswell.. And if the excuse is that the manufacturer won't let them, well just sont show is visually but make the car at least undrivable when someone drives at 200mph in your face. Sorry personal rant
 
It's clear that they're listening to people now. They've hired a former Forza audio lead to help with the sounds and they hired Evolution's UI designer to help with the UI. There's probably other people that we're just unaware of as well. They're also listening in terms of tracks. Mid-Field Raceway has been brought back and this week Kaz confirmed that they've collected data for Pikes Peak, which hasn't been in the series since GT2. So they seem more aware of some of the complaints with the series than some think they are.
 

ghibli99

Member
Agree with the statement that things just haven't been the same since GT4. That PS2 era just blew my mind, as did the first GT on PS1 back in the day. Maybe it was the introduction of patches and title updates during the 360/PS3 generation that allowed companies to slip into that "we'll fix/improve it over time" mentality that we rarely ever had to deal with on consoles prior. Some of that updates were significant, but there's just something that feels a little dirty about it, wondering if the game you're buying today represents what it will ultimately be over time.
 
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